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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 3:25 am 
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wolfticket wrote:
New nose 8O

I love it! This is what Macca should be about - trying the next new crazy silver bullet idea to get back to the front! :thumbup: :]

Hopefully it works, too...

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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:39 pm 
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It is pretty interesting to see that McLarens deficits aren't much different in a Renault than they were in a Honda. The other thing that is interesting to see is that TR isn't all that far behind Mc. Kind of have the feeling that if TR were using RB chassis and drivers that they would be ahead of McLaren. As a Nando fan, it is frustrating to see that team just flounder.


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 1:48 am 
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I thought this was going to first race this year where Mcalren will be 4th best team because this track should suit them and they have pretty good track record here. But the midfield is very close. Drivers can make a difference on this track so Mclaren will be hoping both do good laps and make it into Q3.

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 1:52 am 
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Apparently they have said they have an issue with slow speed corners and by the S2 times it backs it up so I'm not expecting miracles but if Alonso or Vandoorne nail it then I think they'll sneak in to Q3.

Actually think Stoff looked better today.

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 2:00 am 
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I agree. You can only #keepTheFaith so long,

Quite apart from the "We have a RB equal chassis" BS which has been comprehensively debunked, this year alone we have had, "Late decision to switch to Renault didn't put us behind" and "In Spain we will introduce the car we should've had in Melbourne, but was delayed cos the PU change" and so far in Monaco they are the slowest Renault powered car-ish.

Have fun :)

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 2:50 am 
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I don't agree about the deficit being similar - it's not.

That said, it's pretty clear that at least this chassis is not up there with the top three teams, and wouldn't be no matter what engine you put in it. This year was McLaren's big chance to prove that they were just being held back by the Honda engine, and - sad to say, as a Macca fan - they haven't done that.

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PF1 TOP THREE TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): 2017: 2nd| 2015: 1st
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 8:25 am 
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rodH wrote:
It is pretty interesting to see that McLarens deficits aren't much different in a Renault than they were in a Honda. The other thing that is interesting to see is that TR isn't all that far behind Mc. Kind of have the feeling that if TR were using RB chassis and drivers that they would be ahead of McLaren. As a Nando fan, it is frustrating to see that team just flounder.


"Isn't that far behind"... but they are.... considering this time last year they were competing with each other for measly points?

Now Mclaren are consistently fighting and have already gained more points with Renault than Honda. Not sure why people are nit picking holes with Mclaren.. they ARE better off with a Renault.. not to mention they have already had less failures...

The gap between 'the rest' of the field was small and is small... that's the nature of the other teams.. Honda wasn't the cause of all the issues but considering where Mclaren are now... they are better off and that is a fact.

13 points to 40 "not far behind"... that's like saying Mclaren are not far behind Ferrari... they are.. Toro's are sitting where Mclaren would be right now.. or maybe Force India if they were lucky.


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 11:09 am 
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Teddy007 wrote:
rodH wrote:
It is pretty interesting to see that McLarens deficits aren't much different in a Renault than they were in a Honda. The other thing that is interesting to see is that TR isn't all that far behind Mc. Kind of have the feeling that if TR were using RB chassis and drivers that they would be ahead of McLaren. As a Nando fan, it is frustrating to see that team just flounder.


"Isn't that far behind"... but they are.... considering this time last year they were competing with each other for measly points?

Now Mclaren are consistently fighting and have already gained more points with Renault than Honda. Not sure why people are nit picking holes with Mclaren.. they ARE better off with a Renault.. not to mention they have already had less failures...

The gap between 'the rest' of the field was small and is small... that's the nature of the other teams.. Honda wasn't the cause of all the issues but considering where Mclaren are now... they are better off and that is a fact.

13 points to 40 "not far behind"... that's like saying Mclaren are not far behind Ferrari... they are.. Toro's are sitting where Mclaren would be right now.. or maybe Force India if they were lucky.

Are they better off than they would have been with this years Honda and not having to delay packages due to changing engines though?

Whether they are better off with Renault currently or not, I'm still of the opinion they would have been better sticking with Honda till at least 2021 than going with Renault.


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 2:04 pm 
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dompclarke wrote:
Are they better off than they would have been with this years Honda and not having to delay packages due to changing engines though?
Whether they are better off with Renault currently or not, I'm still of the opinion they would have been better sticking with Honda till at least 2021 than going with Renault.


I just look at what matters:

Alonso 2017 17 points.
Alonso 2018 32 points.

Mclaren 2017 30 points.
Mclaren 2018 40 points.

