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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:19 am 
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SilverstoneRegular wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
Piket87 wrote:
SilverstoneRegular wrote:
This is a serious question.. No trolling I just want to know why they proper hate him!

He's been around a long time and paid his way in the game (never funded by a Red Bull academy or taken on by a major team at a young age and funded through lower formulas)

So why can they hate him so much? When mclaren took him on he was the reigning WDC and they were never going to ask him to play second fiddle and not even Lewis wanted him to so why do Lewis's fans want JB to bend over and accept the Number 2 role?


Because Button beat him last year and Hamilton fans think Lewis is the second coming, the greatest man that ever lived, the successor to Senna.

So you are saying that every single Hamilton fan thinks that? People like you are as much a part of the problem as the minority of Hamilton fans who hate Button. Most Hamilton fans were cheering just as loud as anybody else when Button won his WDC.


I don't think it's the majority of Lewis fans, just the majority on here. If its true they cheered Jenson on its a shame they are not more vocal on here but maybe te cheering stopped when he joined McLaren

You really don't see it do you? You don't see that there are just as many Button fans who despise Hamilton and take every opportunity to have a go at him. I repeat, every single driver has his fair share of fans who are not capable of rational thought when it comes to other drivers. You exhibit such tendencies yourself at times. We all do, some take it to extremes but they are not just reserved for Hamilton. Until we all realise that all drivers have these types of fans and not try and pigeon hole them to belonging to one particular driver the situation will not improve. It will stay the self feeding frenzy that it has become and threads like this will keep the supply of food topped up.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:27 am 
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PzR Slim wrote:
SilverstoneRegular wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
Piket87 wrote:
SilverstoneRegular wrote:
This is a serious question.. No trolling I just want to know why they proper hate him!

He's been around a long time and paid his way in the game (never funded by a Red Bull academy or taken on by a major team at a young age and funded through lower formulas)

So why can they hate him so much? When mclaren took him on he was the reigning WDC and they were never going to ask him to play second fiddle and not even Lewis wanted him to so why do Lewis's fans want JB to bend over and accept the Number 2 role?


Because Button beat him last year and Hamilton fans think Lewis is the second coming, the greatest man that ever lived, the successor to Senna.

So you are saying that every single Hamilton fan thinks that? People like you are as much a part of the problem as the minority of Hamilton fans who hate Button. Most Hamilton fans were cheering just as loud as anybody else when Button won his WDC.


I don't think it's the majority of Lewis fans, just the majority on here. If its true they cheered Jenson on its a shame they are not more vocal on here but maybe te cheering stopped when he joined McLaren

You really don't see it do you? You don't see that there are just as many Button fans who despise Hamilton and take every opportunity to have a go at him. I repeat, every single driver has his fair share of fans who are not capable of rational thought when it comes to other drivers. You exhibit such tendencies yourself at times. We all do, some take it to extremes but they are not just reserved for Hamilton. Until we all realise that all drivers have these types of fans and not try and pigeon hole them to belonging to one particular driver the situation will not improve. It will stay the self feeding frenzy that it has become and threads like this will keep the supply of food topped up.

:thumbup:

Plus, it's getting old now. This is probably the sixth Jenson vs Lewis thread in the past two weeks.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:39 am 
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I dint get why people are calling this a Lewis V Jenson thread, I'm not talking about the drivers and how they compare but asking why some section of the Lewis fans hate JB

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:46 am 
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SilverstoneRegular wrote:
I dint get why people are calling this a Lewis V Jenson thread, I'm not talking about the drivers and how they compare but asking why some section of the Lewis fans hate JB

You put Hamilton and Button in the thread title, and felt the need to state in the OP that it wasn't a trolling thread, which speaks volumes. Surely you had some idea how it might turn out?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:48 am 
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I do think it comes with the job. i dont think all webber fans are fond of vettel & vice versa- same applies to massa and alonso.
Plus lewis' signing to merc and the media doing its best to create drama btn the two drivers hasnt helped the situation.
I like both drivers and am sensible enough to see thru all the media BS.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:51 am 
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PzR Slim wrote:
SilverstoneRegular wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
Piket87 wrote:
SilverstoneRegular wrote:
This is a serious question.. No trolling I just want to know why they proper hate him!

He's been around a long time and paid his way in the game (never funded by a Red Bull academy or taken on by a major team at a young age and funded through lower formulas)

So why can they hate him so much? When mclaren took him on he was the reigning WDC and they were never going to ask him to play second fiddle and not even Lewis wanted him to so why do Lewis's fans want JB to bend over and accept the Number 2 role?


Because Button beat him last year and Hamilton fans think Lewis is the second coming, the greatest man that ever lived, the successor to Senna.

So you are saying that every single Hamilton fan thinks that? People like you are as much a part of the problem as the minority of Hamilton fans who hate Button. Most Hamilton fans were cheering just as loud as anybody else when Button won his WDC.


