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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:53 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Robot wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I'm not sure because Alonso apparently doesn't want to do the full series, he doesn't like the cars.



Yeah that's what the Spanish press close to him is saying, he didn't enjoy the car in a normal circuit plus doing so many races away from Europe. Honestly he should suck it and do it. Winning the WEC (if he does it), plus the F1 and the Indy championship is a feat for the history books.

One for the history books perhaps but this idea that it has more value than a WDC title is questionable for me, Mansell won back to back F1 and Indycar titles but it didn't raise his stock above drivers like Senna and Prost who only competed in F1.


He'd recently been beat by Prost and Senna, and Piquet in comparable cars so I don't think anything he did outside F1 would raise his stock above them.

Dunno who said it had more value than a WDC though but I guess it depends on what type of WDC it was. Shutting out Stoff in a dominant McLaren would do nothing to his standing imo but obviously beating someone like Lewis in a comparable fight would mean much much more.

Plus its all subjective anyway. There'll be people who already view him above those in F1, like Nigel Roebuck for example, its just the nature of non spec racing.

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-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:47 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Robot wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I'm not sure because Alonso apparently doesn't want to do the full series, he doesn't like the cars.



Yeah that's what the Spanish press close to him is saying, he didn't enjoy the car in a normal circuit plus doing so many races away from Europe. Honestly he should suck it and do it. Winning the WEC (if he does it), plus the F1 and the Indy championship is a feat for the history books.

One for the history books perhaps but this idea that it has more value than a WDC title is questionable for me, Mansell won back to back F1 and Indycar titles but it didn't raise his stock above drivers like Senna and Prost who only competed in F1.


He'd recently been beat by Prost and Senna, and Piquet in comparable cars so I don't think anything he did outside F1 would raise his stock above them.

Dunno who said it had more value than a WDC though but I guess it depends on what type of WDC it was. Shutting out Stoff in a dominant McLaren would do nothing to his standing imo but obviously beating someone like Lewis in a comparable fight would mean much much more.

Plus its all subjective anyway. There'll be people who already view him above those in F1, like Nigel Roebuck for example, its just the nature of non spec racing.

Well there's not much to disagree with there, the reference to the WDC title I believe is something that Alonso himself said that the triple crown is worth more than a WDC title?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:08 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Robot wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I'm not sure because Alonso apparently doesn't want to do the full series, he doesn't like the cars.



Yeah that's what the Spanish press close to him is saying, he didn't enjoy the car in a normal circuit plus doing so many races away from Europe. Honestly he should suck it and do it. Winning the WEC (if he does it), plus the F1 and the Indy championship is a feat for the history books.

One for the history books perhaps but this idea that it has more value than a WDC title is questionable for me, Mansell won back to back F1 and Indycar titles but it didn't raise his stock above drivers like Senna and Prost who only competed in F1.


He'd recently been beat by Prost and Senna, and Piquet in comparable cars so I don't think anything he did outside F1 would raise his stock above them.

Dunno who said it had more value than a WDC though but I guess it depends on what type of WDC it was. Shutting out Stoff in a dominant McLaren would do nothing to his standing imo but obviously beating someone like Lewis in a comparable fight would mean much much more.

Plus its all subjective anyway. There'll be people who already view him above those in F1, like Nigel Roebuck for example, its just the nature of non spec racing.

Well there's not much to disagree with there, the reference to the WDC title I believe is something that Alonso himself said that the triple crown is worth more than a WDC title?


Ah did he, I'd disagree myself then depending on the circumstances like above. Dominant win over a non fancied team mate title then yeah I can see the triple being worth more but a title like Lewis did this year or against Lewis himself in similar circumstances then no, not for me.

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-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:17 am 
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If you are one who feels that F1 and it's feeder series are pretty much all that matters, then indeed, another WDC is of greater value than an Indy 500 win.

