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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:52 pm 
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All we ever seem to hear from Hamilton is how off the pace the new Mercedes are, is he speaking the truth or playing word games to try and lull the other teams in to a false sense of security?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21550860


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:56 pm 
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It's unlikely the pace is ok on a short run but not long run


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:57 pm 
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I don't think so - he did have a good car at the end of last season - and so he has a definite 'benchmark' in his mind. I'm sure he will be genuinely worried unless he sees Merc improving at a rapid rate. Next test with Oz spec cars is more likely to give us a better indication?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:00 pm 
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By his body language on the F1 show interview I'd say no

Crofty (who would be well placed to know Lewis pretty well from covering F1 for years) said his first answers felt honest and then you could see him shift to the Mercedes PC answers

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:21 pm 
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Yea Hammy does look a little worried about the Merc :-(( But its about time someone spoke the truth about the car , I'm hoping he they are sandbagging
It could be a very intelligent ploy to get to the team to really pull something out the bag
You know make them think its peaky so they spend all every night improving the car
Or it could make them say they are abandoning this yrs. car and concentrating on 2014 knowing Mercedes :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:33 pm 
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He will be playing down expectations, no point him saying he reckons they will be competitive just now, nothing to gain in saying that. He will keep saying this until the first race and either he can say I was right or its nice to be a bit ahead of where we thought we are.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:40 pm 
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Fooman wrote:

Or it could make them say they are abandoning this yrs. car and concentrating on 2014 knowing Mercedes :lol:


I wouldn't be surprised - except for the fact that Mercedes are desperate for some results! If Nico hadn't got that win last year I could imagine they would now be gone! The money they are ploughing in requires some return. I would guess they are hoping for a quick turnaround and I'd reckon they need a few podiums this year to justify Hammys expense? The new regs give them an opportunity in one sense if they can capitalise - but if they don't meet expectations.....well.....


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:57 pm 
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Not as much as Vettel was in the Liana!

Seriously though, I doubt he's sand bagging, but I don't expect the Merc to be on the pace as yet.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:00 pm 
I've been one of those who doesn't hesitate to criticize Hamilton at times, but he's also blunt and honest too much at times. The guy isn't a natural liar, if I can even remember him ever being deceitful. How many times has he found himself in controversy or hot water because he speaks his mind? Yup, more than once. There are other drivers I wonder about, but not Hamilton.

So when he says something, it's true. Sometimes he starts to mouth the Mercedes political gibble-gabble, and you have to filter the words and listen more to what not's being said.

And too many news services are at fault, they pick and choose what parts of articles to publish, and not the entire story. It's called disinformation, and a person has to seek out other news services to filter out the crap to get to the actual truth.

One of the best things I have read (as far as accuracy, not the expectations of doing well) is this article.

Quote:
Lewis Hamilton does not believe that Mercedes will be in a position to win races during the early stages of the 2013 season, with top ten finishes his primary target at present. The 2008 World Champion says although the F1 W04 chassis is a good foundation, the car needs more downforce if he is to fight at the front of the field.

"We're not looking at wins at the moment," Hamilton commented in the Circuit de Catalunya paddock on Friday. "We're hoping to get into the points and fight for the top ten. It's not fast enough to be the quickest over one lap but it's not slow, that's for sure.

"We need more downforce, that's the name of the game at the moment. We need to improve reliability in some areas, such as the sensors, but otherwise we just need as much downforce as we can get."

Hamilton went on to explain that predictions made by a selection of rivals, which include victories from the offset, have talked up his chances a little too much.

"People are talking us up at the moment," he added. "Vettel and Fernando (Alonso) are saying that we're going to be competing for the World Championship, but I really don't see that happening at the moment. "Of course that's our goal, but you've got to remember the car was more than a second off, sometimes two seconds off, last year.

"We've not caught up two seconds and the teams will have put another second on this year. We've not caught up three seconds, that's just a fact. Hopefully by the end of the year we will have gained three seconds, but definitely not at the beginning."

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2908 ... -hamilton/


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:02 pm 
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FringeUK wrote:
Fooman wrote:

Or it could make them say they are abandoning this yrs. car and concentrating on 2014 knowing Mercedes :lol:


I wouldn't be surprised - except for the fact that Mercedes are desperate for some results! If Nico hadn't got that win last year I could imagine they would now be gone! The money they are ploughing in requires some return. I would guess they are hoping for a quick turnaround and I'd reckon they need a few podiums this year to justify Hammys expense? The new regs give them an opportunity in one sense if they can capitalise - but if they don't meet expectations.....well.....

