planetf1.com

So is this Jensen's last call before the retirement boot arrive's ?

I feel this is ron letting him know his time is up.

HERES THE LINK
http://www.gptoday.com/details/view/492 ... ry_harder/

_________________
People have short memory's these days and want spoon fed, Do your own research.

I am a fan of Jenson and I like McLaren, McLaren too need to try harder. Button needs to regularly put his car in the top 10 for qualifying and then show Kevin Magussen the way home,

Did anyone see the Montoya interview with Steve Rider, on that program JPM claims even when he won races for McLaren he was told 'yeah but Kimi was quicker than you' So if you're a McLaren driver there's a lot of expectation on your shoulders the whole time and it's a bit harsh but F1 is not easy, every driver knows that too. J.B will bounce back though and I hope he does!

Try harder? I think Ron means do better. I'm sure Jenson is trying very very hard.

Mclaren need to sort themselves out. If they build a good car, Jenson will bring home the points. If they want someone with more speed in the other car go for it, but they need a consistent points scorer in the other. If they had two Perez's last year they'd have had many less points than they actually scored.

In 2012 Button and Hamilton looked like a very strong lineup, the guy hasn't lost all his speed in 2 years.

_________________
Official Kamui Kobayashi Fanboy

Already under discussion here

_________________
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss

Paulsf1fix is right, driving for McLaren under Ron was/is always tough. Lauda reckoned after he'd won the 1984 WDC, Ron got him back throughout 1985, for demanding and getting such a high salary to join McLaren back in 1982! Ron is also prone to driver favouritism: Hakkinen against DC, against Alonso, but perhaps understandably in 2007.

All this and what Ron said to Montoya would not have helped the team. I'm still trying to find out: in 2006 was Monty fired or did he walk out? Anyone know?

_________________
http://grandprixratings.blogspot.com

I watched the interview Paulsf1 was talking about. Montoya walked out. he was just fed up with politics and the chance for Nascar came from thin air so he took it

Thanks for that M.Nader. Pity Monty was so impulsive; same when he walked out of Williams. I really liked his abilty and style and think he was a great loss to F1.

Some fun: sure he'd have calmed the McLaren waters in 2007 if he'd stayed?

_________________
http://grandprixratings.blogspot.com

Jenson is on his way out. I've been saying that ever since the Honda engine deal was announced. The one year contract pretty much confirmed it for me.

To my mind, it's madness. You need a mature, capable, analytical driver to help develop a new car, which is effectively what's going to happen next year at McLaren. The Jenson versus Kevin results illustrate that. Unfortunately, Daniel whupping Seb has pretty much contradicted that - people forget that Vettel wasn't, isn't and likely never will be, anything but a very capable point and squirt driver.

One of next year's Macca drivers will be either Japanese, or from a country where Honda has a big presence or marketing opportunity.

Remember that Jenson was brought in by Whitmarsh, so Ron has no great connection there. Ron's just getting his post-event justification in early.


.

_________________
Me Like - Button, Hamilton, Webber, Rosberg
Over rated, over paid - Räikkönen, Alonso, Vettel. Schumacher
Disappointing - Massa, Kobayashi
I may be wrong about - Alonso

I'm sure Jenson is trying, perhaps if Ron tried harder to rally the team and produce a better car he'd be doing better.

Its no secret, he's at the end of his career, but Ron cannot lay the blame for McLaren's poor performance at Jenson's door. He is the man in charge, he let it get to this point.


Sadly I fear Jenson will be the sacrificial lamb. Although I cannot for the life of me see why they'd ditch him for 2015 when the options for suitable replacements is so thin on the ground.

_________________
Warning: The above post may contain sarcasm.

Do or do not, there is no try.

_________________
“I'm happy, but there's nothing to jump around about.”

_________________
http://grandprixratings.blogspot.com

If I were Jenson I'd take a massive pay cut just to get in the McLaren Honda.

I reckon Ron would sign him in a heartbeat for a year if the money was right, consistency is always a good thing too.

_________________
Warning: The above post may contain sarcasm.

I don't think a couple of mils on driver budget is something that makes a huge difference for Mclaren. If Ron has decided that he wants to replace Button, why would he change his mind just for a pay cut?

_________________
“I'm happy, but there's nothing to jump around about.”

Button had the only real poor weekend he's had all year and Ron starts calling him out.

It's a sign of the pressure Jenson is under. Given the pay packet he has, McLaren are looking for any excuse to dump him. But to do so would be ill-advised when there are probably no better alternatives.

_________________
I don't follow F1 so I don't know what I'm talking about

I would suggest it is very cynical and inprobable that Honda will plonk a Japanese driver straight into the car. They are clever enough to understand that getting the right drivers is key to developing the new engine/car, minimising the time it takes to get the package to the front and maximise the results. Honda in WTCC run an Italian and a Portuguese in a series where they could easily get a Jap because it is "just" touring cars so I think you could say a lower level so I doubt in F1 they will want to get anything but the strongest lineup possible which I don't see involving Kobayashi etc.