I don't think it's the majority of Lewis fans, just the majority on here. If its true they cheered Jenson on its a shame they are not more vocal on here but maybe te cheering stopped when he joined McLaren

You really don't see it do you? You don't see that there are just as many Button fans who despise Hamilton and take every opportunity to have a go at him. I repeat, every single driver has his fair share of fans who are not capable of rational thought when it comes to other drivers. You exhibit such tendencies yourself at times. We all do, some take it to extremes but they are not just reserved for Hamilton. Until we all realise that all drivers have these types of fans and not try and pigeon hole them to belonging to one particular driver the situation will not improve. It will stay the self feeding frenzy that it has become and threads like this will keep the supply of food topped up.



:thumbup: :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:52 am 
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PzR Slim wrote:
SilverstoneRegular wrote:
I dint get why people are calling this a Lewis V Jenson thread, I'm not talking about the drivers and how they compare but asking why some section of the Lewis fans hate JB

You put Hamilton and Button in the thread title, and felt the need to state in the OP that it wasn't a trolling thread, which speaks volumes. Surely you had some idea how it might turn out?



I didn't account for you

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:11 am 
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SilverstoneRegular wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
SilverstoneRegular wrote:
I dint get why people are calling this a Lewis V Jenson thread, I'm not talking about the drivers and how they compare but asking why some section of the Lewis fans hate JB

You put Hamilton and Button in the thread title, and felt the need to state in the OP that it wasn't a trolling thread, which speaks volumes. Surely you had some idea how it might turn out?



I didn't account for you

Wow, now you really are blinded. I haven't turned this into a JB v LH thread. If you actually read what I posted I said that every driver in the sport has these sorts of fans and that to single out one drivers fans does nothing but promote the very thing you are taking issue with. You're a huge part of the problem and are completely oblivious to the fact.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:21 am 
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I've been a fan of Jenson since his rookie season at Williams having met him at my local BMW dealership at the time. I also have a great deal of respect for Lewis but I have never quite warmed to him as much as I have Jenson.

The only time I find myself wading into any Jenson vs Lewis threads is simply to defend Jenson from some unwarranted criticisms.

Literally the only thing I don't like about Lewis (which isn't even his fault anyway) is a certain contingent of his fans who attack anyone who disagrees with their opinions and this includes the more level headed fans of the said driver.

From my observations there are two types of Lewis fans, the ones who recognise an extremely talented human being behind a steering wheel and those who would actually be offended by the aforementioned fans for daring to believe that he's even a mere human being.

As you can imagine I have no problem with one of these types of fans, I can't say the same for both though.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:28 am 
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Dam_Noir wrote:
The only time I find myself wading into any Jenson vs Lewis threads is simply to defend Jenson from some unwarranted criticisms.

Literally the only thing I don't like about Lewis (which isn't even his fault anyway) is a certain contingent of his fans who attack anyone who disagrees with their opinions and this includes the more level headed fans of the said driver.

Isn't there a very fine line between the above?

What you think as unwarranted criticism, some perfectly reasonable person might find warranted. In the eyes of that person, rather than defending your man from unwarranted criticism, you become someone who attacks because you disagree with their opinion.

So you end up with two perfectly reasonable people with good intention labelling the other as a hater over nothing more than failing to see it from one anothers perspective.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:03 pm 
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PzR Slim wrote:
SilverstoneRegular wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
SilverstoneRegular wrote:
I dint get why people are calling this a Lewis V Jenson thread, I'm not talking about the drivers and how they compare but asking why some section of the Lewis fans hate JB

You put Hamilton and Button in the thread title, and felt the need to state in the OP that it wasn't a trolling thread, which speaks volumes. Surely you had some idea how it might turn out?



I didn't account for you

Wow, now you really are blinded. I haven't turned this into a JB v LH thread. If you actually read what I posted I said that every driver in the sport has these sorts of fans and that to single out one drivers fans does nothing but promote the very thing you are taking issue with. You're a huge part of the problem and are completely oblivious to the fact.

Don't think that's right. The issue seems to be far more prevalent among a certain section of Hamilton fans, to the extent that virtually every time he is mentioned it takes a nanosecond before someone dives in with a Button attack. As mentioned before you don't get this consistent level of targeted abuse from fans of other drivers. That's presumably why this thread was opened in the first place.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:12 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
SilverstoneRegular wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
SilverstoneRegular wrote:
I dint get why people are calling this a Lewis V Jenson thread, I'm not talking about the drivers and how they compare but asking why some section of the Lewis fans hate JB

You put Hamilton and Button in the thread title, and felt the need to state in the OP that it wasn't a trolling thread, which speaks volumes. Surely you had some idea how it might turn out?



I didn't account for you

Wow, now you really are blinded. I haven't turned this into a JB v LH thread. If you actually read what I posted I said that every driver in the sport has these sorts of fans and that to single out one drivers fans does nothing but promote the very thing you are taking issue with. You're a huge part of the problem and are completely oblivious to the fact.

Don't think that's right. The issue seems to be far more prevalent among a certain section of Hamilton fans, to the extent that virtually every time he is mentioned it takes a nanosecond before someone dives in with a Button attack. As mentioned before you don't get this consistent level of targeted abuse from fans of other drivers. That's presumably why this thread was opened in the first place.

