Arai_or_Nothing wrote:
Colo134 wrote:
jase.2 wrote:
As usual Indy delivered a great race, cant remember the last boring one but I can remember a few F1 races like that recently. At least these guys have a go at racing and only get ten goes at push to pass instead of every lap
I agree with comments about Power - he moans his donkey off about everyone else, never his fault etc but seems to get away with whatever he does
The worst crash tho was Dixon pushing Justin Wilson into the wall, felt really bad for Justin as im sure he would have won the race, but maybe as he was all over Dixon his eagerness cost him as he could probably have picked his spot to get past better
tbh I could watch a Formula 1600 race and see just as good if not better racing. I see and hear indy car fans jump up and yell that the indy car has 'the best racing ever'. But i dont see it, and i dont get excited about it. Lemme explain why i dont get excited about it. In F1, we have different cars that have different strengths and weaknesses, some are good on the straight, some or good in the corners, some are good on breaking, and some are good on acceleration. The Drivers exploit their car's strengths and their opponent's as well as managing their own weaknesses to get past eachother. In Indy Car all the cars are identical, its a spec series. I find that that makes it very difficult to get excited about a battle forming, because we know that theyre the same and have no advantage or weakness over the other. So please explain to me what makes indy car racing so great.
Is it the overtaking? sure theres alot, but its difficult to get excited about it because of what i mentioned earlier.
Is it the Unpredictability? That unpredictability doesnt exist as much as Indy fans say it does. In 2012, 13 of the 15 races were won by Ganassi, Penske, or Andretti. In 2013, 14 out of the 19 races were won by one of those three teams.
Is it the crashes? Anyone who watches racing for the crashes needs to have their head checked.
I see your point, to a point. The only thing spec in Indy these days is the chassis. There are currently 2 engines, Chevy and Honda, so there's a bit of variance in the "spec" there.
Furthermore, what we can for sure ascertain is which drivers are better than others via observing how well they drive throughout the season. If a driver bests the competition, then certainly he's a really good driver. However, theres also the ability of a driver and team to get their setups correct which adds a bit of complexity to the equation, in assessing a driver's ability.
As with most series, you have a clutch of excellent, top tier drivers, some decent ones and then a few that either bought their way in or just made it by the skin of their teeth, but are decent enough to run without much incident. Some of these guys develop into great drivers and some fade away, but that's the case with every series.
What IRL is indeed missing are multiple chassis as well as engines to mix things up a bit more but currently, the economic climate won't support that and it seems no other engine manufacturers want in. I'd love to see Toyota and Ford come back, as well as the Mercedes but time will tell if they'll ever invest as much as they did in the 90's to build up a series, only to have the powers that be, drive it right into the ground because they can't look past their egos.
Currently the IRL is an OK series to watch for me and I'm making a conscious effort to follow it more closely, but I'm going in with reservations that I wish weren't there because I want to give it a fair shake. Having JPM driving full time will help.
I think that there are some great drivers in the IRL. I dont deny that at all. Bourdais, Wilson, Power, Sato, Hinch. But the on track product is poor. Some people call it great, but i call it poor. There are alot of silly crashes in the IRL which could have been avoided either from Steward decision or Driver decision. Like last weekend at LB, that crash could have been avoided. There was no way RHR was going to get past unless he was along side immediately coming out of the corner. The crash that killed Wheldon could have been avoided if the IRL didnt want to have a glory run for the old car and fielded less cars. Detroit race in 2012 where the track started to fall apart ruined the on track product. Detroit #2 2013 was full of silly crashes of people making half moves up the inside and clipping the outside car sending them in to a spin. in 2011, they tried to restart a race on a wet track causing several cars to spin out.
Im not saying that that doesnt happen in F1. There are crashes in F1 that are stupid, and shouldnt have happened, Maldonado Bahrain 2014 for example.
IRL cars look awkward on track, especially road tracks. they look better on ovals. They just look badly balanced with that massive, high, fat rear wing and the skinny front wing. They also look slow, the speed trap times and lap times show that they arent slow, but the looks slow on breaking and turn in, in particular. What was great about Champ Car, and whats great about F1 is that they are fast and nimble and are fun to watch going around a track. IRL cars dont produce that, due to the badly balanced looking cars.
Furthermore, IRL cars dont change. The cars that they race today are exactly the same as they raced in 2012 when they started using that particular car. Before that, the previous car barely changed since they started using them in 2002. Its the same every year. Sure the engines change slightly, from single turbo to twin turbo. But like you said the chassis is the same. What we as viewers see from the outside hasnt changed since 2012. They keep promising Aero-Kits, but I'll tell ya that it wont work, because every aero kit has to be available for every team, which means that every team will end up using the same one as they find out which one is the best and we are right back at square 1. In F1, we have the pleasure of seeing how teams deal with rule changes every year, whether it be the ban of EBD, the 2005, 2009, 2014 aero changes, the 2006, 2014 engine changes, the lower noses, the ban of traction control, the introduction of KERS and ERS, Tyre Changes every year. We also get innovation in F1 every year, double diffusers, F Duct, EBD, Coanda exhaust, the twin tusk nose. Even in Champ Car we saw some innovation as the teams were able to play around a bit. The gills we see on the rear wings above the wing itself was innovated by the Forsythe team in 2004 i think. The IRL gives us nothing to look forward to. Maybe there's something that I missed though.