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When will McLaren get back on the podium?
Before the summer break 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
At Spa, miracle summer updates 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
In Singapore, they'll win it in fact! Button crashing out, so sad. 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
Before the end of the season 7%  7%  [ 9 ]
First half of 2016 17%  17%  [ 22 ]
Second half of 2016 23%  23%  [ 31 ]
2017 24%  24%  [ 32 ]
2018 14%  14%  [ 18 ]
After both current drivers have left the team 7%  7%  [ 9 ]
Never again, they'll be forced to quit the sport 5%  5%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 132
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:16 am 
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Would not place bets on any time span for McLaren-Honda, or any other team. The big problem in F1 is those other teams. I mean, really, they keep pushing which makes our life difficult. Its just not fair. :x

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:24 am 
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HS Thompson wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
I see no chance of them getting podium this season even if we have one crazy weather affected, SC ridden race. No chance at all. Specially when we have likes of Force India, Williams who are generally faster and ready to pounce when Merc or Ferrari or Redbull messes up.

So to get on podium in front of 2 other teams provided top 6 cars somehow all mess up is a bit of a stretch.

As far as regular podium is concerned, I dont see McLaren being there before 2018. Though there are some big changes coming next year. Power unit advantage enjoyed by Mercedes and Ferrari is too great to be overcome even without token system as those guys will also get free hand at development with them having a head start.
With Renault shown big improvements this year and McLaren and Honda still on backfoot, 2 years minimum for really competitive front end car is what I predict.


Even if Mercedes and Ferrari ceased all development for 2 years, I see ZERO chance of Honda scoring even a podium. The pace of their development is beyond slow.

The other teams are simply faster, smarter, and able to execute better. Honda is completely out of their league.


Interesting views which may well be true. No that I enjoy seeing McLaren (or any other team ever) slide back.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:51 am 
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one thing is for sure, if McLaren are still slow , where will Fernando want to be in 2018 , merc or retirement from f1


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:36 am 
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On pure pace? Not a chance in 2017.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:43 am 
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slide wrote:
one thing is for sure, if McLaren are still slow , where will Fernando want to be in 2018 , merc or retirement from f1


I think that depends more on how much you can push on the new tyres and how fun the new cars are to drive.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:41 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
slide wrote:
one thing is for sure, if McLaren are still slow , where will Fernando want to be in 2018 , merc or retirement from f1


I think that depends more on how much you can push on the new tyres and how fun the new cars are to drive.


Hopefully McLaren improve well for Alonso sake. Seeing him struggle here & there is painful. A driver of his calibre deserves so much more.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:33 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Well, according to Boullier not only would they have been on the podium this year with e.g. a Merc engine but they would have won races

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127560/mclaren-would-have-won-with-best-engine

"If we had the best engine this year, we would have won races," Boullier told Autosport.

"We know, the GPS traces [of corner speeds] tell us."


He's clearly laying the blame for their lack of pace at Honda's door

The truth will come out sooner or later. There are already reports indicating honda wants to provide another team in 2018. With Dennis out of the picture I think it will happen. Depending on how renault does in 2017 (if they fail to provide a strong engine) i think that other team could be redbull. Mclaren might be in deep trouble for the near future.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:40 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Well, according to Boullier not only would they have been on the podium this year with e.g. a Merc engine but they would have won races

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127560/mclaren-would-have-won-with-best-engine

"If we had the best engine this year, we would have won races," Boullier told Autosport.

"We know, the GPS traces [of corner speeds] tell us."


He's clearly laying the blame for their lack of pace at Honda's door

The truth will come out sooner or later. There are already reports indicating honda wants to provide another team in 2018. With Dennis out of the picture I think it will happen. Depending on how renault does in 2017 (if they fail to provide a strong engine) i think that other team could be redbull. Mclaren might be in deep trouble for the near future.

McLaren might be in deep trouble for other reasons. It seems like there's a lot of political in-fighting going on there. It's an absolute shame as I think they were showing signs of being on the right track lately but there are a lot of unsettling reports coming out now Ron has gone.

