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Do you consider Alonso a legend of F1?
Yes 48%  48%  [ 86 ]
No 16%  16%  [ 28 ]
Perhaps - He must win more championships first 27%  27%  [ 49 ]
Never - He'll never be an F1 legend 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
I like chocolate 8%  8%  [ 14 ]
Total votes : 179
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 Post subject: Alonso - A Legend of F1?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:56 am 
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Despite the last round title loss, Alonso has had a phenomenal year by anyone's standards. The statistics speak for themselves alone, rest assured the effort behind them is a story on its own. Three wins, 2 poles, and 14 podiums is a feat no one would have imagined in a deviant Ferrari that qualified 12th and 16th in Australia. Alonso's title chances were written off by critics and peers even before the Ferrari had turned a wheel in the first race. Dragging the Ferrari to a salvaged 5th was the absolute maximum that was expected from Alonso throughout the season.

Malaysia proved to be an eye opener for many of those critics as Alonso grabbed an unexpected victory from a fast chasing Sauber on a damp and drying track. The skill was evident, yet the car was sufficiently sub-par in normal conditions, as China and Bahrain showed the true potential of the car.

After testing, Europe grounded a strong resurgence for Alonso as the car now showed signs of competitiveness, yet was always a alluded from being the class of the field, and regularly qualified behind the McLarens, Red Bulls and often the Williams of Maldonado. Alonso now regularly competed for the win and provided strong results in Spain, Monaco and Canada, however it was his victory at Valencia that was the highlight of his season. Alonso charged up to 3rd from P11 on a track difficult to overtake, where a safety car allowed him to spring on Grosjean, while Vettel's failed alternator granted him the win. No one had expected him to be leading the championship at this point.

A wet qualifying in the UK and Germany allowed him pole on both occasions, where he was able to hold on to his lead on at least one event despite being hounded for the majority of the race by the McLarens and Red Bulls.

Hungary was a reminder of the true nature of the Ferrari, as Alonso finished a distant and out of touch 5th. Following retirements at Spa and Japan, and a strong Vettel resurgence of textbook lights to flags victory, Alonso's lead in the championship quickly evaporated. Despite a string of podiums from Korea to Brazil, the Spaniard was unable to close the gap to the faster Red Bull of Vettel eventually losing the championship by 3 points.

Alonso was blessed through the season with lightning quick starts, and it was almost guaranteed that the Ferrari would make up for places on the first lap for its poor qualifying pace. His consistency was breathtaking. At no point during the season was there a question of 'what if' Alonso had done something differently, as his position was always a true reflection of the maximum potential of the Ferrari.

Throughout, Alonso's fanbase grew exponentially. This was evident in New Delhi as the crowd roared for third place finisher Alonso on the podium, and he widely received accreditation and praise from team principals, critics and fellow drivers.

Although Alonso may have lost the championship marginally for the 3rd time in 5 attempts, respect and admiration for the man has not been greater in his career. The question is, would a fan take Alonso's name in the same breath as other F1 legends such as Fangio, Clark, Prost, Senna and Schumacher?


Last edited by theodore on Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:58 am 
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Not yet.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:02 am 
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You're looking for someone to troll this thread, aren't ya? >.>


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:10 am 
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maninblack wrote:
You're looking for someone to troll this thread, aren't ya? >.>


It's a legitimate question and I wasn't. Seems like I found someone. ;)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:11 am 
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maninblack wrote:
You're looking for someone to troll this thread, aren't ya? >.>

surely not. wouldnt have made such mammoth effort of writing so much.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:13 am 
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Easily.

Why need he win one more championship? Where's the rule which states that a driver must be a triple world champion to be an F1 legend? The 2012 season has cemented this status in my opinion. Hopefully before he retires he'll have the machinery for at least one more title.

The way I see it - we have the pleasure of watching an F1 legend while he's still young enough to be racing at his best.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:14 am 
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I reckon he is in the top 10 of all time.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:16 am 
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With another title I think he may well be. He's proven he can drive well in more than one team - that IMO says a lot about a driver.

There will however always be some tarnish on his reputation, simply for his involvement in several bits of controversy over the years.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:19 am 
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He's a great, but not a legend...yet.

Unfortunately coming so close so many times (even if he's only close because of his own abilities) has to make him a nearlyman. He's been in a potential Championship winning car at least 3 times since he last won, and he's failed, so until he can break that duck, he's not really in contention for legendary status. Vettel's closer, simply because of the audacity and circumstances of winning so much so young.

