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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:09 pm 
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johnp wrote:
on the positive side, it's always good to see the arrogant Ron Dennis fall on his pompous donkey


His trophy collection must be GROWING by leaps and bounds. ;) ;) ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:16 pm 
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Lewis was considerably faster than Jenson. I like how people say he showed well against Lewis. No he didn't. If McLaren didn't suck at strategy or pit stops, Lewis would've won all 3 years handily. Lots of drivers can show well when the car is great. It's the great ones who show well when the car isn't good. Button isn't that good. PEACE.


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:24 pm 
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See below statement from a thread in August.......... just saying!! Honda might be that turning point the team needs

If McLaren don't step up next year they really are in danger of being the new Williams, great history but mediocre at best, one more bad year and any decent guys they have left will move on.

They lost Lowe/Hamilton and gained a woeful Sam Michael, on top of Whitmarsh being a far less capable principal as Dennis they are in danger of an irreversible slide........... it's like Barcelona selling Messi, Xavi & Iniesta and bringing in Heskey, Gareth Barry and my nan - it would only go one way! (Although my nan is a little better than Heskey)

hamifan-butnotfanboy wrote:
Seanie wrote:
Calling them the next Williams is a bit presumptuous.

McLaren have something Williams never had, cash. There's a lot of money and resources there. Williams have always had to rely on sponsorship and new investment to go forward. McLaren have had that in place already.

I reckon they'll be back in the top 3 next season. Ron worked bloody hard to make sure those post Senna / pre-Newey days were a freak anomaly on the teams history.


My point was that if they continue to woefully underperform with the resources they have and lose talent (a process that has already started) the resources are put at risk, that's business.

My suggestion wasn't that they are the next Williams rather that they are in danger of having a started a cycle that could lead to them being like Williams...... I hope I'm wrong but personnel is a great indicator of what direction they are going in Michael/Lowe Perez/Hamilton


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:51 pm 
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McLaren need time before being judged. The car is not good but we know changes are being made and it would seem the team is going to have a huge in season development push. In F1 things take a few years to really change but by seasons end we will know more.

Button cannot be replaced. He has pretty much been consistently faster than Magnussen this year, even in Australia in practice he was a few tenths faster. Magnussen is doing a solid job but he will have to prove he is not a couple of tenths too slow for F1. Even if they somehow manage to bring in the big fish (Alonso) Button still has to stay unless they are really convinced he is not getting the most out of the car but that can become a bit of an emotional decision.


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:15 pm 
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Pimpwerx wrote:
Lewis was considerably faster than Jenson. I like how people say he showed well against Lewis. No he didn't. If McLaren didn't suck at strategy or pit stops, Lewis would've won all 3 years handily. Lots of drivers can show well when the car is great. It's the great ones who show well when the car isn't good. Button isn't that good. PEACE.

The worst was when they kept on pressing the crash into Massa button on the pit wall ;)

I agree Hamilton had the upper hand over Button but these types of comments which discredit Button entirely bug me, he ran Hamilton very close and if Mclaren provide him with a car that can win he will win. Button has never been the fastest, but he is not a poor/slow driver.


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:32 pm 
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benmc wrote:
My god there's a whole load of rubbish in this thread. The OP especially.

dizlexik wrote:
There were a lot of changes recently and they will have impact on team later. It's too early to say wheater the changes were for better or worse, but as Ferrari they are in crisis. It all went downhill during Dennis leadership in 2000s.


How did it? It's not like anybody could really compete with Ferrari when they had Brawn, Byrne, Todt, Schumacher, unlimited testing and tyres suited specifically to them. And once that era was over, the team won a WDC with Hamilton and would've won a WCC if not for spygate, in which Dennis had no involvement. They fought for drivers titles in 2003 and 2005 too.

But I guess anything other than multiple titles is 'downhill'. It's not like Ferrari and McLaren have a god given right to be up front and are underperforming if they aren't.

