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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:04 pm 
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I recall in the buildup a lot people alluded to Lewis taking a hit this season because of his "less cerebral" and more "brute force" approach to F1. All manner of people, highly and lowly regarded alike, were spouting this foolishness. I guess same as with the move to Mercedes they may be forced to eat their words. A person smarter than myself once told me to be wary of prognosticators, because they mainly offer opinions with no accountability (read skin the game)...apparently the people with skin in the game (Mercedes and Mclaren thought he was going to be "cerebral" enough for this era). Cerebral....they are not paid to design the damn car !!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:06 pm 
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:lol:

I only ever had a question over how long it took him to adapt to changes. Well these changes have been a doddle for him

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:12 pm 
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Cerebralism is a moot point with a highly dominate car and a slower teammate. I was, however, one of those who thought going to Mercedes was a brilliant move considering the rule changes for 2014.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:14 pm 
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Cerebral cerebral cerebral... Lol

Anyway Hamilton is a genius racer. I always said this.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:16 pm 
I'm happy for Lewis. I understand your desire to tell doubters to stuff it. Let Lewis's wins do the talking. Right now the sound is deafening


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:23 pm 
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silkjet wrote:
I'm happy for Lewis. I understand your desire to tell doubters to stuff it. Let Lewis's wins do the talking. Right now the sound is deafening


Fair one silkjet. The cerebral stuff was just hard to take...it seemed like a sly way of saying he was too dumb for the new era. Its not like he was pushing shopping carts (at a high rate of speed with little regard for tires) around a grocery store in the previous years.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:29 pm 
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Yep, I think there have been a few overstated opinions on this one, all bullshit, they’re all very intelligent IMO.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:37 pm 
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He's not only shut up the critics this yr but also general fans
My heart sank when he announced the move to Mercedes but he's come up smelling of roses
Stay focused Lewis if you can pull this yrs championship off there will Defo be a tear in my eye if you do
Hope the last race double points is quashed ASAP also, because reckon it will break a few hearts if it isn't ;(


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:03 pm 
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I feel like this season he's been making not entirely subtle attempts to overcome this misconception about him. He's talking a lot more details in interview, little snippets in his columns, etc.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:05 pm 
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Hamilton really came of age in 2012. He was magnificent that season.

Anyone who hasn't rated him since is a bit daft IMO.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:23 pm 
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He's grown up.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:27 pm 
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He's always been one of the better drivers at coping with a tail happy car. The high-torque nature of the current crop of engines, and harder tyres than we've had for some time plays right into his hands.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:40 pm 
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He had one bad season. Everyone has one. You're not defined by the few low points in your carer, but by the abundance of good you do. Lewis has always been this good. He just didn't have a dominant car to show it. PEACE.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:17 pm 
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I reAly thought it was a cerebral move by him. :-)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:19 pm 
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He's celebral enough.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:22 pm 
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It's the haircut. It's a difference maker!! (of course he's cerebral enough...especially in that rocket ship).

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:24 pm 
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Being analytical and smart is over rated in racing. Smart enough is all you need so long as you have abundant talent.

Hamilton was going to get a kicking from Nico this year, because Rosberg's got the degree and likes the detail. He's had access to the fine details of where Lewis has been faster, smoother, more economical. But you simply can't translate data into ability to get the best out of a car that actually needs to be driven.

Prost was known as the Professor. He was smart enough to pinch Mansell's chassis at Ferarri. He was tactical enough to get wins that his raw talent alone didn't justify and had the wisdom to block Senna joining him at Williams in 1993. But Senna was always the better driver of the two. He was smart enough, but ultimately had more talent.

Changing the rules this year to get rid of the EBD and the very efficient front wing, plus making much more power available under the driver's left foot means that contrary to all predictions, it's a year for driver talent. Not for technicians, certainly not for one trick ponies like Vettel.

.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:27 pm 
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I feel him to be an emotional and instinctive driver but lacking interllect? kind of dumb thing to say of him, anyhow I think I may get a merc cap for the wall this year.
Ps He has sideburns like me so I know he was destined for great things as soon as he grew them.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:44 pm 
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Don't please... don't get my flags up ... Don't get me started on this one.. Much foolishness has been
thrown at Lewis but this one grated my very last nerve .. Of all the cheek


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:04 pm 
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Vettel was a genius when he had a dominant car. Now he's a petulant child.

