planetf1.com

It is currently Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:07 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:50 pm
Posts: 85
In the middle of negotiations arrogant Ron Dennis came out publicly and suggest a paycut for Lewis Hamilton arguably the best driver in F1,while a year before he gave a generous raise to Button,who most agree is top of the 2nd tier
he then came out again and hinted that Lewis may not have a choice in the matter,its up to Mclaren

Everything points to a lack of respect for Lewis and a unacceptance that Lewis is now a man,and no longer 11yr boy

while Im speculating and making some educated deduction,and non of us know the whole truth,its seems that Ron and co are angry that Lewis refuse to stand still and be humiliated or be subserviant,and more over how dare him Lewis bargin and negotiate with us.he should just take what we give him and shut up


http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/918820-fur ... s-hamilton

http://www.f1today.net/en/news/angry-ro ... en-farewel

Suprise surprise BBC,SKY and most of the f1 media boyz club are not running that story....but some misguided tweets by Lewis commanded multiple stories on their sites.....

these establisement types just like keeping this young man down,cant report anything that puts him in a sympathetic light


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 7229
They're not reporting the story because it's just speculation and assumption. It states that Ron was already attending another event but then completely dismisses that reason with no explanation as to why. Pretty poor journalism.

And the public statements weren't uniquely Ron's preserve. Lewis also made statements, like the one where he said that McLaren would be surprised at the amount of PR he would not be doing. How come you don't mention that in the interests of balance?

This is just sh*t stirring


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:41 pm
Posts: 6587
Here we go again.

1) what was wrong with a pay cut Lewis himself said "It wasn't about money"

If it's not about money well then I'm sure he wouldn't have minded a pay cut if things are tight.

2) Leaving do for an employee or keeping a likely prior engament with a major sponsor and technical partner. Which one do you think the majority of team owners would have done in Rons place? what do you think ANY multi national company owner/bosses would have done?

As for being subservient. Umm what do you think around 100% of employees are to their bosses?

Humiliated. Yeah giving him a WDC and a race winning car plus funding his way through the ranks so he wanted for nothing and ultimately a £15mill a year pay packet, if thats humiliation I volunteer my kids for all of that.

_________________
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 201
Samaritan wrote:
while Im speculating and making some educated deduction,and non of us know the whole truth,its seems that Ron and co are angry that Lewis refuse to stand still and be humiliated or be subserviant,and more over how dare him Lewis bargin and negotiate with us.he should just take what we give him and shut up


I, for one, welcome another objective and, as you put it, educated post about Lewis and McLaren.

It needs saying, as Lewis Hamilton is the first driver ever to have changed teams after failing to reach an agreement when discussing contracts.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:09 pm
Posts: 3580
Ron is a bitter old goat at the best of the time, remember the "we were racing Fernando" comment. :lol:

_________________
http://www.racefan.co.uk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:41 pm
Posts: 735
Location: Worthing England.
lamo wrote:
Ron is a bitter old goat at the best of the time, remember the "we were racing Fernando" comment. :lol:
To be fair the way Alonso acted i'm suprised Ron didn't sack him with immediate effect, not really that bitter ;)

_________________
ImageImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:41 pm
Posts: 6587
lunatic wrote:
lamo wrote:
Ron is a bitter old goat at the best of the time, remember the "we were racing Fernando" comment. :lol:
To be fair the way Alonso acted i'm suprised Ron didn't sack him with immediate effect, not really that bitter ;)

Could have held him to his contract and as #2.

Being a sadistic peaky thats what I would have done :lol:

_________________
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:11 pm
Posts: 846
I honestly believe that Ron Dennis or most probably the tough negotiating Mclaren legal team were so busy playing hard ball business dealings with Lewis's MANAGEMENT Team that they actually forgot LEWIS in the process.

Lewis , on hearing reports back from his management team thought why is Ron doing this to me and felt hurt, took it personally as any of us probably would .

Ron now is very uncomfortable with the strength of his own emotional feelings about losing his protege.
His face on the pit wall at Austin during qualifying was the face of a proud father.

