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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:25 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
nike2die4 wrote:
Doesn't make lewis look good in the truth stakes does it?

he said that once or so in 2010/2011 :uhoh:....and i thought he said he had people that were dealing with the contracts,i don't remember him saying he knew nothing about it.


Yeah there was an interview last year where he was asked how negotiations were going and he basically said I have no idea.[/quote]
i remember him saying he is not getting involved in it....how can he have no idea when he had a meeting with them in dec 2011?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:26 pm 
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nike2die4 wrote:
Johnston wrote:
nike2die4 wrote:
Doesn't make lewis look good in the truth stakes does it?

he said that once or so in 2010/2011 :uhoh:....and i thought he said he had people that were dealing with the contracts,i don't remember him saying he knew nothing about it.


Yeah there was an interview last year where he was asked how negotiations were going and he basically said I have no idea.

i remember him saying he is not getting involved in it....how can he have no idea when he had a meeting with them in dec 2011?[/quote]


He maybe was having a meeting but I'm pretty sure the question was directly about negotiations with Macca.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:33 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
We have Whitmarsh & Hamilton who say the same about the things back than, independent from each other.
Now Ron comes months later and says different, after all other parties stated the same, After the media & competitors agreed on the opinion Lewis left McL , and therefore MCL is weakened ?
Why not believe Lewis & Whitmarsh ?
Mercedes wanted him since some time IMo they held the door open for Lewis, because they would not have got a better driver, so they waited for his decission- like McLaren did.
Don't think the decission was based on money.


Explained why Whitmarsh and Ron could have different POV earlier.

Whitmarsh is tied by the deal Ron and the board lets him have. Whitmarsh can only do all he can do inside those constraints. When he says "We did everything" he's likely talking about within the guide lines sent down to him from above as far as he is concerned that figure he is given is "everything" if he's told his Max is £10 then £10 is everything. Ron is from above. He would know that there would be something else in the kitty he could give, that wee bit extra MW can't. He knows he could go to £15, Whitmarsh doesn't because that figure wouldn't work it's way down the food chain.

In essence Ron is possibly talking about how much he gave Whitmarsh to play with.

Just because Merc had been talking some time doesn't mean the door would have been open indefinitely. They had been talking to Schui What would have happened if Schui agreed to stay on? And as we know McLaren had been talking to Sergio despite there being "No plan b" . Do you honestly think Merc would have been incompetent enough not to have a plan B of their own in case Lewis decided to stay and Schui retired? I don't think they would have put themselves in a position where they would be left empty handed should Macca have put the deal down Lewis wanted.

If Schumacher had resigned for Mercedes then Hamilton would have resigned for McLaren, if Schumacher had retired and Hamilton decided to stay at McLaren anyways, Mercedes always had either Hulkenberg or di Resta to choose from.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:37 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
nike2die4 wrote:
Doesn't make lewis look good in the truth stakes does it?

he said that once or so in 2010/2011 :uhoh:....and i thought he said he had people that were dealing with the contracts,i don't remember him saying he knew nothing about it.


Quote:
Yeah there was an interview last year where he was asked how negotiations were going and he basically said I have no idea.
[/quote]
The negotiation about the 1000 pages contract makes the management, but the final say has the driver, and Hamilton chose to say " No, thank you" to Ron

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:46 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
The negotiation about the 1000 pages contract makes the management, but the final say has the driver, and Hamilton chose to say " No, thank you" to Ron


Yeah and if wasn't bothered about that and wasn't a part of it as claimed, why stop it because of his Aunt as claimed?

And again is it no thank you Ron for Lewis now going down to Rons price or No thank you Lewis for Ron not moving up to Lewis' price ?

