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 Post subject: WWF1
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:35 pm 
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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113621
The next step in the quest to make F1 more profitable involves design changes targeted not at performance but 'blingness'.

I really dislike this continual impure tinkering (double points, DRS, exhaust megaphones, shorter races, etc.) aimed at increasing casual viewers and therefore revenue. Next they'll be introducing unnecessary safety cars during ad breaks (I'm sure this already happens in NASCAR).

I propose two races each weekend: 'WWF1' with fixed results to maximise excitement for casual fans, and 'PureF1' for the proper fans.


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 Post subject: Re: WWF1
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:48 pm 
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To be fair, this seems to be just one of those "blue sky" meetings that sticks a load of weird proposals together with most of them never going any further than a brief mention.

I guess a lot of the discussion about making F1 more "spectacular" stems from the incessant bitching we've been hearing this year over the fact that the new engines are something like 7db quieter than the old ones.

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 Post subject: Re: WWF1
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:22 pm 
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You say you are a purest? But you opose seeing sparks and glowing break discs... two specticals from the pure days of F1?

Interesting!

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 Post subject: Re: WWF1
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:23 pm 
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[/quote]
CanadianDan wrote:
You say you are a purest? But you opose seeing sparks and glowing break discs... two specticals from the pure days of F1?

Interesting!
Pure to me means striving for perfection in terms of maximum performance (such as aerodynamic brake ducts that reduce drag by diverting airflow around the front wheels and aid brake cooling). Reintroducing retro design philosophy just to improve the show seems slightly contrived to me. All IMHO of course :)


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 Post subject: Re: WWF1
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:45 pm 
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Pedrosa_4_Ever wrote:
To be fair, this seems to be just one of those "blue sky" meetings that sticks a load of weird proposals together with most of them never going any further than a brief mention.
I hope you're right - I assumed the same about double points...


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 Post subject: Re: WWF1
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:59 pm 
Flavio Briatore understood this issue. While Formula One is basically technical, the casual fans know very little, and probably don't care. But Formula One is also an entertainment medium, it broadcasts to millions each race, and attempts to reach as broad a spectrum as possible. So there are basically two classes of fans, those invested and interested in it (as is most in this forum) and the average bloke on the street who will tune in a race only because he desires to be entertained.

I come from way back, when the only people who cared, or even knew about Formula One were die-hard racing fans. Back then the only news that reached the general public was who won Indy, and who died. But the fans scoured the newspapers for any information, subscribed to specialty periodicals, and read about the racing in automotive magazines. We were willing to drive hundreds of miles and spend the weekend in miserable conditions just to see racing, our passion. Of course, these days Formula One is incredibly accessible, with global television coverage and the internet.

Formula One always seeks to grow it's fan base. First you have to get someone interested, then convert them slowly. And to get them interested, you have to lean more towards the entertainment side than the technical.

I went to the trouble of watching a Lady Gaga concert (on TV), and what I saw was a performer with an average voice, barely average piano skills. But she puts together an entertainment package that appeals to millions. It isn't about the quality of the performance, it's about being entertained.

It's the same with Formula One, long gone are the days where nothing mattered but the racing, now the emphasis is shifting towards entertaining. And if displaying red hot brake disks, or flames shooting out of the exhaust, or even interviewing the drivers post-race draws in more fans, then that is probably the direction this sport will go.

More and more each day, I am starting to believe the Indian government's classification of Formula One as entertainment rather than a sport was correct.


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 Post subject: Re: WWF1
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:33 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Flavio Briatore understood this issue. While Formula One is basically technical, the casual fans know very little, and probably don't care. But Formula One is also an entertainment medium, it broadcasts to millions each race, and attempts to reach as broad a spectrum as possible. So there are basically two classes of fans, those invested and interested in it (as is most in this forum) and the average bloke on the street who will tune in a race only because he desires to be entertained.

I come from way back, when the only people who cared, or even knew about Formula One were die-hard racing fans. Back then the only news that reached the general public was who won Indy, and who died. But the fans scoured the newspapers for any information, subscribed to specialty periodicals, and read about the racing in automotive magazines. We were willing to drive hundreds of miles and spend the weekend in miserable conditions just to see racing, our passion. Of course, these days Formula One is incredibly accessible, with global television coverage and the internet.

Formula One always seeks to grow it's fan base. First you have to get someone interested, then convert them slowly. And to get them interested, you have to lean more towards the entertainment side than the technical.

I went to the trouble of watching a Lady Gaga concert (on TV), and what I saw was a performer with an average voice, barely average piano skills. But she puts together an entertainment package that appeals to millions. It isn't about the quality of the performance, it's about being entertained.

