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 Post subject: F1 hot laps on Top Gear
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:45 pm 
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We'll trial this thread as an exception to the motorsport/Top Gear rule. Basically, for anyone who wants to debate the relative performances of different drivers in Top Gear's Suzuki, this is the ONLY thread in this forum to do that. Otherwise the official Top Gear thread is available in Off Topic.

We'll review this thread in due course but for now it's being run as a test/compromise.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:06 pm 
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I'm pleased there is finally somewhere we're allowed to discuss this, but it seems really OTT that its been so forbidden thus far.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:09 pm 
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Mass protest against it in the past led to its ban, plus there was always Off Topic for it. When we get upwards of a dozen reports on a single thread because someone used TG as a reference point it just becomes tedious. Hopefully this appeases all sides.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:56 pm 
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The current standings are as follows, I'll update this as new drivers set times:
Code:
1  Daniel Ricciardo     1:42.2   Achieved 3 laps at exactly the same time
2  Lewis Hamilton       1:42.9   Second attempt
3  Mark Webber          1:43.1   Second attempt
4  Sebastian Vettel     1:44.0
5  Rubens Barrichello   1:44.3   
6  Ben Collins          1:44.4   The Stig II
7  Nigel Mansell        1:44.6   
8  Lewis Hamilton       1:44.7   Wet & oily
9  Jenson Button        1:44.7   Hot
10 Jenson Button        1:44.9   Second attempt. Wet
11 Perry McCarthy       1:46.0   The Stig I
12 Kimi Räikkönen       1:46.1   Very wet
13 Damon Hill           1:46.3   
14 Mark Webber          1:47.1   Extremely wet


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:59 pm 
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Interesting that Button lost only two tenths over the course of a lap in the wet.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:20 pm 
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Tufty wrote:
Interesting that Button lost only two tenths over the course of a lap in the wet.

It was years later, and as he pointed out himself he was a better driver the second time. But yes, it's also less surprising that Button would lose such a small amount than it might have been with some other drivers; Webber for example lost pretty much exactly the full 4 seconds they use as a rule of thumb.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:09 pm 
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I think its a good decision to allow this there, as i think its HEAVILY related to F1/motorsport.
Yeah its the only car/track combo that all F1 drivers can compare themselves, no matter how much some people dismiss it.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:12 pm 
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I'd like to see Alonso have a go - perhaps more of a chance it happening now he's at McLaren?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:43 pm 
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Herb wrote:
I'd like to see Alonso have a go - perhaps more of a chance it happening now he's at McLaren?

I get the feeling Clarkson isn't a big fan. I could be wrong though. Alonso seems very serious about his racing. He'd probably turn up with a team of engineers and get every little thing on the car set up right and go about two seconds faster. When he does loosen up he seems cool in interviews.

I'd love to see Nico and Keke go on together and see who goes fastest. Keke seems pretty private these days though.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:51 pm 
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I think a lot of the gaps are down to the amount of focus and effort put in by the driver, added to how much experience and affinity the have the the traditional controls.
Put them all in a slow car on that track with a familiar controls/similar experience and I think they'd all be very tightly bunched.

It's a bit like top golfers having a round of crazy golf. It would just show how good they are at crazy golf. Interesting (and I'd like to see it :) ) but I wouldn't read anything into how good a golfer they are.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:01 pm 
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There are too many variables for the laptimes to mean anything beyond having a fun debate. Take Button's time for example, 0.2 seconds slower in the wet? Well his first time the weather was very hot, which Top Gear said is about 2 seconds a lap slower - so that would put him on a 1:42.7, in the Hamilton/Ricciardo ball park.

I think I read that the track was resurfaced between Hamilton and Webber appearing - I don't know the truth of that, but obviously that will have an impact.