F1creep wrote:
Button to me is good enough to drive for McLaren but ideally alongside a very strong driver, like Hamilton/Alonso/Vettel. Hamilton/Button was a great pairing but now without a hard enforcer like Hammo the McLaren lineup looks weak. Right now McLaren has bigger problems than its drivers but I do believe they should go hunting for better drivers by the end of this year because clearly they can do better.


You're absolutely right that McLaren has bigger problems than their drivers.
But it's well known that McLaren see Button as a benchmark. And since Lewis left, they've spent two years trying to find a driver better than him. Perez, for all the promise he has shown, wasn't that driver. Based on what we've seen so far, nor is Magnussen. K-Mag does look like a solid talent, but he is lacking in raw pace compared to Jenson. I know it's early days, but racing drivers generally don't find an extra 0.2 seconds of speed overnight and Magnussen is going to have to do that if he is to lead the team next season. Otherwise, a Magnussen/Vandoorne combination would be a case of the blind leading the blind. In that scenario, McLaren had better hope that Vandoorne is the next Hamilton, otherwise they would seriously regret dumping Jenson.
Quite simply, McLaren need a known quantity in the team next year and that guy has to be either Jenson or Grosjean. We know how good Grosjean is relative to Kimi, and while Kimi has probably declined, he is surely still a top 10 driver. That's really all McLaren can do while they wait for the next Hamilton. I don't think Magnussen is the next Hamilton, he's probably the next Jenson.

Both Ferrari and McLaren changed their team principals. Bosses of both companies talk about fixing their teams. Are they wrong too?

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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:51 pm 
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Trhead are pathetic

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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:53 pm 
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dizlexik wrote:
benmc wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
There were a lot of changes recently and they will have impact on team later. It's too early to say wheater the changes were for better or worse, but as Ferrari they are in crisis. It all went downhill during Dennis leadership in 2000s.


How did it? It's not like anybody could really compete with Ferrari when they had Brawn, Byrne, Todt, Schumacher, unlimited testing and tyres suited specifically to them. And once that era was over, the team won a WDC with Hamilton and would've won a WCC if not for spygate, in which Dennis had no involvement. They fought for drivers titles in 2003 and 2005 too.

But I guess anything other than multiple titles is 'downhill'. It's not like Ferrari and McLaren have a god given right to be up front and are underperforming if they aren't.

Both Ferrari and McLaren changed their team principals. Bosses of both companies talk about fixing their teams. Are they wrong too?


McLaren? I agree they are in crisis, for a number of reasons. You said things went downhill during Dennis' past leadership, which I completely disagree with. The crisis started when they lost Lewis and took the new development direction at the end of 2012.
Ferrari? I don't think they are in crisis. They had four legends of the sport, and they all left at roughly the same time, and since then we've had two new sets of rule changes. There's no crisis, there's just a couple teams doing a better job. That happens sometimes. Dominance doesn't last forever.

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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:58 pm 
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benmc wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
benmc wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
There were a lot of changes recently and they will have impact on team later. It's too early to say wheater the changes were for better or worse, but as Ferrari they are in crisis. It all went downhill during Dennis leadership in 2000s.


How did it? It's not like anybody could really compete with Ferrari when they had Brawn, Byrne, Todt, Schumacher, unlimited testing and tyres suited specifically to them. And once that era was over, the team won a WDC with Hamilton and would've won a WCC if not for spygate, in which Dennis had no involvement. They fought for drivers titles in 2003 and 2005 too.

But I guess anything other than multiple titles is 'downhill'. It's not like Ferrari and McLaren have a god given right to be up front and are underperforming if they aren't.

Both Ferrari and McLaren changed their team principals. Bosses of both companies talk about fixing their teams. Are they wrong too?