Have you actually seen how much abuse Hamilton gets or Vettel or Alonso? Really, open your eyes.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:19 pm 
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Some of you guys clearly have real short memories.
Remember Canada 2011? Where JB intentionally (look at the footage before commenting)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgXlcDqEgyk

Took out his teammate only before screaming on his teamradio "What is HE doing"
Lewis was miles faster than him and he didn't want too get beat so he came up with the excuse he couldn't see him. He already knew he was going too get overtaken and he took Lewis out.
He did win it though. albeit a LOT of luck with the saftycars.

Since that day i have a hard time liking the guy as i know he's a slittering snake that does an amazing job at PR and portraying the perfect son in-law.

I think this together with every Withmarsh interview when asked specificly about Lewis he always finds a way too bring up Jb first.

You guys should take a look at the Anthony Davidson documentary. its about Ant and Lewis entering f1 in the same year, one with a top team and the other is a lesser (Superaguri) But the funny thing
is our big friend Jb is constantly taking shots at Lewis having it easy etc etc.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:21 pm 
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Emerson.F wrote:
Some of you guys clearly have real short memories.
Remember Canada 2011? Where JB intentionally (look at the footage before commenting)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgXlcDqEgyk

Took out his teammate only before screaming on his teamradio "What is HE doing"
Lewis was miles faster than him and he didn't want too get beat so he came up with the excuse he couldn't see him. He already knew he was going too get overtaken and he took Lewis out.
He did win it though. albeit a LOT of luck with the saftycars.

Since that day i have a hard time liking the guy as i know he's a slittering snake that does an amazing job at PR and portraying the perfect son in-law.

I think this together with every Withmarsh interview when asked specificly about Lewis he always finds a way too bring up Jb first.

You guys should take a look at the Anthony Davidson documentary. its about Ant and Lewis entering f1 in the same year, one with a top team and the other is a lesser (Superaguri) But the funny thing
is our big friend Jb is constantly taking shots at Lewis having it easy etc etc.

OH. MY. GOD. *shakes head* there is no hope.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:21 pm 
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PzR Slim wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Have you actually seen how much abuse Hamilton gets or Vettel or Alonso? Really, open your eyes.

you're missing the point entirely. It's not about how much amounts of abuse each driver gets, it's about why a certain section of Hamilton fans seem to have it in for Button. Every time Alonso is the subject you don't get volumes of anti Massa posts, but pretty much every Hamilton thread rapidly descends into Button bashing. It's usually a question of when, not if.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:22 pm 
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Emerson.F wrote:
Some of you guys clearly have real short memories.
Remember Canada 2011? Where JB intentionally (look at the footage before commenting)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgXlcDqEgyk

Took out his teammate only before screaming on his teamradio "What is HE doing"
Lewis was miles faster than him and he didn't want too get beat so he came up with the excuse he couldn't see him. He already knew he was going too get overtaken and he took Lewis out.
He did win it though. albeit a LOT of luck with the saftycars.

Since that day i have a hard time liking the guy as i know he's a slittering snake that does an amazing job at PR and portraying the perfect son in-law.

I think this together with every Withmarsh interview when asked specificly about Lewis he always finds a way too bring up Jb first.

You guys should take a look at the Anthony Davidson documentary. its about Ant and Lewis entering f1 in the same year, one with a top team and the other is a lesser (Superaguri) But the funny thing
is our big friend Jb is constantly taking shots at Lewis having it easy etc etc.

thank you for demonstrating my point


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:29 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Have you actually seen how much abuse Hamilton gets or Vettel or Alonso? Really, open your eyes.

you're missing the point entirely. It's not about how much amounts of abuse each driver gets, it's about why a certain section of Hamilton fans seem to have it in for Button. Every time Alonso is the subject you don't get volumes of anti Massa posts, but pretty much every Hamilton thread rapidly descends into Button bashing. It's usually a question of when, not if.

Why do a certain section of Button fans have it in for Hamilton. Why do a certain set of Webber/Hamilton/Button/Alonso fans have it in for Vettel? Why do a certain set of Webber/Hamilton/Button/Vettel fans have it in for Alonso?

I'm not missing any point. You and some others are choosing to ignore the fact that it happens to all drivers.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:31 pm 
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Canada 2011 is where it all started.

This thread needs some love :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:36 pm 
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PzR Slim wrote:
Zoue wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Have you actually seen how much abuse Hamilton gets or Vettel or Alonso? Really, open your eyes.

you're missing the point entirely. It's not about how much amounts of abuse each driver gets, it's about why a certain section of Hamilton fans seem to have it in for Button. Every time Alonso is the subject you don't get volumes of anti Massa posts, but pretty much every Hamilton thread rapidly descends into Button bashing. It's usually a question of when, not if.

Why do a certain section of Button fans have it in for Hamilton. Why do a certain set of Webber/Hamilton/Button/Alonso fans have it in for Vettel? Why do a certain set of Webber/Hamilton/Button/Vettel fans have it in for Alonso?

I'm not missing any point. You and some others are choosing to ignore the fact that it happens to all drivers.

