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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:27 am 
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"He seems to have problems if he doesn't win,"

"When he (Alonso) doesn't win, then he develops incredible political skills," Marko added at a celebratory event in Graz, Austria.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/alons ... ses-marko/


Kinda agree. Tbh, he been trying very hard to demerit vettel 's achievement.

In opposite, he been trying to playing down his car to the likes of midfielder and level up his achievement.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:31 am 
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tbh Red Bull arent exactly the best losers either.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:33 am 
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Khazrak134 wrote:
tbh Red Bull arent exactly the best losers either.



at least they nvr undermine alonso 's achievement


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:35 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:38 am 
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Marko really can't talk. In his mind the safety car in Valencia was an attempt to sabotage rbr or something of the like.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:40 am 
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NvrDieYoung wrote:
Khazrak134 wrote:
tbh Red Bull arent exactly the best losers either.



at least they nvr undermine alonso 's achievement


wasnt it Horner who said "Mclaren didnt win, Red Bull lost" after the Australian GP? its not Ferrari, but if that isnt undermining then idk what is.

Ferrari nvr undermined Vettel's achievements either. They were just looking into the possibility of an Illegal move, and why shouldnt they? why shouldnt any one?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:52 am 
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Khazrak134 wrote:
NvrDieYoung wrote:
Khazrak134 wrote:
tbh Red Bull arent exactly the best losers either.



at least they nvr undermine alonso 's achievement


wasnt it Horner who said "Mclaren didnt win, Red Bull lost" after the Australian GP? its not Ferrari, but if that isnt undermining then idk what is.

Ferrari nvr undermined Vettel's achievements either. They were just looking into the possibility of an Illegal move, and why shouldnt they? why shouldnt any one?


wasnt referring to flaggate at all.......


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:54 am 
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I dont see any difference in what Marko and Alonso are doing. Both are just blowing off steam. I dont think you should take their words literaly. In the heat of the moment they do tend to talk crap. Everyone does

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:02 am 
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Marko is at it again. Spewing trash. Throughout the entire Episode about the illegal/legal overtake. Ferrari were doing the talking. The media were the one who said "it is believed" that Alonso was behind the move. Crap. There is no such evidence.

Marko is not the best looser too. Remember Valencia and then Turkey when Vettel crashed into Webber?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:11 am 
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Seb isn't a great loser either... He may not be as political as Alonso, but he's younger - give him time...

Both display unattractive qualities when going through difficult times. It seems to be a developing trend amongst F1 drivers?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:22 am 
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LKS1 wrote:
Seb isn't a great loser either... He may not be as political as Alonso, but he's younger - give him time...

Both display unattractive qualities when going through difficult times. It seems to be a developing trend amongst F1 drivers?


i've nvr come across to any driver as political as Fernando....


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:46 am 
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I have to agree that Alonso does not know how to handle not winning or having things his own way. He makes those comments about "100% certainities" probably because he believes in them himself but does not know what to say when his expectations do not come to pass.

Vettel is more of a realist and while he (like anyone else) expresses disappointment when not winning, IMO he is mentally more equipped to face the situation. 2012 is a good example, holding his cool and coming back following a comparatively lacklustre first half of the season.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:59 am 
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Marko is right. Alonso has demonstrated time and time again that he doesn't cope well when things aren't going his way.

In 2006 after Schumacher took the WDC lead at China he accused his Renault team of not wanting him to win the WDC and only wanting the WCC because he was off to McLaren the following year.

In 2007 at the Hungarian GP he attempted to blackmail Dennis into making him the #1 driver at McLaren and when Dennis refused he went to the FIA with emails regarding the Ferrari data.

Since Vettel took the WDC lead in 2012 we've had him talk about racing Newey and making implications that Hamilton is better than Vettel. When Vettel actually does win a furore erupts over a green flag that was never in doubt, with Alonso posting the message on twitter: "I don't believe in miracles, but......" and Ferrari then clarifying the matter with the FIA.

