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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:07 am 
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I think I'm OK with this. As with all their issues, it would be nice to have something that isn't subjective, but I'm not entirely sure that's possible in this sport.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:56 pm 
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The rule is mostly triggered by Grosjean, Maldonado and Perez. It seems like a good move for now.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:18 pm 
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I think it's a good idea and should help in giving fairer and more consistent punishment to serial offenders. Many people agreed with Grosjean's race ban in Monza, but I thought that it was little harsh in that he is not the only driver to have had numerous accidents this year but he was the only one to have been punished for it.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:23 pm 
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ManojHS wrote:
The rule is mostly triggered by Grosjean, Maldonado and Perez. It seems like a good move for now.


It's a great idea. I've had enough of these stupid grid penalties, partly because even Sheldon off of BBT wouldn't be able to figure out who is going to start all hail the mods where!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:41 pm 
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ManojHS wrote:
The rule is mostly triggered by Grosjean, Maldonado and Perez. It seems like a good move for now.



Perez? when has he been punished?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:56 pm 
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I actually think it should disregard fault as it will lead to accusations of favouritism.

You get a point for any car to car contact reported to the stewards (reported by teams or track officials)
$20,000 per point (perhaps need weighting to team budget for the poorer teams????)
3 pts and you miss a race
6 pts miss 2 races

This sounds harsh but it does penalise drivers who a) stick their nose up the inside even when they can't make the corner b) cut across cars they know are there because they have the racing line.

The reporting is inelegant but if the track officials are briefed to report contact that a) leaves debris on track or b) causes a spin of 180 degrees or more or c) causes a car to leave the race track then we should still have wheel to wheel racing but an incentive to keep it clean.

Teams will still be able to report wheel to wheel (or any no damage) contact but it will cost their driver a point so they would need to be very upset about it.

Reporting means that stewards will not have to watch every second to spot any incidents.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:41 am 
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I think the FIA can do what they have always done and choose if they need to revoke the license of a driver who just isn't safe.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:48 am 
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falconchris wrote:
I actually think it should disregard fault as it will lead to accusations of favouritism.

You get a point for any car to car contact reported to the stewards (reported by teams or track officials)
$20,000 per point (perhaps need weighting to team budget for the poorer teams????)
3 pts and you miss a race
6 pts miss 2 races

This sounds harsh but it does penalise drivers who a) stick their nose up the inside even when they can't make the corner b) cut across cars they know are there because they have the racing line.

The reporting is inelegant but if the track officials are briefed to report contact that a) leaves debris on track or b) causes a spin of 180 degrees or more or c) causes a car to leave the race track then we should still have wheel to wheel racing but an incentive to keep it clean.

Teams will still be able to report wheel to wheel (or any no damage) contact but it will cost their driver a point so they would need to be very upset about it.

Reporting means that stewards will not have to watch every second to spot any incidents.


Sounds like a pretty bad idea to me, although I'm not sure I totally get it. So by this rule Alonso and Hamilton would get a point for the incident caused by Grosjean at Spa right ? You want to penalize drivers who make audacious moves, fair enough. But your system also penalizes the drivers against whom the move is made. Car to car contact works both ways since you want to disregard fault.

In my opinion you can't disregard fault. Stewards must try to judge as fairly as they can. Disregarding fault seems far more unfair than the occasional screw up by the stewards. Most sports rely on stewards/umpires/referees. Even though the system doesn't yield perfect results it does tend to work very well in the long run.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:59 am 
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Sometimes I wonder if FIA officials browse this forum. Some of the things that are speculated about here that turn into fact is, though a small number, surprising.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:37 am 
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falconchris wrote:
I actually think it should disregard fault as it will lead to accusations of favouritism.

You get a point for any car to car contact reported to the stewards (reported by teams or track officials)
$20,000 per point (perhaps need weighting to team budget for the poorer teams????)
3 pts and you miss a race
6 pts miss 2 races

This sounds harsh but it does penalise drivers who a) stick their nose up the inside even when they can't make the corner b) cut across cars they know are there because they have the racing line.