If Merc don't win a single race this year, unlikely given the resources and Hamilton joining, then I can imagine some very long faces in the boardroom in Germany. Faces who might just pull the plug a la BMW/Toyota in 2009. Merc's future is by no means secure just yet. A lot rides on this year looking like a step forward and 2014 being a success.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:08 pm 
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If he was expecting a good car this year, then he made a massive mistake. If anybody expected a good Mercedes this year they're kidding themselves. Considering they will be focusing on the 2014 car I can't imagine a great deal of updates through the year either.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:26 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
I've been one of those who doesn't hesitate to criticize Hamilton at times, but he's also blunt and honest too much at times. The guy isn't a natural liar, if I can even remember him ever being deceitful. How many times has he found himself in controversy or hot water because he speaks his mind? Yup, more than once. There are other drivers I wonder about, but not Hamilton.

So when he says something, it's true. Sometimes he starts to mouth the Mercedes political gibble-gabble, and you have to filter the words and listen more to what not's being said.

And too many news services are at fault, they pick and choose what parts of articles to publish, and not the entire story. It's called disinformation, and a person has to seek out other news services to filter out the crap to get to the actual truth.

One of the best things I have read (as far as accuracy, not the expectations of doing well) is this article.

Quote:
Lewis Hamilton does not believe that Mercedes will be in a position to win races during the early stages of the 2013 season, with top ten finishes his primary target at present. The 2008 World Champion says although the F1 W04 chassis is a good foundation, the car needs more downforce if he is to fight at the front of the field.

"We're not looking at wins at the moment," Hamilton commented in the Circuit de Catalunya paddock on Friday. "We're hoping to get into the points and fight for the top ten. It's not fast enough to be the quickest over one lap but it's not slow, that's for sure.

"We need more downforce, that's the name of the game at the moment. We need to improve reliability in some areas, such as the sensors, but otherwise we just need as much downforce as we can get."

Hamilton went on to explain that predictions made by a selection of rivals, which include victories from the offset, have talked up his chances a little too much.

"People are talking us up at the moment," he added. "Vettel and Fernando (Alonso) are saying that we're going to be competing for the World Championship, but I really don't see that happening at the moment. "Of course that's our goal, but you've got to remember the car was more than a second off, sometimes two seconds off, last year.

"We've not caught up two seconds and the teams will have put another second on this year. We've not caught up three seconds, that's just a fact. Hopefully by the end of the year we will have gained three seconds, but definitely not at the beginning."

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2908 ... -hamilton/

Thanks Blinky.

Thing is though, Hamilton says Merc can hopefully gain those three seconds by the end of the year... Well the other teams will likely have improved too. He knows that. I don't think he expects Merc to be in a winning position all season. In his mind set I think the less Merc have to claw back by 2014 the better.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:50 pm 
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AngusWolfe wrote:
If he was expecting a good car this year, then he made a massive mistake. If anybody expected a good Mercedes this year they're kidding themselves. Considering they will be focusing on the 2014 car I can't imagine a great deal of updates through the year either.


I genuinely don't believe LH thought Merc would be up there this year - BUT - and this is a big but - I am certain that Brawn or Merc 'twisted his arm' with some promise of a future 'chance'. Look at it this way - he IS a top driver - and he IS competitive - just driving around has no interest for him, I'm guessing.... (I must confess though, if I was offered a good few squillion quid, I might just drive around!)

Equally, I do not believe Hamilton thinks (unless he is a completely arrogant sugarplum?) that he can turn Merc around on his own! - No, I think he has been persuaded by something, some promise of better things....but I also think that he is at the mercy of Mercs board, and he(and Brawn) will need to show something this year.......orrisk the dole queue?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:55 pm 
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FringeUK wrote:
AngusWolfe wrote:
If he was expecting a good car this year, then he made a massive mistake. If anybody expected a good Mercedes this year they're kidding themselves. Considering they will be focusing on the 2014 car I can't imagine a great deal of updates through the year either.


I genuinely don't believe LH thought Merc would be up there this year - BUT - and this is a big but - I am certain that Brawn or Merc 'twisted his arm' with some promise of a future 'chance'. Look at it this way - he IS a top driver - and he IS competitive - just driving around has no interest for him, I'm guessing.... (I must confess though, if I was offered a good few squillion quid, I might just drive around!)

