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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:35 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I think the way the official F1 site and Official F1 videos too now are just trying too hard to impress. This serious dramatic music at the start. Then, why show you a driver selection when the video says it is with Vettel. And they waste time by hovering over all 5 drivers then going back to Vettel. They do similar when finding the track. Flick through several tracks, go purposely too far past Hockenheim and then flick back. Come on! The video title mentions "Lap Of Hockenheim" and "Sebastian Vettel" We know what you are going to select so why bother showing it as if you are making your mind up? The way they are done is just slow painful to watch now. Surely it would make more sense to show a real on-board video of one of the drivers best laps at the track with them describing it. Many drivers struggle to describe while driving. That is understandable. This other way would make more sense, look better and sound better.


But it wouldn't promote their game, which is the whole point of the 'Hot Lap' videos.

... although in light of Vettel's here, and Magnussen's last time, I think they might want to reconsider the 'hot' part of that description. :twisted:


As Exediron pointed out they are trying to promote their game. Yes their approach needs help but they are atleast trying something.

Agreed they should really have the drivers putting a flawless lap together. Kmags was exploring some unique driving lines to say the least and Vettel was quite slow. It’s like they shove a camera in the drivers face and say play this game now. Surely giving them a few laps to get acclimated and then pick the best lap is the way to go. As for the commentary they should just do a voice over youtube style.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:42 am 
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Mayhem wrote:
Exediron wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I think the way the official F1 site and Official F1 videos too now are just trying too hard to impress. This serious dramatic music at the start. Then, why show you a driver selection when the video says it is with Vettel. And they waste time by hovering over all 5 drivers then going back to Vettel. They do similar when finding the track. Flick through several tracks, go purposely too far past Hockenheim and then flick back. Come on! The video title mentions "Lap Of Hockenheim" and "Sebastian Vettel" We know what you are going to select so why bother showing it as if you are making your mind up? The way they are done is just slow painful to watch now. Surely it would make more sense to show a real on-board video of one of the drivers best laps at the track with them describing it. Many drivers struggle to describe while driving. That is understandable. This other way would make more sense, look better and sound better.


But it wouldn't promote their game, which is the whole point of the 'Hot Lap' videos.

... although in light of Vettel's here, and Magnussen's last time, I think they might want to reconsider the 'hot' part of that description. :twisted:


As Exediron pointed out they are trying to promote their game. Yes their approach needs help but they are atleast trying something.

Agreed they should really have the drivers putting a flawless lap together. Kmags was exploring some unique driving lines to say the least and Vettel was quite slow. It’s like they shove a camera in the drivers face and say play this game now. Surely giving them a few laps to get acclimated and then pick the best lap is the way to go. As for the commentary they should just do a voice over youtube style.


Just an unnecessary gimmick really.

Why not do it like sky, use an actual lap from the circuit and get the driver to describe it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:51 am 
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Rockie wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
Exediron wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I think the way the official F1 site and Official F1 videos too now are just trying too hard to impress. This serious dramatic music at the start. Then, why show you a driver selection when the video says it is with Vettel. And they waste time by hovering over all 5 drivers then going back to Vettel. They do similar when finding the track. Flick through several tracks, go purposely too far past Hockenheim and then flick back. Come on! The video title mentions "Lap Of Hockenheim" and "Sebastian Vettel" We know what you are going to select so why bother showing it as if you are making your mind up? The way they are done is just slow painful to watch now. Surely it would make more sense to show a real on-board video of one of the drivers best laps at the track with them describing it. Many drivers struggle to describe while driving. That is understandable. This other way would make more sense, look better and sound better.


But it wouldn't promote their game, which is the whole point of the 'Hot Lap' videos.

... although in light of Vettel's here, and Magnussen's last time, I think they might want to reconsider the 'hot' part of that description. :twisted:


As Exediron pointed out they are trying to promote their game. Yes their approach needs help but they are atleast trying something.

Agreed they should really have the drivers putting a flawless lap together. Kmags was exploring some unique driving lines to say the least and Vettel was quite slow. It’s like they shove a camera in the drivers face and say play this game now. Surely giving them a few laps to get acclimated and then pick the best lap is the way to go. As for the commentary they should just do a voice over youtube style.

Just an unnecessary gimmick really.

Why not do it like sky, use an actual lap from the circuit and get the driver to describe it.

I feel like we're going in circles, but...

It wouldn't promote their game, which is the whole point of the 'Hot Lap' videos.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:02 am 
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I'm not sure it's right to presume it's Codemasters that is forcing the drivers to do the video quickly, either. It'd make a lot more sense to me if it were the F1 drivers who couldn't be bothered doing virtual laps for an hour just to piece together a really good one.

