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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:27 am 
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Kushal Msc-3 wrote:
scuderia_stevie wrote:
wj_gibson wrote:
At the end of the day I don't think Ron is really all that much good at managing drivers. All his best ones have ended up going off to drive for a rival, other than Hakkinen and Lauda. And Lauda was of retirement age anyway.

Spot on.

For Ron personally, I think there is some emotional attachment to Hamilton, but he feels more betrayed because he's got him to where he is now. He's invested a lot of time and money to rise to a WDC and now he walks away. As above, had he retained more of his drivers over the years, he'd have won even more than he has.

I don't think Anthony Hamilton's comments about Ron not getting his hands on this trophy went down well either.


I really disagree. Ron Dennis supported Lewis Hamilton. He is not responsible for where Hamilton is today in the world of F1, only Hamilton is. He's made his own career and who knows he may have still become WDC even without McLaren and Ron Dennis, just with some other team/mentor. Dennis saw talent in Hamilton and invested in him. It was a give and take relationship and as Hamilton grew to the world of F1, Dennis and McLaren at least in Hamilton's eyes were taking more than giving.

Whether Hamilton is seeking a new challenge or just heading off somewhere for the money, is totally his choice and wish. He should not be grudged about it. I'm sure Hamilton and McLaren have spent a lot of years together, filled with lows but also plenty of highs and great accomplishments. Such interviews and comments only tarnish those moments and leave a bad after taste.

F1 is cruel. That's how it is. People move on. I think, in such regards, Schumacher and Raikkonen handle such situations best. Both, have their own ways. While Schumacher is ever the team man and always behind his boys, Raikkonen couldn't give two sh!ts! :]


IMO, RD has a very difficult time expressing his emotions, well, at least in a language that normal people can understand. In my hearts of hearts, I don't think RD wanted LH to leave. However, he's been in the business long enough to know that drivers--even great ones--come and go. But, RD's job is to ensure that McLaren endures and succeeds as an F1 team and as a corporation. So, that's his focus.

As for those naysayers who feel LH owes something to McLaren. I couldn't agree more. LH earned his sponsorship with McLaren when he was up and coming and he earned his spot on the team. He was gifted nothing. F1 is a billion dollar business and it's cut-throat. For a prospective driver, there's no such thing as a charity case. Sure, some teams may take a pay driver, but not McLaren. They have sufficent resources where they don't have to resort to that. For now.

Whatever the outcome of LH's venture (to MBZ), I'm sure he'll have both his ups and downs. But, sometimes the regret of not trying something new can be greater than the regret of trying something new and failing. I applaud his decision and wish him well.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:04 am 
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chinki wrote:
SWAN wrote:
Johnston wrote:
SWAN wrote:
On Sky...Martin Brundels comments after Rons interview were very interesting...



FFS I had to watch it on SKY go, thought it was over so gave the lappy back to the Mrs.

Didn't record it cause she was watching the arrows and the kid had something recording :evil: :evil: :evil:


in short Brundle said he is a good friend of RD and that he is a 'very' complex character and that he will be gutted at Lewis leaving

Then he should have worked harder at retaining him. In any case, this is all done and dusted now and it doesnt matter how Ron or Lewis feel now coz they both made the beds they want to sleep on next year.


It's not really up to Ron to negotiate contracts anymore, but even so by the sounds of it McLaren worked very hard to retain him. Sometimes, though, that's not enough. If Hamilton needs a new challenge then he needs a new challenge and there's not much McLaren can do about it. My feeling is that Hamilton would have left whatever McLaren could offer.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:06 am 
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tomboys wrote:
Kushal Msc-3 wrote:
scuderia_stevie wrote:
wj_gibson wrote:
At the end of the day I don't think Ron is really all that much good at managing drivers. All his best ones have ended up going off to drive for a rival, other than Hakkinen and Lauda. And Lauda was of retirement age anyway.

Spot on.

For Ron personally, I think there is some emotional attachment to Hamilton, but he feels more betrayed because he's got him to where he is now. He's invested a lot of time and money to rise to a WDC and now he walks away. As above, had he retained more of his drivers over the years, he'd have won even more than he has.

I don't think Anthony Hamilton's comments about Ron not getting his hands on this trophy went down well either.


I really disagree. Ron Dennis supported Lewis Hamilton. He is not responsible for where Hamilton is today in the world of F1, only Hamilton is. He's made his own career and who knows he may have still become WDC even without McLaren and Ron Dennis, just with some other team/mentor. Dennis saw talent in Hamilton and invested in him. It was a give and take relationship and as Hamilton grew to the world of F1, Dennis and McLaren at least in Hamilton's eyes were taking more than giving.

