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If given a choice, should Hulk drive in 2014 with:-
A. Ferrari 30%  30%  [ 18 ]
B. Red Bull 60%  60%  [ 36 ]
C. Sauber 10%  10%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 60
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:37 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
Again, just because they don't personally get along doesn't mean Dr Marko doesn't know that Mark plays a pivotal role. If you have an equation that keeps giving you the result you want, you don't want to go changing the formula without really good reason. Mark's occasional selfishness must not outweigh the positives he brings. Further, having power doesn't mean you automatically dismiss the opinions of others. Any good leadership is a back and forth conversation, where you listen to and evaluate the opinions of those below you. If Adrian and Christian say "we need Mark," it makes sense to keep him regardless of one's personal relationship with Mark.


If it's giving a result he wants and he wants to keep Webber why does he say every year that Webber won't be driving next year. Only for Horner to start negotiations with webber and resigning him EVERY year.

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I don't dispute that Marko appears to shoot his mouth off. However, if Mateschitz had a problem with what he was doing, surely Marko would have been curtailed by now. I can't imagine Marko having the audacity to tell a Toro Rosso driver off over getting in Vettel's way during a practice session if he didn't have some authority. Horner and Newey both have to maintain a public face and team harmony, but Marko is not constrained by that. There's been a few interesting interviews with Horner, Newey and Vettel (not necessarily together) in which they say that Marko is very direct with all of them. Vettel in particular has said that Marko is very hard on him and the first one to tell him if he's done something wrong. If Marko had no clout or influence then his opinion would be a complete irrelevance.


Don't forget when it came to Alqy he was still on the RB young drivers program that Marko does run. It wasn't anything to do with audacity he went into a garage and gave a driver he has charge over a bollocking.

Just because he's direct with them doesn't mean they take any heed. Basically what I am saying is ultimately Horner and Newey run the show. If they disagree with Marko he won't get his way.

DM has shown in the past he sideas with Horner and Newey, like when DM personally talked with Webber to make him stay. When it's pretty obvious Marko wants him out.

Marko never says Webber won't be driving for them next year. He also never says he wants him out. He says Webber must improve, or that he's made mistakes. That's just putting pressure on him to conform and do what he wants. A warning shot.

Do you have any examples of Marko not "getting what he wants" or the team going against his advice? He doesn't lobby for things publicly so I don't know how you could.

You don't see RBR doing home runs to honor Christian and Adrian in their hometowns do you? The team also gets a lot of flack whenever Marko opens his mouth, surely if Christian had ultimate control he'd shut him up or send him packing? Adrian is busy enough doing the car, do you think he has time for liaising between the team and the check book? I don't. I think he tells Christian and HM what he wants and they get it for him. Marko put the team together, he isn't just some crazy old man who spouts nonsense and holds Seb's hand.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:02 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
Marko never says Webber won't be driving for them next year. He also never says he wants him out. He says Webber must improve, or that he's made mistakes. That's just putting pressure on him to conform and do what he wants. A warning shot.

Do you have any examples of Marko not "getting what he wants" or the team going against his advice? He doesn't lobby for things publicly so I don't know how you could.

You don't see RBR doing home runs to honor Christian and Adrian in their hometowns do you? The team also gets a lot of flack whenever Marko opens his mouth, surely if Christian had ultimate control he'd shut him up or send him packing? Adrian is busy enough doing the car, do you think he has time for liaising between the team and the check book? I don't. I think he tells Christian and HM what he wants and they get it for him. Marko put the team together, he isn't just some crazy old man who spouts nonsense and holds Seb's hand.


I posted a link earlier on of Marko once again shooting his mouth off about Webber not driving in 2012.

As for the not getting what he wants. How about the #1 status for Seb?

As for getting the team together, Arden already had ties to Red Bull and as you know a lot of the guys are there from the Stewart Jag days. In another thread Coulthard gets the credit for Newey.

Newey didn't get a street run, He got given a car instead.

I also didn't say Christian has Ultimate control. Just he runs the team. Ultimate control goes to DM of course. Of Course Marko has his ear but like I said it's horner and Newey that make the decisions.

Who actually runs the team?

If he is so influential in the team, how come he does not appear in things like the Red Bull Website? Can you give one example of his supposed managerial clout? Because all I can see is a team ran by Horner and Newey.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:30 pm 
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Johnston wrote:

I posted a link earlier on of Marko once again shooting his mouth off about Webber not driving in 2012.

As for the not getting what he wants. How about the #1 status for Seb?

As for getting the team together, Arden already had ties to Red Bull and as you know a lot of the guys are there from the Stewart Jag days. In another thread Coulthard gets the credit for Newey.

Newey didn't get a street run, He got given a car instead.

I also didn't say Christian has Ultimate control. Just he runs the team. Ultimate control goes to DM of course. Of Course Marko has his ear but like I said it's horner and Newey that make the decisions.

Who actually runs the team?