He is upset and will not want to let his emotions get the better of him in Brazil in front of the world .
It's going to be an emotional day for Lewis and Ron , also for Lewis's side of the garage and the Mclaren employers who watched this cheeky little boy racer grow into this dynamic F1 ace .

I personally understand why he won't be there and although it appears to be bitter and his words and actions are giving that impression I feel he just cannot handle emotional goodbyes .
and that is not an unusual stance for men of Ron's generation and character


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:49 pm
Posts: 272
Didn't lewis in his first year in F1 (at Monaco) more or less tell Dennis to go f--k himself when he was told to slow down,that must have really gone down well with Ron..gee no need to thank me for getting you into F1 you ungrateful little twit.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:40 pm
Posts: 84
Lancaster wrote:
Samaritan wrote:
while Im speculating and making some educated deduction,and non of us know the whole truth,its seems that Ron and co are angry that Lewis refuse to stand still and be humiliated or be subserviant,and more over how dare him Lewis bargin and negotiate with us.he should just take what we give him and shut up


I, for one, welcome another objective and, as you put it, educated post about Lewis and McLaren.

It needs saying, as Lewis Hamilton is the first driver ever to have changed teams after failing to reach an agreement when discussing contracts.


The sarcasm appears to have gone straight over some peoples heads! :]


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:13 am
Posts: 84
I am an Alonso and Ferrari fan, but I respect Hamilton immensely.

McLaren are morons for letting him go. They should have done whatever it took to keep him. Now they are stuck with no top driver for the first time since I remember. Just look at him v Jenson! Tbh if not for reliability I think he would have been WDC.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:19 am
Posts: 487
Johnston wrote:
lunatic wrote:
lamo wrote:
Ron is a bitter old goat at the best of the time, remember the "we were racing Fernando" comment. :lol:
To be fair the way Alonso acted i'm suprised Ron didn't sack him with immediate effect, not really that bitter ;)

Could have held him to his contract and as #2.

Being a sadistic peaky thats what I would have done :lol:


As we all now know that McLaren we're cheating big time then I don't Believe Ron was in a position do any off the above.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:52 am
Posts: 1310
johnp wrote:
Didn't lewis in his first year in F1 (at Monaco) more or less tell Dennis to go f--k himself when he was told to slow down,that must have really gone down well with Ron..gee no need to thank me for getting you into F1 you ungrateful little twit.
NO - that was Hungary, and the Fernando-dawdling-in-the-pits-during-quali episode. He and Ron had a bit of a heated exchange from what I recall.

_________________
What did you say... Douglas?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:49 pm
Posts: 272
tootsie323 wrote:
johnp wrote:
Didn't lewis in his first year in F1 (at Monaco) more or less tell Dennis to go f--k himself when he was told to slow down,that must have really gone down well with Ron..gee no need to thank me for getting you into F1 you ungrateful little twit.
NO - that was Hungary, and the Fernando-dawdling-in-the-pits-during-quali episode. He and Ron had a bit of a heated exchange from what I recall.

I beg to differ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Monaco_Grand_Prix, as if he would be able to pass Alonso in Monaco without taking out both cars (anybody remember Mansell battling Senna with a far superior car?)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:09 pm
Posts: 3580
johnp wrote:
tootsie323 wrote:
johnp wrote:
Didn't lewis in his first year in F1 (at Monaco) more or less tell Dennis to go f--k himself when he was told to slow down,that must have really gone down well with Ron..gee no need to thank me for getting you into F1 you ungrateful little twit.
NO - that was Hungary, and the Fernando-dawdling-in-the-pits-during-quali episode. He and Ron had a bit of a heated exchange from what I recall.

I beg to differ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Monaco_Grand_Prix, as if he would be able to pass Alonso in Monaco without taking out both cars (anybody remember Mansell battling Senna with a far superior car?)


Lewis had 5 laps more fuel and the cars got quicker as the stint went on and the fuel load burnt off.
The main reason they did not let me use those 5 laps of fuel is because if a SC came out in that period they would have lost a certain 1-2 for the sake of letting a rookie in his 5 F1 race (high risk of ending in tears) challenge for the win.