Unless the drivers turn up on the same day, comparisons don't really hold much weight. But that's no different to Formula 1 itself. We spend ages arguing over how much of an advantage Newey's Red Bull was for Vettel, or how much of a handicaps Alonso's Ferraris were for him. Now we're just talking about weather, motivation and car wear.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:59 pm 
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AngusWolfe wrote:
Herb wrote:
I'd like to see Alonso have a go - perhaps more of a chance it happening now he's at McLaren?

I get the feeling Clarkson isn't a big fan.

I'm not sure. I remember during the hoo-ha about Germany 2010 Clarkson said Ferrari were 100% right in what they did.

It's possible he's not an Alonso fan and took an unbiased, neutral view on it. But it's Clarkson, I doubt he has an unbiased, neutral view.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:09 pm 
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I agree that Clarkson doesnt appear to be a big Alonso fan. He made some jokes on him and he called him "eyebrow man" when he was interviewing Hamilton.

Nonetheless I hope he goes there someday.

Who's got twitter? We could send clarkson several messages about it XD


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:30 am 
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nixxxon wrote:
I think its a good decision to allow this there, as i think its HEAVILY related to F1/motorsport.
Yeah its the only car/track combo that all F1 drivers can compare themselves, no matter how much some people dismiss it.

It isn't related to F1 at all really expect it's an F1 driver driving the car. Top Gera is an entertainment show, people watch it to have a laugh not find out factual information like who is the fastest F1 driver. Not really. That's why no one would be at all shocked to find out that the F1 driver lap times are decided before the driver ever steps foot in the old Suzuki. The engine in the car has been replaced several times, the tyres countless and the gearbox needs changed every few months as well.

They know the value of Ricciardo being the fastest by miles, it means they can get Hamilton back on as the reigned WDC again. Just like when Hamilton went quickest last time they knew they could coax Vettel into coming back at some point and persuade Ricciardo to come and have a bash at it. Red Bull too probably thought it well worth their while 'sponsoring' the show shall we say to ensure their boy goes top and they get maximum PR from it all. Rest assured Lewis will go back to the top whenever he makes a return again. Clarkson's ego won't settle for an Australian being top of the leader board for long.

But as a direct comparison it is completely worthless I'm afraid. After all if Ben Collins was really just a tenth slower than Barrichello and within half a second of a four time WDC then he wouldn't have been The Stig, he'd have been much nearer to F1 himself.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:56 am 
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Laura23 wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
I think its a good decision to allow this there, as i think its HEAVILY related to F1/motorsport.
Yeah its the only car/track combo that all F1 drivers can compare themselves, no matter how much some people dismiss it.

It isn't related to F1 at all really expect it's an F1 driver driving the car. Top Gera is an entertainment show, people watch it to have a laugh not find out factual information like who is the fastest F1 driver. Not really. That's why no one would be at all shocked to find out that the F1 driver lap times are decided before the driver ever steps foot in the old Suzuki. The engine in the car has been replaced several times, the tyres countless and the gearbox needs changed every few months as well.

They know the value of Ricciardo being the fastest by miles, it means they can get Hamilton back on as the reigned WDC again. Just like when Hamilton went quickest last time they knew they could coax Vettel into coming back at some point and persuade Ricciardo to come and have a bash at it. Red Bull too probably thought it well worth their while 'sponsoring' the show shall we say to ensure their boy goes top and they get maximum PR from it all. Rest assured Lewis will go back to the top whenever he makes a return again. Clarkson's ego won't settle for an Australian being top of the leader board for long.

But as a direct comparison it is completely worthless I'm afraid. After all if Ben Collins was really just a tenth slower than Barrichello and within half a second of a four time WDC then he wouldn't have been The Stig, he'd have been much nearer to F1 himself.


I know for a fact all the times are legit & there is no funny business going on at all.
The stig got so close to the f1 stars because he knows the track & car inside out and has done a mega ton of laps on it.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:12 am 
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lbennie wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
I think its a good decision to allow this there, as i think its HEAVILY related to F1/motorsport.
Yeah its the only car/track combo that all F1 drivers can compare themselves, no matter how much some people dismiss it.