Remember at any time Ron could have agreed to whatever Lewis wanted. He decided not too meet his demands.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:58 pm 
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garagetinkerer wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
We have Whitmarsh & Hamilton who say the same about the things back than, independent from each other.
Now Ron comes months later and says different, after all other parties stated the same, After the media & competitors agreed on the opinion Lewis left McL , and therefore MCL is weakened ?
Why not believe Lewis & Whitmarsh ?
Mercedes wanted him since some time IMo they held the door open for Lewis, because they would not have got a better driver, so they waited for his decission- like McLaren did.
Don't think the decission was based on money.


Explained why Whitmarsh and Ron could have different POV earlier.

Whitmarsh is tied by the deal Ron and the board lets him have. Whitmarsh can only do all he can do inside those constraints. When he says "We did everything" he's likely talking about within the guide lines sent down to him from above as far as he is concerned that figure he is given is "everything" if he's told his Max is £10 then £10 is everything. Ron is from above. He would know that there would be something else in the kitty he could give, that wee bit extra MW can't. He knows he could go to £15, Whitmarsh doesn't because that figure wouldn't work it's way down the food chain.

In essence Ron is possibly talking about how much he gave Whitmarsh to play with.

Just because Merc had been talking some time doesn't mean the door would have been open indefinitely. They had been talking to Schui What would have happened if Schui agreed to stay on? And as we know McLaren had been talking to Sergio despite there being "No plan b" . Do you honestly think Merc would have been incompetent enough not to have a plan B of their own in case Lewis decided to stay and Schui retired? I don't think they would have put themselves in a position where they would be left empty handed should Macca have put the deal down Lewis wanted.

Plan B is always only 2nd to plan A.
Hamilton was on both lists Nr1, so they kept the door open
B drivers are enough available. A drivers not, so it was Lewis choice at both teams
It was not as if a driver comparable to Hamilton was available for both teams, both teams knew it,and held the door open.

Do you think Whitmarsh does not know where the limit is, when he is going to make the negotiations?

Whitmarsh, as Johnston said, has a limit dictated to him. He's given the numbers he can play with.

While Lewis is a top level driver, the teams are all running closely to a budget, except RBR(which is ok by itself) and Ferrari(i could be wrong about this ). Given Lewis approached a couple of teams before he did Merc, it should give you an idea that a lot more goes into being hired than just being fast. The driver evaluation is crazy... some years ago a sample was published in F1Racing on various metrics. Who knows what the story is... but ones saying Lewis was passed on is perhaps just as accurate as your opinion. Worse still, he was passed on rather publicly by RBR(although it may have just been a ploy), while Ferrari were quiet on the entire episode. So the only conclusion you can draw is, whether or not by his choice, this move better work out for his own sake.

In terms of future titles maybe, but financially he's going to be paid far more than the likes of Vettel

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:02 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
The negotiation about the 1000 pages contract makes the management, but the final say has the driver, and Hamilton chose to say " No, thank you" to Ron


Yeah and if wasn't bothered about that and wasn't a part of it as claimed, why stop it because of his Aunt as claimed?

And again is it no thank you Ron for Lewis now going down to Rons price or No thank you Lewis for Ron not moving up to Lewis' price ?

Remember at any time Ron could have agreed to whatever Lewis wanted. He decided not too meet his demands.


He can stop the negotiations whenever he wants. If he is fed up with something wich happend at this time, no need to know any detail.

Whatever, the final say had Hamilton, and he said "No, thank you". You and Ron can spin it like you want, it does not change the fact.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:04 pm 
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LKS1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
No you think Hamilton had the last word on it Haribo. We don't really know what went on and who jumped first.

Dennis's recent words would have us believe McLaren decided they didn't really want to try that hard keeping Hamilton. Hamilton has only said he wanted a new challenge. So it looks like McLaren made the choice for Hamilton to leave, Hamilton only had to choose where he then wanted to go and Merc was really the only choice.