If he is so influential in the team, how come he does not appear in things like the Red Bull Website? Can you give one example of his supposed managerial clout? Because all I can see is a team ran by Horner and Newey.

I don't see any links posted by you to anything, in this thread. So, again, link to quote from HM saying Mark Webber won't be driving for RBR. Not implying it by talking about interest in other drivers in the future, actually saying Mark is out, or that he expressly wants him out.

Seb DOES get #1 status when Mark is out of the championship. Prior to that point, Marko talks about the drivers getting equal treatment.

Red Bull has ties to everything, Christian wasn't picked out of a hat, and neither was David. David is given credit for helping to convince Adrian to join, not for wanting to recruit him in the first place. We don't know whose idea it was.

If DM has ultimate control, why isn't HE on the website? :lol: Who they choose to profile on their website has nothing to do with anything.

Can you give examples of Christian or Adrian flexing managerial clout either? All they ever say about any decisions made in the team is "we".

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:04 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
I don't see any links posted by you to anything, in this thread. So, again, link to quote from HM saying Mark Webber won't be driving for RBR. Not implying it by talking about interest in other drivers in the future, actually saying Mark is out, or that he expressly wants him out.

Seb DOES get #1 status when Mark is out of the championship. Prior to that point, Marko talks about the drivers getting equal treatment.

Red Bull has ties to everything, Christian wasn't picked out of a hat, and neither was David. David is given credit for helping to convince Adrian to join, not for wanting to recruit him in the first place. We don't know whose idea it was.

If DM has ultimate control, why isn't HE on the website? :lol: Who they choose to profile on their website has nothing to do with anything.

Can you give examples of Christian or Adrian flexing managerial clout either? All they ever say about any decisions made in the team is "we".



Christian and Adrians "Clout" ? every time They open talks with Webber, FOTA or the FIA . Thats all Horner and Newey not Marko.


It's not the link I was looking for. The one I had the other day (The one I thought I'd posted was a year older)

http://www.foxsports.com.au/motor-sport ... 6105738997

Horner saying the opposite in reply http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=co ... Itemid=157

Horner talking to Weber "Behind closed doors" , does that sound like Marko would be invited?

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2641 ... sed-doors/

Plus all the while Marko criticises Webber Dietrich is always complimenting him.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:53 pm 
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Sounds like Marko is fairy cakes talking Ferrari.

Ferrari are ofc looking for a Massa replacement in 2014, and Sauber is thought to be their support team (with the exception of Perez lol).

My guess is Hulkenberg will do 1 year with Sauber before going to Ferrari with Bianchi taking his seat at Sauber.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:59 pm 
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Infidelity wrote:
Sounds like Marko is fairy cakes talking Ferrari.

Ferrari are ofc looking for a Massa replacement in 2014, and Sauber is thought to be their support team (with the exception of Perez lol).

My guess is Hulkenberg will do 1 year with Sauber before going to Ferrari with Bianchi taking his seat at Sauber.


You got to imagine how nuts we go making assumptions. You have to imagine the plight of these drivers, where they try to see a year ahead as to where they should be headed, other than also being competitive through the season.

I'm sure drivers like Bianchi & Senna & hopefuls such as Sutil must be getting regular headaches regarding their future for 2013, forget about 2014.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:12 am 
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Johnston wrote:
Christian and Adrians "Clout" ? every time They open talks with Webber, FOTA or the FIA . Thats all Horner and Newey not Marko.
It's not the link I was looking for. The one I had the other day (The one I thought I'd posted was a year older)
http://www.foxsports.com.au/motor-sport ... 6105738997
Horner saying the opposite in reply http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=co ... Itemid=157
Horner talking to Weber "Behind closed doors" , does that sound like Marko would be invited?
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2641 ... sed-doors/
Plus all the while Marko criticises Webber Dietrich is always complimenting him.

Firstly RBR is not part of FOTA. Second, how do you know who from the team goes to FIA meetings or negotiates with Webber, or who authorizes offers and concessions, or who instructs that representative to work toward what interests? Nobody outside the team and the driver's management does in the case of driver negotiations, and nobody outside the pretty secretive FIA meetings, the technical working groups for example, knows the other.

Your first link says Marko thinks Webber was going to retire. That doesn't mean he wanted to kick him out. Your second link didn't work.

I remember exactly when Christian gave the "behind closed doors" quote. He was asked on the BBC Forum (or post race prior to Forum) why Mark didn't heed his call to maintain the gap, and what the consequences of that would be. Saying he'd speak to him behind closed doors just means he wasn't prepared to slap him around in public, to the media. And telling a driver he needs to pay attention to the team's call is an example of someone saying "do what I tell you to do", it doesn't indicate absolute power over anything.

Have a little read of this. http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/06/ ... it-matter/

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:31 am 
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^ ashley313, thanks for that link you provided. Very interesting read. I didn't know that Craig Lowndes had raced for Hemut Marko's team at one stage. Probably a good thing that Craig left and returned home to Oz. He is one of the greatest touring car drivers anywhere in the world. Having said that, it would have been interesting to see if he had made it to F1, how he would have compared to Webber. :nod:

(sorry for going off topic).