Hamilton was considered headstrong and mistake-prone when trying to keep up with a dominant car. Now he's a genius.

I always find it amusing; the extend to which F1 fans try to attribute success or failure to the drivers. F1 is a series where the technology is king. The drivers are only about 20% of the equation. Of course, the team is a massive factor too. In 2012 Hamilton drove brilliantly and had a car with truly competitive pace but the team made errors in almost every race and it ultimately cost them the titles.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:43 pm 
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Hey Blake I hope you read this and officially approve the use of some choice words in this context...

Whomever said, thought, felt, or even suggested Lewis is not cerebral enough in any capacity is a moron.

Going back to his days in karts he continuously displayed his mental strength and stability and high acumen. To see a 13-year old calculating his every move while driving one handed as he adjusted his carbs and then beating older, more seasoned drivers consistently was a HUGE sign of the organ residing inside his skullcap. With time he's only grown stronger and better with the exception of the 1 year his mind was more focused on his personal life than anything else.

We've seen in Lewis many of the abilities and the testicular fortitude seen in many other all-time greats. Amazing car control, speed, quickness, for the most part patience, an area in which he continues to grow, and all of it has allowed him to pull out wins and performances we see in drivers like Alonso, Schumacher, Prost, Senna and a few others, and he's done this throughout his career. Less we forget that McLaren cost him at least 1 championship when he drove splendidly well.


Less anyone forget, this is the same guy who burst on the scene as a teammate to the reigning 2-time defending champion and he not only held his own against him but was cerebral enough not to let ANYTHING his teammate or team said rattle him. He made a couple of mistakes of his own accord through nothing more than inexperience, but that's no different than any other elite driver in history.

Lewis is a BRILLIANT young man and a sensational driver and he had to win me over, as I was not initially a fan. His continued brilliance and consistency has proven his worth and this season he's been unstoppable thus far and would be leading the championship by a good margin had his issue down undah not killed his race.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:31 am 
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Lewis is smart enough to have learned from Jenson when they were team-mates. Jenson was easier on tyres and had that smooth driving style, and finished ahead of Lewis one year.

I rate Lewis as the fastest driver in terms of raw speed but he doesn't get the same level of results from his equipment as Fernando. That is where he still can improve. It's in making decisions where Lewis has had most of his problems. His year of the battles with Filipe was an example. But he has been improving in that area too. Its not an intellect thing. Its a mixture of emotions and decision making.

Lewis has been adding to his driving over the years and he has the advantage that he can drive a car in any style he chooses to, so he is not a one trick pony where the car has to suit his style, like some of the other drivers seem to be.

Rosberg isn't as fast as Lewis in terms of raw speed, but he works very hard at everything else to try to get as much advantage as he can. Once again as with Jenson, Lewis is noting what his team-mate is good at and learning from that.

Although I think Lewis is the fastest driver, I rate Fernando as the best driver. Fernando makes better decisions.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:36 am 
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Haters just spout this rubbish because they think Lewis will actually take an interest in what they have to say. Lewis so far has proven to have adapted to these changes in the most effective way with a hatrick of wins, 3 pole positions and 1 fastest lap going into round 5. EAT YOUR WORDS HATERS!!!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:49 am 
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I think you've made that up, no one would use the term cerebral.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:10 am 
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I'm sure that most would agree that Nico probably has a higher general IQ than Lewis.

But this is irrelevant when it comes to racing IQ - an entirely different thing.

Have to admit that I thought this season would favour the more 'generally intelligent' driver.

Turns out I was wrong.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:41 am 
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Seanie wrote:
I think you've made that up, no one would use the term cerebral.

I use it almost every day. But then ......... I am a brain surgeon. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:43 am 
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semper paratus wrote:
I recall in the buildup a lot people alluded to Lewis taking a hit this season because of his "less cerebral" and more "brute force" approach to F1.