Whether Hamilton is seeking a new challenge or just heading off somewhere for the money, is totally his choice and wish. He should not be grudged about it. I'm sure Hamilton and McLaren have spent a lot of years together, filled with lows but also plenty of highs and great accomplishments. Such interviews and comments only tarnish those moments and leave a bad after taste.

F1 is cruel. That's how it is. People move on. I think, in such regards, Schumacher and Raikkonen handle such situations best. Both, have their own ways. While Schumacher is ever the team man and always behind his boys, Raikkonen couldn't give two sh!ts! :]


IMO, RD has a very difficult time expressing his emotions, well, at least in a language that normal people can understand. In my hearts of hearts, I don't think RD wanted LH to leave. However, he's been in the business long enough to know that drivers--even great ones--come and go. But, RD's job is to ensure that McLaren endures and succeeds as an F1 team and as a corporation. So, that's his focus.

As for those naysayers who feel LH owes something to McLaren. I couldn't agree more. LH earned his sponsorship with McLaren when he was up and coming and he earned his spot on the team. He was gifted nothing. F1 is a billion dollar business and it's cut-throat. For a prospective driver, there's no such thing as a charity case. Sure, some teams may take a pay driver, but not McLaren. They have sufficent resources where they don't have to resort to that. For now.

Whatever the outcome of LH's venture (to MBZ), I'm sure he'll have both his ups and downs. But, sometimes the regret of not trying something new can be greater than the regret of trying something new and failing. I applaud his decision and wish him well.


:thumbup: ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:37 am 
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Kushal Msc-3 wrote:
scuderia_stevie wrote:
wj_gibson wrote:
At the end of the day I don't think Ron is really all that much good at managing drivers. All his best ones have ended up going off to drive for a rival, other than Hakkinen and Lauda. And Lauda was of retirement age anyway.

Spot on.

For Ron personally, I think there is some emotional attachment to Hamilton, but he feels more betrayed because he's got him to where he is now. He's invested a lot of time and money to rise to a WDC and now he walks away. As above, had he retained more of his drivers over the years, he'd have won even more than he has.

I don't think Anthony Hamilton's comments about Ron not getting his hands on this trophy went down well either.


I really disagree. Ron Dennis supported Lewis Hamilton. He is not responsible for where Hamilton is today in the world of F1, only Hamilton is. He's made his own career and who knows he may have still become WDC even without McLaren and Ron Dennis, just with some other team/mentor. Dennis saw talent in Hamilton and invested in him. It was a give and take relationship and as Hamilton grew to the world of F1, Dennis and McLaren at least in Hamilton's eyes were taking more than giving.

Whether Hamilton is seeking a new challenge or just heading off somewhere for the money, is totally his choice and wish. He should not be grudged about it. I'm sure Hamilton and McLaren have spent a lot of years together, filled with lows but also plenty of highs and great accomplishments. Such interviews and comments only tarnish those moments and leave a bad after taste.

F1 is cruel. That's how it is. People move on. I think, in such regards, Schumacher and Raikkonen handle such situations best. Both, have their own ways. While Schumacher is ever the team man and always behind his boys, Raikkonen couldn't give two sh!ts! :]

Very naive statement. Yes Lewis has talent and that's the reason Ron invested in him, but to do so at such an early age was extremely unusual and showed a lot of faith. It's all very well to judge with the benefit of hindsight but if Ron hadn't spotted him then who knows how his path to F1 would have turned out? Don't underestimate the benefit of never ever having to worry about sponsorship or having as professional a team as McLaren guiding you every step of the way, coaching you and giving you insider tips. And getting put into one of the top two teams on the grid in your very first year in F1 is something most drivers would kill for. Both of them got Lewis to where he is today. Whatever the rights and wrongs of expressing it publicly its understandable that Ron would feel upset at having his protege fly the coop.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:48 am 
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Did Anthony Hamilton really live on air say they were going to break contract, which it ultimately is if they are going to keep the trophy?

Have some brains man, keep scthum and have it go "Missing" FFS. Then go all shaggy on them. "It wasn't me"

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:43 am 
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chrcoluk wrote:
rickyf1 wrote:
What do you all think.

To me Ron sounds more sour than Martin.


link?

otherwise got no idea what you on about.

....well i have sensed this too - ron is sour about lewis leaving - he could have donned the red shirt yesterday - cmon ron , let it go


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:58 am 
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slide wrote:
chrcoluk wrote:
rickyf1 wrote:
What do you all think.

To me Ron sounds more sour than Martin.


link?

otherwise got no idea what you on about.

