planetf1.com

Top one this year, bottom one last year. I know it's not quantifiable, but you can see the difference.

Just because there's a modesty panel there doesn't mean you will be able to see it like you would a dinner tray. I guess it'll be hollow underneath so it'll disintegrate under impact.

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http://www.racefan.co.uk

In one of the pics are the wheels touching the ground, so the suspension is bearing any weight. When it does, the car would automatically lower. By how much, I don't know, but it surely would. Right now the tires are just hanging there.

Side by side shot shows they have changed their design philosophy entirely at the front, that is a high nose case with modesty panel to my untrained eye. If Scarbs thinks so, that is good enough for me.

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http://www.racefan.co.uk

Agreed.

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"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."

Looks like a winner to me. Very slick and aggressive.

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I think it's a mock up nose. Where the cover panel and nose is one piece just for show. This won't fly with regulations in the first race so I'm expecting a two piece of the same outline by then.

Just because that part can't be structural doesn't mean it has to be glued on. It just has to easily break apart when hit. I'm sure they could stick it on seamlessly.

If they have covered it, I am very surprised Lotus didn't. what benefit would a step bring over the smoother nose.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

Some more images for the non-beleavers:





and some pullrod suspension:



(all from Ted Kravitz)

You would think though the panel would give a smoother air flow.

Quick mock up not perfect due to the angles but gives an idea.


And damn I just realised I forgot to extend one line. You may all get a straight edge and a felt tip pen out.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

Button Whispering to Sergio: Sergio Please!!!! Where is that beauty called "The Lethal Marshmallow"?


Sergio Thinking: AY DIOS MIO!!! Jessica will go ballistic with him if he gets caught.

The car is too far. But it does say "Tooned".

I'm actually disappointed. The car looks as similar to last years car as the e21 does to its predecessor. I want to see something new and crazy. Maybe m expectations are to high. Lol

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If it's true and it looks like it about the high chassis. Then the MP4-28is nothing like the MP4-27.

Red Bull exhaust, Driveshaft covered by the wishbone, High Chassis, Pull Rod front. Fairly big changes.

Just hope McLaren have bitten off more than they can chew by making so many changes and don't end up like Ferrari last year trying to understand the car.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

The difference being McLaren have a wind tunnel which actually works. The problems Ferrari had were they couldn't understand why the wind tunnel measurements and the on track results didn't match up.

So, here you are:

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition
2012 Championship finish: 6th place

They also had hassles understanding the pull rod front and getting it setup.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

I was very curious to see if McLaren's livery would change some with the changes since last year's team. So in that regard, its a bit of a disappointment, but a very little one.

But again, it looks incredible IMO (and I'm not really a fan of McLaren), very sleek, very fast. It will be interesting to compare more of the 2013 in the manner Johnston showed the 2012 McLaren and Red Bull to the 2013 McLaren profile. Of course, there are other views, like from straight on or above, but still interesting.

As far as the livery goes, it might be seeming a bit dated now that its been in place as long as it has... but I will say, seeing it under a clear blue sunny sky in Austin, it made a real impression on me with its chrome-like reflective quality. I don't think pictures or TV can do justice to just how it looks under those conditions.

Hopefully there will be enough tweeks to the other liveries up and down the grid that it won't look identical to 2012. But I can't say I'm very disappointed to see McLaren among the unchanged. (I've got to add, I really think the additional red on the Lotus is to leave the team a place holder if it can get its Honeywell sponsorship done sometime between now and the start of the season.)

In my opinion that was a cover for their poor aero. They just wanted something to blame early on.

Has someone added the colouring on the front of the car on the top image to show the difference??

As it doesnt match the rest of the car at all

Or is it the paint job

I don't get why McLaren or any other F1 team would stick to the Step nose if they are going to use a vanity panel on there being that the most difficult aspect to building a great car is keeping weight down and making a step nose and then making a panel to sit over it just adds weight. there is absolutely no point to it and I think it has to be one of the absolute most moronic things ever done in F1. The very tip of the nose still has to adhere to a maximum height so why not just build the entire nose according to the outer most final shape and leave the stupid step out altogether?

I hope for 2014 they make some provisions for front end aero to limit the noses to sit much lower so we lose the hideous step altogether. There are other ways to harvest all this air into the bottom of the cars without resorting to raising the nose to 1200 feet. The noses from 2005 - 2008 were perfectly fine but some of the best looking F1 cars of all time were from the early 90's. This one isn't bad looking but Last years car was much better looking up front. Personally I think McLaren copped out on this raised nose trend of the day and should have used the legendary might of their empire to figure out a better way to squeeze more speed over last years car which was already the class of the field when it held together for Lewis.