Gee, seeing asleep Max Chilton would have easily won yesterday's race, I'd like to see on what exactly you're basing this on. Yes, slowly coasting when 4 people behind you in far slower cars fight among themselves for last podium slot, slowing each other down, shows you're 'cerebral'. Except, not x(


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:01 am 
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Seanie wrote:
I think you've made that up, no one would use the term cerebral.

That was the exact word used for some reason

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:35 am 
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Seanie wrote:
I think you've made that up, no one would use the term cerebral.

You were not paying attention at the end of last season and pre-season; the term was bandied about quite liberally.....no straw man here.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:47 am 
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Irbis wrote:
semper paratus wrote:
I recall in the buildup a lot people alluded to Lewis taking a hit this season because of his "less cerebral" and more "brute force" approach to F1.

Gee, seeing asleep Max Chilton would have easily won yesterday's race, I'd like to see on what exactly you're basing this on. Yes, slowly coasting when 4 people behind you in far slower cars fight among themselves for last podium slot, slowing each other down, shows you're 'cerebral'. Except, not x(


I have read your post a few times and cannot grasp your meaning. The "cerebral" comments during the build up were regarding all the management functions (tires, fuel, strategy (when to use the fuel)) a driver would be responsible for in the new formula. I would say he and the team have managed these issues quite well thus far. To be clear, I am saying the people who claimed he was not smart enough for the current formula made a bold and incorrect prediction..... thus far (based on current evidence). In addition, I would think holding off a teammate (who had a faster car) for ten laps while managing all listed functions could be considered evidence of smarts.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:57 am 
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I don't see how this season has proved anything about Lewis so far. All it tells us is that he's a slightly better driver than Nico Rosberg, and everybody already knew that. People are playing up Nico's talents now because Lewis hasn't beaten him as comfortably as people had expected before he joined Merc (much like how people played up Jenson's talents after all the predictions Lewis would destroy him at McLaren didn't come to pass)

All he has to do to win any given race is not be slower than Nico, who is an average driver. And there's been a couple of times where he's failed to do that, which has only resulted in him actually receiving more praise because he made tough work of it in Bahrain, whereas a more accomplished driver would have been leaving Nico for dust and getting berated for "not having a good team-mate"


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:59 am 
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im pretty sure it was prost who made the comment. I remember the article on the pf1 front page and it annoyed me then lol.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:04 pm 
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steoc4 wrote:
I don't see how this season has proved anything about Lewis so far. All it tells us is that he's a slightly better driver than Nico Rosberg, and everybody already knew that. People are playing up Nico's talents now because Lewis hasn't beaten him as comfortably as people had expected before he joined Merc (much like how people played up Jenson's talents after all the predictions Lewis would destroy him at McLaren didn't come to pass)

All he has to do to win any given race is not be slower than Nico, who is an average driver. And there's been a couple of times where he's failed to do that, which has only resulted in him actually receiving more praise because he made tough work of it in Bahrain, whereas a more accomplished driver would have been leaving Nico for dust and getting berated for "not having a good team-mate"


the argument heading into the season was he would struggle to succeed where more thinking drivers (teammate included) would thrive....he has not struggled and has proven to be efficient/thinking enough to manage his car's resources. That is my post distilled to essential elements. Thus far, this appears to be true. As far as proving things..it shows he may not be as pure "brute force" as once believed...the classic "quick but thick" criticism.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:07 pm 
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steoc4 wrote:
I don't see how this season has proved anything about Lewis so far. All it tells us is that he's a slightly better driver than Nico Rosberg, and everybody already knew that. People are playing up Nico's talents now because Lewis hasn't beaten him as comfortably as people had expected before he joined Merc (much like how people played up Jenson's talents after all the predictions Lewis would destroy him at McLaren didn't come to pass)

All he has to do to win any given race is not be slower than Nico, who is an average driver. And there's been a couple of times where he's failed to do that, which has only resulted in him actually receiving more praise because he made tough work of it in Bahrain, whereas a more accomplished driver would have been leaving Nico for dust and getting berated for "not having a good team-mate"