There probably isn't much excitement in driving virtual cars in a pretty unrealistic game when you drive the real thing.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:16 am 
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Toby. wrote:
I'm not sure it's right to presume it's Codemasters that is forcing the drivers to do the video quickly, either. It'd make a lot more sense to me if it were the F1 drivers who couldn't be bothered doing virtual laps for an hour just to piece together a really good one.

There probably isn't much excitement in driving virtual cars in a pretty unrealistic game when you drive the real thing.


Exactly!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:42 am 
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So Ferrari apparently have the best harvesting system, the twin battery must work a treat?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:57 am 
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pokerman wrote:
So Ferrari apparently have the best harvesting system, the twin battery must work a treat?


Where is this coming from? A link?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:06 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
So Ferrari apparently have the best harvesting system, the twin battery must work a treat?


Where is this coming from? A link?


Someone said it on Sky's coverage.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:16 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
So Ferrari apparently have the best harvesting system, the twin battery must work a treat?


Where is this coming from? A link?


Sky were discussing it with Cyril Abiteboul of Renault and asked if it was something that Renault could put onto the engine next year. He said that there was still a lot of back and forth with the FIA about what was ok, and that while no accusations were now being made, they needed to be sure what was legal before comitting to their own develpment (or something like that).

Is also an article on Autosport discussing the rumours of what might be happening https://www.autosport.com/f1/feature/8362/is-free-energy-trick-the-key-to-ferrari-surge


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:37 am 
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FP1 done:

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Source - https://scontent.fbom16-1.fna.fbcdn.net ... e=5BC9A1A8

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:39 am 
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Ok, thanks guys, I don't get the coverage at work.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:41 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
So Ferrari apparently have the best harvesting system, the twin battery must work a treat?


Where is this coming from? A link?

I read an article earlier but for the life of me can’t find it again. It said the above but at the same time said the Mercedes has been the faster car these last three weekends. It also said Ferrari would have less opportunity to use their superior harvesting at Hockenheim, but that’s above my pay grade so no idea how accurate it is


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:48 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
So Ferrari apparently have the best harvesting system, the twin battery must work a treat?


Where is this coming from? A link?

I read an article earlier but for the life of me can’t find it again. It said the above but at the same time said the Mercedes has been the faster car these last three weekends. It also said Ferrari would have less opportunity to use their superior harvesting at Hockenheim, but that’s above my pay grade so no idea how accurate it is


That's pretty much my understanding too. At Silverstone, the Merc was getting de-rates on the high speed sections while the Ferrari was not. The Merc was still faster through the high speed corners, but the Ferrari clawed it all back on the straights due to its (suggested) harvesting trick. However the layout of Hockenheim and at many other tracks, this will not prove to be quite so significant. In theory.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:48 am 
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Ferrari are trialing a unique exhaust for their car. Kimi's car has the old exhaust whereas Vettel's car has the new exhaust design.

Kimi's car:
Image
Source - https://cdn-4.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... detail.jpg

Vettel's car:
Image
Source - https://cdn-6.motorsport.com/images/amp ... 656172.jpg

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:36 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
So Ferrari apparently have the best harvesting system, the twin battery must work a treat?


Where is this coming from? A link?


Someone said it on Sky's coverage.

Yep :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:55 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Ferrari are trialing a unique exhaust for their car. Kimi's car has the old exhaust whereas Vettel's car has the new exhaust design.

Kimi's car:
Image
Source - https://cdn-4.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... detail.jpg

Vettel's car:
Image
Source - https://cdn-6.motorsport.com/images/amp ... 656172.jpg


Not just the exhaust, but the back end as well.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:38 pm 
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Max topped the second session, not bad for RB


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:00 pm 
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FP2 done:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:04 pm 
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I’m assuming Ferrari are holding back, as they seem a bit slow


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:21 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
I’m assuming Ferrari are holding back, as they seem a bit slow


Yeah me too. I think they'll have a slight advantage come qualifying tomorrow which will see Vettel take pole and Raikkonen and the two Mercs battle it out for P2-4.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:55 pm 
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That’s been Ferrari’s MO all season.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:29 pm 
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Lojik wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
So Ferrari apparently have the best harvesting system, the twin battery must work a treat?


Where is this coming from? A link?