Sigh. You have a look at the OP. It's about Button and Lewis, nobody else. Have a look at just about any Lewis thread and count the number of posts before Button gets dragged in. I can pretty much guarantee you won't get into double figures. That level of animosity doesn't appear with any other driver. Yes, you will get some comparisons made, but it won't be guaranteed. That's the point


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:40 pm 
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PzR Slim wrote:
Dam_Noir wrote:
The only time I find myself wading into any Jenson vs Lewis threads is simply to defend Jenson from some unwarranted criticisms.

Literally the only thing I don't like about Lewis (which isn't even his fault anyway) is a certain contingent of his fans who attack anyone who disagrees with their opinions and this includes the more level headed fans of the said driver.

Isn't there a very fine line between the above?

What you think as unwarranted criticism, some perfectly reasonable person might find warranted. In the eyes of that person, rather than defending your man from unwarranted criticism, you become someone who attacks because you disagree with their opinion.

So you end up with two perfectly reasonable people with good intention labelling the other as a hater over nothing more than failing to see it from one anothers perspective.


Find the posts where i've attacked someone because I disagree with them? I merely give evidence to the contrary.

Secondly if I was to 'attack' someone as you put it in the same way they do towards Jenson then surely that would involve me bashing Lewis in retaliation? When I make a counter argument in response to some good old JB bashing I never involve Lewis as he's got nothing to do with it.

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Last edited by Dam_Noir on Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:40 pm 
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PzR Slim wrote:
I'm not missing any point. You and some others are choosing to ignore the fact that it happens to all drivers.


There are of course haters of every driver, every driver has his biased and unbiased fans.

But how many Lewis vs Jenson threads have you been seeing lately in comparison to others?

In these threads how many turn into Jenson is no match for Lewis he just lucked into his WDC, is slow, mediocre, snake, evil, screwed Lewis out of the team?

just look at Emerson.F post 4 posts before yours.

In most of these Lewis vs Jenson threads you will find the Lewis fans arguing that Button is crap and Lewis is better while you will find the Jenson fans trying to prove they are on equal merits and there is no need to say one is better.

As i said there are always people who hate certain drivers, but the Lewis fans bashing Jenson has been too much on this forum, there is weekly around 2-5 threads created on that topic and all end the same way, heck even other topics end up with the same argument. i too think that there is too many of Lewis' fans discrediting Button.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:44 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
Zoue wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Have you actually seen how much abuse Hamilton gets or Vettel or Alonso? Really, open your eyes.

you're missing the point entirely. It's not about how much amounts of abuse each driver gets, it's about why a certain section of Hamilton fans seem to have it in for Button. Every time Alonso is the subject you don't get volumes of anti Massa posts, but pretty much every Hamilton thread rapidly descends into Button bashing. It's usually a question of when, not if.

Why do a certain section of Button fans have it in for Hamilton. Why do a certain set of Webber/Hamilton/Button/Alonso fans have it in for Vettel? Why do a certain set of Webber/Hamilton/Button/Vettel fans have it in for Alonso?

I'm not missing any point. You and some others are choosing to ignore the fact that it happens to all drivers.

Sigh. You have a look at the OP. It's about Button and Lewis, nobody else. Have a look at just about any Lewis thread and count the number of posts before Button gets dragged in. I can pretty much guarantee you won't get into double figures. That level of animosity doesn't appear with any other driver. Yes, you will get some comparisons made, but it won't be guaranteed. That's the point

I've just checked some of the Hamilton threads on the front page and, unsurprisingly, it is Buttons own fans who bring Button into the conversation a lot of the time. Like I keep saying, everybody needs to take their share of the blame for the ways things are on this forum.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:48 pm 
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PzR Slim wrote:
I've just checked some of the Hamilton threads on the front page and, unsurprisingly, it is Buttons own fans who bring Button into the conversation a lot of the time. Like I keep saying, everybody needs to take their share of the blame for the ways things are on this forum.

Sheesh, PzR, it's not about blame, it's about the level of animosity and the personal attacks. Why is this so hard to understand?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:52 pm 
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Dam_Noir wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
Dam_Noir wrote:
The only time I find myself wading into any Jenson vs Lewis threads is simply to defend Jenson from some unwarranted criticisms.

Literally the only thing I don't like about Lewis (which isn't even his fault anyway) is a certain contingent of his fans who attack anyone who disagrees with their opinions and this includes the more level headed fans of the said driver.

Isn't there a very fine line between the above?

What you think as unwarranted criticism, some perfectly reasonable person might find warranted. In the eyes of that person, rather than defending your man from unwarranted criticism, you become someone who attacks because you disagree with their opinion.

So you end up with two perfectly reasonable people with good intention labelling the other as a hater over nothing more than failing to see it from one anothers perspective.


Find the posts where i've attacked someone because I disagree with them? I merely give evidence to the contrary.

Secondly if I was to 'attack' someone as you put it in the same way they do towards Jenson then surely that would involve me bashing Lewis in retaliation? When I make a counter argument in response to some good old JB bashing I never involve Lewis as he's got nothing to do with it.

Read again what I wrote. What you see as defending, others might see as attacking.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:01 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
I've just checked some of the Hamilton threads on the front page and, unsurprisingly, it is Buttons own fans who bring Button into the conversation a lot of the time. Like I keep saying, everybody needs to take their share of the blame for the ways things are on this forum.

