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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:28 am 
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Exediron wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
1.8 seconds slower than Red Bull with the same engine

It seems McLaren was also slower than Renault in Bahrain.

Really, that's the impression you got? Alonso was glued to Hulk practically the whole race, and made multiple attempts to overtake him. If he'd been in front, he would have built a gap easily.

McLaren was slower than Renault in qualifying, but not in the race.

I don't think he was glued. Hulk for most of race maintained some few seconds gap.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:26 am 
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I just read this headline - "Alonso: We need to raise our game" and thought it sounded familiar

http://www.f1zone.net/news/alonso-ferrari-will-have-to-raise-its-game/30666/

Fernando said this in 2014 before leaving Ferrari and Ferrari raised it's game in 2015.

I don't think McLaren will do what Ferrari did though. I just posted it because of the deja vu.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:34 am 
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All the more it looks like they are going down the Williams way. I hope not, Macca is a name I want to see at the top. And I'm a Ferrari fan!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:51 am 
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Every time I see this thread title, for some reason all I can think is, "Well, I'd rather have McLaren in no clothes than Flavio Briatore in swimwear..."

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:01 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Every time I see this thread title, for some reason all I can think is, "Well, I'd rather have McLaren in no clothes than Flavio Briatore in swimwear..."


Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!! :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:36 pm 
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dizlexik wrote:
Exediron wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
1.8 seconds slower than Red Bull with the same engine

It seems McLaren was also slower than Renault in Bahrain.

Really, that's the impression you got? Alonso was glued to Hulk practically the whole race, and made multiple attempts to overtake him. If he'd been in front, he would have built a gap easily.

McLaren was slower than Renault in qualifying, but not in the race.

I don't think he was glued. Hulk for most of race maintained some few seconds gap.


On softer tyres until the last stint though. Alonso was matching their pace on the harder tyres for the first two stints.

It would suggest they were quicker than Renault in race trim or Alonso had a monster day.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:47 pm 
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Although on paper they have got points. So if someone has not been watching on TV it looks like Mclaren has made a huge leap. But the way I look at it Mclaren are just slow. So far they have not qualified in Q3.

In Australia Alonso got lucky. I cannot see him finishing ahead of Max and Bottas again. Haas pitstop was a disaster so if we go by performance. Alonso instead of P5 should have been P9 at best. I think Hulk would have got P9 without VSC but I am giving them benefit of the doubt.

In Bahrain Grosjean should have made it and Alonso been out in Q1 itself. In race had RBR not had DNF's and unfortunate incident at pits for Kimi. Gasly would have got P7 and Alonso P10.

May be at winter testing they were too worried about reliability and have compromised performance but they are just slow

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:05 pm 
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Mercedes-Benz wrote:
Although on paper they have got points. So if someone has not been watching on TV it looks like Mclaren has made a huge leap. But the way I look at it Mclaren are just slow. So far they have not qualified in Q3.

In Australia Alonso got lucky. I cannot see him finishing ahead of Max and Bottas again. Haas pitstop was a disaster so if we go by performance. Alonso instead of P5 should have been P9 at best. I think Hulk would have got P9 without VSC but I am giving them benefit of the doubt.

In Bahrain Grosjean should have made it and Alonso been out in Q1 itself. In race had RBR not had DNF's and unfortunate incident at pits for Kimi. Gasly would have got P7 and Alonso P10.

May be at winter testing they were too worried about reliability and have compromised performance but they are just slow


They are having a mare in quali, apparently tyre related with a set up mistake along the way but they are really poor on a Saturday right now.

But again Alo was quicker during the race than the Renaults. Just vintage McLaren strategy and getting spooked by Mag's early stop and only doing 16 laps on the Softs killed them really. Then got caught in two minds with one stopping or not and then did far more laps on the SS than S.

Silly but Hulj couldn't drop Alo despite a tyre advantage in the first two stints. Race pace is actually pretty good. Obviously nit where they want to be but clearly better than a Saturday. But they suck in the straights and still don't gave an S duct. There seems to be some rumblings that the car the now is a bit of a hodge podge of different concepts with parts being brought and added when they are ready in the hope they add performance but without the new nose the differing aero concepts are clashing.

Talk of practically B-spec in Baku but I think Spain is more realistic as that's when the nose was due.

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-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:56 pm 
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It's safe to say that in the first two races, Mclaren was slower than last year Ferrari (aka HAAS 2018). Now that's a slap on face. May I add, looks also that it's slower than the Honda powered car?

Only this weekend will reveal is the newly upgraded Mclaren any better than the current one.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:09 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
It's safe to say that in the first two races, Mclaren was slower than last year Ferrari (aka HAAS 2018). Now that's a slap on face. May I add, looks also that it's slower than the Honda powered car?