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:37 am 
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Viggen wrote:
^ ashley313, thanks for that link you provided. Very interesting read. I didn't know that Craig Lowndes had raced for Hemut Marko's team at one stage. Probably a good thing that Craig left and returned home to Oz. He is one of the greatest touring car drivers anywhere in the world. Having said that, it would have been interesting to see if he had made it to F1, how he would have compared to Webber. :nod:

(sorry for going off topic).

No worries, we're already well off topic :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:47 am 
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Johnston wrote:
kai_ wrote:
My bad. I didn't read the article but assumed it was one I'd read a couple of days ago in which Marko does comment that they're looking at various options for 2014 and includes Hulkenberg in that. I have no idea where I read it, though, as I've been catching up on F1 news for the last couple of days and read dozens of articles all over the place.

As for his influence at Red Bull, he does in fact have a significant input into what goes on, particularly when it comes to who is hired and specifically the drivers.


From what I have heard his influence is merely in talking to the press. Inside the team he hasn't got any clout.

Even his official role is only as an Motorpsort Consultant. Look at how many times he's ran his mouth off to have Horner or Newey contradict him.

Remember too Marko said last year Webber wouldn't be in the team for 2013 . For 2013 Webber spoke with the big man DM himself.

+1 Agreed. Marko is a media grabbing muppet IMHO.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:02 am 
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I voted RBR as I think he may be a v good driver - only time will tell. But having said that, its hard to dislike Mark, so if he continues to perform and wishes to stay in the team, I'd rather he retained his seat.

The RBR team is proving itself the best team on the grid and a good choice for most drivers if Mark decides to call it a day.

Ferrari is out of the question for obvious reasons... but who knows, perhaps Sauber will be a championship contender next year? Unlikely, but possible.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:48 am 
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ashley313 wrote:
Firstly RBR is not part of FOTA. Second, how do you know who from the team goes to FIA meetings or negotiates with Webber, or who authorizes offers and concessions, or who instructs that representative to work toward what interests? Nobody outside the team and the driver's management does in the case of driver negotiations, and nobody outside the pretty secretive FIA meetings, the technical working groups for example, knows the other.

Your first link says Marko thinks Webber was going to retire. That doesn't mean he wanted to kick him out. Your second link didn't work.

I remember exactly when Christian gave the "behind closed doors" quote. He was asked on the BBC Forum (or post race prior to Forum) why Mark didn't heed his call to maintain the gap, and what the consequences of that would be. Saying he'd speak to him behind closed doors just means he wasn't prepared to slap him around in public, to the media. And telling a driver he needs to pay attention to the team's call is an example of someone saying "do what I tell you to do", it doesn't indicate absolute power over anything.

Have a little read of this. http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/06/ ... it-matter/


Yes not now but they were. Until they argued against the RRA.

How do you know who goes to meetings. Well on race weekends they tend to have cameras watching when everyone comes out.

The Joe saward link I have already read it and is mostly about the Red Junior stuff which I have already said Marko is in charge off.

Comments about running the Red Bull affair are in context to the young drivers not the F1 team.

As for the rest I've pointed out before Joe Saward isn't the most accurate of reporters. Remember a few months back Vijay was going to jail. His accuracy and bias has been called into question quite a few times on the forum.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:24 pm 
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Do you think he made up the facts he reported about HM's role in putting RBR together? They are available in other places, even the wiki bio. I can't look at all of those things, and the others we have discussed, and draw any conclusion other than HM is a very influential person within the team, with significant power to make and affect decisions. The facts support it, and the suppositions can go either way because nobody on the outside really knows the truth. If you can infer the opposite...well, that's your prerogative.

I also very and truly can't remember why we're talking about HM's role in the first place. Have I had too much cough medicine this morning? I have the plague.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:46 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
Do you think he made up the facts he reported about HM's role in putting RBR together? They are available in other places, even the wiki bio. I can't look at all of those things, and the others we have discussed, and draw any conclusion other than HM is a very influential person within the team, with significant power to make and affect decisions. The facts support it, and the suppositions can go either way because nobody on the outside really knows the truth. If you can infer the opposite...well, that's your prerogative.

I also very and truly can't remember why we're talking about HM's role in the first place. Have I had too much cough medicine this morning? I have the plague.



What facts? He doesn't actually say much about Marko putting Red Bull together except for hiring Horner and it doesn't put that straight to Markos door. Just that they bought Jag and Hired Christian Horner to Run it. The rest he just claims stuff with the only back up being what happened with Berger at Torro rosso. Where as we all know that RBR is ran completely different to TR because ones out to win and the other is just a training device.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:10 pm 
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IMO Ferrari are keeping their options opened, with the probability of Alonso leaving early especially if he doesn't win a title soon.
Plus there have been lots of talk about vettel to Ferrari for several years.

On the other hand if hulkenberg proves him self this year, then he will unlikely be a # 2 driver.


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