As for Whitmarsh, he wasn't going to go around saying he wanted rid of the driver who was still in the WDC hunt for them at the time, it would have been a PR disaster. Even in 2007 Dennis didn't say he wanted rid of Alonso until the season was out even if he did make that "we are fighting Fernando" gaffe in China. Teams don't just admit they want rid of a driver, they either replace them straight away or wait until the season is over and the driver has left before admitting their true feeling and Dennis has done just that with Hamilton. He was disappointed to see him go but he wasn't going o bend over backwards to keep him with because at the end if the to to Dennis, Hamilton is just another guy on the payroll.

But really we have no idea who jumped first. Nothing in this situation is as black or white as it see,s on the surface and I still think the choice for both parties to part company was mutual. McLaren wanted rid of Hamilton and Hamilton wanted to leave and that's exactly what they got. Both parties seem happy enough now.

Dennis recent word come too late to make it beliveable, it was really in their hands. This is the point.
All the other who had something to say Lowe, Neale, Michaels were sorry to see him leave, and did very much want him to stay.
IMO it's BS they wanted to get rid of him. Maybe it was Rons ego wich got hurt, Lewis did not agree on anything they wanted from him. Like D. Hill said they caged him like a bird, at McL, and drivers are not trained seals, once they get fed up with jumping through the loops.
McLaren & Dennis did not seem too happy. IF Dennis was happy he would have answered different.

IMO it's McLarens & Dennis attitude why they are not very successfull the last 13 years, when they treat their best drivers just like any other guy on the pay roll.

BTW Hamilton & Whitmarsh both said it was Hamilton who made the call, so it was his decission to leave. It was Ron who said he sees no reason why Hamilton would not drive at McLaren 2013, some time before the decission.

So it's only your opinion that Hamilton was the one who chose to leave and McLaren wanted him to stay. Thanks for clarifying that.

Like I said, we don't know the true ins and outs of what happened. From the outside the decision looks mutual from both parties. I don't know why that's so hard to accept from Hamilton fans. He is just an employee at the end if the day.

There is the route of the problem then i doubt that Alonso is viewed as just another employee at Ferrari or Vettel at Red Bull, and i doubt Hamilton will be viewed as just another employee at Mercedes

I'm sure Schumi wasn't viewed "as just another employee at Ferrari" either - but they let him go.


Schumacher chose to retire

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:10 pm 
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Haribo wrote:

He can stop the negotiations whenever he wants. If he is fed up with something wich happend at this time, no need to know any detail.

Whatever, the final say had Hamilton, and he said "No, thank you". You and Ron can spin it like you want, it does not change the fact.




I'm not spinning it any way and how could he be fed up with something when in his own words he didn't know what was going on :? for him to have been fed up with something he would have had to know what was going on and then that calls in to question his honesty with his previous statement.


I'm just pointing out there is more than one way it could have gone. Just because Lewis was the one to make the call doesn't make Ron a Liar or Bitter.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:44 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
So it's only your opinion that Hamilton was the one who chose to leave and McLaren wanted him to stay. Thanks for clarifying that.

Like I said, we don't know the true ins and outs of what happened. From the outside the decision looks mutual from both parties. I don't know why that's so hard to accept from Hamilton fans. He is just an employee at the end if the day.

There is the route of the problem then i doubt that Alonso is viewed as just another employee at Ferrari or Vettel at Red Bull, and i doubt Hamilton will be viewed as just another employee at Mercedes

I'm sure Schumi wasn't viewed "as just another employee at Ferrari" either - but they let him go.

Schumacher chose to retire

Well, he was torn to risk future of Massa (whom he mentored) if he chose to continue, so he didn't.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:52 pm 
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garagetinkerer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
So it's only your opinion that Hamilton was the one who chose to leave and McLaren wanted him to stay. Thanks for clarifying that.

Like I said, we don't know the true ins and outs of what happened. From the outside the decision looks mutual from both parties. I don't know why that's so hard to accept from Hamilton fans. He is just an employee at the end if the day.

There is the route of the problem then i doubt that Alonso is viewed as just another employee at Ferrari or Vettel at Red Bull, and i doubt Hamilton will be viewed as just another employee at Mercedes

I'm sure Schumi wasn't viewed "as just another employee at Ferrari" either - but they let him go.