Equally, I do not believe Hamilton thinks (unless he is a completely arrogant sugarplum?) that he can turn Merc around on his own! - No, I think he has been persuaded by something, some promise of better things....but I also think that he is at the mercy of Mercs board, and he(and Brawn) will need to show something this year.......orrisk the dole queue?

Why should Hamilton be on the "Mercy " of the board? He showed at the recent years, that he is of the absolute top drivers, Hamilton has nothing to prove there.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:05 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
FringeUK wrote:
AngusWolfe wrote:
If he was expecting a good car this year, then he made a massive mistake. If anybody expected a good Mercedes this year they're kidding themselves. Considering they will be focusing on the 2014 car I can't imagine a great deal of updates through the year either.


I genuinely don't believe LH thought Merc would be up there this year - BUT - and this is a big but - I am certain that Brawn or Merc 'twisted his arm' with some promise of a future 'chance'. Look at it this way - he IS a top driver - and he IS competitive - just driving around has no interest for him, I'm guessing.... (I must confess though, if I was offered a good few squillion quid, I might just drive around!)

Equally, I do not believe Hamilton thinks (unless he is a completely arrogant sugarplum?) that he can turn Merc around on his own! - No, I think he has been persuaded by something, some promise of better things....but I also think that he is at the mercy of Mercs board, and he(and Brawn) will need to show something this year.......orrisk the dole queue?

Why should Hamilton be on the "Mercy " of the board? He showed at the recent years, that he is of the absolute top drivers, Hamilton has nothing to prove there.

If Merc had another mediocre year then the board may just pull the plug on the entire team and go back to just making engines. If that happens Hamilton is in big trouble, Button and Perez are under contract at McLaren until the end of 2015, Alonso is at Ferrari until 2015 so he won't go there, Vettel is with Red Bull until the end of 2014 and will probably resign soon so I probably won't get a seat there either. Lotus? Well who knows where they'll be in 2/3 years when Kimi leaves again. His chances of another top seat will be slim. That's why a lot rests with their form and the board's happiness.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:06 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
FringeUK wrote:
AngusWolfe wrote:
If he was expecting a good car this year, then he made a massive mistake. If anybody expected a good Mercedes this year they're kidding themselves. Considering they will be focusing on the 2014 car I can't imagine a great deal of updates through the year either.


I genuinely don't believe LH thought Merc would be up there this year - BUT - and this is a big but - I am certain that Brawn or Merc 'twisted his arm' with some promise of a future 'chance'. Look at it this way - he IS a top driver - and he IS competitive - just driving around has no interest for him, I'm guessing.... (I must confess though, if I was offered a good few squillion quid, I might just drive around!)

Equally, I do not believe Hamilton thinks (unless he is a completely arrogant sugarplum?) that he can turn Merc around on his own! - No, I think he has been persuaded by something, some promise of better things....but I also think that he is at the mercy of Mercs board, and he(and Brawn) will need to show something this year.......orrisk the dole queue?

Why should Hamilton be on the "Mercy " of the board? He showed at the recent years, that he is of the absolute top drivers, Hamilton has nothing to prove there.


Clearly, both he and Mercedes think they will have some performance at some time in the near future, logically 2014. Its probable that a new team will rise to the top, like Red Bull in 2009, but there is no saying it will be Merc. Could be Lotus, could be Sauber, could even be Marussia. If he does think he can turn them round himself I look forward to seeing him fail.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:14 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
FringeUK wrote:
AngusWolfe wrote:
If he was expecting a good car this year, then he made a massive mistake. If anybody expected a good Mercedes this year they're kidding themselves. Considering they will be focusing on the 2014 car I can't imagine a great deal of updates through the year either.


I genuinely don't believe LH thought Merc would be up there this year - BUT - and this is a big but - I am certain that Brawn or Merc 'twisted his arm' with some promise of a future 'chance'. Look at it this way - he IS a top driver - and he IS competitive - just driving around has no interest for him, I'm guessing.... (I must confess though, if I was offered a good few squillion quid, I might just drive around!)

Equally, I do not believe Hamilton thinks (unless he is a completely arrogant sugarplum?) that he can turn Merc around on his own! - No, I think he has been persuaded by something, some promise of better things....but I also think that he is at the mercy of Mercs board, and he(and Brawn) will need to show something this year.......orrisk the dole queue?