Sometimes all that makes the difference between a legend and a forgotten man is luck.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:19 am 
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until he get rid of his No.1 status minded and race fairly with his teammate, no, he isnt.

he is lucky that the competition was so tight this year, and the bullet proof reliability of his car, and a teammate that ready to sacrifise himself, become his new parts tester, tyre compound first taster, allow the team to focus on giving best strategies to Alonso etc.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:44 am 
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The man has just as many WDCs to his name as Fittipaldi, Hakkinen and Graham Hill.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:48 am 
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Centauri wrote:
Easily.

Why need he win one more championship? Where's the rule which states that a driver must be a triple world champion to be an F1 legend? The 2012 season has cemented this status in my opinion. Hopefully before he retires he'll have the machinery for at least one more title.

The way I see it - we have the pleasure of watching an F1 legend while he's still young enough to be racing at his best.


This. It's ridiculous to suggest for example that Vettel is an F1 legend and Alonso isn't. He will be widely remembered long after he is retired. ie legend

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:53 am 
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Adaemus wrote:
Unfortunately coming so close so many times (even if he's only close because of his own abilities) has to make him a nearlyman.


2 WDC's say otherwise.

Also, whether you think it's unsporting or not, he has earned his number one status.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:56 am 
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Centauri wrote:
Easily.

Why need he win one more championship? Where's the rule which states that a driver must be a triple world champion to be an F1 legend? The 2012 season has cemented this status in my opinion. Hopefully before he retires he'll have the machinery for at least one more title.

The way I see it - we have the pleasure of watching an F1 legend while he's still young enough to be racing at his best.

Could be right - only time will tell.

Meanwhile, he's proven that he's one of the best of his generation.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:08 am 
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Vettel may have won but I'm sure in most peoples minds they still see Alonso as more of a legend than Vettel. It's not just about winning titles.
And when I'm talking about 'most people' I don't include die-hard Vettel OR Alonso fans who will obviously be more biased (or even some Kimi fans who always seem to hold a grudge against the man). I mean everyone else who is simply an F1 fan.
My own opinion is that he was already a legend, 2012 has just confirmed that.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:26 am 
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Lotus38 wrote:
Vettel may have won but I'm sure in most peoples minds they still see Alonso as more of a legend than Vettel. It's not just about winning titles.
And when I'm talking about 'most people' I don't include die-hard Vettel OR Alonso fans who will obviously be more biased (or even some Kimi fans who always seem to hold a grudge against the man). I mean everyone else who is simply an F1 fan.
My own opinion is that he was already a legend, 2012 has just confirmed that.


You'd be referring to Alonso having been in F1 longer than Vettel, thus having more time to build a more storied career (with both highlights and lowlights).


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:34 am 
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Centauri wrote:
Easily.

Why need he win one more championship? Where's the rule which states that a driver must be a triple world champion to be an F1 legend? The 2012 season has cemented this status in my opinion.

And where's the rule which states that a driver must finish 2nd in 2012 to be an F1 legend?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:45 am 
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I voted yes simply because the other options didn't do it for me & that's from an Alonso fan since he first started in F1 in a Minardi. I don't think you can consider anyone a legend until they have finished their career & you can look back & analyse it with maybe the exception of Michael Schumacher :D .


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:57 am 
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Yes.

Firstly, he'll be remembered as the guy that broke Schumi's streak.

Secondly, he has two World Championships.

Thirdly, he has wins in 3 teams, and a lot of them.

Fourthly, even if Vettel, Hamilton and the rest keep him out of another WDC, he is still one of the finest drivers of his time.


So yes. While more might cement him in status, he's not exactly a borderline case as is.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:03 am 
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While he may not be to some, in time, he will be known as a legend. In my eyes at least anyway

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:37 am 
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No he is not a legend and neither is vettel but IMO (and this may be unpopular) ,vettel is a lot closer to achieving that status.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:52 am 
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I have a problem with the term "legend". It's such a hard term to define.

I'll say this, and I'm not a fan: Alonso surely will be remembered as one of the great drivers.
For Vettel it's still way early to tell, he still has like 2/3s of a career ahead of him.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:56 am 
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My personal opinion is that of the current field, there are two guys who will ultimately be remembered as being two of the best to ever grace F1, and they were the two men disputing the Championship this past Sunday. I would be surprised if Alonso didn't win at least one more WDC, but even if he doesn't, unless Ferrari provide him with a truly hopeless car for the rest of his career, he's going to end up with more wins/podiums than probably everyone but Schumi, Vettel and maybe Prost, having won two WDCs and missed out on three others by a total of eight points. I think after this season, he must've won over a lot of the remaining doubters in terms of his ability on-track, and I'm sure very few would say he lost the Championship to Seb through any fault of his own.