Only this weekend will reveal is the newly upgraded Mclaren any better than the current one.


They're not getting the new nose until Spain I believe. Not sure what will be brought to China but it will be some job to fix those ills in a week.

I think it's going to sting until Spain at least and even then the others won't stand still.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:29 pm 
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currently splitting this topic since it has gone off topic from the original intension.

(previous comments discussing driver comparisons of schumi vs Alonso vs Hamilton vs vettel, 2012 results etc.....) that discussion can be found in this thread. http://forum.planet-f1.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14924&start=120

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:49 am 
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Sorry Mod T, it is easy to get derailed sometimes.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:53 am 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Mercedes-Benz wrote:
Although on paper they have got points. So if someone has not been watching on TV it looks like Mclaren has made a huge leap. But the way I look at it Mclaren are just slow. So far they have not qualified in Q3.

In Australia Alonso got lucky. I cannot see him finishing ahead of Max and Bottas again. Haas pitstop was a disaster so if we go by performance. Alonso instead of P5 should have been P9 at best. I think Hulk would have got P9 without VSC but I am giving them benefit of the doubt.

In Bahrain Grosjean should have made it and Alonso been out in Q1 itself. In race had RBR not had DNF's and unfortunate incident at pits for Kimi. Gasly would have got P7 and Alonso P10.

May be at winter testing they were too worried about reliability and have compromised performance but they are just slow


They are having a mare in quali, apparently tyre related with a set up mistake along the way but they are really poor on a Saturday right now.

But again Alo was quicker during the race than the Renaults. Just vintage McLaren strategy and getting spooked by Mag's early stop and only doing 16 laps on the Softs killed them really. Then got caught in two minds with one stopping or not and then did far more laps on the SS than S.

Silly but Hulj couldn't drop Alo despite a tyre advantage in the first two stints. Race pace is actually pretty good. Obviously nit where they want to be but clearly better than a Saturday. But they suck in the straights and still don't gave an S duct. There seems to be some rumblings that the car the now is a bit of a hodge podge of different concepts with parts being brought and added when they are ready in the hope they add performance but without the new nose the differing aero concepts are clashing.

Talk of practically B-spec in Baku but I think Spain is more realistic as that's when the nose was due.

yes I noticed that from the way both Alonso and Boullier have been talking McLaren have got virtually an all-new car being designed at the moment. It suggests they had to make significant design compromises in the switch from Honda to Renault and gives some hope that there is noticeably more performance for them to unlock at some point this year


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:59 am 
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TIL that McLaren actually surpassed Ferrari's title haul at one point.

End of 1998:
McLaren has 10 WDC and 8 WCC
Ferrari has 9 WDC and 8 WCC

End of 1999:
McLaren has 11 WDC and 8 WCC
Ferrari has 9 WDC and 9 WCC

Of course, then Schumacher happened.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:31 am 
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One feels that the the Mclaren naysayers will soon be eating humble pie.

Alonso recorded 7th fastest race lap, just 0.5s behind HAM & BOT, 0.1s behind RAI and 0.2s faster than VET with that time set on the medium tyre, compared to the others on Soft.

They're so slow they can't pass the WDC leader on the track... Oh wait!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:25 am 
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Fastest lap for sometime is misleading. It basically depends on tyres these days. But I do not know how Alonso got ahead of Haas. Sainz is also looking bad in front of Hulk. FI did not have a good race. It looked like Alonso would have finished P10 for the most part. Mclaren is pretty slow. Alonso will have to be at his best to beat Haas and Renault.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:33 am 
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The Mclaren car is just incredibly draggy. They had been getting tows from each other all weekend. Lol Not sure what the point is in doing that when fighting just to make q3.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:34 am 
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Battle Far wrote:
One feels that the the Mclaren naysayers will soon be eating humble pie.

Alonso recorded 7th fastest race lap, just 0.5s behind HAM & BOT, 0.1s behind RAI and 0.2s faster than VET with that time set on the medium tyre, compared to the others on Soft.

They're so slow they can't pass the WDC leader on the track... Oh wait!


Pretty good definition of a man clutching straws m8...

McLaren is, at the moment, not even close to Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull, thinking otherwise is delusional. Fastest laps nowadays means zilch, with all the tyre and fuel management going on its most of the time a circumstantial achievement.

Not to mention that Vettell’s Ferrari was damaged as FA observed after the race.

McLaren have no excuses now, they are running the same engine RedBull is but pace wise the former are on another planet; hard pill to swallow for a team that was claiming last year having one of the best, if not the best, chassis on the grid.

In the spirit of not being excessively hard on them, this is, up to a point, understandable as it’s a new package for them, but they either get their act straight fast or there will be no way to hide the obvious fact: they’ve lost it and they are not a top team anymore. They haven’t been for the past 6 years.

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