Why should Hamilton be on the "Mercy " of the board? He showed at the recent years, that he is of the absolute top drivers, Hamilton has nothing to prove there.

If Merc had another mediocre year then the board may just pull the plug on the entire team and go back to just making engines. If that happens Hamilton is in big trouble, Button and Perez are under contract at McLaren until the end of 2015, Alonso is at Ferrari until 2015 so he won't go there, Vettel is with Red Bull until the end of 2014 and will probably resign soon so I probably won't get a seat there either. Lotus? Well who knows where they'll be in 2/3 years when Kimi leaves again. His chances of another top seat will be slim. That's why a lot rests with their form and the board's happiness.

If Button does not deliver this season, it could very well be his last at McLaren, his contract is running out 2014
Massa & Webber are on 1 year contracts, too. Kimi can also turn his back at F! after this season, nothing is sure with him. Grosjeans seat is not secure, too.
Hamilton is not on the mercy of anyone, as long as he delivers. Even if Mercedes pulls the plug it will not be before the end of 2014

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:17 pm 
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AngusWolfe wrote:
Haribo wrote:
FringeUK wrote:
AngusWolfe wrote:
If he was expecting a good car this year, then he made a massive mistake. If anybody expected a good Mercedes this year they're kidding themselves. Considering they will be focusing on the 2014 car I can't imagine a great deal of updates through the year either.


I genuinely don't believe LH thought Merc would be up there this year - BUT - and this is a big but - I am certain that Brawn or Merc 'twisted his arm' with some promise of a future 'chance'. Look at it this way - he IS a top driver - and he IS competitive - just driving around has no interest for him, I'm guessing.... (I must confess though, if I was offered a good few squillion quid, I might just drive around!)

Equally, I do not believe Hamilton thinks (unless he is a completely arrogant sugarplum?) that he can turn Merc around on his own! - No, I think he has been persuaded by something, some promise of better things....but I also think that he is at the mercy of Mercs board, and he(and Brawn) will need to show something this year.......orrisk the dole queue?

Why should Hamilton be on the "Mercy " of the board? He showed at the recent years, that he is of the absolute top drivers, Hamilton has nothing to prove there.



Clearly, both he and Mercedes think they will have some performance at some time in the near future, logically 2014. Its probable that a new team will rise to the top, like Red Bull in 2009, but there is no saying it will be Merc. Could be Lotus, could be Sauber, could even be Marussia. If he does think he can turn them round himself I look forward to seeing him fail.

How do you come to the strange conclusion, he want#s to turn the tean round himself? He never said or suggested sth like this.
But, I believe you, you are looking foreward to see him fail. IMO it's the majority here who hope for it.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:22 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
FringeUK wrote:
AngusWolfe wrote:
If he was expecting a good car this year, then he made a massive mistake. If anybody expected a good Mercedes this year they're kidding themselves. Considering they will be focusing on the 2014 car I can't imagine a great deal of updates through the year either.


I genuinely don't believe LH thought Merc would be up there this year - BUT - and this is a big but - I am certain that Brawn or Merc 'twisted his arm' with some promise of a future 'chance'. Look at it this way - he IS a top driver - and he IS competitive - just driving around has no interest for him, I'm guessing.... (I must confess though, if I was offered a good few squillion quid, I might just drive around!)

Equally, I do not believe Hamilton thinks (unless he is a completely arrogant sugarplum?) that he can turn Merc around on his own! - No, I think he has been persuaded by something, some promise of better things....but I also think that he is at the mercy of Mercs board, and he(and Brawn) will need to show something this year.......orrisk the dole queue?

Why should Hamilton be on the "Mercy " of the board? He showed at the recent years, that he is of the absolute top drivers, Hamilton has nothing to prove there.

Because since he got lucky with his title he had just gone down hill so yes he does has to prove himself and its unlikely he will turn the team around and as Laura said he could find himself with no drive or team at the back


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:22 pm 
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Seriously there is no point discussing anything with you Haribo. Not when you think Hamilton is faultless and some kind of Demi god.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:26 pm 
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There's something very funny going on with Merc. I don't know what that is but they're up to something I can tell that for sure. Last year everybody was surprised with that DDRS which nobody saw it coming, and I'm guessing most of the people never even knew of such a concept existed ever. Who knows maybe they've found something to be very substantial. I mean the fact the they've signed Lewis is something very interesting, promising yet very intriguing. Unless it's just a matter of Prestige that Mercedes wants to retain. Otherwise I won't be surprised if everybody becomes tiddled of on 15th of March like a year ago where everybody was bitching about the DDRS system.