Sheesh, PzR, it's not about blame, it's about the level of animosity and the personal attacks. Why is this so hard to understand?

If it's not about blame why the need to make a thread blaming Hamilton fans? If you look at the Hamilton threads on the front page. The OP is in there very early on bringing Button into the debate. That makes a complete mockery of this very thread. And I will keep saying that every driver has such fans, so I don't see the need to single one out. Surely that is the very definition of laying blame? And for the record just so you understand. I am in no way defending the Hamilton fans that are devoid of realistic thinking, as can be seen from my reply to Emerson, however I find it unfair that the fans of other drivers who behave in the exact same way seem to be being ignored by many in this thread.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:05 pm 
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PzR Slim wrote:
Dam_Noir wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
Dam_Noir wrote:
The only time I find myself wading into any Jenson vs Lewis threads is simply to defend Jenson from some unwarranted criticisms.

Literally the only thing I don't like about Lewis (which isn't even his fault anyway) is a certain contingent of his fans who attack anyone who disagrees with their opinions and this includes the more level headed fans of the said driver.

Isn't there a very fine line between the above?

What you think as unwarranted criticism, some perfectly reasonable person might find warranted. In the eyes of that person, rather than defending your man from unwarranted criticism, you become someone who attacks because you disagree with their opinion.

So you end up with two perfectly reasonable people with good intention labelling the other as a hater over nothing more than failing to see it from one anothers perspective.


Find the posts where i've attacked someone because I disagree with them? I merely give evidence to the contrary.

Secondly if I was to 'attack' someone as you put it in the same way they do towards Jenson then surely that would involve me bashing Lewis in retaliation? When I make a counter argument in response to some good old JB bashing I never involve Lewis as he's got nothing to do with it.

Read again what I wrote. What you see as defending, others might see as attacking.


Actually you should read what I wrote again... if I was to attack a fan of Lewis in the same way they do towards Jenson then surely that would involve me bashing Lewis in retaliation?

Maybe you should check the definitions of attack and defend and then it becomes pretty obvious which best describes my counter arguments in regards to the constant onslaught Jenson recieves.

Attack
at·tack [uh-tak]
verb (used with object)
1. to set upon in a forceful, violent, hostile, or aggressive way, with or without a weapon; begin fighting with: He attacked him with his bare hands.
2. to begin hostilities against; start an offensive against: to attack the enemy.
3. to blame or abuse violently or bitterly.

Defend
de·fend [dih-fend]
verb (used with object)
1. to ward off attack from; guard against assault or injury (usually followed by from or against ): The sentry defended the gate against sudden attack.
2. to maintain by argument, evidence, etc.; uphold: She defended her claim successfully.
3. to contest (a legal charge, claim, etc.).

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:17 pm 
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PzR Slim wrote:
Zoue wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
I've just checked some of the Hamilton threads on the front page and, unsurprisingly, it is Buttons own fans who bring Button into the conversation a lot of the time. Like I keep saying, everybody needs to take their share of the blame for the ways things are on this forum.

Sheesh, PzR, it's not about blame, it's about the level of animosity and the personal attacks. Why is this so hard to understand?

If it's not about blame why the need to make a thread blaming Hamilton fans? If you look at the Hamilton threads on the front page. The OP is in there very early on bringing Button into the debate. That makes a complete mockery of this very thread. And I will keep saying that every driver has such fans, so I don't see the need to single one out. Surely that is the very definition of laying blame? And for the record just so you understand. I am in no way defending the Hamilton fans that are devoid of realistic thinking, as can be seen from my reply to Emerson, however I find it unfair that the fans of other drivers who behave in the exact same way seem to be being ignored by many in this thread.

the OP is bringing Button into the debate because his whole thread was about Hamilton fans hating Button. It's in the title, for crying out loud. I don't see how one can possibly discuss that without mentioning one or both drivers.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:18 pm 
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Dam_Noir wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
Dam_Noir wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
Dam_Noir wrote:
The only time I find myself wading into any Jenson vs Lewis threads is simply to defend Jenson from some unwarranted criticisms.

Literally the only thing I don't like about Lewis (which isn't even his fault anyway) is a certain contingent of his fans who attack anyone who disagrees with their opinions and this includes the more level headed fans of the said driver.

Isn't there a very fine line between the above?

What you think as unwarranted criticism, some perfectly reasonable person might find warranted. In the eyes of that person, rather than defending your man from unwarranted criticism, you become someone who attacks because you disagree with their opinion.

So you end up with two perfectly reasonable people with good intention labelling the other as a hater over nothing more than failing to see it from one anothers perspective.


Find the posts where i've attacked someone because I disagree with them? I merely give evidence to the contrary.

Secondly if I was to 'attack' someone as you put it in the same way they do towards Jenson then surely that would involve me bashing Lewis in retaliation? When I make a counter argument in response to some good old JB bashing I never involve Lewis as he's got nothing to do with it.

Read again what I wrote. What you see as defending, others might see as attacking.


Actually you should read what I wrote again... if I was to attack a fan of Lewis in the same way they do towards Jenson then surely that would involve me bashing Lewis in retaliation?