Just because Marko himself behaves badly at times and makes statements that could be regarded as being a sore loser doesn't mean that what he's saying here is inaccurate.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:00 am 
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NvrDieYoung wrote:
i've nvr come across to any driver as political as Fernando....
LoL

Same could be said about some forumers...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:01 am 
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kai_ wrote:
Marko is right. Alonso has demonstrated time and time again that he doesn't cope well when things aren't going his way.

In 2006 after Schumacher took the WDC lead at China he accused his Renault team of not wanting him to win the WDC and only wanting the WCC because he was off to McLaren the following year.

In 2007 at the Hungarian GP he attempted to blackmail Dennis into making him the #1 driver at McLaren and when Dennis refused he went to the FIA with emails regarding the Ferrari data.

Since Vettel took the WDC lead in 2012 we've had him talk about racing Newey and making implications that Hamilton is better than Vettel. When Vettel actually does win a furore erupts over a green flag that was never in doubt, with Alonso posting the message on twitter: "I don't believe in miracles, but......" and Ferrari then clarifying the matter with the FIA.

Just because Marko himself behaves badly at times and makes statements that could be regarded as being a sore loser doesn't mean that what he's saying here is inaccurate.



:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: couldn't have said it better Kai.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:01 am 
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This coming from someone who has vettel on his side :P..
That being said yes Alonso shouldn't crap on vettels wins.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:01 am 
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NvrDieYoung wrote:
"He seems to have problems if he doesn't win,"

"When he (Alonso) doesn't win, then he develops incredible political skills," Marko added at a celebratory event in Graz, Austria.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/alons ... ses-marko/


Kinda agree. Tbh, he been trying very hard to demerit vettel 's achievement.

In opposite, he been trying to playing down his car to the likes of midfielder and level up his achievement.

Agreed.

I have been saying all year that the Ferrari is a really good race car, capable of winning. What hurt them was Qualifying, also doesnt help Ferrari that Massa went through a huge bad phase. And as a result Alonso was the benchmark, even though when Massa started to perform again he actually at times did a better job. Meaning what? that the Ferrari was capable of doing a better job then what Alonso was doing?

If you work on the logic of that, then Alonso was not getting the max out of the Ferrari. In fact when Massa does a better job you dont hear Alonso say "Max" yet when Alonso does the better job its "Max out of the car".

Alonso, Vettel are both drivers that hate to lose and we have seen it this season. I also remember when Vettel had to stop the car in Quali, as a result he got a penalty because of his fuel. Watching the behind the scenes stuff Ferrari was really interested in the penalty or what was going on. Dom was seen looking at the letter and talking at distance to Alonso, while Alonso was sitting on the chair pretending to be laid back and uninterested. I think of Alonso like I think of Simon Cowell, a guy who knows how to play the cameras. Sometimes his emotions come through even after all his control.

Still I have huge respect for these guys, every F1 driver wants to win and do well but some guys do "pretend" or play the cameras.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:06 am 
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And Vettel handles losing so well doesn't he...

Most drivers react to losing badly. Button and Kimi are the only ones who seem to take it on the chin, though I remember Button being pretty off when he fell out of contention in Korea 2010, though still not as petulant as others.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:10 am 
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kai_ wrote:
Marko is right. Alonso has demonstrated time and time again that he doesn't cope well when things aren't going his way.

In 2006 after Schumacher took the WDC lead at China he accused his Renault team of not wanting him to win the WDC and only wanting the WCC because he was off to McLaren the following year.

In 2007 at the Hungarian GP he attempted to blackmail Dennis into making him the #1 driver at McLaren and when Dennis refused he went to the FIA with emails regarding the Ferrari data.

Since Vettel took the WDC lead in 2012 we've had him talk about racing Newey and making implications that Hamilton is better than Vettel. When Vettel actually does win a furore erupts over a green flag that was never in doubt, with Alonso posting the message on twitter: "I don't believe in miracles, but......" and Ferrari then clarifying the matter with the FIA.