>trying this hard

It's hard enough to adapt to a new rule. But remember he is faster in a new team where his teammate has already been there since it's inception. He is not Vettel, one to drive as fast as he could, as much as he could. If it was Vettel, that last lap would have been purple. He did enough to win the race, and that's it. Why push more? The engines are limited nowadays and for a driver that has mishaps like he did in McLaren it's obvious that he would want to save his machine more than ever now he's in a good chance to win the WDC again

Also you said that a couple of time he fails to show he's better than Nico. When was that? Everytime there was a wet qualifying, he had been faster, where else Nico could not even beat a Red Bull (or two in China). the only time where Nico beats him to pole was in Bahrain, and even then after Nico shows his real pace on Saturday, he managed to win on Sunday. Note that he would have comfortably won had not the Safety Car came out. He calculated the pace needed on the softs where he eked a just enough lead while protecting that tyre that he did not need to push, even when the teams asked him to. In china where he has limited dry running, he immediately found grip on a green track where all the other drivers were complaining of graining.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:07 pm 
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steoc4 wrote:
[b]I don't see how this season has proved anything about Lewis so far. All it tells us is that he's a slightly better driver than Nico Rosberg, and everybody already knew that. People are playing up Nico's talents now because Lewis hasn't beaten him as comfortably as people had expected before he joined Merc (much like how people played up Jenson's talents after all the predictions Lewis would destroy him at McLaren didn't come to pass)[/b]

All he has to do to win any given race is not be slower than Nico, who is an average driver. And there's been a couple of times where he's failed to do that, which has only resulted in him actually receiving more praise because he made tough work of it in Bahrain, whereas a more accomplished driver would have been leaving Nico for dust and getting berated for "not having a good team-mate"

I generally agree - which is why I've said many times that Nico racing close to Lewis down-graded Lewis (IMO), rather than up-grading Nico.

But to look on the bright side, Lewis is out-driving Nico so far this season (and last year was Lewis' first season at the team). Although last season was distorted by the team orders.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:18 pm 
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LKS1 wrote:
steoc4 wrote:
[b]I don't see how this season has proved anything about Lewis so far. All it tells us is that he's a slightly better driver than Nico Rosberg, and everybody already knew that. People are playing up Nico's talents now because Lewis hasn't beaten him as comfortably as people had expected before he joined Merc (much like how people played up Jenson's talents after all the predictions Lewis would destroy him at McLaren didn't come to pass)[/b]

All he has to do to win any given race is not be slower than Nico, who is an average driver. And there's been a couple of times where he's failed to do that, which has only resulted in him actually receiving more praise because he made tough work of it in Bahrain, whereas a more accomplished driver would have been leaving Nico for dust and getting berated for "not having a good team-mate"

I generally agree - which is why I've said many times that Nico racing close to Lewis down-graded Lewis (IMO), rather than up-grading Nico.

But to look on the bright side, Lewis is out-driving Nico so far this season (and last year was Lewis' first season at the team). Although last season was distorted by the team orders.


Far too early to make the call over the better driver. We are still in the phase of adaptation to the new cars; as it is the Merc drivers have no competition other than each other, so at the moment there is little evidence regarding the cerebral abilities of either driver. Indeed if the season continues to pan out the way it currently is, then both championships will be almost meaningless competition wise.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:20 pm 
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semper paratus wrote:
steoc4 wrote:
I don't see how this season has proved anything about Lewis so far. All it tells us is that he's a slightly better driver than Nico Rosberg, and everybody already knew that. People are playing up Nico's talents now because Lewis hasn't beaten him as comfortably as people had expected before he joined Merc (much like how people played up Jenson's talents after all the predictions Lewis would destroy him at McLaren didn't come to pass)

All he has to do to win any given race is not be slower than Nico, who is an average driver. And there's been a couple of times where he's failed to do that, which has only resulted in him actually receiving more praise because he made tough work of it in Bahrain, whereas a more accomplished driver would have been leaving Nico for dust and getting berated for "not having a good team-mate"


the argument heading into the season was he would struggle to succeed where more thinking drivers (teammate included) would thrive....he has not struggled and has proven to be efficient/thinking enough to manage his car's resources. That is my post distilled to essential elements. Thus far, this appears to be true. As far as proving things..it shows he may not be as pure "brute force" as once believed...the classic "quick but thick" criticism.