Schumacher chose to retire

Well, he was torn to risk future of Massa (whom he mentored) if he chose to continue, so he didn't.

Kimi was only signed because Schumacher was considering retiring in the first place and was dallying over signing a new contract, not too disimillar to his situation at Mercedes

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:56 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
garagetinkerer wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
We have Whitmarsh & Hamilton who say the same about the things back than, independent from each other.
Now Ron comes months later and says different, after all other parties stated the same, After the media & competitors agreed on the opinion Lewis left McL , and therefore MCL is weakened ?
Why not believe Lewis & Whitmarsh ?
Mercedes wanted him since some time IMo they held the door open for Lewis, because they would not have got a better driver, so they waited for his decission- like McLaren did.
Don't think the decission was based on money.


Explained why Whitmarsh and Ron could have different POV earlier.

Whitmarsh is tied by the deal Ron and the board lets him have. Whitmarsh can only do all he can do inside those constraints. When he says "We did everything" he's likely talking about within the guide lines sent down to him from above as far as he is concerned that figure he is given is "everything" if he's told his Max is £10 then £10 is everything. Ron is from above. He would know that there would be something else in the kitty he could give, that wee bit extra MW can't. He knows he could go to £15, Whitmarsh doesn't because that figure wouldn't work it's way down the food chain.

In essence Ron is possibly talking about how much he gave Whitmarsh to play with.

Just because Merc had been talking some time doesn't mean the door would have been open indefinitely. They had been talking to Schui What would have happened if Schui agreed to stay on? And as we know McLaren had been talking to Sergio despite there being "No plan b" . Do you honestly think Merc would have been incompetent enough not to have a plan B of their own in case Lewis decided to stay and Schui retired? I don't think they would have put themselves in a position where they would be left empty handed should Macca have put the deal down Lewis wanted.

Plan B is always only 2nd to plan A.
Hamilton was on both lists Nr1, so they kept the door open
B drivers are enough available. A drivers not, so it was Lewis choice at both teams
It was not as if a driver comparable to Hamilton was available for both teams, both teams knew it,and held the door open.

Do you think Whitmarsh does not know where the limit is, when he is going to make the negotiations?

Whitmarsh, as Johnston said, has a limit dictated to him. He's given the numbers he can play with.

While Lewis is a top level driver, the teams are all running closely to a budget, except RBR(which is ok by itself) and Ferrari(i could be wrong about this ). Given Lewis approached a couple of teams before he did Merc, it should give you an idea that a lot more goes into being hired than just being fast. The driver evaluation is crazy... some years ago a sample was published in F1Racing on various metrics. Who knows what the story is... but ones saying Lewis was passed on is perhaps just as accurate as your opinion. Worse still, he was passed on rather publicly by RBR(although it may have just been a ploy), while Ferrari were quiet on the entire episode. So the only conclusion you can draw is, whether or not by his choice, this move better work out for his own sake.

In terms of future titles maybe, but financially he's going to be paid far more than the likes of Vettel

He was the highest paid driver, bar Alonso(i'm not sure really), but how is that working for him? Also, a lot of Lewis' fans said money couldn't have been a motive for the move.

About future(not just titles mind you), Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve are examples of what could go wrong... Also, how many drivers have gotten a second chance in the modern era of F1? I could, off the top of my head, name Prost, Michael, Kimi and Jacques (but he couldn't do much in 4 races that he drove for Renault), but that is it. Lewis is now in a somewhat precarious situation, in that Ferrari and RBR don't want him (well, as of now), and the only other team which has been a contender for race win consistently is McLaren. He better have an escape clause or two and be willing to swallow the big one (pride, and give on trophies etc.) if the move doesn't stick and go to McLaren. If there's anything that Jacques and Damon proved, then it was that it doesn't pay to take a step back to midfield. Lewis has about a decade left in him (in F1), that is if he's continuously on it, and has the will to continue, but that time could be cut short due to his new circumstances.