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Second place is the first loser!

The difference in COG of pullrod vs. push negates the addition of the high weight of the nose and modesty panel. For sure all teams with steps will test with and without the cover. What I find most interesting is that they have no turning vanes under their high nose - are they not going to? have they just not put them on yet? And the floor. The raised outboard sections are very new, are they going for a skirt-like effect? I'm kind of surprised actually that they'd debut the car with these. The back section makes no sense at all, and is probably just for the launch, so why show your new thing on the sides? Maybe they want to trick others

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The rules are changing for 2012 so we shouldn't see the step Incubus. The tip has to be much lower come 2014.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

The crash structure of the nose has to respect the height regulations. The modesty panel does not have to.


There is an aerodynamic advantage with the modesty panel, less drag. We may see the modesty panel for high speed tracks, and without in such places as Monaco.

I know but I want them to bring it WAAAAAAAY down like they used to be, the way an F1 car should look.

I mean look at these front ends:



http://www.flickriver.com/photos/antsphoto/tags/1991/

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Second place is the first loser!

Incubus you need to do some technical reading. The designers aren't morons. The step is there because they want to exploit the flow of air under the nose. If you lift the nose and chassis as high as the rules permit (which are two different heights, hence the step) you get as much air flow underneath as possible, and then you have the ability to manipulate that air into the sidepods, around them, and over them, to create more downforce and rear grip. You put big undercuts under the sidepods to match, and you have much greater control of where that air goes, which means you can use it over the different parts of the rear end to accomplish different goals, one of which is using downwash to help manipulate the flow of exhaust gasses.

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What I meant before was if the Line beside the mobil sticker was the modesty panel then the nose would be coming up to meet the panel. So it would raise the height of the nose above the regs. the modest panel would have to come down to meet the nose (Crash structure) so the line at the top couldn't be the panel (If you know what I mean)

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

Aerodynamically and visually we a pretty much back to 2011 regulations then?

Modesty panel can be used to create that structure although underneath the real carbon structure will look completely different and rather blunt shaped to conform.

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http://www.racefan.co.uk

How an F1 car "should" look is whatever the current rules allow to make it the fastest, most reliable, easy to drive, and easy to work. If you want to see pretty cars, watch GT racing.

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I agree, I just thought that reflection, or scratch or whatever was a sign. But it does not match up to where the modesty panel would meet the nose crash structure.

That picture is a little misleading as the uprights for the front wing would mount to the actual nose structure and certainly not the modesty panel which would be a weak lightweight hollow structure.

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http://www.racefan.co.uk

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/01/f ... w-mclaren/

Ferrari and Macca sharing a wind tunnel.. This could get interesting

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

Viagra - redesigning F1 noses since 2013

Its a wonder Toyota has any time to work on its own TS03

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Don't need to read anymore as I already know all of this. The issue is that the upper has NOTHING to do with the lower and the noses can be designed so they are more aesthetically pleasing whilst not losing any of the potency of the raised front end. Additionally, the noses can be designed to sit lower and STILL harness all of that air for downforce.

I realize that F1 is a business of function over form but to what point? Additionally the step in the nose is contradictory to all things efficient when it comes to aero so some of the benefit of the raised nose is nullified by the air dam the step creates on top. With aero you want smooth flowing elements in order to minimize turbulence as turbulence leads to instability, which when it makes its way further down the line disrupts flow in many other areas. Either way I hope the 2014 changes means a return to beautiful cars that go fast because quite frankly no would enjoy watching this, even if it goes 500MPH flat out on every track:



At least I know I won't.

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Second place is the first loser!

If you understood how the high noses work, you wouldn't say any of those things. Low noses create a completely different path and mass of air at different velocity than high noses, so no, they can't do everything the same. The step in the nose isn't necessarily a huge hit to the flow over it. By manipulating the shape of the leading end of the chassis, you can control how the air stays attached to its flat top all the way to the cockpit, and making it a shorter distance helps too. The RB8 for example had that letter box slot, which gave the leading edge of the top of the step a curvature capable of helping to keep the air attached to the chassis. If any negatives of the step were not outweighed by the benefits, everyone would run low noses. Do you think they're all just purposely making the cars "ugly"? Why would they do that?

I enjoy watching how a team can manipulate its machinery to make it perform better for its drivers. I really don't care what shape it comes in, because to me, anything demonstrating the speed and cornering ability that F1 cars do is absolutely beautiful. Its the ability to do it, not the shape it does it in.

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