Of course, if he does win another WDC, he joins some very, very elite company, and there will obviously always be people who place more stock in the number of Championships a driver has (and hey, each to their own) but he's already done enough, IMO.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:56 am 
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Far from it, a lot of the guys voting for him are probably Ferrari fans, they'll jump on who ever is their designated #1 driver.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:01 pm 
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I've got a feeling he'll be a bit like Prost, people who know their F1 know he was one of the best drivers there has ever been but to the casual viewer it's the more sensational drivers like Senna or people who hit the headlines beyond F1 like Lauda for his huge accident or national heroes like Nigel Mansell who are better remembered as F1 legends.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:17 pm 
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lab105 wrote:
Far from it, a lot of the guys voting for him are probably Ferrari fans, they'll jump on who ever is their designated #1 driver.


I voted yes, and I'm not a fan of Ferrari in the slightest.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:41 pm 
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lab105 wrote:
Far from it, a lot of the guys voting for him are probably Ferrari fans, they'll jump on who ever is their designated #1 driver.


If you want to see it in such a simplistic light we could also say that those voting 'no' are probably people who dislike Alonso and of which there are many on this forum.
Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but some comments on this thread including 'far from it' just show a complete lack of objectivity.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:42 pm 
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Yes he is a Legend, 30 wins and 86 podiums suggests so.

He's won two WDC, one of which against MS in a quick Ferrari, he's also nearly won three other titles, 2007, 2010, 2012 depsite being in a slower car for much of this time, and if things had gone slightly different would be a five times champion. Then there's the the two lost years when he rejoined Renault after the Mclaren fall out.

If Ferrari can give Alonso a competitive car for a full season he will win more championships, the facts are he hasn't had a dominant car like others have enjoyed in recent times, and had he been driving a Mclaren or Red Bull would have more championships. The last time he had a quick car for a whole season was 2005/6.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:44 pm 
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Depends on the kind of Chocolate.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:49 pm 
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Lotus38 wrote:
lab105 wrote:
Far from it, a lot of the guys voting for him are probably Ferrari fans, they'll jump on who ever is their designated #1 driver.


If you want to see it in such a simplistic light we could also say that those voting 'no' are probably people who dislike Alonso and of which there are many on this forum.
Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but some comments on this thread including 'far from it' just show a complete lack of objectivity.


Don't buy into the hype, never have.

His 2005 title was won because Raikkonen's car kept breaking down, and Schumacher was out of it on those Bridgestone tyres. 2012 nearly went the same way, constantly whinged about his car, which had the race pace in 75% of the races, lucked into many positions through others reliability issues.

2006, the car was illegal for half the season.

He's won a race inwhich his teammate was instructed to crash on purpose, blocked a team-mate purposely in the pitlane, been party to stolen IP from a rival team. If that's what makes a great in some peoples eyes, so be it.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:57 pm 
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Sure sure sure...

Alonso + Massa = Legend.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:00 pm 
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BYF1 wrote:
The last time he had a quick car for a whole season was 2005/6.

The last time was 2007. He lost to his to rookie teammate.
F2010 was quick enough for whole season too...


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:19 pm 
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DrG wrote:
I voted yes simply because the other options didn't do it for me & that's from an Alonso fan since he first started in F1 in a Minardi. I don't think you can consider anyone a legend until they have finished their career & you can look back & analyse it with maybe the exception of Michael Schumacher :D .


That's something I did consider. I'm surprised you don't like chocolate. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:33 pm 
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I think he was already a legend after 2011 and this year has only strengthened that view. Of course I am a big fan of Alonso and will not attempt to play any neutrality cards. But I have plenty of reasons for my claim.

Alonso is relentless. I've been watching F1 since '03 and every year he has done justice to his car and more. He is at it all the time and even when he is beaten occasionally its by extremely fine margins. You can't say he has underperformed in any season. He frequently features in title fights and is very very highly spoken of in the paddock.

Technically he is very complete. He is a very good qualifier. Only Vettel and Hamilton are better in that regard IMO. He is a very good starter, very good overtaker, very good in the rain, and probably the best overall in the race.