Honda have improved, no doubt about that (should think so with it being 4th year). Mclaren have gone from 9th to 4th (last place was a team that scored points twice).

Mclaren have gone above Toro, Hass and Force India since the engine change. Was all that down to their chassis? or the engine? or both.

Only thing Mclaren did wrong.. was state that their chassis was the best... I didn't believe it.. and I hope no one did either. I didn't expect them to magically face the front runners.. not when those teams would improve too. The progress made with Honda was too small over 3 years. Best Honda year had 76 points.. Mclaren are on course to beat it by a margin.

I'm not saying Honda were 100% at fault.. not their issue if a gearbox goes or breaks etc.. it is when the engine continued to fail.

Mclaren are better off in 2018 under Renault and a true judge would be to see how RBR copes with Honda (if it happens) and how Mclaren/Renault perform over 3 years.


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 3:09 pm 
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dompclarke wrote:
Teddy007 wrote:
rodH wrote:
It is pretty interesting to see that McLarens deficits aren't much different in a Renault than they were in a Honda. The other thing that is interesting to see is that TR isn't all that far behind Mc. Kind of have the feeling that if TR were using RB chassis and drivers that they would be ahead of McLaren. As a Nando fan, it is frustrating to see that team just flounder.


"Isn't that far behind"... but they are.... considering this time last year they were competing with each other for measly points?

Now Mclaren are consistently fighting and have already gained more points with Renault than Honda. Not sure why people are nit picking holes with Mclaren.. they ARE better off with a Renault.. not to mention they have already had less failures...

The gap between 'the rest' of the field was small and is small... that's the nature of the other teams.. Honda wasn't the cause of all the issues but considering where Mclaren are now... they are better off and that is a fact.

13 points to 40 "not far behind"... that's like saying Mclaren are not far behind Ferrari... they are.. Toro's are sitting where Mclaren would be right now.. or maybe Force India if they were lucky.

Are they better off than they would have been with this years Honda and not having to delay packages due to changing engines though?

Whether they are better off with Renault currently or not, I'm still of the opinion they would have been better sticking with Honda till at least 2021 than going with Renault.

They wouldn't be better with Honda if they continued to put limitations on the design of the Honda engine which presently STR are not doing.

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 4:14 pm 
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They allowed structural changes to the engines in every winter of the partnership so I don't see that being much of an issue. It's an interesting question whether they'd be better off.

Plus's for staying...

Works status
50-100m added to Budget
Full chassis dyno access
Likely no rear suspension change
Likely they can get the Spain new nose concept car to Winter Testing with not having to do an engine and suspension swap at the same time.
Not 12 weeks behind rivals


Negative's

No change still hides chassis deficiencies.
A 10-20bhp deficit in race trim to what they have now and a worse ERS and still 40-50 gap to the leaders.
Poor working relationship
Likely no Alonso
Potential brain drain
Likely less sponsor interest including a bespoke fuel supplier


Performance wise I think they could've brought a better chassis if they stayed, ironically enough, but the team may still have been in a worse overall spot because of losing point hoover Alonso and any brain drain that departure sparked.

I think it's close though as maybe Alonso doesn't leave through lack of options or they kiss and make up.

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-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 5:32 pm 
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If for some reason they fail to be in Q3 tomorrow I think this will be a disaster for Mclaren. Because this is suppose to one of their best tracks along with Hungary and Singapore. I think Honda and TR are content. They are working much better. Moreover it does not matter if they finish 7th best or 9th best team. The dilemma would be that reliability is important to score points but Honda should probably go for performance. 3 engine rule obviously is not helping them.

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 5:35 pm 
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Teddy007 wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
Are they better off than they would have been with this years Honda and not having to delay packages due to changing engines though?
Whether they are better off with Renault currently or not, I'm still of the opinion they would have been better sticking with Honda till at least 2021 than going with Renault.


I just look at what matters:

Alonso 2017 17 points.
Alonso 2018 32 points.

Mclaren 2017 30 points.
Mclaren 2018 40 points.


What matters is the unanswerable question of how they'd have faired with the Honda in the back this year compared to the Renault.
You admit the Honda has improved so comparing to last year doesn't cut it!


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 6:49 pm 
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I have merged these threads as they were basically discussing the same thing.


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 8:26 pm 
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Shia Luck wrote:
I agree. You can only #keepTheFaith so long,

.......and so far in Monaco they are the slowest Renault powered car-ish.

Have fun :)


With Fernando at the wheel!!! :x


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