It isn't related to F1 at all really expect it's an F1 driver driving the car. Top Gera is an entertainment show, people watch it to have a laugh not find out factual information like who is the fastest F1 driver. Not really. That's why no one would be at all shocked to find out that the F1 driver lap times are decided before the driver ever steps foot in the old Suzuki. The engine in the car has been replaced several times, the tyres countless and the gearbox needs changed every few months as well.

They know the value of Ricciardo being the fastest by miles, it means they can get Hamilton back on as the reigned WDC again. Just like when Hamilton went quickest last time they knew they could coax Vettel into coming back at some point and persuade Ricciardo to come and have a bash at it. Red Bull too probably thought it well worth their while 'sponsoring' the show shall we say to ensure their boy goes top and they get maximum PR from it all. Rest assured Lewis will go back to the top whenever he makes a return again. Clarkson's ego won't settle for an Australian being top of the leader board for long.

But as a direct comparison it is completely worthless I'm afraid. After all if Ben Collins was really just a tenth slower than Barrichello and within half a second of a four time WDC then he wouldn't have been The Stig, he'd have been much nearer to F1 himself.


I know for a fact all the times are legit & there is no funny business going on at all.
The stig got so close to the f1 stars because he knows the track & car inside out and has done a mega ton of laps on it.

If you would care to prove why you know for a fact then do please share. A friend of mine who works for the BBC very closely with Top Gear told me nothing is ever completely legit with the SIARPC. The guests who offer the show the most PR go to the top of the times, the ones who are big names go straight to the top of the times. The only occasions when they don't do that are when it's been raining and it is clearly not going to be a record breaking day. The F1 drivers are no different.

As for Ben Collins' time, he did what all the others did, set three laps in the car after a few initial practice runs.

Nothing about the SIARPC is factual. It's entertainment for the general masses.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:31 am 
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I don't even know who the current leaderboard topper is, and if I recall, some of the top times are set by stand up comedians, who, by showbiz standards, don't have much marketing potential.

I agree about the F1 times, though.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:42 am 
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Laura23 wrote:
lbennie wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
I think its a good decision to allow this there, as i think its HEAVILY related to F1/motorsport.
Yeah its the only car/track combo that all F1 drivers can compare themselves, no matter how much some people dismiss it.

It isn't related to F1 at all really expect it's an F1 driver driving the car. Top Gera is an entertainment show, people watch it to have a laugh not find out factual information like who is the fastest F1 driver. Not really. That's why no one would be at all shocked to find out that the F1 driver lap times are decided before the driver ever steps foot in the old Suzuki. The engine in the car has been replaced several times, the tyres countless and the gearbox needs changed every few months as well.

They know the value of Ricciardo being the fastest by miles, it means they can get Hamilton back on as the reigned WDC again. Just like when Hamilton went quickest last time they knew they could coax Vettel into coming back at some point and persuade Ricciardo to come and have a bash at it. Red Bull too probably thought it well worth their while 'sponsoring' the show shall we say to ensure their boy goes top and they get maximum PR from it all. Rest assured Lewis will go back to the top whenever he makes a return again. Clarkson's ego won't settle for an Australian being top of the leader board for long.

But as a direct comparison it is completely worthless I'm afraid. After all if Ben Collins was really just a tenth slower than Barrichello and within half a second of a four time WDC then he wouldn't have been The Stig, he'd have been much nearer to F1 himself.


I know for a fact all the times are legit & there is no funny business going on at all.
The stig got so close to the f1 stars because he knows the track & car inside out and has done a mega ton of laps on it.

If you would care to prove why you know for a fact then do please share. A friend of mine who works for the BBC very closely with Top Gear told me nothing is ever completely legit with the SIARPC. The guests who offer the show the most PR go to the top of the times, the ones who are big names go straight to the top of the times. The only occasions when they don't do that are when it's been raining and it is clearly not going to be a record breaking day. The F1 drivers are no different.