I'm not convinced though that Honda looking to supply another team is a sign of a rift with McLaren. It's just a logical evolution. And I'd be quite surprised if Red Bull jump ship from Renault, as they appear to have a good synergy with each other. Against that, it has to be said, they seem to be on a mission to pinch as many McLaren sponsors as possible so who knows?

Maybe they will supply Manor if the rumours of their potential new owner are true :twisted:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:54 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Well, according to Boullier not only would they have been on the podium this year with e.g. a Merc engine but they would have won races

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127560/mclaren-would-have-won-with-best-engine

"If we had the best engine this year, we would have won races," Boullier told Autosport.

"We know, the GPS traces [of corner speeds] tell us."


He's clearly laying the blame for their lack of pace at Honda's door

The truth will come out sooner or later. There are already reports indicating honda wants to provide another team in 2018. With Dennis out of the picture I think it will happen. Depending on how renault does in 2017 (if they fail to provide a strong engine) i think that other team could be redbull. Mclaren might be in deep trouble for the near future.

McLaren might be in deep trouble for other reasons. It seems like there's a lot of political in-fighting going on there. It's an absolute shame as I think they were showing signs of being on the right track lately but there are a lot of unsettling reports coming out now Ron has gone.

I'm not convinced though that Honda looking to supply another team is a sign of a rift with McLaren. It's just a logical evolution. And I'd be quite surprised if Red Bull jump ship from Renault, as they appear to have a good synergy with each other. Against that, it has to be said, they seem to be on a mission to pinch as many McLaren sponsors as possible so who knows?

Maybe they will supply Manor if the rumours of their potential new owner are true :twisted:


Things may look rosy between redbull and renault now but if the 2017 variant does not show improvement over this year's you can be sure Horner and co. wont be happy about it and will want to jump ship again.

Honda had expressed desire to supply another team before but it was blocked by Dennis. The reason i think a Honda powered Redbull would be bad for Mclaren is twofold: 1)mclaren wouldnt be a works team anymore but just a customer: 2) If redbull can run at the top of f1 with the honda engine it would expose the mclaren technical/aerodepartment. That is the last thing they want.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:06 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
Zoue wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Well, according to Boullier not only would they have been on the podium this year with e.g. a Merc engine but they would have won races

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127560/mclaren-would-have-won-with-best-engine

"If we had the best engine this year, we would have won races," Boullier told Autosport.

"We know, the GPS traces [of corner speeds] tell us."


He's clearly laying the blame for their lack of pace at Honda's door

The truth will come out sooner or later. There are already reports indicating honda wants to provide another team in 2018. With Dennis out of the picture I think it will happen. Depending on how renault does in 2017 (if they fail to provide a strong engine) i think that other team could be redbull. Mclaren might be in deep trouble for the near future.

McLaren might be in deep trouble for other reasons. It seems like there's a lot of political in-fighting going on there. It's an absolute shame as I think they were showing signs of being on the right track lately but there are a lot of unsettling reports coming out now Ron has gone.

I'm not convinced though that Honda looking to supply another team is a sign of a rift with McLaren. It's just a logical evolution. And I'd be quite surprised if Red Bull jump ship from Renault, as they appear to have a good synergy with each other. Against that, it has to be said, they seem to be on a mission to pinch as many McLaren sponsors as possible so who knows?

Maybe they will supply Manor if the rumours of their potential new owner are true :twisted:


Things may look rosy between redbull and renault now but if the 2017 variant does not show improvement over this year's you can be sure Horner and co. wont be happy about it and will want to jump ship again.

Honda had expressed desire to supply another team before but it was blocked by Dennis. The reason i think a Honda powered Redbull would be bad for Mclaren is twofold: 1)mclaren wouldnt be a works team anymore but just a customer: 2) If redbull can run at the top of f1 with the honda engine it would expose the mclaren technical/aerodepartment. That is the last thing they want.

But there again, would Honda want to partner a team which has a history of publicly and aggressively denouncing their engine supplier?

If Honda are a success next year, then it's likely McLaren will be, too. And if they're not, well, then it's not likely Red Bull would want them anyway


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:16 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Zoue wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Well, according to Boullier not only would they have been on the podium this year with e.g. a Merc engine but they would have won races

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127560/mclaren-would-have-won-with-best-engine

"If we had the best engine this year, we would have won races," Boullier told Autosport.