Button's reputation rests on him being a safe pair of hands which is fair enough and he would be a fine choice capable of getting results but there are other drivers that have performed better in the last two years including those that are both a safe pair of hands AND quick- Vettel, Alonso, Hulkenberg, Rosberg and 6/7 times out of ten Hamilton. These drivers are most famous so will get more publicity for Honda/McLaren and probably better so can get the results that will also give Honda/McLaren more publicity.

He was fast for sure! but Kimi was as fast (at least) as well TBH.

Oh boy what we would have seen had Montoya been paired with Alonso/Lewis.
Montoya was very vocal and had anger issues, but i think he would have probably done better given how well he would have known the team by then. He is also a genuinely nice guy actually, i don't see the egotistic side of him as i do with other drivers.


Back on topic, i don't think Ron Likes Jenson much. as said before Ron is the kind to have preference and Jenson is not his kind of driver, Jenson hasn't done anything wrong and McLaren won't probably hire someone better than him or his equal (Vettel/Alonso/Lewis) but it is just the way he does things that doesn't sit well with Ron. and to be fair he hasn't dominated Kevin which he should have (he didn't dominate Perez either).

the thing is i see change at McLaren, Eric seems like a guy who knows what he is doing and it is true the car has been improving at a steady pace and Eric seems to have changed the way McLaren do things in general which is a positive, also i trust Honda with the engine. i hope Jenson is there next year, but i don't see it happening BUT i am sure if he does leave he will have decent offers at least Williams will probably empty a seat for him if not Ferrari (or Rebdull of Vettel leaves), Lotus as well with Merc power maybe a force.

The issue with Jenson is that he does not out perform the car. Most people here is in agreement that if Maclaren give him a good car he will show results (which is true), but that is what you would expect from an average F1 driver.
What Maclaren need is a star, that out performs the car in difficult times, inspiring the team to do better.

Thing is, he has beaten his highly regarded teammates in difficult cars. (Perez and Kevin)

So true Master Yoda.






..........because maybe he's still the best option right now for 2015?

Well button is very big in Japan due to having a Japanese girlfriend and driving for Honda in the past. So of they wanted to have a driver for market reasons they would probably keep button. I don't believe macca will be pressured in to getting a driver for market reasons. They will get the best driver line up possible so they can start winning again.

Umm....Ron, last I've checked. Jenson has been consistently beating Magnussen this year in race pace and qualifying?
Is Ron on drugs? Jeez...

Maybe not in the longer term, but what are his options? Everyone keeps bleating on about them signing Alonso, Sebastian etc but they aren't realistic options.

A slightly cheaper Jenson Button might satisfy Ron, and his currently sponsor-less car. I know everyone assumes Honda are bankrolling the grey car, but lets not pretend that in most cases more money equates to a faster car in F1.


Yeah, people often forget Jenson is big in Japan. I cannot see Honda demanding another driver, when theres no real successor. Two young drivers would be a big risk for Honda.

_________________
Warning: The above post may contain sarcasm.

Honda never showed any inclination to put a Japanese driver in before, either with Lotus with Senna in the early 80s, Williams when Piquet was there or McLaren/Lotus with Senna/Piquet again after that. They tend to associate with the big drivers as a policy. They are pragmatic and will be looking for a winner, not a nationality IMO.

I believe they will try very hard to get either Alonso or Lewis, as these two look the most likely to get the best out of a car even when it doesn't suit them. There are already rumours linking both to McLaren and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Honda were a driving force behind that. Jenson is a very capable driver IMO but doesn't appear to have that extra something to lift an average car. Thing is, beyond the two already mentioned I'm not sure who else would be a step up? McLaren have already tried twice at least to lure Kimi back and I don't think it will happen again; besides, he's also having issues at Ferrari. Vettel's a possibility but again he's being outperformed by his new team mate and doesn't look 100% comfortable, so would he be better than Button? Jury's out for me. Rosberg looks fairly set at Mercedes. Hulk can best be described as solid. Perez has been there done that (and is perhaps a little too erratic). Grosjean is not quite the finished article etc etc. Who else stands out that you'd say would be a definite improvement that Honda would insist on?

He did not maybe lost his speed but he did lost the other dudes set up who at the end of 2012

Completely agree. Additionally, if you look at what Jenson has done this season, race-by-race, he has done a perfectly fine job. He was disappointing in the race in Spain; he qualified well and his race pace was ok, but his start ruined his race. Austria is the only weekend where you can say he wasn't quick enough.
His performances in Malaysia, Bahrain (until the SC) and Canada were absolutely top notch - He ran ahead of arguably faster cars in all three races. In Australia he was fortunate McLaren executed strategy perfectly, but he was very quick when he wasn't in traffic.
Magnussen is roughly equal with him in quali, but I think that speaks more for K-Mag than it does for Jenson, considering Jenson matched Checo in quali last year.