I read an article earlier but for the life of me can’t find it again. It said the above but at the same time said the Mercedes has been the faster car these last three weekends. It also said Ferrari would have less opportunity to use their superior harvesting at Hockenheim, but that’s above my pay grade so no idea how accurate it is


That's pretty much my understanding too. At Silverstone, the Merc was getting de-rates on the high speed sections while the Ferrari was not. The Merc was still faster through the high speed corners, but the Ferrari clawed it all back on the straights due to its (suggested) harvesting trick. However the layout of Hockenheim and at many other tracks, this will not prove to be quite so significant. In theory.


Which might also explain why Redbull was so off the pace at Silverstone and why they seem to be right on the pace at Hockenhiem. There is just not a lot of heavy braking zones at Silverstone considering the length of the lap and many of the corners are taken at WOT. So not much time for the MGU-K to harvest enough and Merc, Renault and Honda's ERS do not seem to work as well as Ferrari's. Whatever they are doing, whether it is a 2 battery system or somehow getting energy from their turbo and mgu-h, Ferrari does seem to have the best ERS out there; they can deploy longer than the others. An advantage that does not appear on every track though. The ICE units all seem to be close to each other in output though.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:11 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Ferrari are trialing a unique exhaust for their car. Kimi's car has the old exhaust whereas Vettel's car has the new exhaust design.


Not just the exhaust, but the back end as well.


Correct new exhaust needed a engine cover and with that came a new rear wing as well

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:20 pm 
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Toby. wrote:
I'm not sure it's right to presume it's Codemasters that is forcing the drivers to do the video quickly, either. It'd make a lot more sense to me if it were the F1 drivers who couldn't be bothered doing virtual laps for an hour just to piece together a really good one.

There probably isn't much excitement in driving virtual cars in a pretty unrealistic game when you drive the real thing.


I wouldn’t say Codemasters is forcing them to do it. They just seem rushed imo. Also they aren’t using the latest f1 game which is a shame for promotion purposes. Vettel was using F1 2016 if you look closely you can see the title around the circuit and most of the other videos were F1 2017 game.

Agreed, driving the real thing is better then a simulator but these videos are released before the race weekend starts to give people a preview of what’s to come for the race weekend. Also we don’t know how far in advance these videos are done.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:18 am 
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From F1's official website showing long run pace deficit:

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Source - www.imgur.com

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:28 am 
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kleefton wrote:
Lojik wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
So Ferrari apparently have the best harvesting system, the twin battery must work a treat?


Where is this coming from? A link?

I read an article earlier but for the life of me can’t find it again. It said the above but at the same time said the Mercedes has been the faster car these last three weekends. It also said Ferrari would have less opportunity to use their superior harvesting at Hockenheim, but that’s above my pay grade so no idea how accurate it is


That's pretty much my understanding too. At Silverstone, the Merc was getting de-rates on the high speed sections while the Ferrari was not. The Merc was still faster through the high speed corners, but the Ferrari clawed it all back on the straights due to its (suggested) harvesting trick. However the layout of Hockenheim and at many other tracks, this will not prove to be quite so significant. In theory.


Which might also explain why Redbull was so off the pace at Silverstone and why they seem to be right on the pace at Hockenhiem. There is just not a lot of heavy braking zones at Silverstone considering the length of the lap and many of the corners are taken at WOT. So not much time for the MGU-K to harvest enough and Merc, Renault and Honda's ERS do not seem to work as well as Ferrari's. Whatever they are doing, whether it is a 2 battery system or somehow getting energy from their turbo and mgu-h, Ferrari does seem to have the best ERS out there; they can deploy longer than the others. An advantage that does not appear on every track though. The ICE units all seem to be close to each other in output though.


Sounds like it's just Ferrari's version of Honda's extra harvest where you can use the unlimited pathways between the H,ES and K to get more than 4MJ a lap. If all this fuss is really only down to this unlimited H and Mercedes and Renault aren't doing it I'd fall off my chair. The pathway has been known since the start and was left unlimited for a reason. Weird.


Shamelessly lifted from SophieB on AS...


Autosport‏Verified account @autosport 57s57 seconds ago

There has been huge intrigue over what Ferrari is doing with its battery system in the 2018 F1 season. So, with the reason for its breakthrough becoming clearer, is a 'free energy' trick the key to its strong form in recent races?

https://www.autospor...o-ferrari-surge



Quote

"They've found some extra horsepower on the engine, in the turbo just before you get into the engine," [Nico Rosberg] said. "That is where a lot of electricity is being recharged, with the turbo charge and it is really for free. You can take as much extra energy from there to charge the batteries..."