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Last edited by garagetinkerer on Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:11 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
garagetinkerer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
There is the route of the problem then i doubt that Alonso is viewed as just another employee at Ferrari or Vettel at Red Bull, and i doubt Hamilton will be viewed as just another employee at Mercedes

I'm sure Schumi wasn't viewed "as just another employee at Ferrari" either - but they let him go.

Schumacher chose to retire

Well, he was torn to risk future of Massa (whom he mentored) if he chose to continue, so he didn't.

Kimi was only signed because Schumacher was considering retiring in the first place and was dallying over signing a new contract, not too disimillar to his situation at Mercedes

Kimi signed an option with Ferrari in '05, much before Schumacher thought of retiring. Well, at least publicly, and he had a contract till end of '06, which he was mulling to extend for a shorter period than 3-4 years as he did previously. The trouble was caused by Luca, who was really not happy with how much power and influence Todt had in Luca's company, so to speak. However that ended with letting a few influential people go. Schumacher happened to be one of them. Ferrari my friend, has always been very political, but was less so in the times of Todt.

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1) Prost/ Schumacher
3) Fangio
4) Lauda
5) Brabham

if you don't like it, too bad! There's a reason why it says "My Top 5"


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:03 pm 
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Damon and Villeneuve were not very good to start with so it is no surprise. The cream always rises back to the top again, Alonsos stock was quite low going into 2008 and probably all time low during 2009.

In the modern era Alonso and Button have also had second chances bouncing back to top teams.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:45 pm 
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garagetinkerer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
garagetinkerer wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Johnston wrote:

Explained why Whitmarsh and Ron could have different POV earlier.

Whitmarsh is tied by the deal Ron and the board lets him have. Whitmarsh can only do all he can do inside those constraints. When he says "We did everything" he's likely talking about within the guide lines sent down to him from above as far as he is concerned that figure he is given is "everything" if he's told his Max is £10 then £10 is everything. Ron is from above. He would know that there would be something else in the kitty he could give, that wee bit extra MW can't. He knows he could go to £15, Whitmarsh doesn't because that figure wouldn't work it's way down the food chain.

In essence Ron is possibly talking about how much he gave Whitmarsh to play with.

Just because Merc had been talking some time doesn't mean the door would have been open indefinitely. They had been talking to Schui What would have happened if Schui agreed to stay on? And as we know McLaren had been talking to Sergio despite there being "No plan b" . Do you honestly think Merc would have been incompetent enough not to have a plan B of their own in case Lewis decided to stay and Schui retired? I don't think they would have put themselves in a position where they would be left empty handed should Macca have put the deal down Lewis wanted.

Plan B is always only 2nd to plan A.
Hamilton was on both lists Nr1, so they kept the door open
B drivers are enough available. A drivers not, so it was Lewis choice at both teams
It was not as if a driver comparable to Hamilton was available for both teams, both teams knew it,and held the door open.

Do you think Whitmarsh does not know where the limit is, when he is going to make the negotiations?

Whitmarsh, as Johnston said, has a limit dictated to him. He's given the numbers he can play with.

While Lewis is a top level driver, the teams are all running closely to a budget, except RBR(which is ok by itself) and Ferrari(i could be wrong about this ). Given Lewis approached a couple of teams before he did Merc, it should give you an idea that a lot more goes into being hired than just being fast. The driver evaluation is crazy... some years ago a sample was published in F1Racing on various metrics. Who knows what the story is... but ones saying Lewis was passed on is perhaps just as accurate as your opinion. Worse still, he was passed on rather publicly by RBR(although it may have just been a ploy), while Ferrari were quiet on the entire episode. So the only conclusion you can draw is, whether or not by his choice, this move better work out for his own sake.

In terms of future titles maybe, but financially he's going to be paid far more than the likes of Vettel

He was the highest paid driver, bar Alonso(i'm not sure really), but how is that working for him? Also, a lot of Lewis' fans said money couldn't have been a motive for the move.