_________________
http://www.racefan.co.uk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 1100
Well one way or another Lewis is gone. With Alonso deeply entrenched at Ferrari and Vettel likewise at RBR, it's not likely that Ron will be able to bring in a comparable driver any time soon.

We are not privy to the details of the negotiation but I agree that there seemed to be undertones of a lack of respect and appreciation coming from Ron. One can only speculate but it seemed like Ron expected to be able to perpetually maintain the relationship in its initial state (Lewis as a young driver needing an opportunity and Ron as the guy that provides that opportunity). The relationship had changed though and, particularly this season, McLaren have been more of a hindrance to Hamilton's title chances than a help.

Ron needed to acknowledge that. He needed to court Lewis and try to entice him into signing with the team again. He took for granted that Lewis would want to stay and that was a mistake. Mercedes were willing to offer a massive pay increase while Ron was talking about a pay cut. He seemed to have a sense of entitlement. He seemed to think that Lewis would be obligated to stay and stay under Ron's terms.

A big part of what I believe to be the underlying factor is the attitude of the team. McLaren seem to shoot themselves in the foot more than anyone because they have failed to embrace the reality that in F1, you need to put your best driver in the best position possible to win. Red Bull certainly do it with Vettel and Ferrari do it with Alonso. You need your top guy to have full support and really build the team and car around him. McLaren insist on this notion of equality and all it really does is hinder the faster guy. With Ross Brawn, the one thing Hamilton knows is that his title chances will be maximized every year.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:41 pm
Posts: 6587
sandman1347 wrote:
Well one way or another Lewis is gone. With Alonso deeply entrenched at Ferrari and Vettel likewise at RBR, it's not likely that Ron will be able to bring in a comparable driver any time soon.

We are not privy to the details of the negotiation but I agree that there seemed to be undertones of a lack of respect and appreciation coming from Ron. One can only speculate but it seemed like Ron expected to be able to perpetually maintain the relationship in its initial state (Lewis as a young driver needing an opportunity and Ron as the guy that provides that opportunity). The relationship had changed though and, particularly this season, McLaren have been more of a hindrance to Hamilton's title chances than a help.

Ron needed to acknowledge that. He needed to court Lewis and try to entice him into signing with the team again. He took for granted that Lewis would want to stay and that was a mistake. Mercedes were willing to offer a massive pay increase while Ron was talking about a pay cut. He seemed to have a sense of entitlement. He seemed to think that Lewis would be obligated to stay and stay under Ron's terms.

A big part of what I believe to be the underlying factor is the attitude of the team. McLaren seem to shoot themselves in the foot more than anyone because they have failed to embrace the reality that in F1, you need to put your best driver in the best position possible to win. Red Bull certainly do it with Vettel and Ferrari do it with Alonso. You need your top guy to have full support and really build the team and car around him. McLaren insist on this notion of equality and all it really does is hinder the faster guy. With Ross Brawn, the one thing Hamilton knows is that his title chances will be maximized every year.


That misses one very big point, McLaren is a business. it exists to race, to win and to also make money for it's shareholders.

It does not exist to stroke one mans ego.

Decisions need to be made, we are not privy to the inner workings so we do not know the reasons behind them. So if Ron wasn't willing to be bent over and take everyone of Lewis' demands. It's his business and he pulls the strings. At the end of the day the team starts next year with a proven WDC and a hot new prospect. For McLaren that is hardly a doom and gloom scenario.

As for Ross brawn he's already stated No #1 neither is he some sort of Golden Bullet that guarantees success. .