Or, 2013 could be a whole experimental year for Merc to try and get the advantage in advance for 2014 revolution. As I said, very f'ing intriguing, something funny smells. You have a team that has better budget than Lotus and probably equal to Red Bull and they didn't score a point if it wasn't for the rain in Brazil since Singapore GP.

VERY ODD. But I'm eager to see how things play out.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:27 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
AngusWolfe wrote:
Haribo wrote:
FringeUK wrote:
AngusWolfe wrote:
If he was expecting a good car this year, then he made a massive mistake. If anybody expected a good Mercedes this year they're kidding themselves. Considering they will be focusing on the 2014 car I can't imagine a great deal of updates through the year either.


I genuinely don't believe LH thought Merc would be up there this year - BUT - and this is a big but - I am certain that Brawn or Merc 'twisted his arm' with some promise of a future 'chance'. Look at it this way - he IS a top driver - and he IS competitive - just driving around has no interest for him, I'm guessing.... (I must confess though, if I was offered a good few squillion quid, I might just drive around!)

Equally, I do not believe Hamilton thinks (unless he is a completely arrogant sugarplum?) that he can turn Merc around on his own! - No, I think he has been persuaded by something, some promise of better things....but I also think that he is at the mercy of Mercs board, and he(and Brawn) will need to show something this year.......orrisk the dole queue?

Why should Hamilton be on the "Mercy " of the board? He showed at the recent years, that he is of the absolute top drivers, Hamilton has nothing to prove there.



Clearly, both he and Mercedes think they will have some performance at some time in the near future, logically 2014. Its probable that a new team will rise to the top, like Red Bull in 2009, but there is no saying it will be Merc. Could be Lotus, could be Sauber, could even be Marussia. If he does think he can turn them round himself I look forward to seeing him fail.

How do you come to the strange conclusion, he want#s to turn the tean round himself? He never said or suggested sth like this.
But, I believe you, you are looking foreward to see him fail. IMO it's the majority here who hope for it.

He said in an interview


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:31 pm 
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Hamilton is not bigger than any team. He can drive his heart out this year and never put a foot wrong - but if the team still sucks and stays where they are, or worse, takes a step back, the board could pull out. As good as Hamilton is, he isn't guaranteed a walk-on role at any other good team. If he were, he would have had a choice other than Merc for this year. I don't see him being welcome at RBR or Ferrari, and why would McLaren take him back so soon after he bailed on them? If he were lucky enough to find room at Lotus, he'd have to be willing to take a mega pay cut. Don't forget Nico would also be available at that point, and for much less cash.

As for whether he is sandbagging...probably a little. Never hurts to downplay expectations, but I don't think he believes Merc is any better than they look, which is right where they left off last year, IMO.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:45 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
If Merc had another mediocre year then the board may just pull the plug on the entire team and go back to just making engines. If that happens Hamilton is in big trouble, Button and Perez are under contract at McLaren until the end of 2015, Alonso is at Ferrari until 2015 so he won't go there, Vettel is with Red Bull until the end of 2014 and will probably resign soon so I probably won't get a seat there either. Lotus? Well who knows where they'll be in 2/3 years when Kimi leaves again. His chances of another top seat will be slim. That's why a lot rests with their form and the board's happiness.


It would be great if Merc pulled the plug, Brawn took on the team and won the 2014 WDC and WCC


But that's just crazy talk! :D


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:46 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
AngusWolfe wrote:
Haribo wrote:
FringeUK wrote:
AngusWolfe wrote:
If he was expecting a good car this year, then he made a massive mistake. If anybody expected a good Mercedes this year they're kidding themselves. Considering they will be focusing on the 2014 car I can't imagine a great deal of updates through the year either.


I genuinely don't believe LH thought Merc would be up there this year - BUT - and this is a big but - I am certain that Brawn or Merc 'twisted his arm' with some promise of a future 'chance'. Look at it this way - he IS a top driver - and he IS competitive - just driving around has no interest for him, I'm guessing.... (I must confess though, if I was offered a good few squillion quid, I might just drive around!)

Equally, I do not believe Hamilton thinks (unless he is a completely arrogant sugarplum?) that he can turn Merc around on his own! - No, I think he has been persuaded by something, some promise of better things....but I also think that he is at the mercy of Mercs board, and he(and Brawn) will need to show something this year.......orrisk the dole queue?