About future(not just titles mind you), Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve are examples of what could go wrong... Also, how many drivers have gotten a second chance in the modern era of F1? I could, off the top of my head, name Prost, Michael, Kimi and Jacques (but he couldn't do much in 4 races that he drove for Renault), but that is it. Lewis is now in a somewhat precarious situation, in that Ferrari and RBR don't want him (well, as of now), and the only other team which has been a contender for race win consistently is McLaren. He better have an escape clause or two and be willing to swallow the big one (pride, and give on trophies etc.) if the move doesn't stick and go to McLaren. If there's anything that Jacques and Damon proved, then it was that it doesn't pay to take a step back to midfield. Lewis has about a decade left in him (in F1), that is if he's continuously on it, and has the will to continue, but that time could be cut short due to his new circumstances.

What has McLaren won the last decade?
IMO Lewis move is a risk, but he put his view on the bigger picture, if he is successfull with Mercedes it will be greater than anything else he ever achieved. He can help to make Mercedes a winning team, and make them to his team, where at McLaren the drivers are just another employee.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:50 pm 
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garagetinkerer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
garagetinkerer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
I'm sure Schumi wasn't viewed "as just another employee at Ferrari" either - but they let him go.

Schumacher chose to retire

Well, he was torn to risk future of Massa (whom he mentored) if he chose to continue, so he didn't.

Kimi was only signed because Schumacher was considering retiring in the first place and was dallying over signing a new contract, not too disimillar to his situation at Mercedes

Kimi signed an option with Ferrari in '05, much before Schumacher thought of retiring. Well, at least publicly, and he had a contract till end of '06, which he was mulling to extend for a shorter period than 3-4 years as he did previously. The trouble was caused by Luca, who was really not happy with how much power and influence Todt had in Luca's company, so to speak. However that ended with letting a few influential people go. Schumacher happened to be one of them. Ferrari my friend, has always been very political, but was less so in the times of Todt.

Ok i thought Ferrari took out an option on Kimi because of Schumacher's lack of commitment to a new contract

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:50 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
What has McLaren won the last decade?
IMO Lewis move is a risk, but he put his view on the bigger picture, if he is successfull with Mercedes it will be greater than anything else he ever achieved. He can help to make Mercedes a winning team, and make them to his team, where at McLaren the drivers are just another employee.



At all teams the drivers are just another employee. Unless he does a Brawn and buys it will never be "His team" .


When was the last time a driver was more than an employee? Fittapaldi maybe?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:54 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
What has McLaren won the last decade?
IMO Lewis move is a risk, but he put his view on the bigger picture, if he is successfull with Mercedes it will be greater than anything else he ever achieved. He can help to make Mercedes a winning team, and make them to his team, where at McLaren the drivers are just another employee.



At all teams the drivers are just another employee. Unless he does a Brawn and buys it will never be "His team" .


When was the last time a driver was more than an employee? Fittapaldi maybe?

It's getting silly now, this nitpicking

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:54 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
What has McLaren won the last decade?
IMO Lewis move is a risk, but he put his view on the bigger picture, if he is successfull with Mercedes it will be greater than anything else he ever achieved. He can help to make Mercedes a winning team, and make them to his team, where at McLaren the drivers are just another employee.



At all teams the drivers are just another employee. Unless he does a Brawn and buys it will never be "His team" .


When was the last time a driver was more than an employee? Fittapaldi maybe?

I guess the wording then is by saying someone is just another employee is basically saying they are dispensible. are Alonso and Vettel dispensible at their respective teams, i'm guessing their teams don't think so?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:00 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
What has McLaren won the last decade?
IMO Lewis move is a risk, but he put his view on the bigger picture, if he is successfull with Mercedes it will be greater than anything else he ever achieved. He can help to make Mercedes a winning team, and make them to his team, where at McLaren the drivers are just another employee.



At all teams the drivers are just another employee. Unless he does a Brawn and buys it will never be "His team" .