But the thing is that it's impossible to tell if other drivers are thriving compared to him. Fernando Alonso beating Kimi by over a minute certainly looks like a driver who's thriving, but because his car is fundamentally worthless compared to the Mercedes then he has no chance of getting to the top.

Lewis is beating Nico Rosberg, but nowhere near that comfortably. In China, Nico's qualifying lap was faster than Lewis up until he made a mistake and blew it, then spent the race compromised for track position and also without telemetry. Meanwhile Lewis messed up qualifying with a big mistake himself in Bahrain, but the car was so dominant there that even without a remotely clean qualifying lap he was still on the front row with a good chance of getting first into turn 1, which he did. And Nico stayed on top of him for the whole first stint, until Mercedes compromised his strategy and put him on the worst tyres for the longest stint.

So all we can say is that he's doing better than Nico, but not by that much. And that's not a massive ringing endorsement right now.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:22 pm 
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Neutrality wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
steoc4 wrote:
[b]I don't see how this season has proved anything about Lewis so far. All it tells us is that he's a slightly better driver than Nico Rosberg, and everybody already knew that. People are playing up Nico's talents now because Lewis hasn't beaten him as comfortably as people had expected before he joined Merc (much like how people played up Jenson's talents after all the predictions Lewis would destroy him at McLaren didn't come to pass)[/b]

All he has to do to win any given race is not be slower than Nico, who is an average driver. And there's been a couple of times where he's failed to do that, which has only resulted in him actually receiving more praise because he made tough work of it in Bahrain, whereas a more accomplished driver would have been leaving Nico for dust and getting berated for "not having a good team-mate"

I generally agree - which is why I've said many times that Nico racing close to Lewis down-graded Lewis (IMO), rather than up-grading Nico.

But to look on the bright side, Lewis is out-driving Nico so far this season (and last year was Lewis' first season at the team). Although last season was distorted by the team orders.


Far too early to make the call over the better driver. We are still in the phase of adaptation to the new cars; as it is the Merc drivers have no competition other than each other, so at the moment there is little evidence regarding the cerebral abilities of either driver. Indeed if the season continues to pan out the way it currently is, then both championships will be almost meaningless competition wise.

True, but bearing in mind no other team can compete with Merc - general intelligence has not proven itself to be superior to race intelligence IMO.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:34 pm 
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LKS1 wrote:
Neutrality wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
steoc4 wrote:
[b]I don't see how this season has proved anything about Lewis so far. All it tells us is that he's a slightly better driver than Nico Rosberg, and everybody already knew that. People are playing up Nico's talents now because Lewis hasn't beaten him as comfortably as people had expected before he joined Merc (much like how people played up Jenson's talents after all the predictions Lewis would destroy him at McLaren didn't come to pass)[/b]

All he has to do to win any given race is not be slower than Nico, who is an average driver. And there's been a couple of times where he's failed to do that, which has only resulted in him actually receiving more praise because he made tough work of it in Bahrain, whereas a more accomplished driver would have been leaving Nico for dust and getting berated for "not having a good team-mate"

I generally agree - which is why I've said many times that Nico racing close to Lewis down-graded Lewis (IMO), rather than up-grading Nico.

But to look on the bright side, Lewis is out-driving Nico so far this season (and last year was Lewis' first season at the team). Although last season was distorted by the team orders.


Far too early to make the call over the better driver. We are still in the phase of adaptation to the new cars; as it is the Merc drivers have no competition other than each other, so at the moment there is little evidence regarding the cerebral abilities of either driver. Indeed if the season continues to pan out the way it currently is, then both championships will be almost meaningless competition wise.

True, but bearing in mind no other team can compete with Merc - general intelligence has not proven itself to be superior to race intelligence IMO.


My point exactly, both drivers are in a position to almost know exactly what their teammate is doing thus no need to think strategically; additionally neither driver is willing to risk taking his teammate off so won't push to the limits in attack, as seen in Bahrain.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:35 pm 
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To be fair he has only to beat the (in my opinion) not that great of a driver that is Nico Rosberg.


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