Why should Hamilton be on the "Mercy " of the board? He showed at the recent years, that he is of the absolute top drivers, Hamilton has nothing to prove there.



Clearly, both he and Mercedes think they will have some performance at some time in the near future, logically 2014. Its probable that a new team will rise to the top, like Red Bull in 2009, but there is no saying it will be Merc. Could be Lotus, could be Sauber, could even be Marussia. If he does think he can turn them round himself I look forward to seeing him fail.

How do you come to the strange conclusion, he want#s to turn the tean round himself? He never said or suggested sth like this.
But, I believe you, you are looking foreward to see him fail. IMO it's the majority here who hope for it.


I was responding to the bolded quote. I don't believe he thinks its, and I know he won't do it.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:47 pm 
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Look guys - there is no-one more disparaging of the early Hamilton than myself; he was hailed as the demi-god, and to anyone who has half a brain, he has delivered on his promise as a young rookie driver. He has not had the benefit of a dominant car, but whenever he has been give a half chance car, he has tried to take it (even with the crashes and failings?). I was very reserved over the Hamilton hype - and I still am - but there is no doubt that he is a top driver.
My point was that in order to talk LH out of Macca (even though LH was probably disillusioned with Macca themselves!) they (Merc) must have had some ace up their sleeve. I don't mean a wonder go faster solution (a la Brawn 2009) - I mean a commitment to putting resources and effort into the design and backroom boys to produce a championship contender. If they made no such promise - then LH is deffo an idiot (unless of course he has a lovely get out team performance clause!) - which I don't think he is?
just sayin.........


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:54 pm 
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FringeUK wrote:
Look guys - there is no-one more disparaging of the early Hamilton than myself; he was hailed as the demi-god, and to anyone who has half a brain, he has delivered on his promise as a young rookie driver. He has not had the benefit of a dominant car, but whenever he has been give a half chance car, he has tried to take it (even with the crashes and failings?). I was very reserved over the Hamilton hype - and I still am - but there is no doubt that he is a top driver.
My point was that in order to talk LH out of Macca (even though LH was probably disillusioned with Macca themselves!) they (Merc) must have had some ace up their sleeve. I don't mean a wonder go faster solution (a la Brawn 2009) - I mean a commitment to putting resources and effort into the design and backroom boys to produce a championship contender. If they made no such promise - the LH is deffo an idiot (unless of course he has a lovely team performance clause!) - which I don't think he is?
just sayin.........

IMo Hamilton has a performance clause, most top drivers will have one.
And what many people say, Hamilton wanted out of McLaren
There has been the a source who said Hamilton rather left F1 than to stay another year at McLaren

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:55 pm 
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jay2005 wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
If Merc had another mediocre year then the board may just pull the plug on the entire team and go back to just making engines. If that happens Hamilton is in big trouble, Button and Perez are under contract at McLaren until the end of 2015, Alonso is at Ferrari until 2015 so he won't go there, Vettel is with Red Bull until the end of 2014 and will probably resign soon so I probably won't get a seat there either. Lotus? Well who knows where they'll be in 2/3 years when Kimi leaves again. His chances of another top seat will be slim. That's why a lot rests with their form and the board's happiness.


It would be great if Merc pulled the plug, Brawn took on the team and won the 2014 WDC and WCC


But that's just crazy talk! :D

This time it would be Wolff, not Brawn, as Wolff already owns 30% of the shares

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:00 am 
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Wow !! Season hasn't started yet and the knives are out and the hopes of Hamilton's failure continue , quite why this young man brings out such vitriol and bile is beyond me .

Thing is the bitterness is so imbedded that all rational thought flies out the window and becomes more ridiculous as the haters spur each other on .

Seriously Lewis Hamilton the likely fastest most discussed driver in F1 . In his six years in F1 49 podiums 913 points 26 poles 21 wins 1 WDC age 28

And you waste your time believing/ hoping that if Mercedes don't produce a good car this year he will end up on the dole queue !!😳
Him, wishing to help Mercedes get the the front of the grid the company alongside Mclaren that brought him into F1 , and his supporters wishing him success in his new challenge , means he / we think he is a Demi God 😕 good grief .

Anyhow Ross Brawn has said they have two parallel teams this season one working on the development of this years car and the other team on the 2014 car . This years car will be developed throughout the season , I have a feeling that Hamilton will have stipulated this in his contract .