Maybe you should check the definitions of attack and defend and then it becomes pretty obvious which best describes my counter arguments in regards to the constant onslaught Jenson recieves.

Attack
at·tack [uh-tak]
verb (used with object)
1. to set upon in a forceful, violent, hostile, or aggressive way, with or without a weapon; begin fighting with: He attacked him with his bare hands.
2. to begin hostilities against; start an offensive against: to attack the enemy.
3. to blame or abuse violently or bitterly.

Defend
de·fend [dih-fend]
verb (used with object)
1. to ward off attack from; guard against assault or injury (usually followed by from or against ): The sentry defended the gate against sudden attack.
2. to maintain by argument, evidence, etc.; uphold: She defended her claim successfully.
3. to contest (a legal charge, claim, etc.).

I give up. This is the very reason why there is such conflict around here. No one is prepared to see it from the others point of view. What you see as your defence of Button against unwarranted criticism, somebody else may see as an attack against their warranted criticism and hence their opinion. And what we end up with is 'all Hamilton fans are this' or 'all Button fans are that', when the reality is that most of either drivers fans, or any drivers fans for that matter, are reasonable people who would probably get on really well face to face in the pub over a few pints. There are of course the idiots, from all sets of fans, who are beyond help. And the best way to deal with them is to report and ignore.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:21 pm 
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PzR Slim wrote:
SilverstoneRegular wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
Piket87 wrote:
SilverstoneRegular wrote:
This is a serious question.. No trolling I just want to know why they proper hate him!

He's been around a long time and paid his way in the game (never funded by a Red Bull academy or taken on by a major team at a young age and funded through lower formulas)

So why can they hate him so much? When mclaren took him on he was the reigning WDC and they were never going to ask him to play second fiddle and not even Lewis wanted him to so why do Lewis's fans want JB to bend over and accept the Number 2 role?


Because Button beat him last year and Hamilton fans think Lewis is the second coming, the greatest man that ever lived, the successor to Senna.

So you are saying that every single Hamilton fan thinks that? People like you are as much a part of the problem as the minority of Hamilton fans who hate Button. Most Hamilton fans were cheering just as loud as anybody else when Button won his WDC.


I don't think it's the majority of Lewis fans, just the majority on here. If its true they cheered Jenson on its a shame they are not more vocal on here but maybe te cheering stopped when he joined McLaren

You really don't see it do you? You don't see that there are just as many Button fans who despise Hamilton and take every opportunity to have a go at him. I repeat, every single driver has his fair share of fans who are not capable of rational thought when it comes to other drivers. You exhibit such tendencies yourself at times. We all do, some take it to extremes but they are not just reserved for Hamilton. Until we all realise that all drivers have these types of fans and not try and pigeon hole them to belonging to one particular driver the situation will not improve. It will stay the self feeding frenzy that it has become and threads like this will keep the supply of food topped up.

nothing more to add to this thread.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:23 pm 
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Emerson.F wrote:
Some of you guys clearly have real short memories.
Remember Canada 2011? Where JB intentionally (look at the footage before commenting)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgXlcDqEgyk

Took out his teammate only before screaming on his teamradio "What is HE doing"
Lewis was miles faster than him and he didn't want too get beat so he came up with the excuse he couldn't see him. He already knew he was going too get overtaken and he took Lewis out.
He did win it though. albeit a LOT of luck with the saftycars.

Since that day i have a hard time liking the guy as i know he's a slittering snake that does an amazing job at PR and portraying the perfect son in-law.

I think this together with every Withmarsh interview when asked specificly about Lewis he always finds a way too bring up Jb first.

You guys should take a look at the Anthony Davidson documentary. its about Ant and Lewis entering f1 in the same year, one with a top team and the other is a lesser (Superaguri) But the funny thing
is our big friend Jb is constantly taking shots at Lewis having it easy etc etc.


This is the reason some of the Hamilton fans nerk me. Canada 2011 and the blame game. It always comes up.

Despite Lewis himself saying he couldn't see out of the same mirrors in the dry they don't believe JB couldn't see when it came to driving in the wet. I remember Lewis even doing a segment on the beeb explaining why the mirrors on the McLaren were useless. But sure JB is supposed to see out them all the same.

He intentionally done it , yet from every angle you can see JB never deviates from the racing line and follows the same line as Rosberg in front until the moment of contact.

I remember one claiming Lewis never left the racing line that JB went wide yet of all you could clearly see JB being on the dry line and Lewis on the wet.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:23 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
Zoue wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
I've just checked some of the Hamilton threads on the front page and, unsurprisingly, it is Buttons own fans who bring Button into the conversation a lot of the time. Like I keep saying, everybody needs to take their share of the blame for the ways things are on this forum.

Sheesh, PzR, it's not about blame, it's about the level of animosity and the personal attacks. Why is this so hard to understand?

