planetf1.com

Why does this thread look like it's become a battle of Lewis and Jenson fans? If you can't play nicely, you'll lose this playground.

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I've run out of patience with tyre threads. There is an official one: USE IT.

Fat Albert wrote:
There’s another really important statistic missing, cost, reputedly, over the three years Button cost McLaren Mercedes $30m while Hamilton cost $70m!

So Hamilton cost $40m more and scored 15pts less! Anyone with even the minimum understanding of business can understand that the numbers don’t add up!

Yes 'Fat Albert' but the other fact of the matter is that Hamilton is a global superstar and brings much advertising and drives merchandise revenue wh the team is run a a business expenseich Button and Perez cannot bring.
That's the real reason red bull are considering Hamilton as it will add more interest the the Red Bull Advertising Machine and drive sales "The real reason Red bull are in F1" they do it as a tax write off, wake up dude.

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Both Canada 2011 and Brasil 2012 Lewis didn't finish. Both times taken out by a stupid mistake from the opposing driver. Ps China 2010 Lewis made 4 Pitstops opposed too JB's 2 pitstops and Lewis still managed too end up right behind him in 2nd.

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HAMILTON/ALONSO/RAIKONNEN/VETTEL

It's just a theory .Maybe it was a material defect at McLaren
Fact is anti roll bares are very stable. Hamilton did nothing to break it, with his driving.

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

I don't think he's a global superstar is he? You mean like David Beckham or Tiger Woods? He's a good driver, tad overrated and has just one slightly lucky WDC in six years trying, that's a global superstar?

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o·ver·rat·ed - overestimation of skills or abilities, anything that is given too much credit and hype.

This is nonsense nontheless. Nobody knows the exact salary of the drivers, only the teams & the drivers themselves.

And even if Lewis earned much more than Button, McLaren was willing to pay him even more in the future, so they must know he is/ would be worth it. They are the ones who see all aspects of them, somehow they must have been convinced Hamilton is more worth than any other driver at current grid , including Jenson Button

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

actually you both have no idea what you are talking about, you don't know how the part in question was designed, made, tested, where it was placed and what it was designed for. and more importantly what broke it. so stop speculating about it.

where did I say he did?

Besides that how do you know he didn't?

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

I love F1 and even appreciate Lewis Hamilton's talent but much less enamoured by sections of his fans (that is your sig) now, to pretty much everyone here you are the one coming accross as the fan with serious problems, i'm a button fan (Hamilton too)and frankly you are embarassing, you are quickly coming the most narrow minded blinkered fan on this forum.

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watched the FPs the qualy & the race. There was no incident, no off track moments, nothing

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

Points over 3 seasons are irrelevant really. Points each season are what matters.

I am a fan of both and probably favour Jenson as he is from my neck of the woods but i have no doubt that Lewis is the better of the two. That seems to be the general consensus of most people in F1 who know more about it than we possibly do

So he won his WDC by pure luck did he in all races across the season it was pure luck. He has beat every team mate in every season through out his career accept 2011, I bet that's is pure luck too in your eyes.

China 2010, there were 2 SC periods and Lewis did one of those pits under SC. The second one erased a 50 second difference between Button and Lewis to 3 seconds.

At Brasil the SC erased a 47 second difference between Button and Lewis, that is how Lewis could get back to contention. Lewis would be way back form Button and Hulk if it weren't for the SC.

Canada 2011 Lewis went for a disappearing gap and DNFed.

Just ignore him he clearly has a deluded agenda when it comes to anything Lewis Hamilton... He's bitter and more than likely jealous because Lewis Hamilton is a somebody and he is a nobody with a hate filled opinion.

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Vodafone Mclaren Mercedes

You know, god help poor nico if he matches or god forbid, beats, Lewis next year. The hamiltonites will hang, draw and quarter him.

Yep.. That and they will still find time to bash Jenson.

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Signature created by Adaemus

Lol calm down baby skates, You said pure luck, I said slightly lucky, anyway some would say Massa deserved the 2008 WDC due to the Ferrari parts on the macca and his mate Glock moving over but I'm happy with slightly lucky Made a right fist of 2007 though eh..

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o·ver·rat·ed - overestimation of skills or abilities, anything that is given too much credit and hype.

Bitter and jealous card, ouch

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o·ver·rat·ed - overestimation of skills or abilities, anything that is given too much credit and hype.

Fat Albert has got his facts a bit wrong bless him.

Lewis signed a 5 year contract after 2007 worth £70m

Jenson signed a 3 year contract worth £30m in 2010

so this Jenson scoring more points and is paid £40m less is funny

so it works out Lewis was paid £6m more than Jenson over 3 years

bit hypocritical of you to say that Massa deserved the 2008 title & should have won if not for certain circumstances, but you are quick to jump on people when they say Hamilton would have beat button if not for certain circumstances

I think Jenson is the king of changing conditions, full wet he is not as strong as a wet-dry or drying track. Korea 2010 in the full wet he had a really bad performance. Canada 2012 when it was wet he was going ok, but only when it became to dry did his pace pick up and he sored through the field. He also struggled relative to Hamilton in Malaysia this year when it was full wet.

But there is no doubt when a call is to be made of what tyre to be on, he is the man. He has won 8 races for Mclaren, 5 in changing conditions. Unfortunately only 88% of races have any rain, so its hard to challenge for a title when you only really excel in races that have rain. Nearly 50% of his career wins are the same (7/15).

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http://www.racefan.co.uk

Modern F1 isn't like that. You can't drive like a lunatic and break all the parts. It's unimaginably high tech.

