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Should Lotus retain Grosjean?
Yes 47%  47%  [ 86 ]
No 53%  53%  [ 96 ]
Total votes : 182
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:13 pm 
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There we go again, just loses it on his one and smashes into wall, really needs to get out of F1 fast.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:42 pm 
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Jomox wrote:
There we go again, just loses it on his one and smashes into wall, really needs to get out of F1 fast.


I thought the EXACT same! I think Boullier is running out of excuses. Before Abu Dhabi he said they are monitoring his performances, he hasn't had a clean race since. Contact with rosberg then the incident with webber and perez, spin in austin, DLR in q1 and then (in lots of space) spinning out in brazil.

IF Boullier keeps him then I want to hear the justification. :S


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:59 pm 
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Santuri9 wrote:
Jomox wrote:
There we go again, just loses it on his one and smashes into wall, really needs to get out of F1 fast.


I thought the EXACT same! I think Boullier is running out of excuses. Before Abu Dhabi he said they are monitoring his performances, he hasn't had a clean race since. Contact with rosberg then the incident with webber and perez, spin in austin, DLR in q1 and then (in lots of space) spinning out in brazil.

IF Boullier keeps him then I want to hear the justification. :S


If he keeps him, expect Lotus to suffer again in the standings, losing money as a result on top of all the damage for repairs, never mind the team image.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:04 pm 
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Lotus should have signed Hulkenberg IMO. Promising yet proven, good race pace.

Anybody have the numbers on how many parts / cars Grosjean has cost Lotus this season?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:10 pm 
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Santuri9 wrote:
Lotus should have signed Hulkenberg IMO. Promising yet proven, good race pace.

Anybody have the numbers on how many parts / cars Grosjean has cost Lotus this season?


To much :lol:

There's many better drivers out there that could do the Lotus justice along side Kimi, it's a ruined seat.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:14 pm 
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Jomox wrote:
Santuri9 wrote:
Lotus should have signed Hulkenberg IMO. Promising yet proven, good race pace.

Anybody have the numbers on how many parts / cars Grosjean has cost Lotus this season?


To much :lol:

There's many better drivers out there that could do the Lotus justice along side Kimi, it's a ruined seat.


I will monitor this thread until Lotus announce their second driver for 2013.

With the rumours of them signing big sponsors ( Honeyworth was it, and now Samsung) added to their initially rumoured and since then confirmed Coca-Cola sponsership it could be that they won't need Romain's Total + Clear money (Which he might have +- zeroed with all the damage he's cost the team :D )


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:20 pm 
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No, romain is fast n talented n i like him, but he is too crash prone n that is not good for a team like lotus

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:26 pm 
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He is the biggest crash barrier magnet I have ever seen....so thats a no from me as there are plenty of other drivers around who bring in more points with less repair costs


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:08 am 
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After today, I really don't see how they can justify keeping him. 50% of people here said he should say. Is 50% good enough in F1? What does that say about the competitiveness of the class? Surely Kobayashi to name just one example, is more deserving of a place in F1?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:13 am 
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Jomox wrote:
Santuri9 wrote:
Lotus should have signed Hulkenberg IMO. Promising yet proven, good race pace.

Anybody have the numbers on how many parts / cars Grosjean has cost Lotus this season?


To much :lol:

There's many better drivers out there that could do the Lotus justice along side Kimi, it's a ruined seat.


The Lotus today was frigtening. It was a snappy car. Kimi struggled too. It is not only Romain. Stiff or something.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:35 am 
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Eva09 wrote:


The Lotus today was frigtening. It was a snappy car. Kimi struggled too. It is not only Romain. Stiff or something.


The thing is Kimi had no proper running in the practice sessions as opposed to Groggy. So he should have outclassed Kimi by default. At least I was expecting it but it didn't happen, so it is very disappointing the Groggy throws his chances team points in the wind on many many occasions...

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:37 am 
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Jinx wrote:
Eva09 wrote:


The Lotus today was frigtening. It was a snappy car. Kimi struggled too. It is not only Romain. Stiff or something.


The thing is Kimi had no proper running in the practice sessions as opposed to Groggy. So he should have outclassed Kimi by default. At least I was expecting it but it didn't happen, so it is very disappointing the Groggy throws his chances team points in the wind on many many occasions...


lotus struggling on wet track....hardly a surprise isn't it??