_________________
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:42 pm
Posts: 706
Here's what I think FWIW.
when JB was brought it they must have assurred JB of equal status (which to be fair Macca have generally had or seemed to have AFAIK !) I don't think that will have bothered Hamilton initially BUT I think with JB's fairly wimpish start at Macca and struggling to adapt to the car, I think Macca made changes which subsequently misdirected Hamiltons efforts/understanding of the car. Add to that the further tyre issues, etc - and I personally think that Macca spent too much time making a mid-ground car (between 'both' drivers ) which suited neither perfectly.
I think if we ever get to know the real 'ins and outs' it will be interesting.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:42 pm
Posts: 706
FringeUK wrote:
Here's what I think FWIW.
when JB was brought it they must have assurred JB of equal status (which to be fair Macca have generally had or seemed to have AFAIK !) I don't think that will have bothered Hamilton initially BUT I think with JB's fairly wimpish start at Macca and struggling to adapt to the car, I think Macca made changes which subsequently misdirected Hamiltons efforts/understanding of the car. Add to that the further tyre issues, etc - and I personally think that Macca spent too much time making a mid-ground car (between 'both' drivers ) which suited neither perfectly.
I think if we ever get to know the real 'ins and outs' it will be interesting.


I should add that 'equal status' is not the same as supplying them with individual cars that suit the individual drivers preferences! Having two significantly different drivers is not ever gonna be easy to know what to do woth the car if they alternately seem to be able to get it to work well!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:58 am
Posts: 33
Location: Yorkshire, England
FringeUK wrote:
Here's what I think FWIW.
when JB was brought it they must have assurred JB of equal status (which to be fair Macca have generally had or seemed to have AFAIK !) I don't think that will have bothered Hamilton initially BUT I think with JB's fairly wimpish start at Macca and struggling to adapt to the car, I think Macca made changes which subsequently misdirected Hamiltons efforts/understanding of the car. Add to that the further tyre issues, etc - and I personally think that Macca spent too much time making a mid-ground car (between 'both' drivers ) which suited neither perfectly.
I think if we ever get to know the real 'ins and outs' it will be interesting.


Didn't Button win 2 out of his first 4 races with Macca and lead the title chase at the Canadian GP that year? Hardly wimpish...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:30 am
Posts: 161
Samaritan wrote:
In the middle of negotiations arrogant Ron Dennis came out publicly and suggest a paycut for Lewis Hamilton arguably the best driver in F1,while a year before he gave a generous raise to Button,who most agree is top of the 2nd tier
he then came out again and hinted that Lewis may not have a choice in the matter,its up to Mclaren

Everything points to a lack of respect for Lewis and a unacceptance that Lewis is now a man,and no longer 11yr boy

while Im speculating and making some educated deduction,and non of us know the whole truth,its seems that Ron and co are angry that Lewis refuse to stand still and be humiliated or be subserviant,and more over how dare him Lewis bargin and negotiate with us.he should just take what we give him and shut up


http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/918820-fur ... s-hamilton

http://www.f1today.net/en/news/angry-ro ... en-farewel

Suprise surprise BBC,SKY and most of the f1 media boyz club are not running that story....but some misguided tweets by Lewis commanded multiple stories on their sites.....

these establisement types just like keeping this young man down,cant report anything that puts him in a sympathetic light




Everything points to a lack of respect for the facts, let alone anything else.
Anyone would imagine from your article that Button was being offered more money than Hamilton, not so. Hamilton would have still been the far bigger earner. Even though the marketing finances have dropped markedly.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:16 am
Posts: 1308
Johnston wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Well one way or another Lewis is gone. With Alonso deeply entrenched at Ferrari and Vettel likewise at RBR, it's not likely that Ron will be able to bring in a comparable driver any time soon.

We are not privy to the details of the negotiation but I agree that there seemed to be undertones of a lack of respect and appreciation coming from Ron. One can only speculate but it seemed like Ron expected to be able to perpetually maintain the relationship in its initial state (Lewis as a young driver needing an opportunity and Ron as the guy that provides that opportunity). The relationship had changed though and, particularly this season, McLaren have been more of a hindrance to Hamilton's title chances than a help.

Ron needed to acknowledge that. He needed to court Lewis and try to entice him into signing with the team again. He took for granted that Lewis would want to stay and that was a mistake. Mercedes were willing to offer a massive pay increase while Ron was talking about a pay cut. He seemed to have a sense of entitlement. He seemed to think that Lewis would be obligated to stay and stay under Ron's terms.