If it's not about blame why the need to make a thread blaming Hamilton fans? If you look at the Hamilton threads on the front page. The OP is in there very early on bringing Button into the debate. That makes a complete mockery of this very thread. And I will keep saying that every driver has such fans, so I don't see the need to single one out. Surely that is the very definition of laying blame? And for the record just so you understand. I am in no way defending the Hamilton fans that are devoid of realistic thinking, as can be seen from my reply to Emerson, however I find it unfair that the fans of other drivers who behave in the exact same way seem to be being ignored by many in this thread.

the OP is bringing Button into the debate because his whole thread was about Hamilton fans hating Button. It's in the title, for crying out loud. I don't see how one can possibly discuss that without mentioning one or both drivers.

I was talking about the OP bringing Button into the debate in the Hamilton threads you told me to look at. As for this thread. Why the need to single out the fans of two drivers. Seeing as some fans of all the drivers have the tendency to do what is being discussed, why not broaden it to fans of all drivers? You tell me what your input would have been into this thread if the title had been 'Why do so many Button fans hate Lewis Hamilton?'

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:26 pm 
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PzR Slim wrote:
I give up. This is the very reason why there is such conflict around here. No one is prepared to see it from the others point of view. What you see as your defence of Button against unwarranted criticism, somebody else may see as an attack against their warranted criticism and hence their opinion. And what we end up with is 'all Hamilton fans are this' or 'all Button fans are that', when the reality is that very few of either drivers fans, or any drivers fans for that matter, are reasonable people who would probably get on really well face to face in the pub over a few pints. There are of course the idiots, from all sets of fans, who are beyond help. And the best way to deal with them is to report and ignore.

PzR, I agree with you that there are many Lewis fans who don't have this issue. It's also common for some fans to attack other drivers as the best form of defence - it goes with the territory, unfortunately. However, it cannot be denied that some Hamilton fans in particular seem to have a bee in their bonnet about Jenson as if he is somehow personally responsible for any of Lewis' woes. You just don't see that to the same extent with other drivers and their team mates. It's that issue that the OP is drawing attention to, nothing else


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:28 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
Zoue wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Have you actually seen how much abuse Hamilton gets or Vettel or Alonso? Really, open your eyes.

you're missing the point entirely. It's not about how much amounts of abuse each driver gets, it's about why a certain section of Hamilton fans seem to have it in for Button. Every time Alonso is the subject you don't get volumes of anti Massa posts, but pretty much every Hamilton thread rapidly descends into Button bashing. It's usually a question of when, not if.

Why do a certain section of Button fans have it in for Hamilton. Why do a certain set of Webber/Hamilton/Button/Alonso fans have it in for Vettel? Why do a certain set of Webber/Hamilton/Button/Vettel fans have it in for Alonso?

I'm not missing any point. You and some others are choosing to ignore the fact that it happens to all drivers.

Sigh. You have a look at the OP. It's about Button and Lewis, nobody else. Have a look at just about any Lewis thread and count the number of posts before Button gets dragged in. I can pretty much guarantee you won't get into double figures. That level of animosity doesn't appear with any other driver. Yes, you will get some comparisons made, but it won't be guaranteed. That's the point

have a look at Button threads and see how quickly Lewis gets dragged in and starts getting slated.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:29 pm 
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PzR Slim wrote:
Zoue wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
Zoue wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
I've just checked some of the Hamilton threads on the front page and, unsurprisingly, it is Buttons own fans who bring Button into the conversation a lot of the time. Like I keep saying, everybody needs to take their share of the blame for the ways things are on this forum.

Sheesh, PzR, it's not about blame, it's about the level of animosity and the personal attacks. Why is this so hard to understand?

If it's not about blame why the need to make a thread blaming Hamilton fans? If you look at the Hamilton threads on the front page. The OP is in there very early on bringing Button into the debate. That makes a complete mockery of this very thread. And I will keep saying that every driver has such fans, so I don't see the need to single one out. Surely that is the very definition of laying blame? And for the record just so you understand. I am in no way defending the Hamilton fans that are devoid of realistic thinking, as can be seen from my reply to Emerson, however I find it unfair that the fans of other drivers who behave in the exact same way seem to be being ignored by many in this thread.

the OP is bringing Button into the debate because his whole thread was about Hamilton fans hating Button. It's in the title, for crying out loud. I don't see how one can possibly discuss that without mentioning one or both drivers.

I was talking about the OP bringing Button into the debate in the Hamilton threads you told me to look at. As for this thread. Why the need to single out the fans of two drivers. Seeing as some fans of all the drivers have the tendency to do what is being discussed, why not broaden it to fans of all drivers? You tell me what your input would have been into this thread if the title had been 'Why do so many Button fans hate Lewis Hamilton?'

thing is, I don't think they do. Often Button fans will not talk Hamilton down - they may argue that the two drivers are equal, but I don't see many stating that Lewis is the devil incarnate or not fit to tie Jenson's shoelaces. the reverse isn't often true, sadly


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:31 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
I give up. This is the very reason why there is such conflict around here. No one is prepared to see it from the others point of view. What you see as your defence of Button against unwarranted criticism, somebody else may see as an attack against their warranted criticism and hence their opinion. And what we end up with is 'all Hamilton fans are this' or 'all Button fans are that', when the reality is that very few of either drivers fans, or any drivers fans for that matter, are reasonable people who would probably get on really well face to face in the pub over a few pints. There are of course the idiots, from all sets of fans, who are beyond help. And the best way to deal with them is to report and ignore.