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:45 am 
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NvrDieYoung wrote:
Jinx wrote:
Eva09 wrote:


The Lotus today was frigtening. It was a snappy car. Kimi struggled too. It is not only Romain. Stiff or something.


The thing is Kimi had no proper running in the practice sessions as opposed to Groggy. So he should have outclassed Kimi by default. At least I was expecting it but it didn't happen, so it is very disappointing the Groggy throws his chances team points in the wind on many many occasions...


lotus struggling on wet track....hardly a surprise isn't it??

yeah I was thinking rain would kill the Lotus... but I still thought Groggy would do better than Kimi just becos he had more track time practice n setup time than Kimi.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:43 am 
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Its not just his bad luck if he keeps crashing every race.. He has to go, he is costing the team way too much and we were robbed of better racing. He definitely has speed and talent, but he does not deserve Lotus at this point in his career, maybe a Williams or an FI for a year or 2 to prove himself and then he can go to Lotus or bigger teams.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:08 am 
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Santuri9 wrote:
Jomox wrote:
There we go again, just loses it on his one and smashes into wall, really needs to get out of F1 fast.


I thought the EXACT same! I think Boullier is running out of excuses. Before Abu Dhabi he said they are monitoring his performances, he hasn't had a clean race since. Contact with rosberg then the incident with webber and perez, spin in austin, DLR in q1 and then (in lots of space) spinning out in brazil.

IF Boullier keeps him then I want to hear the justification. :S


Exactly! they said they weren't confirming him yet because they were going to monitor him for the rest of the season to see if has overcome his problems. He +clearly+ has not, so now what? If they announce him now I think it's going to sound ridiculous, but somehow I think they will. Something to do with Boullier being his agent, plus his nationality and relationship with Renault and Total. I think they will announce it on Christmas day and hope nobody notices.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:19 am 
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The thing that really strikes me about Grosjean is that mistakes are lack of skill. You got Maldonado, a mad man pushing and crashing into people but that's because he's overly aggresive. That's something which can be improved, something that his team can actually work on. Grosjean on the other hand is not that aggresive, it appears to me he lacks the instincs and spacial awareness, good luck to Lotus figuring out how to help him about that.

I really did like him, even after taking the guy I support (Alonso) out he's just not improving. He is fast but this is F1. Fast is only a part of the equation, you need brain, consistency, acute decision making and instincs. And he's lacking in these stuff.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:47 am 
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That guy is a huge repair bill!!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:14 am 
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no, should give it to Hekki.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:17 am 
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Heikki or Senna will be in his seat from 2013. The guy can't drive an F1 car. He's had his second chance and still blew it. Get rid of him.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:32 am 
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Image

Edit: Didn't find this myself, found it on another forum but thought it would be relevant in this thread :)


Last edited by Santuri9 on Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:40 am 
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Santuri9 wrote:
Image


Priceless :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:01 am 
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Santuri9 wrote:
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Ahah, epic :]


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:37 am 
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lol!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:04 pm 
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RickM wrote:
Heikki or Senna will be in his seat from 2013. The guy can't drive an F1 car. He's had his second chance and still blew it. Get rid of him.


What has Senna done to deserve a top seat? Other than qualifying consistently poorly and finishing on the fringes of the points a few times. He's not exactly incident free either.

I'd pick Sutil, Glock, Heikki, Kobayashi, Alguersuari or even Heidfeld above Bruno

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:51 pm 
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I guess I'm one of the only ones who actually like Grosjean and rate him quite high as a driver. Yes he crashes alot, or makes mistakes that end up in retirements, but it's NOT always his fault. People seem to ignore this fact and just look at the crashes and number of retirements, and jump on the bandwagon that every little thing that happens to him is entirely his fault.

He is a decent driver, if he wasn't, he wouldn't have been on the podium at all this season, but he was. In qualifying, most of the time he is lightning quick. He has impressed me as a rookie (Or half rookie) People should give him another season just to see if he can iron out his mistakes. When he is not involved in incident, people generally look upon on him with a good light and note his good overtakes or his good race pace. Unfortunately, people don't seem to want to look at all the facts when it comes to his retirements and just judge him by what others say. Shame really.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:56 pm 
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I think Brazil shows why he really needs to go.