McLaren? I agree they are in crisis, for a number of reasons. You said things went downhill during Dennis' past leadership, which I completely disagree with. The crisis started when they lost Lewis and took the new development direction at the end of 2012.
Ferrari? I don't think they are in crisis. They had four legends of the sport, and they all left at roughly the same time, and since then we've had two new sets of rule changes. There's no crisis, there's just a couple teams doing a better job. That happens sometimes. Dominance doesn't last forever.

I don't say they are destined to dominate. But they are clearly not where they want to be and recent developments confirm that.

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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:51 pm 
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McLaren and Lewis were made for each other and you could see the chemistry between them when any MP4 built to drive hit the track! I don't understand how as soon as Lewis left, things went the wrong way. It's too strange, look at Mercedes AMG. These teams are like night and day right now! One upped the game, the other one lost the mojo. I don't know why they were playing hardball with Hamilton. Someone brought 2011 season as an excuse that Lewis had been poor and always finished 4th or 5th in the standings. When Lewis was there, it was different. I'm disappointed really!
This is the same bullsh*t they started when Kimi was there and he left... Now you have that other German Team delivering the goods and giving Lewis everything he want, listening and accomodating the man. What was so bad in 2012, they just had to stay focused and win the title but they managed to ruin their chances even at that time! OP and any other fan have the right to complain. McLaren are really failing the fans lately, maybe they need to eat some humble pie and back to basics.
They never seem to learn tbh!

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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:05 pm 
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Seanie wrote:
Button is slow?

Is his teammate doing any better? No, the problem is the car, not the drivers.

Yeah I agree, not the fastest but certainly more smarter. Only have to look at Maldonado who is fast but frankly will crash out of F1.

As for Maca, far too quick to complain, far too early.

OP get over your self.


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:08 pm 
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Filip wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Ignoring the fact that this is a knee jerk reaction, you only have to look at Ferrari to see just how easy it can be for a top team to have a pretty rough patch that drags on for a while. Blaming Button is mere folly; he has more than proven himself an excellent driver on many occasions.

You dont end up WDC if you are even remotely fairy cakes, even with the best car.


I don't blame Button, i just think such team should have proper Number 1 driver, with positive influence on final result.

Like who?
Like Alonso who tried to bribe Ron? Like Lewis who lived there long enough and moved on?

Frankly number 1s are rare and drivers who can consistently do well are very rare. And every team mate except Lewis that Button has had has been a waste of space including Perez.


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:44 pm 
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I blame Martin Whitmarsh


Where is he anyway ? :p


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:22 am 
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Can't add anything to what Blinky and a few others have added to this complete fail of a thread. Some blinkered hatred manifesting from some, with little to add other than "omg buttons sucx, kill ron lol". Needless to say, Mclaren aren't the pathetic thing in this thread.

Just an idea here - Is it not too hard to believe that after both Mclarens were on the podium in Australia (after sensor-gate obviously) that Mercedes might have slowed the amount of feedback given on the engines, seeing them as a real potential threat?

Pure conjecture I know. But updates aerodynamically and with the engine are clearly the only reason Mclaren haven't quite stayed up the top, with today being the real low point so far - But I fully expect a turnaround very soon. The difference between this season and previous seasons is that the scope of development has been quite limited in previous seasons - particularly 2013 where the tub was flawed from the start. I just think that this year there are so many different possible solutions and answers that it's very possible to have some mistakes in direction. And a team with as much expertise as Mclaren will be able to bring it back.

It's just knee jerk after knee jerk.


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:33 am 
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The cars fairy cakes so lets sack Button. lol


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:34 am 
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beanchimp wrote:
I blame Martin Whitmarsh


Where is he anyway ? :p


I blame Lewis ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:34 am 
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GAZ811 wrote:
The cars fairy cakes so lets sack Button. lol


Could be worse, they could sack the TP ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:35 am 
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I couldn't disagree more, whilst some of the language (like McLaren are Pathetic) could be called emotive and a little over the top I think the sentiment is a fair one.