As for Ben Collins' time, he did what all the others did, set three laps in the car after a few initial practice runs.

Nothing about the SIARPC is factual. It's entertainment for the general masses.


No Idea if the times are legit or not (although looking over the leaderboards I don't really see a trend of the bigger names being at the top http://www.topgear.com/uk/track-guide?L ... hall-Astra) but just because Ricciardo etc would be MUCH quicker in an F1 car than Ben Collins it doesn't mean they would necessarily be quicker in a Suzuki Liana.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:50 am 
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AngusWolfe wrote:
Herb wrote:
I'd like to see Alonso have a go - perhaps more of a chance it happening now he's at McLaren?

I get the feeling Clarkson isn't a big fan. I could be wrong though. Alonso seems very serious about his racing. He'd probably turn up with a team of engineers and get every little thing on the car set up right and go about two seconds faster. When he does loosen up he seems cool in interviews.

I'd love to see Nico and Keke go on together and see who goes fastest. Keke seems pretty private these days though.

Cool idea but Keke would stand no chance.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:04 am 
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Are the laps in their entirety actually available online anywhere? Maybe I'm overly cynical, but given how manufactured so much of Top Gear is, I've always found it difficult to believe that the times they claim are 100% accurate. And some of the comments in this thread don't exactly help me believe otherwise...

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:22 am 
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Laura23 wrote:
... The guests who offer the show the most PR go to the top of the times, the ones who are big names go straight to the top of the times. The only occasions when they don't do that are when it's been raining and it is clearly not going to be a record breaking day. The F1 drivers are no different. ...

While I'm perfectly willing to believe that the lap times are played with in the name of the show, this statement doesn't hold up - a cursory glance at the lap board (with any of the three cars) shows some pretty big names doing dry laps several seconds off the pace, and quite often relatively unknown stars above them. Even noted (and very famous) car enthusiasts like Jay Leno or Tom Cruise did some pretty slow laps considering that metric.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:28 am 
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Laura23 wrote:
As for Ben Collins' time, he did what all the others did, set three laps in the car after a few initial practice runs.


Sorry I dont buy that. Ben Collins did an awful lot of laps surely, in the Suzuki Liana and in all other cars he's done hotlaps with. He has a massive experience advantage over any guest on TG, F1 driver or not.

Also I dont know why you say it isn't F1 related.
Besides the lap, they interview those F1 drivers, therefore it's F1 related.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:48 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
lbennie wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
I think its a good decision to allow this there, as i think its HEAVILY related to F1/motorsport.
Yeah its the only car/track combo that all F1 drivers can compare themselves, no matter how much some people dismiss it.

It isn't related to F1 at all really expect it's an F1 driver driving the car. Top Gera is an entertainment show, people watch it to have a laugh not find out factual information like who is the fastest F1 driver. Not really. That's why no one would be at all shocked to find out that the F1 driver lap times are decided before the driver ever steps foot in the old Suzuki. The engine in the car has been replaced several times, the tyres countless and the gearbox needs changed every few months as well.

They know the value of Ricciardo being the fastest by miles, it means they can get Hamilton back on as the reigned WDC again. Just like when Hamilton went quickest last time they knew they could coax Vettel into coming back at some point and persuade Ricciardo to come and have a bash at it. Red Bull too probably thought it well worth their while 'sponsoring' the show shall we say to ensure their boy goes top and they get maximum PR from it all. Rest assured Lewis will go back to the top whenever he makes a return again. Clarkson's ego won't settle for an Australian being top of the leader board for long.

But as a direct comparison it is completely worthless I'm afraid. After all if Ben Collins was really just a tenth slower than Barrichello and within half a second of a four time WDC then he wouldn't have been The Stig, he'd have been much nearer to F1 himself.


I know for a fact all the times are legit & there is no funny business going on at all.
The stig got so close to the f1 stars because he knows the track & car inside out and has done a mega ton of laps on it.