While the incident with PDR was arguably a "racing" incident, it was qualifying. Why did he feel the need to take the risk? While he's arguably not caused any crashes since his ban (and I'm being very generous here), he keeps finding himself in the wrong place and does the wrong thing. It's almost as if every time he has a choice to make, he instinctively chooses the wrong one, and it happens way too often to be put down to luck.

As for the race, while the Lotus certainly looked a handful, he was the first driver just to bin it, when he was under absolutely no pressure. Again, why was he taking the risks?

He can certainly be quick, but he seems to lack a "racing brain", and he's showing no signs of developing one. Without that, he's just a quick repair bill, and Lotus needs more than that. They could have had third in the constructors this year, and that brings a healthy slug of cash, but there's no chance of getting there with the guy who completes the fewest number of laps in the season.

I'm sorry, but I think he should go. As for a replacement, well, I've got a soft spot for KK, although Alguersuari could be useful given his knowledge of Pirelli, and the fact that Lotus does, on occasion, seem to have problems with the operating window for the tires.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:00 pm 
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coulthards chin wrote:
RickM wrote:
Heikki or Senna will be in his seat from 2013. The guy can't drive an F1 car. He's had his second chance and still blew it. Get rid of him.


What has Senna done to deserve a top seat? Other than qualifying consistently poorly and finishing on the fringes of the points a few times. He's not exactly incident free either.

I'd pick Sutil, Glock, Heikki, Kobayashi, Alguersuari or even Heidfeld above Bruno


Last time I checked, before Brazil Senna had only 1 retirement, and that was caused by Michael driving into him. Out of the available drivers, he's one of the best options, and has certainly improved a hell of a lot more this year than people give him credit for.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:18 pm 
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RickM wrote:
coulthards chin wrote:
RickM wrote:
Heikki or Senna will be in his seat from 2013. The guy can't drive an F1 car. He's had his second chance and still blew it. Get rid of him.


What has Senna done to deserve a top seat? Other than qualifying consistently poorly and finishing on the fringes of the points a few times. He's not exactly incident free either.

I'd pick Sutil, Glock, Heikki, Kobayashi, Alguersuari or even Heidfeld above Bruno


Last time I checked, before Brazil Senna had only 1 retirement, and that was caused by Michael driving into him. Out of the available drivers, he's one of the best options, and has certainly improved a hell of a lot more this year than people give him credit for.


He just lacks that killer edge though, yes he can consistently finish races but he's never really shown amazing amount of speed to pull the results out, something you need if challenging for the top 3 instead of someone hovering around in average positions (When podiums are possible, say in the Lotus)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:26 pm 
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RickM wrote:
coulthards chin wrote:
RickM wrote:
Heikki or Senna will be in his seat from 2013. The guy can't drive an F1 car. He's had his second chance and still blew it. Get rid of him.


What has Senna done to deserve a top seat? Other than qualifying consistently poorly and finishing on the fringes of the points a few times. He's not exactly incident free either.

I'd pick Sutil, Glock, Heikki, Kobayashi, Alguersuari or even Heidfeld above Bruno


Last time I checked, before Brazil Senna had only 1 retirement, and that was caused by Michael driving into him. Out of the available drivers, he's one of the best options, and has certainly improved a hell of a lot more this year than people give him credit for.


Maybe not retirements necessarily and the incidents haven't always been his fault. But the ones I can remember...

Australia - Collision with Massa
Malaysia - 1st lap hits Maldo
Barca - Taken out by Shumi
Valencia - Collision with Kobayashi
Silverstone - Big accident in Friday practice
Japan - Takes out Rosberg in turn 1
Abu Dhabi - Involved in 1st corner incident with Hulkenberg
Brazil - Over-ambitious into turn 4, Vettel turns in on him and he gets hit by Perez.

It's not to say I think Senna has been bad. he needs to sort his qualifying out but I think he deserves another season at Williams. I just don't think he has shown anything special to warrant a seat at any of the top teams.