Ross Brawn is impressed with him Rosberg looks motivated and in good form and from the comments here people are getting nervous that he might just pull it off .

Below is part of a Q&A from Ross Brawn

Q: The feeling in the paddock is that Mercedes have an awful lot of technical chiefs. There is Bob Bell, Aldo Costa and Geoff Willis and the rumour was that Paddy Lowe would also join the technical department from McLaren. What do you say about all that?
RB: Well, I think that the structure we have now is a structure that had been ‘designed’ in 2012 with Bob Bell as technical director. It is quite clear that there is a lot of demands on the engineering teams - especially when you are looking at a new car as we are doing for 2014. The new car is so dramatically different to the existing car that we are having parallel engineering groups to do the current car and to do the new car. As an engine manufacturer we have to have a lot of input into the design of the engine to get the engine right for the chassis. If you are simply a customer you take what the engine supplier gives you, but as we are a complete team, our group has to start to work on the new car much earlier than other teams as we have to understand what sort of engine we want to have for the car. That parallel development is crucial. Ferrari already announced a while ago that they have two teams working on the 2013 and 2014 cars and that is what we have also done. So the names we have on our organization might be a bit wider known, but it is the essential structure that you need to support these programs.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:07 am 
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I don't know if anyone said they hope it doesn't work out for Merc, but I didn't. I would laugh if Lewis ended up seat-less when the music stops, but I'm not like, actively hoping for it.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:12 am 
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Haribo wrote:
FringeUK wrote:
Look guys - there is no-one more disparaging of the early Hamilton than myself; he was hailed as the demi-god, and to anyone who has half a brain, he has delivered on his promise as a young rookie driver. He has not had the benefit of a dominant car, but whenever he has been give a half chance car, he has tried to take it (even with the crashes and failings?). I was very reserved over the Hamilton hype - and I still am - but there is no doubt that he is a top driver.
My point was that in order to talk LH out of Macca (even though LH was probably disillusioned with Macca themselves!) they (Merc) must have had some ace up their sleeve. I don't mean a wonder go faster solution (a la Brawn 2009) - I mean a commitment to putting resources and effort into the design and backroom boys to produce a championship contender. If they made no such promise - the LH is deffo an idiot (unless of course he has a lovely team performance clause!) - which I don't think he is?
just sayin.........

IMo Hamilton has a performance clause, most top drivers will have one.
And what many people say, Hamilton wanted out of McLaren
There has been the a source who said Hamilton rather left F1 than to stay another year at McLaren

Link?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:16 am 
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Top Gear interview referencing Merc's possible turnaround: "Michael did it years ago with Ferrari and there's no other driver that has done that really so I want to do something like that"

If he wants it on public record that he was part of doing an MS/Ferrari turnaround, then if/when Merc comes good, it is in his interest to play down their speed right now at the start.

That is reading a lot between the lines though.. chances are he is just being honest about their pace. Difficult to believe that it'll be anything but everyone vs Adrian Newey this year.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:17 am 
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No he is being honest about their pace, he never expected them to be winning races or getting podiums in 2013, nobody expected that or said that would happen so i dont understand all this hysteria. They aren't challenging, nobody at Merc thought they would be, nobody thinks they will, it has always been about 2014 and still is. You guys always look into this way way too much every year and come the start of the season almost every bit of speculation turns out to be wrong.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:48 am 
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Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
FringeUK wrote:
AngusWolfe wrote:
If he was expecting a good car this year, then he made a massive mistake. If anybody expected a good Mercedes this year they're kidding themselves. Considering they will be focusing on the 2014 car I can't imagine a great deal of updates through the year either.


I genuinely don't believe LH thought Merc would be up there this year - BUT - and this is a big but - I am certain that Brawn or Merc 'twisted his arm' with some promise of a future 'chance'. Look at it this way - he IS a top driver - and he IS competitive - just driving around has no interest for him, I'm guessing.... (I must confess though, if I was offered a good few squillion quid, I might just drive around!)

Equally, I do not believe Hamilton thinks (unless he is a completely arrogant sugarplum?) that he can turn Merc around on his own! - No, I think he has been persuaded by something, some promise of better things....but I also think that he is at the mercy of Mercs board, and he(and Brawn) will need to show something this year.......orrisk the dole queue?

Why should Hamilton be on the "Mercy " of the board? He showed at the recent years, that he is of the absolute top drivers, Hamilton has nothing to prove there.