"We know, the GPS traces [of corner speeds] tell us."


He's clearly laying the blame for their lack of pace at Honda's door

The truth will come out sooner or later. There are already reports indicating honda wants to provide another team in 2018. With Dennis out of the picture I think it will happen. Depending on how renault does in 2017 (if they fail to provide a strong engine) i think that other team could be redbull. Mclaren might be in deep trouble for the near future.

McLaren might be in deep trouble for other reasons. It seems like there's a lot of political in-fighting going on there. It's an absolute shame as I think they were showing signs of being on the right track lately but there are a lot of unsettling reports coming out now Ron has gone.

I'm not convinced though that Honda looking to supply another team is a sign of a rift with McLaren. It's just a logical evolution. And I'd be quite surprised if Red Bull jump ship from Renault, as they appear to have a good synergy with each other. Against that, it has to be said, they seem to be on a mission to pinch as many McLaren sponsors as possible so who knows?

Maybe they will supply Manor if the rumours of their potential new owner are true :twisted:


Things may look rosy between redbull and renault now but if the 2017 variant does not show improvement over this year's you can be sure Horner and co. wont be happy about it and will want to jump ship again.

Honda had expressed desire to supply another team before but it was blocked by Dennis. The reason i think a Honda powered Redbull would be bad for Mclaren is twofold: 1)mclaren wouldnt be a works team anymore but just a customer: 2) If redbull can run at the top of f1 with the honda engine it would expose the mclaren technical/aerodepartment. That is the last thing they want.

But there again, would Honda want to partner a team which has a history of publicly and aggressively denouncing their engine supplier?

If Honda are a success next year, then it's likely McLaren will be, too. And if they're not, well, then it's not likely Red Bull would want them anyway


Im not so sure. I dont believe mclaren currently has the ability to build a car as well as Redbull. Thats been pretty much a fact for most of the past decade and in the wake of those more aero dependent regulations it would be an upset if that wasnt also true in 2017.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:22 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
Zoue wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Zoue wrote:
kleefton wrote:
The truth will come out sooner or later. There are already reports indicating honda wants to provide another team in 2018. With Dennis out of the picture I think it will happen. Depending on how renault does in 2017 (if they fail to provide a strong engine) i think that other team could be redbull. Mclaren might be in deep trouble for the near future.

McLaren might be in deep trouble for other reasons. It seems like there's a lot of political in-fighting going on there. It's an absolute shame as I think they were showing signs of being on the right track lately but there are a lot of unsettling reports coming out now Ron has gone.

I'm not convinced though that Honda looking to supply another team is a sign of a rift with McLaren. It's just a logical evolution. And I'd be quite surprised if Red Bull jump ship from Renault, as they appear to have a good synergy with each other. Against that, it has to be said, they seem to be on a mission to pinch as many McLaren sponsors as possible so who knows?

Maybe they will supply Manor if the rumours of their potential new owner are true :twisted:


Things may look rosy between redbull and renault now but if the 2017 variant does not show improvement over this year's you can be sure Horner and co. wont be happy about it and will want to jump ship again.

Honda had expressed desire to supply another team before but it was blocked by Dennis. The reason i think a Honda powered Redbull would be bad for Mclaren is twofold: 1)mclaren wouldnt be a works team anymore but just a customer: 2) If redbull can run at the top of f1 with the honda engine it would expose the mclaren technical/aerodepartment. That is the last thing they want.

But there again, would Honda want to partner a team which has a history of publicly and aggressively denouncing their engine supplier?

If Honda are a success next year, then it's likely McLaren will be, too. And if they're not, well, then it's not likely Red Bull would want them anyway


Im not so sure. I dont believe mclaren currently has the ability to build a car as well as Redbull. Thats been pretty much a fact for most of the past decade and in the wake of those more aero dependent regulations it would be an upset if that wasnt also true in 2017.