Admittedly none of the other candidates have particularly either. Kobayashi has had flashes, while Heikki and Sutil have proven reliable but unspectacular.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:26 pm 
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Among current drivers glock and ricciardo look like value drivers to me.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:09 am 
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http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/11/27/lotus ... -on-trees/


Boullier: "At the moment we are having a few days or a few weeks of consideration, This season, there were not terrible things and not great things. But we’re not going to bury the kid, he did three podiums.”


Lopez told L’Equipe: “Romain is one of the fastest drivers in F1.

“He understands the car, he can get the most from it, but he has not done everything we asked of him, especially in terms of consistency.

“But the kind of speed he has does not grow on trees.

“The reason he is not yet confirmed for 2013 is because we have not yet had time to sit down and discuss it together with the engineers. Then we’ll see.

“My desire is to see Romain in the car, but it depends more on him than me.”


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:14 am 
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Yes, keep Grosjean and sack Kimi.

Yep, thats what I'd prefer to happen, but Kimi's far too good to be sacked, no reason for it. But just shows, personal opinion differs. I see something in Grosjean, I'm bored of Kimi. Maybe the Enstone team see something in both their drivers too, understandably in regards to Kimi's performances through the year. They can see that if it weren't for an alternator failure, Grosjean would have had a win in the first half of the year, that 50% of his accidents were racing incidents or someone else's fault, that he brings exposure to the team, sponsorship, and a damn good attitude too. Keep him I say, hopefully he can still learn from Kimi... if he's still crashing next year, replace him half way through the season. A year and a half continuous development is more than adequate.

Perez was just as accident prone in the latter half of the season, far more aggressive. Grosjean has shown his ability, he's just a 'rough diamond' as they say, I don't see the need for the witch hunt.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:25 am 
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jammin78 wrote:
Yes, keep Grosjean and sack Kimi.

Yep, thats what I'd prefer to happen, but Kimi's far too good to be sacked, no reason for it. But just shows, personal opinion differs. I see something in Grosjean, I'm bored of Kimi. Maybe the Enstone team see something in both their drivers too, understandably in regards to Kimi's performances through the year. They can see that if it weren't for an alternator failure, Grosjean would have had a win in the first half of the year, that 50% of his accidents were racing incidents or someone else's fault, that he brings exposure to the team, sponsorship, and a damn good attitude too. Keep him I say, hopefully he can still learn from Kimi... if he's still crashing next year, replace him half way through the season. A year and a half continuous development is more than adequate.

Perez was just as accident prone in the latter half of the season, far more aggressive. Grosjean has shown his ability, he's just a 'rough diamond' as they say, I don't see the need for the witch hunt.



if it werent for "Renaults alternator failure" in Valencia, Vettel should have won by a mile. so your point is mute.

Also most of Grosjean's crashes, which was his own doing, really hampered Lotus financially, and they could have spend this for development but unfortunately just cost them a lot.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:43 am 
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I voted yes even though I could have strangled him after he not only took out my driver, Alonso, at Spa but came close to landing his car on his head which could have killed him. I wasn't impressed with him during his first start in F1 but I have seen moments of brilliance this year & I think that, if he can sort himself out, he could be a really good driver. He also has Kimi as a team mate that he can & should be learning from. Having said that, if next season sees him doing more of the same then I think that Lotus should get rid of him.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:44 am 
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dukieboy wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
Yes, keep Grosjean and sack Kimi.

Yep, thats what I'd prefer to happen, but Kimi's far too good to be sacked, no reason for it. But just shows, personal opinion differs. I see something in Grosjean, I'm bored of Kimi. Maybe the Enstone team see something in both their drivers too, understandably in regards to Kimi's performances through the year. They can see that if it weren't for an alternator failure, Grosjean would have had a win in the first half of the year, that 50% of his accidents were racing incidents or someone else's fault, that he brings exposure to the team, sponsorship, and a damn good attitude too. Keep him I say, hopefully he can still learn from Kimi... if he's still crashing next year, replace him half way through the season. A year and a half continuous development is more than adequate.

Perez was just as accident prone in the latter half of the season, far more aggressive. Grosjean has shown his ability, he's just a 'rough diamond' as they say, I don't see the need for the witch hunt.



if it werent for "Renaults alternator failure" in Valencia, Vettel should have won by a mile. so your point is mute.