This team have and are underachieving and that decline can be associated with a number of poor decisions and shoddy management going back a good few years now. Personally I think dis-regarding all of the facts even when supported by performance such as today's is almost delusional!

Sevenfest wrote:
Can't add anything to what Blinky and a few others have added to this complete fail of a thread. Some blinkered hatred manifesting from some, with little to add other than "omg buttons sucx, kill ron lol". Needless to say, Mclaren aren't the pathetic thing in this thread.

Just an idea here - Is it not too hard to believe that after both Mclarens were on the podium in Australia (after sensor-gate obviously) that Mercedes might have slowed the amount of feedback given on the engines, seeing them as a real potential threat?

Pure conjecture I know. But updates aerodynamically and with the engine are clearly the only reason Mclaren haven't quite stayed up the top, with today being the real low point so far - But I fully expect a turnaround very soon. The difference between this season and previous seasons is that the scope of development has been quite limited in previous seasons - particularly 2013 where the tub was flawed from the start. I just think that this year there are so many different possible solutions and answers that it's very possible to have some mistakes in direction. And a team with as much expertise as Mclaren will be able to bring it back.

It's just knee jerk after knee jerk.


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:48 am 
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Lets be honest Mclaren has been badly run for years going back to 2007 where they managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:49 am 
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hamifan-butnotfanboy wrote:
I couldn't disagree more, whilst some of the language (like McLaren are Pathetic) could be called emotive and a little over the top I think the sentiment is a fair one.

This team have and are underachieving and that decline can be associated with a number of poor decisions and shoddy management going back a good few years now. Personally I think dis-regarding all of the facts even when supported by performance such as today's is almost delusional!


Sevenfest wrote:
Can't add anything to what Blinky and a few others have added to this complete fail of a thread. Some blinkered hatred manifesting from some, with little to add other than "omg buttons sucx, kill ron lol". Needless to say, Mclaren aren't the pathetic thing in this thread.

Just an idea here - Is it not too hard to believe that after both Mclarens were on the podium in Australia (after sensor-gate obviously) that Mercedes might have slowed the amount of feedback given on the engines, seeing them as a real potential threat?

Pure conjecture I know. But updates aerodynamically and with the engine are clearly the only reason Mclaren haven't quite stayed up the top, with today being the real low point so far - But I fully expect a turnaround very soon. The difference between this season and previous seasons is that the scope of development has been quite limited in previous seasons - particularly 2013 where the tub was flawed from the start. I just think that this year there are so many different possible solutions and answers that it's very possible to have some mistakes in direction. And a team with as much expertise as Mclaren will be able to bring it back.

It's just knee jerk after knee jerk.


So the car wasn't good at all in pre-season? Didn't show decent levels of downforce and straight line speed?

I'm well aware that Mclaren have made some terrible decisions in previous years. I do believe they cost Lewis a decent chance at the title in 2012 and that they have handled some situations in the past 10 years very badly.

You seem to have seen my avatar and assumed I'm some sort of Mclaren fanboy. You're wrong.
Cheers for the insults.


Last edited by Sevenfest on Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:53 am 
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What is funny for me is the fact that Force India who is using McLaren tech, using same engine and running team in less than half the budget is beating them. That should be shameful for McLaren. Force India are better at managing McLaren resources and equipment than Mclaren themselves. That should feel like slap on face to be honest.


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:04 am 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Un-freaking-believable.

To quote someone who actually knows what's going on...

Quote:
The OP and some other people in this thread seem to have an obvious lack of F1 understanding to make some of the claims they have been making here.


Why is it that some people panic, freak out, and play the blame game without any understanding of what's going on? Why on Earth does this have to happen, the obvious ignorance and blinkering of vision? Do any of these critics realize that in Bahrain McLaren tried out an experimental clutch package that forced both cars to retire? And if that had not happened ...

McLaren would be comfortably second in the World Constructor's standings, ahead of Red Bull, Force India, Ferrari, Lotus and Williams. Notwithstanding that, McLaren are presently third in the standings, just one point back of second, Force India.