If you would care to prove why you know for a fact then do please share. A friend of mine who works for the BBC very closely with Top Gear told me nothing is ever completely legit with the SIARPC. The guests who offer the show the most PR go to the top of the times, the ones who are big names go straight to the top of the times. The only occasions when they don't do that are when it's been raining and it is clearly not going to be a record breaking day. The F1 drivers are no different.

As for Ben Collins' time, he did what all the others did, set three laps in the car after a few initial practice runs.

Nothing about the SIARPC is factual. It's entertainment for the general masses.


No Idea if the times are legit or not (although looking over the leaderboards I don't really see a trend of the bigger names being at the top http://www.topgear.com/uk/track-guide?L ... hall-Astra) but just because Ricciardo etc would be MUCH quicker in an F1 car than Ben Collins it doesn't mean they would necessarily be quicker in a Suzuki Liana.

I agree

An F1 driver sitting in a cheap car for maybe an hour on a test track
Vs
The expert of that test track (and probably the same car)

...I have my doubts over those lap times

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:24 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
An F1 driver sitting in a cheap car for maybe an hour on a test track
Vs
The expert of that test track (and probably the same car)

...I have my doubts over those lap times

Familiarity does play a big part in lap time but so does feel and talent. Hamilton has had great form on tracks that are new to the F1 grid as he seems to find the limit faster than everybody else.

Fuji '07 (1st), Europe '08 (2nd), Singapore '08 (2nd), Abu Dhabi '09 (DNF while leading), Korea '10 (2nd), India '11 (...7th...), USA '12 (1st) Austria '14 (2nd), Russia '14 (1st).

Excluding the Massa-related troubles in 2011 and the Abu Dhabi pole curse, Hamilton has never been outside to top 2 at a new circuit. My money is on Hamilton to win in Mexico but that's more a function of the Merc...

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:32 pm 
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F1Tyrant wrote:
mcdo wrote:
An F1 driver sitting in a cheap car for maybe an hour on a test track
Vs
The expert of that test track (and probably the same car)

...I have my doubts over those lap times

Familiarity does play a big part in lap time but so does feel and talent. Hamilton has had great form on tracks that are new to the F1 grid as he seems to find the limit faster than everybody else.

Fuji '07 (1st), Europe '08 (2nd), Singapore '08 (2nd), Abu Dhabi '09 (DNF while leading), Korea '10 (2nd), India '11 (...7th...), USA '12 (1st) Austria '14 (2nd), Russia '14 (1st).

Excluding the Massa-related troubles in 2011 and the Abu Dhabi pole curse, Hamilton has never been outside to top 2 at a new circuit. My money is on Hamilton to win in Mexico but that's more a function of the Merc...

So if today's Ricciardo was Hamilton's team mate in each of those races, would he have been 0.7 a lap faster?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:00 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
So if today's Ricciardo was Hamilton's team mate in each of those races, would he have been 0.7 a lap faster?

I was making a more general point about familiarity not being as important as some people claim it is. I take the lap times on TG with a pinch of salt.

I think there isn't much raw pace separating Hamilton from Ricciardo but my gut says that Hamilton would narrowly win in the same car due to his greater experience in pressure situations and at the cutting edge of the field. Given what I said about familiarity and experience above that may sound like a contradiction but they are different situations.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:13 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
... The guests who offer the show the most PR go to the top of the times, the ones who are big names go straight to the top of the times. The only occasions when they don't do that are when it's been raining and it is clearly not going to be a record breaking day. The F1 drivers are no different. ...

While I'm perfectly willing to believe that the lap times are played with in the name of the show, this statement doesn't hold up - a cursory glance at the lap board (with any of the three cars) shows some pretty big names doing dry laps several seconds off the pace, and quite often relatively unknown stars above them. Even noted (and very famous) car enthusiasts like Jay Leno or Tom Cruise did some pretty slow laps considering that metric.