Just because Marko himself behaves badly at times and makes statements that could be regarded as being a sore loser doesn't mean that what he's saying here is inaccurate.

Whilst I agree with everything else, I though Ron went to the FIA when Alonso tried to blackmail him? Edit - sorry, I realise too late you meant Ron (not Alonso) went to the FIA with the info.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:13 am 
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Pot and kettle as usual.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:15 am 
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LKS1 wrote:
kai_ wrote:
Marko is right. Alonso has demonstrated time and time again that he doesn't cope well when things aren't going his way.

In 2006 after Schumacher took the WDC lead at China he accused his Renault team of not wanting him to win the WDC and only wanting the WCC because he was off to McLaren the following year.

In 2007 at the Hungarian GP he attempted to blackmail Dennis into making him the #1 driver at McLaren and when Dennis refused he went to the FIA with emails regarding the Ferrari data.

Since Vettel took the WDC lead in 2012 we've had him talk about racing Newey and making implications that Hamilton is better than Vettel. When Vettel actually does win a furore erupts over a green flag that was never in doubt, with Alonso posting the message on twitter: "I don't believe in miracles, but......" and Ferrari then clarifying the matter with the FIA.

Just because Marko himself behaves badly at times and makes statements that could be regarded as being a sore loser doesn't mean that what he's saying here is inaccurate.

Whilst I agree with everything else, I though Ron went to the FIA when Alonso tried to blackmail him? Edit - sorry, I realise too late you meant Ron (not Alonso) went to the FIA with the info.

No, I did mean Alonso.

My understanding of how that played out is that Dennis rang Mosley after Alonso had stormed out and relayed the conversation but said to Mosley that there was nothing in it. Meanwhile, two weeks prior Alonso had revealed the emails to Briatore, who had in turn told his buddy Ecclestone about them. After he stormed out Alonso went back to Briatore who went back to Ecclestone who went to Mosley and said, "Well actually old friend there's some truth in this........".

Mosley believed that Dennis knew all along and had been lying to him, hence why their already tense relationship reached breaking point.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:19 am 
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Teddy007 wrote:
NvrDieYoung wrote:
"He seems to have problems if he doesn't win,"

"When he (Alonso) doesn't win, then he develops incredible political skills," Marko added at a celebratory event in Graz, Austria.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/alons ... ses-marko/


Kinda agree. Tbh, he been trying very hard to demerit vettel 's achievement.

In opposite, he been trying to playing down his car to the likes of midfielder and level up his achievement.

Agreed.

I have been saying all year that the Ferrari is a really good race car, capable of winning. What hurt them was Qualifying, also doesnt help Ferrari that Massa went through a huge bad phase. And as a result Alonso was the benchmark, even though when Massa started to perform again he actually at times did a better job. Meaning what? that the Ferrari was capable of doing a better job then what Alonso was doing?

If you work on the logic of that, then Alonso was not getting the max out of the Ferrari. In fact when Massa does a better job you dont hear Alonso say "Max" yet when Alonso does the better job its "Max out of the car".

Alonso, Vettel are both drivers that hate to lose and we have seen it this season. I also remember when Vettel had to stop the car in Quali, as a result he got a penalty because of his fuel. Watching the behind the scenes stuff Ferrari was really interested in the penalty or what was going on. Dom was seen looking at the letter and talking at distance to Alonso, while Alonso was sitting on the chair pretending to be laid back and uninterested. I think of Alonso like I think of Simon Cowell, a guy who knows how to play the cameras. Sometimes his emotions come through even after all his control.

Still I have huge respect for these guys, every F1 driver wants to win and do well but some guys do "pretend" or play the cameras.