....well i have sensed this too - ron is sour about lewis leaving - he could have donned the red shirt yesterday - cmon ron , let it go


He didn't wear the shirt in Canada either. ron never wears team gear these days.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:49 am 
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In his interview he seemed to be putting on his business face that has made him a billionaire, but in his body language he's still not come to terms with it and will remain detached from the emotion until the final chequred flag at Brazil. I expect a lot of teary faces at McLaren.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:53 am 
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lunatic wrote:
sgt.hartman wrote:
Did anyone else see Anthony Hamilton on Sky, re the trophy and Ron Dennis?

My god that was a difficult viewing... Does Anthony realise Ron probably has enough connections to have him clipped and never serve a day in prison for it?

Ha.
Difficult viewing for you maybe, all i saw was a very proud father and his son saying that they were going to keep the trophy as it was hard fought and well deserved, i thought it was good.


There are ways of doing things and what AH did on live TV wasn't the most classy. It might have been better if he'd said "McLaren aren't getting this one" or whatever, but to single out a name... I expected better of him, I think.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:21 am 
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I wouldnt take that so seriously, it was said in jest.

If Big Ron wants the trophy, he Keeps the trophy.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:25 am 
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Found this: http://www1.skysports.com/formula1/video/24066/8258804


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:11 pm 
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tomboys wrote:


Whatever the outcome of LH's venture (to MBZ), I'm sure he'll have both his ups and downs. But, sometimes the regret of not trying something new can be greater than the regret of trying something new and failing. I applaud his decision and wish him well.



100%

It's honestly better for all parties involved. Lewis may come to appreciate McLaren's role in his career more while also growing as a person and driver, McLaren hopefully start realizing they need some changes.

I honestly don't see a problem with Lewis maybe coming back to McLaren one day and both of them being more committed to a common goal

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:02 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
SWAN wrote:
On Sky...Martin Brundels comments after Rons interview were very interesting...



FFS I had to watch it on SKY go, thought it was over so gave the lappy back to the Mrs.

Didn't record it cause she was watching the arrows and the kid had something recording :evil: :evil: :evil:



So some of the post that we read from you are actually from the MRS. Hmmmm!!! :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:09 pm 
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SilverPower wrote:
Johnston wrote:
SWAN wrote:
On Sky...Martin Brundels comments after Rons interview were very interesting...



FFS I had to watch it on SKY go, thought it was over so gave the lappy back to the Mrs.

Didn't record it cause she was watching the arrows and the kid had something recording :evil: :evil: :evil:



So some of the post that we read from you are actually from the MRS. Hmmmm!!! :lol:


Makes sense, some of the girly arguments put forward by you :P

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:44 pm 
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stevey wrote:
In his interview he seemed to be putting on his business face that has made him a billionaire, but in his body language he's still not come to terms with it and will remain detached from the emotion until the final chequred flag at Brazil. I expect a lot of teary faces at McLaren.

Ron's body language has always been a bit uneasy looking, even when he's perfectly at ease. Strange but that's how he is.
Even when he smiles or gives a smiling nod in moments of triumph he never looks fully pleased. LOL

As to signing drivers, Whitmarsh is not free to do as he pleases with the team and must consult with Ron on almost everything, including drivers contracts. Whenever there is a ton of money in question, company heads are generally always consulted with prior to making a final decision, and Ron is no exception. I still think Ron should be on the wall until he finds someone better than crazy-lazy-eyed Whitmarsh. He's not terrible but it feels like he's lacking a tad in people skills.

Anyhow, I hope Lewis does keep the Trophy! LOL

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:54 pm 
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You don't have to be a genius to see he is hurting inside - BIG TIME!!!

To lose someone that he treated like his own, the fastest guy in the sport to Mercedes must be tearing him up.

I still can't believe Ron didn't step in and said look Lewis, keep the trophies, we won't make you do as many sponsoring events, we will back you 100% just give us everything in the car.

Mclaren say they have ambition and are all about winning, then explain letting Lewis Hamilton go, will give you the wins, amazing speed, qualifier.

Can't get my head round it still. Don't get me wrong i still think if we give Jenson the car he will be able to win and Perez but they are not on Hamilton's level and never will be.

So hard to take, but everyone moves on i suppose!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:07 pm 
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LINK 8) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLOt_rSPuBo

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:08 pm 
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MclarenBullet wrote:
You don't have to be a genius to see he is hurting inside - BIG TIME!!!

Agreed! Despite all the tangled words, Ronspeak and justifications, he just looked to me like a man who's wife had left him for someone uglier and poorer but who does a very nice back and neck rub.

One other thing really caught my eye post-race. Hamilton was there with his Dad and they both made a big thing about the trophy and how they wanted to take this one home, Ron couldn't have it. I wonder..............if Ron had been willing to let him have his trophies instead of sticking them in a glass case at McLaren, would things have been different? Surely, it can't only have been about money. I'm looking forward to the memoir in about 15 years time.

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