Like you say, Seb and Kimi are demonstrating that their skillsets are relatively similar to Jenson; they struggle with cars that aren't suited to them. And we know that when Jenson had the fastest car and an inferior team-mate, he reached a level of dominance (in 2009) similar to that of Vettel in 2011/13 & Kimi in 2005.
It's clear that McLaren are looking for a true lead driver, a replacement for Hamilton, and Jenson does not represent that. But apart from Rosberg, Alonso and maybe Ricciardo, who does? Rosberg and Ricciardo are committed to their teams and there's no way Alonso will drive for Ron again. It seems to me the team are deluding themselves into thinking there's a Hamilton replacement available right now, just like they did in 2012.

If McLaren are smart, they will sign Jenson to a more cost-effective deal and they will do everything in their power to get Vandoorne into a smaller team for 2015.

_________________
I don't follow F1 so I don't know what I'm talking about

Do people really think Lewis would go back to McLaren? I just don't see it myself.

Jenson and Kamui would be perfect for the marketing side of things.

I think Lewis would go back, not next year, not even 2016. 2017 perhaps, if the McLaren Honda is THE car.

_________________
Warning: The above post may contain sarcasm.

Piquet was the favoured son because at the time Brazil was a massive target market for Honda. At other times, there's pretty much always been a Japanese driver on the grid (or a Honda favoured driver) whenever Honda have been around. Sometimes it has been in a lower order team.

McLaren is the only Honda team next year.


.

_________________
Me Like - Button, Hamilton, Webber, Rosberg
Over rated, over paid - Räikkönen, Alonso, Vettel. Schumacher
Disappointing - Massa, Kobayashi
I may be wrong about - Alonso

For 2015?

What are you smoking?

_________________
Warning: The above post may contain sarcasm.

Well I'm sure Ron has analysed 2012 and seen that without the non-driving factors Lewis toasted Jenson in 2012 to the tune of 150 points or so. Now Rosberg is looking closer than that, making JB some way down the totem pole, below LH, NR, DR, SV, and FA at least. Probably add KR and NH to that list and even wondering about Perez after all perhaps.

So at best JB is a No2, for Ron. And if JB is beating Kev then clearly McLaren's driver lineup isn't top drawer and he'll be trying to replace one of them. If only he can, of course. Meanwhile he can only try a kick up the backside.

I didn't say they would succeed, but they will definitely try. If Ferrari continues to tank they may well have a chance with Alonso, but it's a very small one. Can't see Lewis leaving Mercedes though

Makes perfect sense for them to go after the top drivers,Mclaren will always be in the market for the best drivers,if they get them or not is another matter.
Mclaren would always be an option a top driver would consider because more often than not they build race winning cars and a year or 2 without will not drastically change that.

Magnussen is rookie.

_________________
eeee

lol

On one side they want him to do better, he does have his inconsistent performances but this tends to relate to around 4 races a year. They cant really complain at that because even the likes of Lewis can have has bad share.

JB seems to be feeling that he will be with them next season and I cant blame them for keeping him. As JB said he is scoring them good points and frankly even if Lewis was still there they wouldn't be competing for much more.

On race day it was very often Button would either finish 1 place behind or even 1 place ahead of LH. Although the fighting wasn't consistently as close as Nico and LH but as mentioned before LH/NR are in cars that have rarely been seen by other teams except to be overlapped.

So, watching the driver's press conference now.

Jenson actually tried to make fun of Ron, "I dunno, maybe Ron is practicing to be a motivational speaker" "we shouldn't be laying blame to one person, the whole team must try harder" " i have always given 100% and always will, in the car, the paddock, with the engineers"


Jenson also refused to discuss the future and gave a coy smile about it. I think we are in for an announcement real soon and i suspect Jenson will be out.

Who would Mclaren replace him with?

Lewis or Alonso are not going to go there next year, its stupid to think so. One knows how good his car is, the other has no idea how good the Mclaren will be.

There will be calls for Hulk or (add favorite driver here) but the only possible options are Vettel or maybe Massa, but I dont think either would go there.

None of the others offer something Button does not, and Button offers much the other drivers will not, including consistency and the ability to compare with this years car/engine. He also seems to be a favorite with the sponsors, possibly even with Honda themselves.

Seems the headline for this thread should now be

Button: Dennis needs to try harder !
Jenson has often said he wanted to end his career at McLaren and it seems Ron is going to oblige

Ron seems to be forgetting that McLaren is no longer the automatic "go to " team for the top drivers. They have been the worst performers with the best powertain package - which points to the car design as being the problem.
So even if Honda deliver the best package from day 1, McLaren still have to get the car right - and thats not a given.

So any of the big names being "targetted" would be taking a gamble on going to McLaren in 2015 , can't see LH walking out of a winning team, FA previous with Ron , SV ??

Sorry Lewis did what? Not to want to start another Jenson vs Lewis thread, but 150 points is insane. This is the same Jenson that won in Australia and Spa in 2012 on merit. I'm not saying he was faster than Lewis, because I'm not sure anyone is, but he wasn't that much slower and was still capable of bringing in points and wins. Once they have a car that can do that they can go about criticising the drivers.

_________________
Official Kamui Kobayashi Fanboy