McLaren are not the pathetic ones.


Yes but it did. A deliberate decision.
First you got to finish.
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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:13 pm 
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Read this earlier and I think it's true.

Button needs a car that is stable at the rear, that matches his smooth style of driving, unfortunately, rule changes for this season goes in the opposite direction of what Button desires to make him a success, No Blown floor, No Lower main beam wing, smaller rear wing which makes the car more difficult to drive, this does not suit Button's style of driving and it's showing in the McLaren team, they need someone who can cope with a less predictable rear end and that someone is driving for Mercedes at the moment, those fat wishbones were an attempt to bring stability to the rear of the car but anything that blocks the air from passing the rear of the car destroys the aero, thus, the car is slower!

McLaren are in trouble because the new rules goes against their team leader's style of racing!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:17 pm 
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They should rename the thread to "Official Button Bashing PF1 thread".

Crap thread, i say. Jenson Button is an excellent driver.

Shame on you OP.


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:54 pm 
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expect this to continue until the 2016 season as there work on the car will be more on 2015 and then in comes honda with there new engines and idont think they will run 100% out the box

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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:55 pm 
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Didn't Jenson said that he always wanted his own team, now that he has one he can't blame nobody else. In the last 2 seasons mclaren have given him everything he asked for, when he will start taking some responsability for the results he is bringing to the team. At the end of the day he's not 100% to blame for it but he plays a big part of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:57 pm 
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Zblogger wrote:
Read this earlier and I think it's true.

Button needs a car that is stable at the rear, that matches his smooth style of driving, unfortunately, rule changes for this season goes in the opposite direction of what Button desires to make him a success, No Blown floor, No Lower main beam wing, smaller rear wing which makes the car more difficult to drive, this does not suit Button's style of driving and it's showing in the McLaren team, they need someone who can cope with a less predictable rear end and that someone is driving for Mercedes at the moment, those fat wishbones were an attempt to bring stability to the rear of the car but anything that blocks the air from passing the rear of the car destroys the aero, thus, the car is slower!

McLaren are in trouble because the new rules goes against their team leader's style of racing!!!!!


its like Magnussen said today they have no down-force or not enough and the reason button is not getting the car as goos as he wants is the same imho as dani in the red bull drivers like magnussen and dani are used to low down force so just get on with the job in hand

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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:04 pm 
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Ilovemyhaters wrote:
Didn't Jenson said that he always wanted his own team, now that he has one he can't blame nobody else. In the last 2 seasons mclaren have given him everything he asked for, when he will start taking some responsability for the results he is bringing to the team. At the end of the day he's not 100% to blame for it but he plays a big part of it.

Aside from a fast car.

It's not as if he's been saying they were balanced, they aren't they're difficult as ever. His team mates only confirm that.

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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:17 pm 
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So the McLaren team make a car that doesn't get the tires to the optimum temperature and that's Jenson Button's fault?

Where do these fans of the sport come from?


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:24 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Pimpwerx wrote:
Lewis was considerably faster than Jenson. I like how people say he showed well against Lewis. No he didn't. If McLaren didn't suck at strategy or pit stops, Lewis would've won all 3 years handily. Lots of drivers can show well when the car is great. It's the great ones who show well when the car isn't good. Button isn't that good. PEACE.

The worst was when they kept on pressing the crash into Massa button on the pit wall ;)

I agree Hamilton had the upper hand over Button but these types of comments which discredit Button entirely bug me, he ran Hamilton very close and if Mclaren provide him with a car that can win he will win. Button has never been the fastest, but he is not a poor/slow driver.


I agree with you Blackflag.

Hamilton and Button were close on race pace sometimes, though not all the time. But what does that say about Magnussen? He is well behind Jenson at the moment and he was supposed to be the savior of Mclaren.
If I were Mclaren I would recruit Hulkenberg and Alonso for next year. Hulkenberg has shown he can drive anything and is good at developping the car. Alonso you know can drive anything and has the racecraft needed to bring positive results no matter how bad the car is.