It's the same with Formula One, long gone are the days where nothing mattered but the racing, now the emphasis is shifting towards entertaining. And if displaying red hot brake disks, or flames shooting out of the exhaust, or even interviewing the drivers post-race draws in more fans, then that is probably the direction this sport will go.

More and more each day, I am starting to believe the Indian government's classification of Formula One as entertainment rather than a sport was correct.
It's certainly heading in that direction. However, while F1 remains the pinnacle of open-wheeled motorsport I continue to be drawn-in. But it's frustrating to see the key elements of cutting-edge engineering, interesting characters, and intense rivalry eroded by the introduction of what I consider gimmicks primarily designed to increase viewing figures (and therefore revenue from manufacturers, sponsors, and TV companies). Perhaps F1 has grown too lucrative for it's own good? Do sporting championships have to continually grow to remain viable (much like public traded companies)? Or is it simply that the sport is being exploited?

Don't get me wrong I still enjoy the races, but the overall experience peaked a few years ago for me.


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 Post subject: Re: WWF1
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:49 pm 
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this is a really big issue when you think about it seriously.
nobody (in their right mind) wants another spec series and nobody really wants an unlimited budget type series where money always wins.......
however, people, or rather real petrol headed type race fans do truly appreciate driver vs driver and team innovation vs team innovation. am I right? and of course, cash plays a large part in this.....
the entertainment in F1 is largely manufactured insofar as it is a product of the 'rules' - for real fans, the entertainment is in the sport itself, the underdog, the challenging conditions, and of course, the innovation of idea and design.......to gain the edge over the rest......or, in ideal circumstances, to 'design' oneself ahead of the rest....
I cannot honestly put my finger directly on it - but perhaps Red bull illustrate what is indeed possible, by attacking the 'field' with resources, skill and of course, cold hard cash - one can be successful - but equally, as they are finding right now - and others have found before them - success is short lived and is NOT definitive or dependent on past history...........
ultimately, I think is what makes F1 the pinnacle - that it is about pushing to the absolute limit - and when this is coupled with drivers who can and do do the same - it makes for a great spectacle.!
just my view....


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 Post subject: Re: WWF1
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:19 pm 
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FringeUK wrote:
this is a really big issue when you think about it seriously.
nobody (in their right mind) wants another spec series and nobody really wants an unlimited budget type series where money always wins.......
however, people, or rather real petrol headed type race fans do truly appreciate driver vs driver and team innovation vs team innovation. am I right? and of course, cash plays a large part in this.....
the entertainment in F1 is largely manufactured insofar as it is a product of the 'rules' - for real fans, the entertainment is in the sport itself, the underdog, the challenging conditions, and of course, the innovation of idea and design.......to gain the edge over the rest......or, in ideal circumstances, to 'design' oneself ahead of the rest....
I cannot honestly put my finger directly on it - but perhaps Red bull illustrate what is indeed possible, by attacking the 'field' with resources, skill and of course, cold hard cash - one can be successful - but equally, as they are finding right now - and others have found before them - success is short lived and is NOT definitive or dependent on past history...........
ultimately, I think is what makes F1 the pinnacle - that it is about pushing to the absolute limit - and when this is coupled with drivers who can and do do the same - it makes for a great spectacle.!
just my view....
There's definitely a balance between ensuring a roughly level playing field (not a spec series!), but also retaining the underdog element that can make the sport so rewarding to follow.

My concern is that the entertainment/profit side of the sport is becoming too prevalent. The following is an extract from Wikipedia regarding the use of caution (safety) cars that may serve as a warning concerning the current direction F1 is taking:

Quote:
In April 2007, driver Tony Stewart said on his own radio show, "It's like playing God. They can almost dictate the race instead of the drivers doing it…I don't know that they've run a fair race all year." Stewart also made references to professional wrestling institutions such as WWE, which have long been known for scripting matches.

In an unrelated interview, driver Matt Kenseth said, "There's for sure entertainment cautions, there's no doubt about that, but we're in the entertainment business and you're going to get some of that and group the field every once in a while." Driver and commentator, Kyle Petty, said, "We're in the entertainment business, if they want to throw a caution every 40 laps to keep everybody bunched up, so the fans have a better experience, more cautions, the better."[33]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_NASCAR#Manipulating_the_outcome_of_races