The whole theory makes no sense, for every assumption there's a question. Suggesting anything can be proved by reasoning that driver A should be X amount quicker than driver B, just because he's in F1, is absurd. And if it's all just an elaborate plan to get Hamilton back then why make up such a quick time for Ricciardo? Hamilton isn't coming back unless he thinks he can beat the Aussie. The more attainable the target the more likely he is to return. And I know someone who used to work on the show as a production assistant, she swore blind it was all legit. But how on earth do I know if she was telling the truth, or even knew for sure herself? We have no way of knowing one way or the other.

And, on another point, this is an F1 and motorsport forum. This TG segment is about setting competitive times in a car... which is kind of the definition of motorsport. Why shouldn't it be discussed here? Because it isn't FIA sanctioned?

As you might be able to tell, I'm not having a good day! :o

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Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:19 pm 
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it's a few minutes to see to an f1 driver in a relaxed, fun environment. i really don't see the need to get all technical or wound up about the lap time being some indicator about the best driver. it's good for some chuckles


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:55 pm 
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Don't know about the SIARPC but I can't buy for a minute that the F1 times are decided beforehand. Why would some go to the fuss and effort of picking a specific day and spending hours doing practice laps if the times are decided beforehand?. To make it look convincing?. Doubtful.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:57 pm 
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I think Top-Gear times are creating more problems than solving existing ones if there is any. We have to assume that every time the driven car has same wear tyres, same unloaded weight and same HP. The problem is i didn't believe. Of course everyone chooses what to believe:
F1Tyrant wrote:
..... Excluding the Massa-related troubles in 2011
and the Abu Dhabi pole curse,....

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:02 pm 
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Need4Naiim wrote:
Of course everyone chooses what to believe:
F1Tyrant wrote:
..... Excluding the Massa-related troubles in 2011
and the Abu Dhabi pole curse,....

I'm not choosing what I want to believe. In India, Hamilton crashed into Massa again so it's not unfair to say Hamilton had Massa related troubles.

As for the Abu Dhabi Pole Curse:
2009: Ret
2010: Won the race and the WDC in the only final race to have four title contenders.
2011: Ret
2012: Ret
2013: 2nd
2014: 14th (refused to Ret)

I'm sure it's just a co-incidence but let me have some artistic licence calling it a "curse"...

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:18 pm 
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F1Tyrant wrote:
Need4Naiim wrote:
Of course everyone chooses what to believe:
F1Tyrant wrote:
..... Excluding the Massa-related troubles in 2011
and the Abu Dhabi pole curse,....

I'm not choosing what I want to believe. In India, Hamilton crashed into Massa again so it's not unfair to say Hamilton had Massa related troubles.

As for the Abu Dhabi Pole Curse:
2009: Ret
2010: Won the race and the WDC in the only final race to have four title contenders.
2011: Ret
2012: Ret
2013: 2nd
2014: 14th (refused to Ret)

I'm sure it's just a co-incidence but let me have some artistic licence calling it a "curse"...
Sure you can have artistic licence. But what kind of word will we look for other drivers who were SO far away from having even possibility of getting pole at those races just because of having lesser, slower cars?

Of course we have to get back to topic before fully getting off the course.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:41 am 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Don't know about the SIARPC but I can't buy for a minute that the F1 times are decided beforehand...

Even on Top Gear they still have to drive to a delta..?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:50 pm 
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wolfticket wrote:
It's a bit like top golfers having a round of crazy golf. It would just show how good they are at crazy golf. Interesting (and I'd like to see it :) ) but I wouldn't read anything into how good a golfer they are.


I couldn't disagree more. It's practicing with a simple car to get to know its limits, and then putting in 10 hot laps. That's driving. Not crazy anything.

Riccardo was frigging great.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:57 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
F1Tyrant wrote:
mcdo wrote:
An F1 driver sitting in a cheap car for maybe an hour on a test track
Vs
The expert of that test track (and probably the same car)

...I have my doubts over those lap times

Familiarity does play a big part in lap time but so does feel and talent. Hamilton has had great form on tracks that are new to the F1 grid as he seems to find the limit faster than everybody else.