Quite. As you have pointed out, the Ferrari (in race trim) was not a 'bad' car. It was rarely the best, but Massa having to move over and/or defend for Alonso in a few races (not to mention taking a 5 grid place quali penalty...) shows that Alonso wasn't a superhero this season - as proclaimed by many.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:25 am 
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LKS1 wrote:
(...) but Massa having to move over and/or defend for Alonso in a few races (not to mention taking a 5 grid place quali penalty...) shows that Alonso wasn't a superhero this season - as proclaimed by many.
So Massa is a slow driver after all? Alonso is not the superhero, Alonso is the villain, don't you know?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:27 am 
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kai_ wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
kai_ wrote:
Marko is right. Alonso has demonstrated time and time again that he doesn't cope well when things aren't going his way.

In 2006 after Schumacher took the WDC lead at China he accused his Renault team of not wanting him to win the WDC and only wanting the WCC because he was off to McLaren the following year.

In 2007 at the Hungarian GP he attempted to blackmail Dennis into making him the #1 driver at McLaren and when Dennis refused he went to the FIA with emails regarding the Ferrari data.

Since Vettel took the WDC lead in 2012 we've had him talk about racing Newey and making implications that Hamilton is better than Vettel. When Vettel actually does win a furore erupts over a green flag that was never in doubt, with Alonso posting the message on twitter: "I don't believe in miracles, but......" and Ferrari then clarifying the matter with the FIA.

Just because Marko himself behaves badly at times and makes statements that could be regarded as being a sore loser doesn't mean that what he's saying here is inaccurate.

Whilst I agree with everything else, I though Ron went to the FIA when Alonso tried to blackmail him? Edit - sorry, I realise too late you meant Ron (not Alonso) went to the FIA with the info.

No, I did mean Alonso.

My understanding of how that played out is that Dennis rang Mosley after Alonso had stormed out and relayed the conversation but said to Mosley that there was nothing in it. Meanwhile, two weeks prior Alonso had revealed the emails to Briatore, who had in turn told his buddy Ecclestone about them. After he stormed out Alonso went back to Briatore who went back to Ecclestone who went to Mosley and said, "Well actually old friend there's some truth in this........".

Mosley believed that Dennis knew all along and had been lying to him, hence why their already tense relationship reached breaking point.

First time I've heard that! As an ordinary F1 fan, I've no inside knowledge so have to go with the info provided, but it always seemed odd that Ron would 'phone the FIA to admit they had stolen info just 'cos Alonso had demanded no. 1 status on the back of knowing this.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:31 am 
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LKS1 wrote:
First time I've heard that! As an ordinary F1 fan, I've no inside knowledge so have to go with the info provided, but it always seemed odd that Ron would 'phone the FIA to admit they had stolen info just 'cos Alonso had demanded no. 1 status on the back of knowing this.
Yes, somebody should rewrite History for their millions because it seems there's still a lot of misinformation going round...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:33 am 
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chican wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
(...) but Massa having to move over and/or defend for Alonso in a few races (not to mention taking a 5 grid place quali penalty...) shows that Alonso wasn't a superhero this season - as proclaimed by many.
So Massa is a slow driver after all? Alonso is not the superhero, Alonso is the villain, don't you know?

Massa has been v slow/bad for most of the last couple of seasons. Much as I like Massa, I'd have to admit this.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it), he drove better than Alonso for the last couple of races.

He's always been inconsistent - but it doesn't alter my point that Alonso wasn't the Superhero some proclaim if he needed Massa to take a grid place penalty/move over/defend.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:36 am 
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Zekenwolf wrote:
I have to agree that Alonso does not know how to handle not winning or having things his own way. He makes those comments about "100% certainities" probably because he believes in them himself but does not know what to say when his expectations do not come to pass.

Vettel is more of a realist and while he (like anyone else) expresses disappointment when not winning, IMO he is mentally more equipped to face the situation. 2012 is a food example, holding his cool and coming back following a comparatively lacklustre first half of the season.