When was the last time a driver was more than an employee? Fittapaldi maybe?

It's getting silly now, this nitpicking

for real.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:03 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
What has McLaren won the last decade?
IMO Lewis move is a risk, but he put his view on the bigger picture, if he is successfull with Mercedes it will be greater than anything else he ever achieved. He can help to make Mercedes a winning team, and make them to his team, where at McLaren the drivers are just another employee.



At all teams the drivers are just another employee. Unless he does a Brawn and buys it will never be "His team" .


When was the last time a driver was more than an employee? Fittapaldi maybe?

It's getting silly now, this nitpicking


It's not nit picking. It's pointing out they are all employees. Time and time again we've seen drivers treated just like any other employee.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:17 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
What has McLaren won the last decade?
IMO Lewis move is a risk, but he put his view on the bigger picture, if he is successfull with Mercedes it will be greater than anything else he ever achieved. He can help to make Mercedes a winning team, and make them to his team, where at McLaren the drivers are just another employee.



At all teams the drivers are just another employee. Unless he does a Brawn and buys it will never be "His team" .


When was the last time a driver was more than an employee? Fittapaldi maybe?

It's getting silly now, this nitpicking


It's not nit picking. It's pointing out they are all employees. Time and time again we've seen drivers treated just like any other employee.

am pretty sure you are aware that Haribo doesn't literally mean that Lewis would own the team without purchase...pretty sure you understand that phrase means getting the team around him.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:20 pm 
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nike2die4 wrote:
am pretty sure you are aware that Haribo doesn't literally mean that Lewis would own the team without purchase...pretty sure you understand that phrase means getting the team around him.



So are you saying if a better driver came along they wouldn't drop Lewis just like any other employee?

McLaren was said to be "his team" look what happened there. Just another employee.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:24 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
nike2die4 wrote:
am pretty sure you are aware that Haribo doesn't literally mean that Lewis would own the team without purchase...pretty sure you understand that phrase means getting the team around him.



So are you saying if a better driver came along they wouldn't drop Lewis just like any other employee?

McLaren was said to be "his team" look what happened there. Just another employee.

so Lewis was dropped just like that because another driver came along? :uhoh: who is arguing with you about them not being employees? even Martin is just another employee but you don't just drop a guy that you have invested alot and know you can make alot of money out of just like that.
he is just another employee but just like in the real world,employees have stages,there is the nobody employee who would get fired and that would go unnoticed and there is the employee who if he gets fired,that would rock the boat...unfair? yes but that is life.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:34 pm 
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nike2die4 wrote:
Johnston wrote:
nike2die4 wrote:
am pretty sure you are aware that Haribo doesn't literally mean that Lewis would own the team without purchase...pretty sure you understand that phrase means getting the team around him.



So are you saying if a better driver came along they wouldn't drop Lewis just like any other employee?

McLaren was said to be "his team" look what happened there. Just another employee.

so Lewis was dropped just like that because another driver came along? :uhoh: who is arguing with you about them not being employees? even Martin is just another employee but you don't just drop a guy that you have invested alot and know you can make alot of money out of just like that.
he is just another employee but just like in the real world,employees have stages,there is the nobody employee who would get fired and that would go unnoticed and there is the employee who if he gets fired,that would rock the boat...unfair? yes but that is life.



No I meant at Merc would they drop him if a better driver came along?

Of course they would. No driver is going to keep their seat if the team think the can replace them with a better fit. Kimi and Alonso are an example of that if there ever was one.

And even if an employee getting fired (Or in these cases letting the contract run out) would rock the boat they would let it happen. It's happened all the way through F1.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:25 pm 
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You people here do realize that you sound an awful lot like the obsessive girlfriend saying "i dumped him, he didn't dump me"

Lewis could have chosen to stay and accepted a compromised offer by Mclaren. Mclaren could have given Lewis more and made a compromise within themselves.
Both parties decided not to, Mclaren won't be finished without Hamilton and Lewis may as well have a good career without Mclaren.

