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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:42 pm 
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One cannot help but notice that there are certain similarities and obvious outcome differences in the last races of the 2010 and 2012 F1 seasons. For the sake of discussion, we will look at this from the perspectives of Vettel and Alonso only

2010: Alonso went to the final race in Abi Dhabi with a 15-point lead over Vettel and (discounting Webber) needed to finish 4th or higher to win the Drivers' Championship. He qualified reasonably well in P3; Vettel was in P1 and except for a short period where Button had not changed tyres yet, remained so for the duration of the race. All Alonso and Ferrari had to do was ensure P4 or better but the pit stop, for which they had no one else but themselves to blame, was a disaster and effectively put paid to their chances.

2012: Vettel went into the final race in Brazil with a 13-point lead over Alonso and (if Alonso won) needed to finish 4th or higher to win the Drivers' Championship. He qualified OK in P4 but lost the advantage due to a poor start and Alonso's quick getaway. Alsonso eventually got to P2 and finsihed the race there. The collision with Senna and subsequent spin left Vettel at the back of the field in a damaged car but he managed to claw his way back to P6 and win the Drivers' Championship.

Whatever way you look at it, those are undisputable facts.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:45 pm 
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Not trying to be rude, but what are you wanting to discuss here?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:57 pm 
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Bit of a tangent but I have a problem with the way that 2010 Ferrari pit call is deemed to be obviously stupid.

It very quickly became clear it was a mistake, I'm not arguing with that. But at the moment the call had to be made it was not obvious what the right move was. The primary threat was (logically) deemed to be Webber, and in such a situation shadowing him would normally be the best bet. It was such a fine call that friends and I, and Brundle/Legard, were discussing what the right thing to do was, and when they brought FA in nobody was surprised... at first. I've seen any number of arguments as to why it was obviously the wrong call. Most are just hindsight but I'd argue that those who thought it was the wrong call immediately are no greater in number than those who thought it right, or thought it too close to call.

It was the wrong decision, but based on the data available at the moment that was not clear. Making Dyer the scapegoat was very poor form from Ferrari.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:44 pm 
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Lojik wrote:
Not trying to be rude, but what are you wanting to discuss here?


Nothing specific. Just pointing out facts, but what to make out of them is left to individuals.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:46 pm 
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Balibari wrote:
It was the wrong decision, but based on the data available at the moment that was not clear. Making Dyer the scapegoat was very poor form from Ferrari.

I'd go a step further. Who would have thought Alonso wouldn't be able to overtake Petrov of all people? Had you asked anyone before the race, they'd have said he'd be past in a lap or two. It was the right decision if you ask me. Nobody made a "mistake"; it was one of those things that can't be forseen.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:50 pm 
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Vettel/RBR did the right things under pressure. Alonso/Ferrari did the same but in the wrong year.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:51 pm 
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Always makes me wonder why Alonso struggled so much to get passed Petrov for so many laps. Surely there must of been at one point an opportunity. Even like the last few laps id be like a kamakazee trying to squeeze my way past. Even to the point on the last lap nudging him out the way!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:57 pm 
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spooky wrote:
Always makes me wonder why Alonso struggled so much to get passed Petrov for so many laps. Surely there must of been at one point an opportunity. Even like the last few laps id be like a kamakazee trying to squeeze my way past. Even to the point on the last lap nudging him out the way!


Abu Dhabi was a horrible track to overtake on pre DRS, and Alonso's Ferrari just didn't have the straight line speed to make the move without it.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:00 pm 
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Couple of things about the call in 2010

1> It was wrong to cover Webber - it was increasingly clear from the previous race runs Vettel had and the Q3 gap Vettel had in AD that he was the threat. Personally I pegged the chances of winning the WDC as Alonso 50% , Vettel 30% and Webber 20%

2> Another risk was Petrov or any other car going long without pitting and with longer gearing. In those days of no DRS , Abu Dhabi would have proved to be an obstacle to passing although a driver of Alonso s calibre should have been able to pull it off but I guess he didnt want to risk it


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:03 pm 
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The safety car in Abu Dhabi 2010 caused Rosberg, Petrov, etc, to pit very early for primes. It turned out to be a quick enough tire for them to have the gap to Alonso small enough to pass him when he pitted. In hindsight, if Ferrari didn't react after Webber pitted, Alonso could (I speculate) have opened enough of a gap to be ahead of the drivers he was stuck behind. Ferrari simply made the wrong call in the heat of the moment.

I liked the 2012 finale more, but the 2010 is a prime example of how anything can happen in Formula 1, how things can go wrong so quickly. 2012 gave us the performance of Vettel against all odds with a damaged car under immense pressure.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:07 pm 
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i read somewhere that Ferrari pitted Massa to cover Webber in 2010 on Alonso's orders but botched the pitstop so Alonso asked to pit to cover Webber, idealy they'd have had Massa in front of Webber and Alonso to shadow Vettel


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:14 pm 
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I have watched a replay of the 2010 Abu Dhabi race recently, and it's hard to say that Ferrari made the wrong call at the time. The softer Bridgestone tyres did seem to be degrading, and previously in the season the tyres typically got progressively worse as the laps went on. Given how teams were struggling on the softs while those who had switched to hards in the early safety car period were doing better, the call to pit Fernando to cover Webber seemed the right one. Then, quite unexpectedly, the soft tyres became better and the frontrunners were able to put in faster lap times and ensure they came out easily ahead of those who had pitted earlier. As Balibari pointed out earlier, it was grossly unfair to sack Dyer for this call.

2012 was quite different. Rain made the race a bit of a lottery and overtaking was easier given the nature of the track. Though Vettel's progress up the field was not a huge surprise, the rapidity with which he climbed from last to 5th, just behind Alonso, earns him a lot of credit in my eyes. Webber was struggling relative to him, in spite of having a car which wasn't hobbled.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:31 am 
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I think the major factor in 2010 was the fact that everyone was sure Alonso would overtake petrov...

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:04 am 
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As mentioned, anything can happen. In 2010 nobody thought Fernando pitting to cover Mark ws the wrong thing to do at the time; it simply became apparent as the race unfolded. Who would have anticipated being stuck behind Vitaly for so long?
In 2012 Sebastian found himself the victim of a midfield coming-together partly as a result of a cautious start. On another dat his race may have been over there and then. Thankfully for him it was not, he knuckled down and made up the places he needed to.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:48 pm 
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Usman wrote:
I think the major factor in 2010 was the fact that everyone was sure Alonso would overtake petrov...


But overtaking Petrov would not have been enough by a long chalk. They did not allow for Kubica, who was on a long first stint on a hard tyres and could have - and did - end up in front of Alonso. Even more importantly, there was also 4th placed Rosberg and the moment he passed the finish line, Alonso lost out because even with 10 points for P5, he would have had the same points as Vettel but with fewer wins.

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