A big part of what I believe to be the underlying factor is the attitude of the team. McLaren seem to shoot themselves in the foot more than anyone because they have failed to embrace the reality that in F1, you need to put your best driver in the best position possible to win. Red Bull certainly do it with Vettel and Ferrari do it with Alonso. You need your top guy to have full support and really build the team and car around him. McLaren insist on this notion of equality and all it really does is hinder the faster guy. With Ross Brawn, the one thing Hamilton knows is that his title chances will be maximized every year.


That misses one very big point, McLaren is a business. it exists to race, to win and to also make money for it's shareholders.

It does not exist to stroke one mans ego.

Decisions need to be made, we are not privy to the inner workings so we do not know the reasons behind them. So if Ron wasn't willing to be bent over and take everyone of Lewis' demands. It's his business and he pulls the strings. At the end of the day the team starts next year with a proven WDC and a hot new prospect. For McLaren that is hardly a doom and gloom scenario.

As for Ross brawn he's already stated No #1 neither is he some sort of Golden Bullet that guarantees success. .

who said anything about stroking ego?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:41 pm
Posts: 6587
nike2die4 wrote:
who said anything about stroking ego?



What would you call courting someone and enticing them to sign?

I call it stroking their ego.

_________________
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:14 am
Posts: 551
Johnston wrote:
Here we go again.

1) what was wrong with a pay cut Lewis himself said "It wasn't about money"

If it's not about money well then I'm sure he wouldn't have minded a pay cut if things are tight.

2) Leaving do for an employee or keeping a likely prior engament with a major sponsor and technical partner. Which one do you think the majority of team owners would have done in Rons place? what do you think ANY multi national company owner/bosses would have done?

As for being subservient. Umm what do you think around 100% of employees are to their bosses?

Humiliated. Yeah giving him a WDC and a race winning car plus funding his way through the ranks so he wanted for nothing and ultimately a £15mill a year pay packet, if thats humiliation I volunteer my kids for all of that.


Nipped that a bud quickly.

Lets all move along and leave Samaritan to his educated deductions.

_________________
Jenson Button
Kimi Raikkonen
Romain Grosjean
Nico Hulkenburg


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 1100
Johnston wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Well one way or another Lewis is gone. With Alonso deeply entrenched at Ferrari and Vettel likewise at RBR, it's not likely that Ron will be able to bring in a comparable driver any time soon.

We are not privy to the details of the negotiation but I agree that there seemed to be undertones of a lack of respect and appreciation coming from Ron. One can only speculate but it seemed like Ron expected to be able to perpetually maintain the relationship in its initial state (Lewis as a young driver needing an opportunity and Ron as the guy that provides that opportunity). The relationship had changed though and, particularly this season, McLaren have been more of a hindrance to Hamilton's title chances than a help.

Ron needed to acknowledge that. He needed to court Lewis and try to entice him into signing with the team again. He took for granted that Lewis would want to stay and that was a mistake. Mercedes were willing to offer a massive pay increase while Ron was talking about a pay cut. He seemed to have a sense of entitlement. He seemed to think that Lewis would be obligated to stay and stay under Ron's terms.

A big part of what I believe to be the underlying factor is the attitude of the team. McLaren seem to shoot themselves in the foot more than anyone because they have failed to embrace the reality that in F1, you need to put your best driver in the best position possible to win. Red Bull certainly do it with Vettel and Ferrari do it with Alonso. You need your top guy to have full support and really build the team and car around him. McLaren insist on this notion of equality and all it really does is hinder the faster guy. With Ross Brawn, the one thing Hamilton knows is that his title chances will be maximized every year.


That misses one very big point, McLaren is a business. it exists to race, to win and to also make money for it's shareholders.

It does not exist to stroke one mans ego.

Decisions need to be made, we are not privy to the inner workings so we do not know the reasons behind them. So if Ron wasn't willing to be bent over and take everyone of Lewis' demands. It's his business and he pulls the strings. At the end of the day the team starts next year with a proven WDC and a hot new prospect. For McLaren that is hardly a doom and gloom scenario.