However, if as a fan, you place a great emphasis on versatility in the evaluation /rankings of drivers, then an Indy 500 gains a great importance. I see that some have discarded a LeMans win as basically meaningless and I couldn't disagree more. To be able to drive as well as Alonso did, day and night, at the top level in his first real try is a significant accomplishment and deserves recognition. Remember too, a driver is not only judged he teammate comparisons, but they even the Same car, not just a similar one.

It seems as though some are trying to move the bar when it comes to Indy. Now, winning the Indy 500 is already being written off as a "lottery" and now Nando would have to win the season series for it to matter. Can we assume he now has to win the WEC for LeMans to matter too? The Indy 500, like the LeMans 24hr, is a transcendental race in the series each year...so much more than just a race. Most people, even fans of those series, likely will not be able to tell you who the season champ(s) were, but can probably tell who the winners of the 24hr or 500 were. F1 is a little different kettle of fish in that respect as I see it.

I have made the case for versatile drivers before. People can argue for the greatest F1, Indy, Sports Car, NASCAR, ETC drivers of all-time and that is fine, however, I am more fascinated by greatest all-around drivers, as I see that as a greater indicated of greatness. I look at drivers like Mario Andretti, Graham Hill, Jimmy Clark, Dan Gurney, AJ Foyt, Stirling Moss, and others as the truly great drivers of my lifetime. Before getting up in arms, I am not saying that Lewis and Seb are not great or that they couldn't do well in other racing disciplines, only that until they do we don't know. I enjoy seeing drivers extend themselves.

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Last edited by Blake on Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:31 am 
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Blake wrote:
It seems as though some are trying to move the bar when it comes to Indy. Now, winning the Indy 500 is already being written off as a "lottery" and now Nando would have to win the season series for it to matter. Can we assume he now has to win the SEC for LeMans to matter too? The Indy 500, like the LeMans 24hr, is a transcendental race in the series each year...so much more than just a race. Most people, even fans of those series, likely will not be able to tell you who the season champ(s) were, but can probably tell who the winners of the 24hr or 500 were. F1 is a little different kettle of fish in that respect as I see it.

As one of the people who called the 500 win a lottery, I'd like to make it clear that I'm not trying to disrespect the level of the achievement, more highlighting the fact that there really is a sizable element of luck in winning. Yes, you need to drive at an extremely high level for almost four hours, but reliability, pit timing, and the mistakes of other drivers play a huge role in determining the final winner.

I won't say that any 500 winner is undeserving - they had to put themselves in a position to win it, and they had to close the deal - but I don't see the 500 win as being a higher achievement than the IndyCar championship. More than any other race win, certainly, but not more than a championship.

Now, do I see winning the 500 as more of an achievement than winning an F1 WDC in the best car?

Maybe.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:17 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Blake wrote:
It seems as though some are trying to move the bar when it comes to Indy. Now, winning the Indy 500 is already being written off as a "lottery" and now Nando would have to win the season series for it to matter. Can we assume he now has to win the SEC for LeMans to matter too? The Indy 500, like the LeMans 24hr, is a transcendental race in the series each year...so much more than just a race. Most people, even fans of those series, likely will not be able to tell you who the season champ(s) were, but can probably tell who the winners of the 24hr or 500 were. F1 is a little different kettle of fish in that respect as I see it.

As one of the people who called the 500 win a lottery, I'd like to make it clear that I'm not trying to disrespect the level of the achievement, more highlighting the fact that there really is a sizable element of luck in winning. Yes, you need to drive at an extremely high level for almost four hours, but reliability, pit timing, and the mistakes of other drivers play a huge role in determining the final winner.

I won't say that any 500 winner is undeserving - they had to put themselves in a position to win it, and they had to close the deal - but I don't see the 500 win as being a higher achievement than the IndyCar championship. More than any other race win, certainly, but not more than a championship.

Now, do I see winning the 500 as more of an achievement than winning an F1 WDC in the best car?

Maybe.

I watched the Indy 500 in 2017 because of Alonso and the race was a lottery, horses for courses I suppose, over this side of the pond it means very little, I mean who won the race in 2017 Takuma Sato, it means as much as some F1 WDC titles, not for me it just one race with a bit of a roll of the dice, I would respect a driver more for winning the Indycar title.