PzR, I agree with you that there are many Lewis fans who don't have this issue. It's also common for some fans to attack other drivers as the best form of defence - it goes with the territory, unfortunately. However, it cannot be denied that some Hamilton fans in particular seem to have a bee in their bonnet about Jenson as if he is somehow personally responsible for any of Lewis' woes. You just don't see that to the same extent with other drivers and their team mates. It's that issue that the OP is drawing attention to, nothing else

I have never said that some Hamilton fans don't have a bee in their bonnet about Hamilton. However, from where I am sitting there are some Button fans who have a bee in their bonnet about Hamilton, and some Alonso fans who have a bee in their bonnet about Vettel, etc. This phenomenon is not reserved for Hamilton fans as it seems some are suggesting.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:32 pm 
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I'm a McLaren and Hamilton fan and do not in anyway hate Button. As a matter of fact I cheered Button one when Hamilton is not doing so well.

The problem I have with Button is his constant moaning about the car setup. No grip, front locking etc etc.

Just drive the f**king car.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:32 pm 
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Dam_Noir wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
Dam_Noir wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
Dam_Noir wrote:
The only time I find myself wading into any Jenson vs Lewis threads is simply to defend Jenson from some unwarranted criticisms.

Literally the only thing I don't like about Lewis (which isn't even his fault anyway) is a certain contingent of his fans who attack anyone who disagrees with their opinions and this includes the more level headed fans of the said driver.

Isn't there a very fine line between the above?

What you think as unwarranted criticism, some perfectly reasonable person might find warranted. In the eyes of that person, rather than defending your man from unwarranted criticism, you become someone who attacks because you disagree with their opinion.

So you end up with two perfectly reasonable people with good intention labelling the other as a hater over nothing more than failing to see it from one anothers perspective.


Find the posts where i've attacked someone because I disagree with them? I merely give evidence to the contrary.

Secondly if I was to 'attack' someone as you put it in the same way they do towards Jenson then surely that would involve me bashing Lewis in retaliation? When I make a counter argument in response to some good old JB bashing I never involve Lewis as he's got nothing to do with it.

Read again what I wrote. What you see as defending, others might see as attacking.


Actually you should read what I wrote again... if I was to attack a fan of Lewis in the same way they do towards Jenson then surely that would involve me bashing Lewis in retaliation?

Maybe you should check the definitions of attack and defend and then it becomes pretty obvious which best describes my counter arguments in regards to the constant onslaught Jenson recieves.

Attack
at·tack [uh-tak]
verb (used with object)
1. to set upon in a forceful, violent, hostile, or aggressive way, with or without a weapon; begin fighting with: He attacked him with his bare hands.
2. to begin hostilities against; start an offensive against: to attack the enemy.
3. to blame or abuse violently or bitterly.

Defend
de·fend [dih-fend]
verb (used with object)
1. to ward off attack from; guard against assault or injury (usually followed by from or against ): The sentry defended the gate against sudden attack.
2. to maintain by argument, evidence, etc.; uphold: She defended her claim successfully.
3. to contest (a legal charge, claim, etc.).

did he say you in particular bash Lewis? he said both parties have the bashers and how people can disagree with that beats me.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:34 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
thing is, I don't think they do. Often Button fans will not talk Hamilton down - they may argue that the two drivers are equal, but I don't see many stating that Lewis is the devil incarnate or not fit to tie Jenson's shoelaces. the reverse isn't often true, sadly

Then I'm sorry Zoue but you are not seeing the reality of the situation.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:35 pm 
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PzR Slim wrote:
I give up. This is the very reason why there is such conflict around here. No one is prepared to see it from the others point of view. What you see as your defence of Button against unwarranted criticism, somebody else may see as an attack against their warranted criticism and hence their opinion. And what we end up with is 'all Hamilton fans are this' or 'all Button fans are that', when the reality is that very few of either drivers fans, or any drivers fans for that matter, are reasonable people who would probably get on really well face to face in the pub over a few pints. There are of course the idiots, from all sets of fans, who are beyond help. And the best way to deal with them is to report and ignore.


You must be skim reading my posts, that's why I made a point of recognising the level headed fans in my first post on this thread. The unwanted criticisms are pretty much exclusive to the fans which by your own admission are 'beyond help' yet you seem to have an issue with me defending Jenson from these very people?

I have not and never will lump all fans of a driver together so don't try and lay the blame for this conflict on my doorstep as the contingent of fans i'm refering to won't stop posting their drivel if I was to stop responding to them. However when faced with facts in response to their unwarrented criticisms they tend to atleast pipe down for a while.

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Last edited by Dam_Noir on Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:36 pm 
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I value opinions of forumers who can express a view without the need to disrespect an opposing view regardless of who they support, but too many seem incapable of expressing a view without ripping into others.

For what it’s worth I think the problem is one of maturity, balance, respect and yes education …. 8O

It’s nothing to do with Hamilton/Button, it’ll likely be different drivers next year.

Doesn’t matter who you support, a considered argument is usually respected.


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