Quote

Energy recovery from the MGU-K to the battery is limited to 2MJ per lap (the MGU-H is unlimited), while overall energy that can be taken from the battery to the MGU-K for deployment is 4MJ per lap.
No such strict limit is in place for the MGU-H though, which is the area where Rosberg has suggested 'free' energy is being harvested.

The F1 regulations state that there is no restriction on how much power the MGU-H can send to the energy store or receive back (as long as the difference between the maximum and minimum state of charge of the battery does not exceed 4MJ at any time the car is on track).

Furthermore, the MGU-H can send as much power as it wants to the MGU-K as long as it goes through the MGU control unit (which has a maximum storage of 5KJ).
So if Ferrari has indeed found a clever way of managing its energy deployment - using the freedom in the rules to power the MGU-K off the MGU-H at the same time that excess energy is being sent to the battery store - then that would give it a theoretical advantage that does not fall under the 4MJ limit.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:29 am 
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Johnson wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Exediron wrote:
The old circuit was about as boring as a circuit could be. I honestly don't know why people have such nostalgia about it - as a track layout, a Formula E circuit is more interesting. It had the atmosphere of going through the forest, and that was about it.
I agree. The nostalgia of the in-car video driving past the site of Clark's death -- morbid as that seems -- was the only interesting part of the old layout. But this recollection also emphasizes the problem, with the trees so close to the track.

The chicanes were a result to slow the cars, because the track couldn't be widened. Fast forward to the eventual revision to the shorter circuit, which finally gave a nod to political reality... given the "green" influence in Europe, the old dilemma of chopping down all those trees on the old part of the track to make it wider/safer inevitably spelled doom to the northern leg of the lap.

Had the forest been pruned back in the early 60's, there would have been a wider track, and more importantly, room for some grandstands among the trees, etc, and we would be racing there today. But alas, no...

Nothing angers me more than "protecting trees" around race tracks. They couldn't get permission to cut down a single tree at Brands Hatch, a tree that was obviously a big safety risk. That is the tree that enabled the sequence of events that resulted in the death of Henry Surtees.

Basically, 2 or 3 trees needed to be removed to make that part of the track as safe as can be. Its a couple of trees in the middle of a piece of private property. Its ridiculous. They could plant 10x new tress in the infield for everyone they remove. It still angers me today, I remember seeing that tree a few years before Surtees accident and was amazed it was still there.

I've often wondered if someone will snap one day and sneak down there with a chainsaw... totally illegal but it would solve the problem and maybe save a life or two. And then the circuit could plant more in safer places as a peace offering, despite their lack of responsibility.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:23 am 
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If Red Bull's race pace is as strong as suggested, it only favours Verstappen as Ricciardo will be starting from back of the grid. However, it's quite close between the top 3 teams.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:47 am 
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Lotus49 wrote:

Sounds like it's just Ferrari's version of Honda's extra harvest where you can use the unlimited pathways between the H,ES and K to get more than 4MJ a lap. If all this fuss is really only down to this unlimited H and Mercedes and Renault aren't doing it I'd fall off my chair. The pathway has been known since the start and was left unlimited for a reason. Weird.


Shamelessly lifted from SophieB on AS...


Autosport‏Verified account @autosport 57s57 seconds ago

There has been huge intrigue over what Ferrari is doing with its battery system in the 2018 F1 season. So, with the reason for its breakthrough becoming clearer, is a 'free energy' trick the key to its strong form in recent races?

https://www.autospor...o-ferrari-surge



Quote

"They've found some extra horsepower on the engine, in the turbo just before you get into the engine," [Nico Rosberg] said. "That is where a lot of electricity is being recharged, with the turbo charge and it is really for free. You can take as much extra energy from there to charge the batteries..."


Quote

Energy recovery from the MGU-K to the battery is limited to 2MJ per lap (the MGU-H is unlimited), while overall energy that can be taken from the battery to the MGU-K for deployment is 4MJ per lap.
No such strict limit is in place for the MGU-H though, which is the area where Rosberg has suggested 'free' energy is being harvested.

The F1 regulations state that there is no restriction on how much power the MGU-H can send to the energy store or receive back (as long as the difference between the maximum and minimum state of charge of the battery does not exceed 4MJ at any time the car is on track).

Furthermore, the MGU-H can send as much power as it wants to the MGU-K as long as it goes through the MGU control unit (which has a maximum storage of 5KJ).
So if Ferrari has indeed found a clever way of managing its energy deployment - using the freedom in the rules to power the MGU-K off the MGU-H at the same time that excess energy is being sent to the battery store - then that would give it a theoretical advantage that does not fall under the 4MJ limit.