A food example! Damn auto correct.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:37 am 
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chican wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
First time I've heard that! As an ordinary F1 fan, I've no inside knowledge so have to go with the info provided, but it always seemed odd that Ron would 'phone the FIA to admit they had stolen info just 'cos Alonso had demanded no. 1 status on the back of knowing this.
Yes, somebody should rewrite History for their millions because it seems there's still a lot of misinformation going round...

Regardless, nobody is denying that Alonso tried to blackmail Dennis. Pretty appalling behaviour in anyone's book - just to get no. 1 status 'cos he wasn't showing clear superiority over his team mate.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:44 am 
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LKS1 wrote:
kai_ wrote:
No, I did mean Alonso.

My understanding of how that played out is that Dennis rang Mosley after Alonso had stormed out and relayed the conversation but said to Mosley that there was nothing in it. Meanwhile, two weeks prior Alonso had revealed the emails to Briatore, who had in turn told his buddy Ecclestone about them. After he stormed out Alonso went back to Briatore who went back to Ecclestone who went to Mosley and said, "Well actually old friend there's some truth in this........".

Mosley believed that Dennis knew all along and had been lying to him, hence why their already tense relationship reached breaking point.

First time I've heard that! As an ordinary F1 fan, I've no inside knowledge so have to go with the info provided, but it always seemed odd that Ron would 'phone the FIA to admit they had stolen info just 'cos Alonso had demanded no. 1 status on the back of knowing this.


I think most of that is available publically now. Tom Bower's book, No Angel, on Bernie Ecclestone confirmed a few elements/filled in a few gaps.

EDIT: mucked up quoting nest.

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Last edited by Jo_ on Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:56 am 
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NvrDieYoung wrote:
i've nvr come across to any driver as political as Fernando....

Are ya nuts?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:59 am 
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This is rich coming from Marko :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:02 am 
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If you keep winning all the time it's easy to be gracious.
If you keep getting pipped at the post it's easy to be a sore loser.

Relatively speaking Red Bull seem no better at being gracious than Ferrari are at losing, and it seems the former should be easier than the latter.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:04 am 
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NvrDieYoung wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
Seb isn't a great loser either... He may not be as political as Alonso, but he's younger - give him time...

Both display unattractive qualities when going through difficult times. It seems to be a developing trend amongst F1 drivers?


i've nvr come across to any driver as political as Fernando....

I can only assume you mean Spanish drivers of the modern era?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:09 am 
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and here is 'the answer' from a red corner :)

Quote:
Fernando Alonso was “undoubtedly” the best driver of the 2012 season, according to fellow Spaniard and Ferrari test driver Marc Gene.

“The ease with which Vettel has won his titles is abnormal,” the former Minardi driver is quoted by EFE news agency.

“For me the best driver this year was undoubtedly Fernando, getting thirteen out of twenty podiums.”

In contrast, Red Bull’s German Vettel – who beat his Spanish adversary to the championship by 3 points – was on the podium after 10 of this year’s 20 races.


http://www.inautonews.com/ease-of-vette ... LyIbKxOP41


don't remember them complaining about abnormal ease of winning in first half of '00s :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:17 am 
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Marko... the king of mind games


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:25 am 
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"When he (Alonso) doesn't win, then he develops incredible political skills," Marko added at a celebratory event in Graz, Austria.



For once I agree with Marko.

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Last edited by santa baby on Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:51 am 
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I actually agree with him

Fernando should have accepted that he lost to a better TEAM


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:28 pm 
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Rather be a sore loser than be like the poor winners at RBR


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:34 pm 
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No one within f1 takes losing well, especially the top teams


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:57 pm 
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NvrDieYoung wrote:
"He seems to have problems if he doesn't win,"

"When he (Alonso) doesn't win, then he develops incredible political skills," Marko added at a celebratory event in Graz, Austria.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/alons ... ses-marko/


Kinda agree. Tbh, he been trying very hard to demerit vettel 's achievement.

In opposite, he been trying to playing down his car to the likes of midfielder and level up his achievement.



He is 100% right.... you may not like Marko. but he is right. Alonso is a BAD loser


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