As for Ross brawn he's already stated No #1 neither is he some sort of Golden Bullet that guarantees success. .

Stroking an ego has nothing to do with it. It's about winning titles (something McLaren has struggled to do in recent years). Make no mistake, Alonso wouldn't be in with a chance at the title this year (nor 2010 for that matter) if Ferrari went out of their way to make sure that he and Felipe were treated with complete equality. The amount of times that Felipe has moved over for Fernando or compromised his race strategy for him over these last 3 years is staggering. Fernando has complete support from Ferrari and thus, even without the best car, his title chances are maximized. He is scoring the most points that he possibly could and that is what allows him to compete with the Bulls.

Red Bull is similar although not nearly in as blatant a fashion. The team is clearly built around Vettel and the car is tailored to his strengths wherever possible. They have tried not to be obvious about favoritism but I think, at times, they have given themselves away.

At McLaren, on the other hand, the team insists on the drivers having equality and freedom to compete with each other. This results in neither driver maximizing their results and the team being unable to win titles even with a truly competitive car.

In 2007, had they backed either Alonso or Hamilton completely, they would have taken the title. In 2010, Hamilton might have won the title even with a slower car had they provided him with #1 status (there were multiple races where he finished one place behind Jenson). There were even times like last year in Canada where Hamilton was taken out of the race after a collision between him and Jenson.

McLaren is a business. You're right about that but unfortunately, they seem to want not only to win but to do so while maintaining the appearance that it was the car and not the drivers who deserve the lion's share of the credit. That desire works against the goal of actually winning the titles. Here we are at the final race of the partnership between Lewis and Jenson and what has all this bending over backwards to ensure equality achieved? Absolutely nothing! Not a single title in 3 years despite having the best driver line-up in the field!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:41 pm
Posts: 6587
Who has bent over where?

I keep seeing these claims that McLaren bent over backwards for JB but where's the proof? Because the team looked at telemetry?

If Lewis is so good how come he needs his team to move over for him to win championships? Lewis would have been in a better chance of the 2010 championship had he not collided with other cars putting himself out. But sure thats okay because McLaren should have made his team mate move over for him. In one of those races he finished one place behind JB, JB was in front in the WDC going into that race

Now what team do you know asks their leading driver to move over?

The next race it happened there were only 5 points of difference.

Sure when two drivers are that close and either one can do it, why would you nerf one of the drivers?

If Lewis is as good as is claimed on this forum, if he can drive any car as claimed, why does he need a mediocre driver like Button to move over so he can win the WDC?

In the last three years, how many times has Webber moved over for Seb?

_________________
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:09 pm
Posts: 3580
I can't remember JB running ahead of Lewis all year in 2010. Except for the two races JB won in the first 4 due to strategy.
So you are right, its like Massa helping Alonso this year, they are on different parts of the race track (although Massa is up with Alonso now) so its impossible for the slower driver to help out.

_________________
http://www.racefan.co.uk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:08 pm
Posts: 27
I still believe if things don't work out for Lewis in 2014 with new regs (possibly 2015) he'll end up back in the McLaren.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:41 pm
Posts: 6587
lamo wrote:
I can't remember JB running ahead of Lewis all year in 2010. Except for the two races JB won in the first 4 due to strategy.
So you are right, its like Massa helping Alonso this year, they are on different parts of the race track (although Massa is up with Alonso now).



Not quite like Massa and Alonso. JB and Lewis were only 26 points difference at seasons end ;)

and 5 points difference when JB should have been told to move across in Japan apparently .

_________________
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:09 pm
Posts: 3580
Johnston wrote:
lamo wrote:
I can't remember JB running ahead of Lewis all year in 2010. Except for the two races JB won in the first 4 due to strategy.
So you are right, its like Massa helping Alonso this year, they are on different parts of the race track (although Massa is up with Alonso now).



Not quite like Massa and Alonso. JB and Lewis were only 26 points difference at seasons end ;)

and 5 points difference when JB should have been told to move across in Japan apparently .