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 Post subject: Re: WWF1
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:15 pm
Posts: 2949
growers wrote:
FringeUK wrote:
this is a really big issue when you think about it seriously.
nobody (in their right mind) wants another spec series and nobody really wants an unlimited budget type series where money always wins.......
however, people, or rather real petrol headed type race fans do truly appreciate driver vs driver and team innovation vs team innovation. am I right? and of course, cash plays a large part in this.....
the entertainment in F1 is largely manufactured insofar as it is a product of the 'rules' - for real fans, the entertainment is in the sport itself, the underdog, the challenging conditions, and of course, the innovation of idea and design.......to gain the edge over the rest......or, in ideal circumstances, to 'design' oneself ahead of the rest....
I cannot honestly put my finger directly on it - but perhaps Red bull illustrate what is indeed possible, by attacking the 'field' with resources, skill and of course, cold hard cash - one can be successful - but equally, as they are finding right now - and others have found before them - success is short lived and is NOT definitive or dependent on past history...........
ultimately, I think is what makes F1 the pinnacle - that it is about pushing to the absolute limit - and when this is coupled with drivers who can and do do the same - it makes for a great spectacle.!
just my view....
There's definitely a balance between ensuring a roughly level playing field (not a spec series!), but also retaining the underdog element that can make the sport so rewarding to follow.

My concern is that the entertainment/profit side of the sport is becoming too prevalent. The following is an extract from Wikipedia regarding the use of caution (safety) cars that may serve as a warning concerning the current direction F1 is taking:

Quote:
In April 2007, driver Tony Stewart said on his own radio show, "It's like playing God. They can almost dictate the race instead of the drivers doing it…I don't know that they've run a fair race all year." Stewart also made references to professional wrestling institutions such as WWE, which have long been known for scripting matches.

In an unrelated interview, driver Matt Kenseth said, "There's for sure entertainment cautions, there's no doubt about that, but we're in the entertainment business and you're going to get some of that and group the field every once in a while." Driver and commentator, Kyle Petty, said, "We're in the entertainment business, if they want to throw a caution every 40 laps to keep everybody bunched up, so the fans have a better experience, more cautions, the better."[33]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_NASCAR#Manipulating_the_outcome_of_races

I don't really think we have a problem with phantom safety cars in F1. Yeah, they do probably go on to long but, this season, it's only been called out once and that was probably a dangerous enough situation (damaged car stuck on the edge of the track in a big breaking xone) to warrant it.

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"It's hammer time!"

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Greg Moore - Dan Wheldon


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 Post subject: Re: WWF1
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:56 pm 
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Quote:
They include standing starts after safety cars, a potential reduction in race length, and the green light for higher technology to be used in pitstops to cut the time even further.

They already started with this bit. Which by the way is my least favorite of all the ideas posited in the article.

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 Post subject: Re: WWF1
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:07 am 
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RaggedMan wrote:
Quote:
They include standing starts after safety cars, a potential reduction in race length, and the green light for higher technology to be used in pitstops to cut the time even further.

They already started with this bit. Which by the way is my least favorite of all the ideas posited in the article.

Are we talking about the screw-up last race :lol: ? Otherwise race length hasn't changed in years...

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"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea."

"It's hammer time!"

British Driver Supporter (and Daniel Ricciardo)

Greg Moore - Dan Wheldon


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 Post subject: Re: WWF1
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:18 am 
Formula One is the name of the sport, but each individual race is called "Grand Prix". That label goes back a long ways, and carries something very tangilbe and heavy with history. When people started racing cars, there were countless races and formats. But soon some semblance of order developed and a very important format developed. Each nation hosted just one race, and it was the big one, the defining race for that nation's year. It was called the grand prize, the Grand Prix.

It was like winning Wimbledon, it was relevant, it meant something. People dedicated their lives to it, some people died chasing that dream, fortunes were lost and gained, it was real life and not some fake reality show.

So now we arrive at today where big money and massive television coverage has forced the "entertainment" factor into the equation.

Who knows what the future will bring, who knows what direction the sport will go, and who knows what the balance between purist competition and entertainment will settle into. Although I embrace and support the belief that everyone has the right to their beliefs and opinions, sometimes I see people suggest shorter races, inverted grids, even multiple races in a weekend. To be honest this kind of stuff pushes my buttons because it indicates that some people want to be entertained rather than follow the one race, one nation, one Grand Prix format.

But nothing lives forever, and anything that stagnates dies. But what scares me is that the closing laps at Bahrain were considered as some of the best action in years. And it was all set up by the safety car.

Now let's talk about NASCAR. Sadly the TV ad breaks do not create cautionss, to me there have been too many instances when a break occurs only to return to see the aftermath of a wreck that brings out the safety car. But one thing that is a common result of how things are structured is that a great majority of races find themselves with a caution within the last few laps, and we get what is known as GWC, where the safety car pulls in, there is one lap, the white flag flies, and then it is one lap to the checkered.


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 Post subject: Re: WWF1
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:48 am 
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growers wrote:
My concern is that the entertainment/profit side of the sport is becoming too prevalent.


If this is so important to F1 then they could start by making an F1 live timing app which is useful to viewers, reliable, affordable and available for windows OS...

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