I'd agree that Red Bull is pretty much the class leader in the chassis department. And if McLaren produce a dog I might be inclined to agree with you. But I'd say Promodrou's influence has started to make itself felt and their cars aren't exactly poor. And everyone has GPS these days so by the same token if Red Bull feel that McLaren's chassis isn't too bad then why would they want to chase an engine partner which is demonstrably inferior to their existing one? They'd only ever want an upgrade, so the Honda would have to be amazing for Red Bull to want to switch

And in any event, by all accounts McLaren's partnership with Honda is more than simply supplier/customer: whatever might happen I'm sure the contract will ensure development is made with McLaren in mind.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:18 pm 
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As others have said, Mclaren is now decisions by committee, who all have different agendas and push or pull for different things and even results. (sounds strange, but I mean some want podiums now, others championships down the line )

Now that Ron is more or less gone, nothing will happen until there is complete meltdown there and a strong leader takes the wheel again.
This probably will not happen for a couple of years, and as it is a committee decision, may end up with the decision to bomb it and cut the losses. I am a long time Mclaren fan, but sorry guys dont hold your breath for it.


Hope I am wrong, but look at what is happening. Stacks of finance, a factory engine, 2 of the top 10 drivers and they fight with the backmarkres


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:13 am 
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https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2016/12/ ... d-turmoil/

JA wrote:
There were all sorts of claims about how great the McLaren chassis was, claims that are hard to quantify as the engine clearly held the car back, but rival engineers who competed against the team this season highlighted many details and steps that appeared to take the chassis to third best in class, albeit some way behind the Mercedes and Red Bull, which were on a similar level.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:59 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
slide wrote:
one thing is for sure, if McLaren are still slow , where will Fernando want to be in 2018 , merc or retirement from f1

I think that depends more on how much you can push on the new tyres and how fun the new cars are to drive.


Don't think that will be a factor. If the car is fun to drive in 11th place I don't think Alonso will stick around.

He won't extend his contract not when he will have plenty of offers in 2018. The sad truth is I don't see McLaren competing at the front not unless they build something special. Unless Alonso is given a car at the front he may simply retire from F1.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:54 pm 
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Teddy007 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
slide wrote:
one thing is for sure, if McLaren are still slow , where will Fernando want to be in 2018 , merc or retirement from f1

I think that depends more on how much you can push on the new tyres and how fun the new cars are to drive.


Don't think that will be a factor. If the car is fun to drive in 11th place I don't think Alonso will stick around.

He won't extend his contract not when he will have plenty of offers in 2018. The sad truth is I don't see McLaren competing at the front not unless they build something special. Unless Alonso is given a car at the front he may simply retire from F1.


He won't retire from F1 if he is enjoying racing in F1. Be that racing in 11th or 1st. Alonso has said many times that how the new cars are to drive will be the determining factor.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:25 pm 
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alonso happy to be midfield as long as he's enjoying it -is that what you are saying ?... I think that's doubtfull


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:49 am 
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slide wrote:
alonso happy to be midfield as long as he's enjoying it -is that what you are saying ?... I think that's doubtfull


Um.... no. If Alonso enjoys driving in F1 he isn't going to stop driving in F1. I don't think success is the determining factor as to whether Alonso retires or continues. If he enjoys racing why retire?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:48 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
slide wrote:
alonso happy to be midfield as long as he's enjoying it -is that what you are saying ?... I think that's doubtfull


Um.... no. If Alonso enjoys driving in F1 he isn't going to stop driving in F1. I don't think success is the determining factor as to whether Alonso retires or continues. If he enjoys racing why retire?


He has shown interest in racing in other series. Honestly if the car isnt good this year i dont see him staying. He's given them plenty of times to get things right and it just hasnt happened.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:49 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
slide wrote:
alonso happy to be midfield as long as he's enjoying it -is that what you are saying ?... I think that's doubtfull


Um.... no. If Alonso enjoys driving in F1 he isn't going to stop driving in F1. I don't think success is the determining factor as to whether Alonso retires or continues. If he enjoys racing why retire?


He has shown interest in racing in other series. Honestly if the car isnt good this year i dont see him staying. He's given them plenty of times to get things right and it just hasnt happened.