He is also complete in the sense that he has proven to be good in a variety of situations. He has driven great cars, poor cars and cars in between. He has impressed with all kinds of cars. He has also driven and won races for three different teams, with different engines and chassis. And of course people took notice of him while he was driving a Minardi.

He might need one more WDC to find a stronger statistical foothold as a legend but in my eyes he is there already.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:40 pm 
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PacificBeach wrote:
BYF1 wrote:
The last time he had a quick car for a whole season was 2005/6.

The last time was 2007. He lost to his to rookie teammate.
F2010 was quick enough for whole season too...


Just compare Räikkönen-Massa at Ferrari to Alonso-Massa at Ferrari. Kimi was often beat by Massa who won 9 races between 2007-2009, in fact one race more than Kimi during the GPs that both started as Ferrari team mates. After that Massa has put himself in a race winning position only once, at Hockenheim 2010. Otherwise he has struggled and been comprehensively beaten by Alonso, something what Räikkönen never managed to do. Ferrari has been behind both McLaren and Red Bull in terms of pace for the past three seasons, and hasn't had a car as good they had in 07 and 08.

It was certain Gary Anderson who assessed after the weekend's Brazilian GP that it was Alonso who put Ferrari in the title fight when the car itself didn't merit that. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20501817

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:44 pm 
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You can't be a legend while you're still competing unless you have very unusual circumstances, like Schumi's.

History will decide if you're a legend. I suspect Alonso will be if he carries on as he has been.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:52 pm 
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mds wrote:
I have a problem with the term "legend". It's such a hard term to define.

I'll say this, and I'm not a fan: Alonso surely will be remembered as one of the great drivers.
For Vettel it's still way early to tell, he still has like 2/3s of a career ahead of him.



This

We could spend 20 pages discussing what is a 'legend' here.

He is a top driver of the time, but the current generation usually do not decide who is a legend, just who is popular.
At the moment, if I think back to memorable events none of the current drivers are there.

For example I instantly recall Mansell and Senna at Monaco. When that race was taking place, I would not have branded either as 'legends', but now in hindsight they were.

I suspect Vettell carving his way through the field will be replayed often enough and spoken of in the future, but even that I would not consider 'legendary'.

Alonso? No, nothing jumps into my mind.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:58 pm 
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There are a couple of things ruining his good stats and general impression. Stuff like requiring undisputed no 1 status, Trulli's sacking while having more points than Alonso 2004, blocking of Hamilton in Hungary 2007, staged Singapore 2008 victory, "Fernando is faster than you" 2010, 5 grid penalty for Massa's gearbox 2012...

Legends are not made of such stuff.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:58 pm 
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what is the definition of 'Legend'?

interesting point



mac_d wrote:

Thirdly, he has wins in 3 teams, and a lot of them.


There are currently only 3 drivers on the grid with similar achievement (if I am correct and my memory serves me well):
Alonso, Kimi and Button.

this is probably the full list of F1 drivers having wins with three or more teams

Kimi Räikkönen (McLaren, Ferrari & Lotus)
Jenson Button (Brawn, Honda & McLaren)
Fernando Alonso (Renault, McLaren & Ferrari)
Juan-Manuel Fangio (Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Lancia, Mercedes & Ferrari)
Alain Prost (Renault, Ferrari, McLaren & Williams)
Niki Lauda (Ferrari, Brabham & McLaren)
Nelson Piquet (Williams, Brabham & Benetton)
Stirling Moss (Mercedes, Maserati, Vanwall, Cooper & Lotus)
Carlos Reutemann (Brabham, Ferrari & Williams)
Gerhard Berger (Benetton, Ferrari & McLaren)
Jody Scheckter (Wolf, Ferrari & Tyrrell)
John Surtees (Cooper, Honda & Ferrari)
Tony Brooks (Vanwall, Maserati & Ferrari)
Dan Gurney (Porsche, Brabham & Eagle)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:59 pm 
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mds wrote:
I have a problem with the term "legend". It's such a hard term to define.

According to the Oxford dictionary, it is an extremely famous or notorious person, especially in a particular field

mds wrote:
I'll say this, and I'm not a fan: Alonso surely will be remembered as one of the great drivers.
For Vettel it's still way early to tell, he still has like 2/3s of a career ahead of him.
I will go along with extremely capable, but not yet a great driver. (He is still some way short of Alain Prost, just to give you an idea of my yardstick.)

So, for now, I'm sticking with the chocolate. Nomnomnom.... :blush:

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