If Merc had another mediocre year then the board may just pull the plug on the entire team and go back to just making engines. If that happens Hamilton is in big trouble, Button and Perez are under contract at McLaren until the end of 2015, Alonso is at Ferrari until 2015 so he won't go there, Vettel is with Red Bull until the end of 2014 and will probably resign soon so I probably won't get a seat there either. Lotus? Well who knows where they'll be in 2/3 years when Kimi leaves again. His chances of another top seat will be slim. That's why a lot rests with their form and the board's happiness.

Hamilton is a top driver,and as long as he is a top driver with backing,there would always be vacancy in a top team,he may have to bide him time a bit but they'll move mountains to make way,that's just the way it the real world works,it's all politics,it who you know and what you have to offer.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:50 am 
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i don't think he is sandbagging however he is trying to put expectations at a minimum which is fair enough,no sense in bigging up the season for no reason but to set yourself up.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:53 am 
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FormulaFun wrote:
No he is being honest about their pace, he never expected them to be winning races or getting podiums in 2013, nobody expected that or said that would happen so i dont understand all this hysteria. They aren't challenging, nobody at Merc thought they would be, nobody thinks they will, it has always been about 2014 and still is.


I don't know, acknowledging that the 2013 season will be a long "test session" is pretty sad for a marque like MB.
Still can't see a competitor like LH being happy with such an arrangement.
It's either an early retirement plan or an end of a promising career.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:49 am 
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nike2die4 wrote:
Hamilton is a top driver,and as long as he is a top driver with backing,there would always be vacancy in a top team,he may have to bide him time a bit but they'll move mountains to make way,that's just the way it the real world works,it's all politics,it who you know and what you have to offer.

Like McLaren "moved mountains" to keep him? Like RBR and Ferrari booted their drivers to have him? Oh that's right, none of that happened.

Do you think he would have chosen Merc if other teams would do anything to have him? F1 isn't a one man sport right now, nobody is worth upsetting the whole apple cart for.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:13 am 
What happened with Schumacher and Ferrari was a very unique situation, the dismal record of Ferrari in the early 90's was the straw that broke the camel's back for the Ferrari board of directors and they were willing to do anything to get on top. They allowed Schumacher and many other top people to come in and completely overhaul the team and change the culture there. Hamilton, despite his unbelievable talent, is just one link in the chain of performance, the team has to be good, and the car has to be good. And I believe that no team is willing to accept a change of culture, not Red Bull, or McLaren, or Ferrari.

If the Mercedes team discover some magic to close the gap in performance, so be it. It can happen, but unlikely. If the 2014 car lives up to expectations, Hamilton has positioned himself very well. If not, this would not be the first time a top-ranked driver could not find a seat in a top team. At least for the immediate future. He may have to wait for three or four years before that opportunity comes along.

I preach patience, please. Hamilton's contract with Mercedes was not one race, or one year, it was for three years. We will have to sit and wait, and even at the conclusion of the 2013 season there will still be the same questions are there are now.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:45 am 
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IMO with the exception of RBR, all teams are run mostly by their respective Boards back at HQ. Gone are the days of Star Driver and Star this and that. For the board members you are just an employee who is disposable. Heads have started rolling at Merc thats why they had a big reshuffle. But look at the history, most manufacturers have just joined F1 to do a little arm flexing and then do a disappearing act. Do the math, with the exception of Ferrari, who else has been there for a long haul and won for long.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:33 am 
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Well, I don't know, depends on hat a "long haul" can be called. For instance, Renault's hauls have been of 8 years each: 1977-1985 and 2002-2010. That does show some kind of commitment. Even Toyota, which got a lot of rotten tomatoes in their face, did a 7 year stint, 2002-2009, that's not so few.
By comparison, BMW's official colors lasted for 4 years, Honda official colors 2 years.
We'll see about Mercedes; so far this would be their 3rd year, as we all know.

Now, back to Hamilton, even in the worst case scenario in which Merc pull the plug, he will definitely get a race seat. He's highly rated by everybody on the paddock, I doubt he'll get in the same basket as Kobayashi or Kovalainen. One way or another, a top team seat will become available; the major letdown will probably be a paycheck cut, as the team will probably negotiate on their own terms, not on Hamilton's.

Now, back-back-back to the topic's roots, no, I don't think he's sandbagging. He's just making a realistic approach to things, pretty much the way Ferrari did at the beginning of last season.

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