The reporting is inelegant but if the track officials are briefed to report contact that a) leaves debris on track or b) causes a spin of 180 degrees or more or c) causes a car to leave the race track then we should still have wheel to wheel racing but an incentive to keep it clean.

Teams will still be able to report wheel to wheel (or any no damage) contact but it will cost their driver a point so they would need to be very upset about it.

Reporting means that stewards will not have to watch every second to spot any incidents.


So Alonso would get a point for spa? and Vergne for Singapore?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:21 am 
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Toby. wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if FIA officials browse this forum. Some of the things that are speculated about here that turn into fact is, though a small number, surprising.



Definitely. I think some drivers do as well...


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:40 am 
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Eva09 wrote:
ManojHS wrote:
The rule is mostly triggered by Grosjean, Maldonado and Perez. It seems like a good move for now.


It's a great idea. I've had enough of these stupid grid penalties, partly because even Sheldon off of BBT wouldn't be able to figure out who is going to start all hail the mods where!

:thumbup:

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:42 am 
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Johnston wrote:
ManojHS wrote:
The rule is mostly triggered by Grosjean, Maldonado and Perez. It seems like a good move for now.



Perez? when has he been punished?


Haven't u seen the last race...... he got a stop n go penalty....n after the announcement of the deal with mclaren, he has been consistently crashing into others.... before that he was fine.. he tapped hulk from behind don't remember the race, but i think it was in korea where kobayashi took out jenson n rosberg, since it was only a minor contact and as hulk continued unscathed,he escaped a penalty there... he got a puncture damage at india by his own doing n some other was also involved.. In Japan, he almost took out hamilton, I don't know what perez was trying to do there

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:16 am 
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Ev0lutionz wrote:
Toby. wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if FIA officials browse this forum. Some of the things that are speculated about here that turn into fact is, though a small number, surprising.



Definitely. I think some drivers do as well...


No teams or drivers come here, it just so happens that some forum members do have some inside knowledge and general F1 knowledge.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:18 am 
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Toby. wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if FIA officials browse this forum. Some of the things that are speculated about here that turn into fact is, though a small number, surprising.


just a coincidence, you know one idea can be thought up by various people around the world at one time or another?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:37 am 
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I don't see how it can be any fairer - we have seen the accidents and arguments, whose fault this and whose fault that - and we have seen some very unreasonable stewards decisions! presumably, the stewards are still gonna assess the situations and dish out points as they see fit?
The only difference is that they have a fixed tally system whereby you reach X points and then get a race ban. Even that could be dodgy - you could have a few very minor offences (no danger to other drivers, etc) and tot up some points to reach a ban - whereas, someone could be much more dangerous (RG?) but only receive a few points for a massive offence! The points tally system needs to reflect the seriousness of the offence and cannot really be 'fixed' IMHO.
Few incidents are ever the 'same' - different views are always gonna arise on how incidents are assessed. They will need to retain some form of flexibility to arrive at a fair punishments.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:13 pm 
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kaka007 wrote:
Johnston wrote:
ManojHS wrote:
The rule is mostly triggered by Grosjean, Maldonado and Perez. It seems like a good move for now.



Perez? when has he been punished?


Haven't u seen the last race...... he got a stop n go penalty....n after the announcement of the deal with mclaren, he has been consistently crashing into others.... before that he was fine.. he tapped hulk from behind don't remember the race, but i think it was in korea where kobayashi took out jenson n rosberg, since it was only a minor contact and as hulk continued unscathed,he escaped a penalty there... he got a puncture damage at india by his own doing n some other was also involved.. In Japan, he almost took out hamilton, I don't know what perez was trying to do there


Okay one stop and go, in two years, Hardly Consistently crashing in to others?

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