As i've said if he enjoys racing the cars he won't stop. Who decides not to do something they enjoy doing?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:05 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
slide wrote:
alonso happy to be midfield as long as he's enjoying it -is that what you are saying ?... I think that's doubtfull


Um.... no. If Alonso enjoys driving in F1 he isn't going to stop driving in F1. I don't think success is the determining factor as to whether Alonso retires or continues. If he enjoys racing why retire?


He has shown interest in racing in other series. Honestly if the car isnt good this year i dont see him staying. He's given them plenty of times to get things right and it just hasnt happened.


As i've said if he enjoys racing the cars he won't stop. Who decides not to do something they enjoy doing?

Only if he's winning, or at the very least fighting at the front. I've heard him say several times that he's at McLaren to win titles, but if this third season is as fruitless as the previous two then I can see him walking.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:45 pm 
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MistaVega23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
slide wrote:
alonso happy to be midfield as long as he's enjoying it -is that what you are saying ?... I think that's doubtfull


Um.... no. If Alonso enjoys driving in F1 he isn't going to stop driving in F1. I don't think success is the determining factor as to whether Alonso retires or continues. If he enjoys racing why retire?


He has shown interest in racing in other series. Honestly if the car isnt good this year i dont see him staying. He's given them plenty of times to get things right and it just hasnt happened.


As i've said if he enjoys racing the cars he won't stop. Who decides not to do something they enjoy doing?

Only if he's winning, or at the very least fighting at the front. I've heard him say several times that he's at McLaren to win titles, but if this third season is as fruitless as the previous two then I can see him walking.


He's also said countless times that his decision to retire will be decided on how much he enjoys driving the new evolution of cars.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:38 am 
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Countless times? I only recall him saying it once. What is more evident is his will to win another title with mclaren. I still think if mclaren is no good this year he will be out of there.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:36 am 
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kleefton wrote:
Countless times? I only recall him saying it once. What is more evident is his will to win another title with mclaren. I still think if mclaren is no good this year he will be out of there.


Well if his will to win another title I'd so strong why would he retire? That's hardly going to make it more likely.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:24 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Countless times? I only recall him saying it once. What is more evident is his will to win another title with mclaren. I still think if mclaren is no good this year he will be out of there.


Well if his will to win another title I'd so strong why would he retire? That's hardly going to make it more likely.

I see your point, but there must be a line between being in a position to fight for titles and enjoying driving the cars. I'm sure Alonso doesn't want to be there to make up the numbers.

2017 is crucial.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:59 pm 
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Well McLaren did have the best engine. It was the best engine by far in 2014 and they didn't manage to win. Big Ron said at the time there was no way you could win without being a customer team, yet Eric states that they would of won races this year with the Merc engine. The decision by McLaren to switch to a Honda engine in 2015 was disastrous, they should of remained with Merc for at least 2015 to allow Honda to develop the engine for the 2016 season. Personally I believe if you make a chassis/car/aero/mechanical combination which is better then the Merc AMG team and you have the same engine - you will win, McLaren proved this in 2010/11/12/13 by beating the works team with the same engine!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:06 pm 
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adywakey wrote:
Well McLaren did have the best engine. It was the best engine by far in 2014 and they didn't manage to win. Big Ron said at the time there was no way you could win without being a customer team, yet Eric states that they would of won races this year with the Merc engine. The decision by McLaren to switch to a Honda engine in 2015 was disastrous, they should of remained with Merc for at least 2015 to allow Honda to develop the engine for the 2016 season. Personally I believe if you make a chassis/car/aero/mechanical combination which is better then the Merc AMG team and you have the same engine - you will win, McLaren proved this in 2010/11/12/13 by beating the works team with the same engine!


But would the team be able to compete financially? A team needs manufacturer support to have a competitive budget.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:56 pm 
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MistaVega23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Countless times? I only recall him saying it once. What is more evident is his will to win another title with mclaren. I still think if mclaren is no good this year he will be out of there.


Well if his will to win another title I'd so strong why would he retire? That's hardly going to make it more likely.