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:40 am 
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Ah, Mr Dennis we've been expecting you. Welcome to the middle order.
It seems there is a bit more to it than just pronouncing updates and demanding performance. They really are in the last chance saloon and if Honda don't hit the ground running then 2015 could be worse. As it is they are struggling for a sponsor. Last year they managed to fend off the challenge of Force India but unless they do some serious head scratching soon they will not be so fortunate this year.


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:56 pm 
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You'd hope that they'll have decent updates for Barcelona, if not their season is pretty much doomed.

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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:08 pm 
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Sevenfest wrote:
Can't add anything to what Blinky and a few others have added to this complete fail of a thread. Some blinkered hatred manifesting from some, with little to add other than "omg buttons sucx, kill ron lol". Needless to say, Mclaren aren't the pathetic thing in this thread.

Just an idea here - Is it not too hard to believe that after both Mclarens were on the podium in Australia (after sensor-gate obviously) that Mercedes might have slowed the amount of feedback given on the engines, seeing them as a real potential threat?

Pure conjecture I know. But updates aerodynamically and with the engine are clearly the only reason Mclaren haven't quite stayed up the top, with today being the real low point so far - But I fully expect a turnaround very soon. The difference between this season and previous seasons is that the scope of development has been quite limited in previous seasons - particularly 2013 where the tub was flawed from the start. I just think that this year there are so many different possible solutions and answers that it's very possible to have some mistakes in direction. And a team with as much expertise as Mclaren will be able to bring it back.

It's just knee jerk after knee jerk.

If you start bringing the engine into it then you are surely just looking for a scapegoat, i am sure McLaren would prefer to have the Ferrari or Renault powered engines given that even Toro Rosso were able to beat them, but then again maybe not?

However McLaren themselves have acknowledged that the car itself is very heat sensitive to the tyres, they struggle if its either too cold or too hot.

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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:29 pm 
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Zblogger wrote:
Read this earlier and I think it's true.

Button needs a car that is stable at the rear, that matches his smooth style of driving, unfortunately, rule changes for this season goes in the opposite direction of what Button desires to make him a success, No Blown floor, No Lower main beam wing, smaller rear wing which makes the car more difficult to drive, this does not suit Button's style of driving and it's showing in the McLaren team, they need someone who can cope with a less predictable rear end and that someone is driving for Mercedes at the moment, those fat wishbones were an attempt to bring stability to the rear of the car but anything that blocks the air from passing the rear of the car destroys the aero, thus, the car is slower!

McLaren are in trouble because the new rules goes against their team leader's style of racing!!!!!

Well all of this is not stopping Button from beating Magnussen, so..........

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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:34 pm 
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Unfortunately if Jenson does not take some responsibility for his performance and thereby do something to improve it .... Then we will not see him in F1 next year , he is too complacent and to eager to jump out of the car and blame all and sundry for poor performances . Ron Dennis is no Whitmarsh and will not cover for him .
He needs to pull on all his experience and use it to wrestle with that car and get something decent out of it as we see with Alonso . I refuse to believe that this years Mclaren is that bad it is no worse than the Ferrari . Williams and Force India


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:34 pm 
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Unfortunately if Jenson does not take some responsibility for his performance and thereby do something to improve it .... Then we will not see him in F1 next year , he is too complacent and to eager to jump out of the car and blame all and sundry for poor performances . Ron Dennis is no Whitmarsh and will not cover for him .
He needs to pull on all his experience and use it to wrestle with that car and get something decent out of it as we see with Alonso . I refuse to believe that this years Mclaren is that bad it is no worse than the Ferrari . Williams and Force India