Yeah it would seem surprising that Merc and Renault would not be taking advantage of it I agree, but maybe it is a lot harder to harvest significant energy from the H and Ferrari has found the best way to do it.

Didn't Honda claim last year that when they added power to their ICE it actually hurt the MGU-H's harvesting ability? Just shows it is not easy.

Merc released a video last year claiming that they were experiencing de-rating at Baku. Like a previous poster mentioned, it is still a problem for them this year at some tracks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCZsXQ98FCM


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:46 am 
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kleefton wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:

Sounds like it's just Ferrari's version of Honda's extra harvest where you can use the unlimited pathways between the H,ES and K to get more than 4MJ a lap. If all this fuss is really only down to this unlimited H and Mercedes and Renault aren't doing it I'd fall off my chair. The pathway has been known since the start and was left unlimited for a reason. Weird.


Shamelessly lifted from SophieB on AS...


Autosport‏Verified account @autosport 57s57 seconds ago

There has been huge intrigue over what Ferrari is doing with its battery system in the 2018 F1 season. So, with the reason for its breakthrough becoming clearer, is a 'free energy' trick the key to its strong form in recent races?

https://www.autospor...o-ferrari-surge



Quote

"They've found some extra horsepower on the engine, in the turbo just before you get into the engine," [Nico Rosberg] said. "That is where a lot of electricity is being recharged, with the turbo charge and it is really for free. You can take as much extra energy from there to charge the batteries..."


Quote

Energy recovery from the MGU-K to the battery is limited to 2MJ per lap (the MGU-H is unlimited), while overall energy that can be taken from the battery to the MGU-K for deployment is 4MJ per lap.
No such strict limit is in place for the MGU-H though, which is the area where Rosberg has suggested 'free' energy is being harvested.

The F1 regulations state that there is no restriction on how much power the MGU-H can send to the energy store or receive back (as long as the difference between the maximum and minimum state of charge of the battery does not exceed 4MJ at any time the car is on track).

Furthermore, the MGU-H can send as much power as it wants to the MGU-K as long as it goes through the MGU control unit (which has a maximum storage of 5KJ).
So if Ferrari has indeed found a clever way of managing its energy deployment - using the freedom in the rules to power the MGU-K off the MGU-H at the same time that excess energy is being sent to the battery store - then that would give it a theoretical advantage that does not fall under the 4MJ limit.


Yeah it would seem surprising that Merc and Renault would not be taking advantage of it I agree, but maybe it is a lot harder to harvest significant energy from the H and Ferrari has found the best way to do it.

Didn't Honda claim last year that when they added power to their ICE it actually hurt the MGU-H's harvesting ability? Just shows it is not easy.

Merc released a video last year claiming that they were experiencing de-rating at Baku. Like a previous poster mentioned, it is still a problem for them this year at some tracks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCZsXQ98FCM


Good vid,saw it before but it's interesting. Yeah I think Ferrari are just getting more out of it right now. Honda had trouble when they introduced their lean burn yeah as they lost a lot of recoupable energy from the exhaust with the now more efficient combustion process iirc. Something like that anyway.

The Ferrari advantage could be as simple as Shell making better fuel than Petronas or as complicated as their unique battery set up, it's anyone's guess but it seems the battery is getting the attention. Either way they are doing better in harvesting for whatever reason.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:03 am 
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Hamilton ill?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:10 am 
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Hope Hamilton is ok


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:11 am 
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shoot999 wrote:
Hamilton ill?

Yep which at the moment doesn't matter because it's wet but he needs to be doing qualifying regardless.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:16 am 
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Just heard that Hamilton will do qualifying and a few laps in FP3 if needed.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:36 am 
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Looks like we'll have a wet qualy!!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:41 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Looks like we'll have a wet qualy!!!!!!!

Cyril suggested it may be delayed because of the rain...


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:43 am 
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The craziness of F1 were the cars are not on the track because they don't have enough wet tyres.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:49 am 
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Oh dear, the rubbish crofty comes up with when nothing is on is nonsense. Ben Edwards and Karun Chandhok are way better at making conversation when nothing is happening without making lots of really really bad jokes. I get the feeling that if Sky don't change their line up in practice sessions in 2019, I'm going to watch far less than this year as we have Channel 4 now. Sorry to say, but if Crofty leaves Sky next year, I will be happy. He may be knowledgeable, but his presentation style is so painful.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:55 am 
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Any drivers doing a lap now MUST not try hard at all. This is the worst time for things to go wrong. If they wanted to get a better lap in, they should have done so earlier. So if it did go wrong, theya t least have a bit more time before qualifying to sort it out.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:01 am 
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Hamilton going out


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