I see your point, but there must be a line between being in a position to fight for titles and enjoying driving the cars. I'm sure Alonso doesn't want to be there to make up the numbers.

2017 is crucial.


It is extremely crucial in my opinion. If they do not do well this year I can see them stuck in the midfield for years and being the stomping ground for a bunch of pay drivers. I hope they realize that they have to step their game up asap.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:40 pm 
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79%, myself included, have now guessed wrong. Pretty astonishing.

Still one driver to go for the 6% who voted for the after both current drivers have left option, but boy were you guys probably close to being right =)

Surely 2018 will be it, though?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:30 pm 
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I had "After both current drivers have left the team". It's still looking good :o ...



... :(

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:10 am 
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Alonso will be on the podium next season. Can’t see him being a title contender though.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:22 am 
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Bentrovato wrote:
Alonso will be on the podium next season. Can’t see him being a title contender though.

:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:54 am 
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I voted for first half of 2016... :lol:

I really do think it'll happen next year, though.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:26 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
On pure pace? Not a chance in 2017.


Well...


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:10 pm 
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I'm still not convinced that Mclaren will be in the title hunt next season or even in the hunt for race wins. Of course, the Renault engine will be less of a handicap than the Honda engine and Alonso will be awesome.

But the Renault is still a fairly significant step behind the Ferrari and Merc engines. Mclaren will have to produce a chassis significantly better than that of Red Bull to be in with a shout of a title hunt.

The gap they have to bridge is gargantuan. Force India were best of the rest last season, and even they were way behind the front three teams. For Mclaren to be winning next season would require an almost unprecedented leap forward between seasons without a significant rule change.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:11 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
On pure pace? Not a chance in 2017.


Well...


Totally correct prediction. But it was kinda like predicting rain in Scotland.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:39 pm 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
I'm still not convinced that Mclaren will be in the title hunt next season or even in the hunt for race wins. Of course, the Renault engine will be less of a handicap than the Honda engine and Alonso will be awesome.

But the Renault is still a fairly significant step behind the Ferrari and Merc engines. Mclaren will have to produce a chassis significantly better than that of Red Bull to be in with a shout of a title hunt.

The gap they have to bridge is gargantuan. Force India were best of the rest last season, and even they were way behind the front three teams. For Mclaren to be winning next season would require an almost unprecedented leap forward between seasons without a significant rule change.


We've got the oil burn clampdown for next year which should allow Renault to close up in one lap pace and the highest modes in the race, if the clampdown works then there's 15-30bhp coming back towards them for free. I think performance wise they won't be any further away from the big two than Ferrari were this year so a challenge should be possible for at least Red Bull. I think reliability though has to be a concern with only 3 PU's allowed.

Not sure why McLaren need a significantly better car than Red Bull either unless you were just meaning to make up for the PU, they just need to get it reasonably close to them to be competitive. Alonso's had car deficits in the ballpark of half a second behind the Bulls before and still challenged for the title twice.

Anything within half a second of the Bulls* should offer the opportunity for a surprise podium or win although the strength in depth of the drivers and cars elsewhere is a lot tougher than 10/12 of course so I highly doubt a title challenge could be mounted with that sort of gap this time to be fair but if it's within it then I think they'll win a race somewhere but it might not even be Alonso that gets it.

EDIT* Assuming RB are on par or ahead of Merc/Ferrari to be clear.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:12 pm 
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When I say Mclaren would need a significantlybetter chassis than red bull, I mean to be seriously in the title hunt. Admittedly I am using the probably flawed assumption that the gap will remain fairly similar.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:39 pm 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
When I say Mclaren would need a significantlybetter chassis than red bull, I mean to be seriously in the title hunt. Admittedly I am using the probably flawed assumption that the gap will remain fairly similar.


Yeah I thought you could be coming from that angle and yeah I'd definitely agree with that if Renault remain as far away as they are now.

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-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:22 pm 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
On pure pace? Not a chance in 2017.


Well...


Totally correct prediction. But it was kinda like predicting rain in Scotland.


True. But I also predicted around May 2015 they won't get on podium as long as there's McHonda. I was laughed off and told they'd be winning races by end-2015.


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