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2016: 4th Place

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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:29 pm 
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Yawn. I barely care enough to write this sentence. I wonder how he will orchestrate an easy win à la Singapore '08, Le Mans '18... Maybe by '28 he'll have it figured out?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:59 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Yawn. I barely care enough to write this sentence. I wonder how he will orchestrate an easy win à la Singapore '08, Le Mans '18... Maybe by '28 he'll have it figured out?

Apparently Le Mans 2018 was the toughest win in recent memory. :)

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:21 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Yawn. I barely care enough to write this sentence. I wonder how he will orchestrate an easy win à la Singapore '08, Le Mans '18... Maybe by '28 he'll have it figured out?

Apparently Le Mans 2018 was the toughest win in recent memory. :)

Of all time, wasn't it?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:43 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Yawn. I barely care enough to write this sentence. I wonder how he will orchestrate an easy win à la Singapore '08, Le Mans '18... Maybe by '28 he'll have it figured out?

Honestly, I think you'd have been better off saving yourself the effort.

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TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:25 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Yawn. I barely care enough to write this sentence. I wonder how he will orchestrate an easy win à la Singapore '08, Le Mans '18... Maybe by '28 he'll have it figured out?

Honestly, I think you'd have been better off saving yourself the effort.

Yeah probably but what can you do.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:41 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Yawn. I barely care enough to write this sentence. I wonder how he will orchestrate an easy win à la Singapore '08, Le Mans '18... Maybe by '28 he'll have it figured out?

Apparently Le Mans 2018 was the toughest win in recent memory. :)

Of all time, wasn't it?


with his recent comments about f1, to me, he is just showing his jealousy of not being on a top team. i hope his car will not start on the grid at indy


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:16 pm 
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How sporting of you, pc.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:56 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Yawn. I barely care enough to write this sentence. I wonder how he will orchestrate an easy win à la Singapore '08, Le Mans '18... Maybe by '28 he'll have it figured out?

Apparently Le Mans 2018 was the toughest win in recent memory. :)

Of all time, wasn't it?

Even that?

He obviously can't really believe that but even so if you talk rubbish then other things he says may be taken with a pinch of salt?

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:01 pm 
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Full season in IndyCar or return to F1 in 2020 are possibilities.

https://es.motorsport.com/f1/news/alons ... d/3215753/

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:47 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Full season in IndyCar or return to F1 in 2020 are possibilities.

https://es.motorsport.com/f1/news/alons ... d/3215753/


Sorry if I've missed this, but does Alonso just plan to compete in the ongoing WEC and Indy 500 next year and do nothing else?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:57 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Full season in IndyCar or return to F1 in 2020 are possibilities.

https://es.motorsport.com/f1/news/alons ... d/3215753/


Sorry if I've missed this, but does Alonso just plan to compete in the ongoing WEC and Indy 500 next year and do nothing else?


Yeah looks like it anyway. Probably Daytona 24hr in January as well. Also possible he tests for McLaren I read elsewhere but nothing confirmed.

2nd half of the year looks bare, what big races are held in the 2nd half of the year?

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:00 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Full season in IndyCar or return to F1 in 2020 are possibilities.

https://es.motorsport.com/f1/news/alons ... d/3215753/


Sorry if I've missed this, but does Alonso just plan to compete in the ongoing WEC and Indy 500 next year and do nothing else?


Yeah looks like it anyway. Probably Daytona 24hr in January as well. Also possible he tests for McLaren I read elsewhere but nothing confirmed.

2nd half of the year looks bare, what big races are held in the 2nd half of the year?



Cheers Lotus :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:09 pm 
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No worries. :thumbup:

I'm pretty sure he also mentioned he liked Bathurst 1000 a while ago and I just checked and its was in October this year so if its the same again then maybe he tries that. I can't think of anything else in the second half tbh.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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