Lewis developed a gearbox problem and was going 2 second per lap slower, so unlikely Button would not overtake him and just sit on his gearbox.

Massa ran ahead of Alonso more often than Jenson ran ahead of Lewis in 2010. Jenson got two "lottery wins" in the first 4 races made his season look a lot better than it was. He has been closer to Lewis this year than he was in 2010.

_________________
http://www.racefan.co.uk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 1100
It's not really about having Jenson move over for Lewis. As has been pointed out, Jenson has rarely been right in front of Lewis and Lewis is capable of overtaking on his own in any case. It's more about treating Lewis as an elite talent and not just another driver. It's about building the team around him and, in some ways, the car as well. It's about maximizing his results! McLaren have failed miserably to take full advantage of Hamilton's abilities.

Most of us assume that it will be a bit of a struggle for Lewis initially at Mercedes but I actually think we may be surprised by how well things go.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:16 am
Posts: 1308
Johnston wrote:
nike2die4 wrote:
who said anything about stroking ego?



What would you call courting someone and enticing them to sign?

I call it stroking their ego.

i call it negotiation.. Ron's comment seemed like there was no negotiation..more like "we offer this n thats final ".....it seemed to me they were finally willing to budge wen it may have been too late and realized Lewis is a high profile driver and not that 11yr old boy who would do anything to drive for them.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:11 pm
Posts: 3029
Nobody here has the slightest clue what went on in the negotiations. Speculating is pointless.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:30 pm
Posts: 1029
ashley313 wrote:
Nobody here has the slightest clue what went on in the negotiations. Speculating is pointless.



This is a forum you know, but regardless of the specific maneuverings in the negotiations Ron's insistence on missing the final race of the season (and Lewis's final race for his team of course) is inexcusable. It is at best unprofessional, which is what Ron is supposed to pride himself and his organization on, and at worst petty and bitter.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:41 pm
Posts: 6587
ynot22 wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
Nobody here has the slightest clue what went on in the negotiations. Speculating is pointless.



This is a forum you know, but regardless of the specific maneuverings in the negotiations Ron's insistence on missing the final race of the season (and Lewis's final race for his team of course) is inexcusable. It is at best unprofessional, which is what Ron is supposed to pride himself and his organization on, and at worst petty and bitter.



He runs a multi national company, he might just have other things to do ya know.

The world, despite popular PF1 opinion does not revolve around one man.

_________________
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:37 pm
Posts: 854
Johnston wrote:
ynot22 wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
Nobody here has the slightest clue what went on in the negotiations. Speculating is pointless.



This is a forum you know, but regardless of the specific maneuverings in the negotiations Ron's insistence on missing the final race of the season (and Lewis's final race for his team of course) is inexcusable. It is at best unprofessional, which is what Ron is supposed to pride himself and his organization on, and at worst petty and bitter.



He runs a multi national company, he might just have other things to do ya know.

The world, despite popular PF1 opinion does not revolve around one man.

If he wanted to be there he would, anyother thing is only an excuse. Maybe Ron is afraid his emotions get the better of him, when Lewis finally steps out of his car, therefore he prefers to stay at home.

_________________
"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:41 pm
Posts: 6587
Why does any other thing have to be an excuse?

Is the guy not allowed to get on with running his company? It's not as if it's a cornershop where he can hang a "gone fishing" sign upon the door.

For all we know Ron is flying in for the race today anyway.

_________________
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:11 pm
Posts: 3029
I doubt Luca is in the paddock. We would have seen him by now. Nobody crying over that.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 201
ashley313 wrote:
I doubt Luca is in the paddock. We would have seen him by now. Nobody crying over that.

i am going to make an educated deduction and say luca doesnot respect fernando and wants to humiliate him


Next: Dietrich Mateschitz not being at the race is virtually the same as insulting Vettel's family and taking a dump in their fridge.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: angrypirate, Fiki, joshb, mikeyg123, mph, Pedrosa_4_Ever, Pest44, Sappher, shoot999 and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.156s | 13 Queries | GZIP : Off ]