planetf1.com

It is currently Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:37 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please read the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
 Post subject: Merc's 8th gear
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:21 pm
Posts: 790
Where is it? I did not see yet Merc drivers changing into that 8th gear, even on that long straight from China.

Other teams seemed to be using that gear even on shorter straights.

Are their gear ratio settings so 'wide' thus will have an even greater advantage at the high speed tracks?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Merc's 8th gear
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:14 pm
Posts: 2033
Location: South Yorkshire
I'm 99.99% sure at least Hamilton used his 8th gear down the back straight in China, if Hamilton did that means Nico did as well. From what I remember they didn't use the full power band in 8th gear so they still have a lot more top end speed should they need it at tracks such as Spa and Monza.

_________________
Team Vettel, Ricciardo, Bottas and Button.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Merc's 8th gear
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:21 pm
Posts: 790
I've watched onboards with both Hamilton and Rosberg on that long straight. Rosberg had about 330 kph and was in 7th gear... :?:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Merc's 8th gear
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:21 pm
Posts: 790
335 kph with 7th gear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgpf9RDlPEo

I think they can get to 360 kph with 8th :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Merc's 8th gear
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:52 am
Posts: 35
Was watching the on-boards yesterday and can confirm that Rosberg was using 8th when using DRS later in the race, but not with DRS in the first third or so, but it definitely got used.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Merc's 8th gear
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:08 pm
Posts: 3767
Probably they thought that using 8 gears was useless so they left out the first seven very long and the 8th its so long that you would rarely ever use it. This may make the car more controllable at low speeds (more control over the torque) and it may be easier on tires too.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Merc's 8th gear
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:20 pm
Posts: 1804
Rosberg definitely used 8th gear at some point.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Merc's 8th gear
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:08 pm
Posts: 1061
I think they would have used 8th in quali in China had it not been wet. Rosberg was right on the edge of having to upshift in that vid.

_________________
Leave me alone.....I know what I'm doing


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Merc's 8th gear
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:22 pm
Posts: 1822
AFCTUJacko wrote:
I think they would have used 8th in quali in China had it not been wet. Rosberg was right on the edge of having to upshift in that vid.


It looked like he actually hit the limiter for a second or two, so could definitely have used 8th.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Merc's 8th gear
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:18 pm 
One point to consider that for every downshift under braking, the car is unsettled, and the KERS is not harvesting to it's full potential. Even though the Mercedes power plant package is vastly superior to the other packages, they too are still in the learning phase and it is very possible the Mercedes engineers asked the drivers to minimize downshifts under braking to keep the batteries fully charged and happy.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Merc's 8th gear
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 9272
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
One point to consider that for every downshift under braking, the car is unsettled, and the KERS is not harvesting to it's full potential. Even though the Mercedes power plant package is vastly superior to the other packages, they too are still in the learning phase and it is very possible the Mercedes engineers asked the drivers to minimize downshifts under braking to keep the batteries fully charged and happy.

One thing I've noticed this season is that the first downshift after starting to brake is done much later than it used to and I thought it had to do something with the energy harvesting.

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Merc's 8th gear
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:35 am 
That's what I think too Covalent. The most efficient way to harvest is when the car is at high speed. The MGU-K can collect a lot of energy, lots more than at lower speeds. As well, the downforce is at it's highest and thus the tires less prone to slip.

We've all heard about how the drivers have to be more intelligent, to maximize the car and all the energy recovery systems. This is one discipline, to maximize the harvesting and minimizing the effects KERS has when braking, which unsettles the car. Instead of reaching for that 8th gear, they stay in 7th, maybe lose 1/10 on the straight, but get a full KERS harvest and that is later pumped back into the KERS and pays dividends by making the car quicker. One step backward, two steps forward.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Merc's 8th gear
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:19 pm 
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
That's what I think too Covalent. The most efficient way to harvest is when the car is at high speed. The MGU-K can collect a lot of energy, lots more than at lower speeds. As well, the downforce is at it's highest and thus the tires less prone to slip.