I think only hardcore fanboys would really look as to who dumped who first


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:40 pm 
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I think Lewis left because he just really missed having Nico as his teammate.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:53 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
I think Lewis left because he just really missed having Nico as his teammate.


I think he is with her now doing some skating and ice activities among others ;)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:11 pm 
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Not that Nico, the one with prettier hair.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:16 pm 
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Ahhh, i guess that could work too


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:21 pm 
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You mean More of this ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCQtzqPfleM

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:25 pm 
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M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
You people here do realize that you sound an awful lot like the obsessive girlfriend saying "i dumped him, he didn't dump me"

Lewis could have chosen to stay and accepted a compromised offer by Mclaren. Mclaren could have given Lewis more and made a compromise within themselves.
Both parties decided not to, Mclaren won't be finished without Hamilton and Lewis may as well have a good career without Mclaren.

I think only hardcore fanboys would really look as to who dumped who first

For Ron Dennis it's obviously very important, he was the one who started it. He had a problem with it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:33 pm 
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No I think you will find the journo started it by asking the questions.

Unless you mean the swimming pool contest before and during the negotiations which were started by Lewis IMO.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:30 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
You people here do realize that you sound an awful lot like the obsessive girlfriend saying "i dumped him, he didn't dump me"

Lewis could have chosen to stay and accepted a compromised offer by Mclaren. Mclaren could have given Lewis more and made a compromise within themselves.
Both parties decided not to, Mclaren won't be finished without Hamilton and Lewis may as well have a good career without Mclaren.

I think only hardcore fanboys would really look as to who dumped who first

For Ron Dennis it's obviously very important, he was the one who started it. He had a problem with it.


Actually Ron said they they could have done better but decided not to. nothing weird in that, you just can't accept that they could have done more to keep lewis but didn't


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:10 pm 
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i found this gem on youtube :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEVk_06US5c

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:13 pm 
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M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
Haribo wrote:
M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
You people here do realize that you sound an awful lot like the obsessive girlfriend saying "i dumped him, he didn't dump me"

Lewis could have chosen to stay and accepted a compromised offer by Mclaren. Mclaren could have given Lewis more and made a compromise within themselves.
Both parties decided not to, Mclaren won't be finished without Hamilton and Lewis may as well have a good career without Mclaren.

I think only hardcore fanboys would really look as to who dumped who first

For Ron Dennis it's obviously very important, he was the one who started it. He had a problem with it.


Actually Ron said they they could have done better but decided not to. nothing weird in that, you just can't accept that they could have done more to keep lewis but didn't

& why is this so important for him to point it out months later? Nobody else did.
Because the fact Hamilton left them, does not go down well with Ron.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:29 pm 
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Oh jesus christ, he just answered a question.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:32 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
& why is this so important for him to point it out months later? Nobody else did.
Because the fact Hamilton left them, does not go down well with Ron.



Because a Journalist asked him a question.

And as for months later. That depends on when the interview took place not when it was published. Unless you have a definitive date, the interview could have taken place any time from the end of September.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:16 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
& why is this so important for him to point it out months later? Nobody else did.
Because the fact Hamilton left them, does not go down well with Ron.



Because a Journalist asked him a question.

And as for months later. That depends on when the interview took place not when it was published. Unless you have a definitive date, the interview could have taken place any time from the end of September.

but the ask Lewis the same questions but i don't hear him saying "ohh i left,they didn't kick me out blah blah blah"...don't know what you are going on about though,it seems reading this that Ron is a bit bitter even though he won't admit it(obviously he wouldn't admit that),but that is Ron,he doesn't know how to hide his emotions....like i said,this whole thing is a "need to know" basis and frankly even though we the fans and the media are too curious,we don't really need to know what happened and who left who so Ron had no reason to be airing private matters in public.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:24 pm 
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Who has asked Lewis ANY questions since his last show car run?

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