Fuji '07 (1st), Europe '08 (2nd), Singapore '08 (2nd), Abu Dhabi '09 (DNF while leading), Korea '10 (2nd), India '11 (...7th...), USA '12 (1st) Austria '14 (2nd), Russia '14 (1st).

Excluding the Massa-related troubles in 2011 and the Abu Dhabi pole curse, Hamilton has never been outside to top 2 at a new circuit. My money is on Hamilton to win in Mexico but that's more a function of the Merc...

So if today's Ricciardo was Hamilton's team mate in each of those races, would he have been 0.7 a lap faster?


Well he sure smacked four time world champion Seb Vettel down, so why not? He also beat both the Mercs three times with a vastly inferior car.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:22 pm 
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netdog wrote:
mcdo wrote:
F1Tyrant wrote:
mcdo wrote:
An F1 driver sitting in a cheap car for maybe an hour on a test track
Vs
The expert of that test track (and probably the same car)

...I have my doubts over those lap times

Familiarity does play a big part in lap time but so does feel and talent. Hamilton has had great form on tracks that are new to the F1 grid as he seems to find the limit faster than everybody else.

Fuji '07 (1st), Europe '08 (2nd), Singapore '08 (2nd), Abu Dhabi '09 (DNF while leading), Korea '10 (2nd), India '11 (...7th...), USA '12 (1st) Austria '14 (2nd), Russia '14 (1st).

Excluding the Massa-related troubles in 2011 and the Abu Dhabi pole curse, Hamilton has never been outside to top 2 at a new circuit. My money is on Hamilton to win in Mexico but that's more a function of the Merc...

So if today's Ricciardo was Hamilton's team mate in each of those races, would he have been 0.7 a lap faster?


Well he sure smacked four time world champion Seb Vettel down, so why not? He also beat both the Mercs three times with a vastly inferior car.
He STILL has to face Bottas before proving he is the man to beat. ;) :-P

Seriously, i hope Williams 2015 car can win races.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:33 pm 
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netdog wrote:
wolfticket wrote:
It's a bit like top golfers having a round of crazy golf. It would just show how good they are at crazy golf. Interesting (and I'd like to see it :) ) but I wouldn't read anything into how good a golfer they are.


I couldn't disagree more. It's practicing with a simple car to get to know its limits, and then putting in 10 hot laps. That's driving. Not crazy anything.

Riccardo was frigging great.

It's more like them doing a round of pitch and putt. On different days. Their lap time will be a measure of their driver skill, but the results won't be comparable due to the differing weather conditions and wind direction.

Ricciardo was not 1.8 seconds faster than Vettel as team mates. Around Bahrain and Russia - which have similar lap times in an F1 car to the Top Gear track in the Liana - he was 0.5 and 0.7 seconds faster in qualifying.

That's not to take anything away from Ricciardo's lap. It was great, and I can quite believe he would be faster than Lewis (or any other F1 driver) if they set it on the same day. But the Top Gear leaderboard is not the "ultimate driver comparison metric" Clarkson likes to market it as.

What we need to see is this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swlgR4BB8ZA


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:49 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:

Yeah I'd love to see a modern version of that.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:49 pm 
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To be perfectly honest i find TG very boring. Any driver comparisons made are pointless unless done at the same time, weather, etc. Even then there is the simple fact that driving a 100hp car is completely different to controlling a 800hp car! All f1 drivers would do very equal times within a tenth or so if they all did it under the same conditions. Thats my view and i'm sticking with it!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:43 am 
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TG can be v entertaining, but there is so much that is obviously scripted nowadays.

Back on topic, I think its ridiculous to suggest that SIRPC times are pre-set, even more so F1 driver times.

All 'records' are broken, and TG is no exception.


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