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:11 pm 
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Qiwater wrote:
Unfortunately if Jenson does not take some responsibility for his performance and thereby do something to improve it .... Then we will not see him in F1 next year , he is too complacent and to eager to jump out of the car and blame all and sundry for poor performances . Ron Dennis is no Whitmarsh and will not cover for him .
He needs to pull on all his experience and use it to wrestle with that car and get something decent out of it as we see with Alonso . I refuse to believe that this years Mclaren is that bad it is no worse than the Ferrari . Williams and Force India


I myself believe that a driver like Hamilton or Alonso would get more out of that car but one way or the other McLaren wouldn't do much with this car, whoever is driving it. McLaren's chief problem right now is very much the car although they could have better drivers. Blaming JB for the car is also pretty pointless.


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:31 pm 
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I am not going to weigh in on the "Is Jenson Button the right man for the job" debate as i will be biased as i have a major man crush on the guy.

However i will agree that McLaren need to do a better Job. The size of the outfit, and the money they have at their disposal you would expect better results.

Last year the car was designed with such a narrow set up window that neither driver could get the performace out of it like they showed in 2012. This year Boulier has come out and said the car has been designed with a narrow tyre heating window... too cold or too hot and they are scuppered!

Sure they took 2nd and 3rd in Aus where the temprature was right for them, and we may see another couple of optimum temprature races where they do well but thats not enough to win a championship or at this rate even a race!

And we have to be honest that their last major championship victory in 2008 only came about because they stole the design from Ferrari :( Before then they had the skills of Adrien Newey designing the 98 and 99 cars... they lack a good design department.

Okay they are trying to improve it, but this whole saga with Mr Fallows is a joke... so they poach a guy from the Championship Team... only for him to change his mind and want to go back to RBR? Cant even retain good staff before they have even started work? Come on thats rediculous!

To me this feels all too similar to the Williams downfall of the late 90's early Millenium... just 10 years down the line!

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3) McLaren to score at least 1 point... but to spend the season fighting with Manor-


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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:48 pm 
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CanadianDan wrote:
I am not going to weigh in on the "Is Jenson Button the right man for the job" debate as i will be biased as i have a major man crush on the guy.

However i will agree that McLaren need to do a better Job. The size of the outfit, and the money they have at their disposal you would expect better results.

Last year the car was designed with such a narrow set up window that neither driver could get the performace out of it like they showed in 2012. This year Boulier has come out and said the car has been designed with a narrow tyre heating window... too cold or too hot and they are scuppered!

Sure they took 2nd and 3rd in Aus where the temprature was right for them, and we may see another couple of optimum temprature races where they do well but thats not enough to win a championship or at this rate even a race!

And we have to be honest that their last major championship victory in 2008 only came about because they stole the design from Ferrari :( Before then they had the skills of Adrien Newey designing the 98 and 99 cars... they lack a good design department.

Okay they are trying to improve it, but this whole saga with Mr Fallows is a joke... so they poach a guy from the Championship Team... only for him to change his mind and want to go back to RBR? Cant even retain good staff before they have even started work? Come on thats rediculous!

To me this feels all too similar to the Williams downfall of the late 90's early Millenium... just 10 years down the line!

I think you are getting ahead of yourself if you think that they got hold of the Ferrari designs and went back in time to build the 2007 car, the 2008 car was merely an upgrade.

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 Post subject: Re: Mclaren is pathetic
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:23 pm 
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Qiwater wrote:
Unfortunately if Jenson does not take some responsibility for his performance and thereby do something to improve it .... Then we will not see him in F1 next year , he is too complacent and to eager to jump out of the car and blame all and sundry for poor performances . Ron Dennis is no Whitmarsh and will not cover for him .
He needs to pull on all his experience and use it to wrestle with that car and get something decent out of it as we see with Alonso . I refuse to believe that this years Mclaren is that bad it is no worse than the Ferrari . Williams and Force India


McLaren have admitted that the car doesn't work as it should in hot or cold extremes and this is in no way Jenson Buttons fault. Get over your hatred of the guy


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