We've all heard about how the drivers have to be more intelligent, to maximize the car and all the energy recovery systems. This is one discipline, to maximize the harvesting and minimizing the effects KERS has when braking, which unsettles the car. Instead of reaching for that 8th gear, they stay in 7th, maybe lose 1/10 on the straight, but get a full KERS harvest and that is later pumped back into the KERS and pays dividends by making the car quicker. One step backward, two steps forward.


What you describe is very logical. But I think so much thinking while driving is detrimental to a driver over the course of a race, particularly when under pressure from behind. Surely, the KERS harvest can/has been automated to optimize performance.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Merc's 8th gear
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:23 am
Posts: 300
The longer gears may help with actual power vs. control

Anyone remember Peugeot's 4 and 5 speed transmissions in WRC when everyone else had 6?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Merc's 8th gear
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:22 pm
Posts: 1822
silkjet wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
That's what I think too Covalent. The most efficient way to harvest is when the car is at high speed. The MGU-K can collect a lot of energy, lots more than at lower speeds. As well, the downforce is at it's highest and thus the tires less prone to slip.

We've all heard about how the drivers have to be more intelligent, to maximize the car and all the energy recovery systems. This is one discipline, to maximize the harvesting and minimizing the effects KERS has when braking, which unsettles the car. Instead of reaching for that 8th gear, they stay in 7th, maybe lose 1/10 on the straight, but get a full KERS harvest and that is later pumped back into the KERS and pays dividends by making the car quicker. One step backward, two steps forward.


What you describe is very logical. But I think so much thinking while driving is detrimental to a driver over the course of a race, particularly when under pressure from behind. Surely, the KERS harvest can/has been automated to optimize performance.


It's probably not too much thinking for them, given all the data they already have. Their data is already saying brake 3 metres later, apply less throttle here, lift and coast here - throwing in a "don't upshift at the end of the straight" isn't something that they wouldn't be able to cope with.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Merc's 8th gear
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:33 pm 
Although the Mercedes power unit enjoys a peformance advantage, please do not assume that the team has it all sorted out. In Formula One and with cars so complex, there is always room for refinement and improvement. Who knows, there may be problems, all we know is that it is working better than the others.

I am a dedicated sim racer (5 races yesterday, one so far today but two more planned for later), not an alien but reasonably competent. From my experience I have a ton of respect for what Formula One drivers are tasked with. Considering that they may have to adjust the differential and brake balance a few times per lap (and that is just one example of the many tasks) asking a driver to minimize downshifts is a very minor requirement that any driver can easily deal with.

The new turbo engines have so much torque that eight gears is an excess. This allows the teams to use the gearing for more than just performance. In fact many observers speculate that they could easily run a race with five or six gears. The 8th gear could be an overdrive, reserved for tracks that require a lot more maximum throttle, thus saving gas on the long straights. Monza comes to mind.

We have all seen the new fuel efficiency displays, and if any driver is informed he needs to conserve more, then short-shifting and reaching for 8th offers him the opportunity to do that.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Merc's 8th gear
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 7:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:49 am
Posts: 166
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Although the Mercedes power unit enjoys a peformance advantage, please do not assume that the team has it all sorted out. In Formula One and with cars so complex, there is always room for refinement and improvement. Who knows, there may be problems, all we know is that it is working better than the others.

I am a dedicated sim racer (5 races yesterday, one so far today but two more planned for later), not an alien but reasonably competent. From my experience I have a ton of respect for what Formula One drivers are tasked with. Considering that they may have to adjust the differential and brake balance a few times per lap (and that is just one example of the many tasks) asking a driver to minimize downshifts is a very minor requirement that any driver can easily deal with.

The new turbo engines have so much torque that eight gears is an excess. This allows the teams to use the gearing for more than just performance. In fact many observers speculate that they could easily run a race with five or six gears. The 8th gear could be an overdrive, reserved for tracks that require a lot more maximum throttle, thus saving gas on the long straights. Monza comes to mind.

We have all seen the new fuel efficiency displays, and if any driver is informed he needs to conserve more, then short-shifting and reaching for 8th offers him the opportunity to do that.

Doesn't this also means that the Merc is so fuel efficient that they don't need the 8th gear?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Laz_T800, Noni, UnlikeUday and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group