The flip side? The flip side is proof that it was more likely to happen to Button than Hamilton.

Look at the sentence I wrote.

Basically you are trying to drag the argument away from any issue of mechanical troubles.

By hook or by crook.

Do you really not think I can see what you're doing?

Agreed, modern F1 is a completely different game. The car has over 1,000 sensors feeding information back every tenth of a second to the pit wall. From gearbox oil temperature, suspension loading forces, tyre temperature etc etc.

The good old days they did not have anything close to that, so it was down to the driver to manage all of those things "blindly" or using his intuition.

The example you give Albert, also has nothing to do with the point you made. That is down to racecraft (positioning of your car in a defensive way) and is not related to "mechanic sympathy".

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http://www.racefan.co.uk

As much fun as I had debating the merits of Hamilton vs. Button over the past few years...now all is said and done, quite frankly I am just sad to see the best team pairing on the grid going their separate ways.

W

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Jenson Button
Kimi Raikkonen
Romain Grosjean
Nico Hulkenburg

I didn't say that, I said he was slightly lucky, I pointed out what some others had said, personally I was happy with slightly lucky, read back Still, thanks for pointing that out if it's how it appeared, I don't want to come across as a tinfoil chump/chumpette, Alonso's my man and he was beaten, no amount of coulda shoulda woulda whiny bollocks alters that so I simply STFU and take it on the chin, unlike the Hamfoils who keep trying to alter their mans points total

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o·ver·rat·ed - overestimation of skills or abilities, anything that is given too much credit and hype.

http://sport.uk.msn.com/f1/horner-hamil ... en#scptih$

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... fight.html

http://www.f1reader.com/news/alonso-or- ... ttel-63558

I guess reading these articles by Lewis's peers and competitors they are more impressed with Lewis's Speed, qualifying , poles , Wins , front row starts , adaptability, and sheer persistence than the extra twenty odd points that Jenson was gifted by Lewis's Dnf's .

Red Bull and the other teams , know exactly what they are looking at when they watch Lewis and believe me unlike the naive Jensonites they are not fooled by those few points that Jenson managed to salvage from a season best forgotten .

You guys are forgetting the most important stat...

Episodes of Tooned completed:

JB 12 Lewis 11

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What a shame, I really enjoyed the last three years, watching two quality drivers at McLaren. Too bad some fans only want to go down the road of "my driver is better than your driver, and you're a wanker if you don't believe me".

It's been the strongest driver pairing for years, something McLaren is expected to have but now will be weakened (for the time being)

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Multi 21 or Catch 22?!

It ain't hating just 'cause it's not love

In your face HamI!!!! You loose!!!

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KIMI: Yeah,Winning feels good.But I am not the type of guy to jump up and down and rub it in everyone's face.

CRUX of the thread
All the Button fans are hanging on to total points in 3 season and all the Hami fans are hanging on to DNFs...

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KIMI: Yeah,Winning feels good.But I am not the type of guy to jump up and down and rub it in everyone's face.

Love the fact this argument is still going, as a JB/LH fan I can say both drivers deserve race seats but both drivers at times could of got the sack.

People say the points dont show the whole story of this season - Nor last. In fact at times Button was more unlucky last season compared to Lewis. It was Lewis's poor overtaking and mistakes that cost him.

Button was on course to win Monaco but Vettel was saved by a safety car due to the slower cars crashing. Button also didnt do a great job in Quali last season and still raced up positions. Remember silverstone for Button as well? Button had DNFs which were totally out of his power. Button last season could have "Wiped the floor" with Lewis like some are saying Lewis did to Button this year. Button probably lost about 60-75 points last season. Lewis probably lost the same this season.

What does that mean?

End of the story is Lewis still has much to learn, we have seen this with Over taking - Remember Buttons overtake on MSC last season where Lewis struggled lap after lap - Button made it look like clock work. Remember Australia 2012 this year Button got a better start on Lewis and Lewis couldnt match Buttons pace - whats the excuse there?

I love both drivers, both have their weaknesses, Mclaren have lost out because both drivers were the perfect pair - even Horner admitted it. People can say Mclaren need a different driver fast like Lewis but we saw that in 2007 and Mclaren won NOTHING. Both drivers got emotionally involved instead of just racing. Now as a result no team wants two fast drivers, they want two drivers capable of winning races - end of. Button and Lewis still can win races as shown this year.

And unlike many people, Button is man enough to admit that Lewis is the fastest team mate he has ever had and its hard to beat him unless he makes a mistake.

So thats how Jb won Canada 2011 because he was lucky with the Sc and the tyres right?

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HAMILTON/ALONSO/RAIKONNEN/VETTEL

You don't need to spin off or go off tracks to do damage. Things like kerbs can do damage. Vet in Germany or Alonso in Monza didn't need to go off track or have an incident.

And did you see 100% of every lap?

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

I think that this has been a really interesting pairing. When Jenson first joined McLaren, I did think that Lewis would absolutely school him. That didn't happen for all sorts of different reasons but it has been interesting to watch especially as they are such different drivers. It will be interesting to see what they both do next year in different teams.

Don't you think you are a bit hard on Lewis? i mean in 2007 the highly rated Alonso couldn't seal the WDC as well and Lewis was only a rookie who you would expect to make mistakes, and wouldn't expect to be able to match a 2 time WDC.

2008 he made some mistakes but also there was some car/team problems and he won the WDC in the end, Massa could have won it if not for Singapore and it is a shame that this affected the WDC but that is an irrelevant what if situation now and it was the same event for both drivers so it can be said for them both it was a fair situation. you are also forgetting that Massa beat Kimi that year as well