Also most of Grosjean's crashes, which was his own doing, really hampered Lotus financially, and they could have spend this for development but unfortunately just cost them a lot.


So Grosjean would have been second then, so it's still a good finish and the point still stands. 3 podiums in a year, 4 if it wasn't for a failure, and a number of crashes. That could be Grosjean or Perez we're talking about... but one's the next big thing, the other should be kicked out of F1?

I honestly think a lot of the Grosjean hate is because he took out someone's fave driver or threatened to do better than Kimi at parts of the season (not overall ofcourse).

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:51 am 
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coulthards chin wrote:
RickM wrote:
coulthards chin wrote:
RickM wrote:
Heikki or Senna will be in his seat from 2013. The guy can't drive an F1 car. He's had his second chance and still blew it. Get rid of him.


What has Senna done to deserve a top seat? Other than qualifying consistently poorly and finishing on the fringes of the points a few times. He's not exactly incident free either.

I'd pick Sutil, Glock, Heikki, Kobayashi, Alguersuari or even Heidfeld above Bruno


Last time I checked, before Brazil Senna had only 1 retirement, and that was caused by Michael driving into him. Out of the available drivers, he's one of the best options, and has certainly improved a hell of a lot more this year than people give him credit for.


Maybe not retirements necessarily and the incidents haven't always been his fault. But the ones I can remember...

Australia - Collision with Massa
Malaysia - 1st lap hits Maldo
Barca - Taken out by Shumi
Valencia - Collision with Kobayashi
Silverstone - Big accident in Friday practice
Japan - Takes out Rosberg in turn 1
Abu Dhabi - Involved in 1st corner incident with Hulkenberg
Brazil - Over-ambitious into turn 4, Vettel turns in on him and he gets hit by Perez.

It's not to say I think Senna has been bad. he needs to sort his qualifying out but I think he deserves another season at Williams. I just don't think he has shown anything special to warrant a seat at any of the top teams.

Admittedly none of the other candidates have particularly either. Kobayashi has had flashes, while Heikki and Sutil have proven reliable but unspectacular.


Just to add to the list

China: First corner contact with Massa.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:54 am 
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jammin78 wrote:
dukieboy wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
Yes, keep Grosjean and sack Kimi.

Yep, thats what I'd prefer to happen, but Kimi's far too good to be sacked, no reason for it. But just shows, personal opinion differs. I see something in Grosjean, I'm bored of Kimi. Maybe the Enstone team see something in both their drivers too, understandably in regards to Kimi's performances through the year. They can see that if it weren't for an alternator failure, Grosjean would have had a win in the first half of the year, that 50% of his accidents were racing incidents or someone else's fault, that he brings exposure to the team, sponsorship, and a damn good attitude too. Keep him I say, hopefully he can still learn from Kimi... if he's still crashing next year, replace him half way through the season. A year and a half continuous development is more than adequate.

Perez was just as accident prone in the latter half of the season, far more aggressive. Grosjean has shown his ability, he's just a 'rough diamond' as they say, I don't see the need for the witch hunt.





if it werent for "Renaults alternator failure" in Valencia, Vettel should have won by a mile. so your point is mute.

Also most of Grosjean's crashes, which was his own doing, really hampered Lotus financially, and they could have spend this for development but unfortunately just cost them a lot.


So Grosjean would have been second then, so it's still a good finish and the point still stands. 3 podiums in a year, 4 if it wasn't for a failure, and a number of crashes. That could be Grosjean or Perez we're talking about... but one's the next big thing, the other should be kicked out of F1?

I honestly think a lot of the Grosjean hate is because he took out someone's fave driver or threatened to do better than Kimi at parts of the season (not overall ofcourse).



I think you're onto something there! So it narrows down the suspects (slightly because he has hit a few in his time lol)

Seriously he's good enough but should just calm down in the first few laps. Races can't be won in the first lap but they can be lost

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:07 pm 
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I am a team fan first, and also a Kimi fan. Thing is Grosjean had a second chance to prove himself... which im sure in the eyes of many, did try but unsuccessfully. Im just concerned firstly about the Team that's all.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:27 pm 
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Yes this is already his second chance.

Voted that he should be replaced but I don't mind. Whatever happens he makes Kimi look good and the team look bad.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:33 pm 
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Bring in KK!!!

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