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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:23 am 
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The best part is World Champ and I can’t remember him being voted driver of the day this season (or last). :lol: :?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:25 am 
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Worldchampion wrote:
The best part is World Champ and I can’t remember him being voted driver of the day this season (or last). :lol: :?


Will be interesting to see if he is considered driver of the season for this year that considered.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:37 pm 
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Worldchampion wrote:
The best part is World Champ and I can’t remember him being voted driver of the day this season (or last). :lol: :?


Been too busy voting for drivers which crash on their first lap and make a recovery drive up to 5th


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:20 pm 
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Worldchampion wrote:
The best part is World Champ and I can’t remember him being voted driver of the day this season (or last). :lol: :?

Hamilton may have a lot of fans but not actual fanatics. ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:44 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Worldchampion wrote:
The best part is World Champ and I can’t remember him being voted driver of the day this season (or last). :lol: :?

Hamilton may have a lot of fans but not actual fanatics. ;)

8O

Come now, poker. He certainly has his share of "fanatics", certainly in this forum.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:50 pm 
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Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Worldchampion wrote:
The best part is World Champ and I can’t remember him being voted driver of the day this season (or last). :lol: :?

Hamilton may have a lot of fans but not actual fanatics. ;)

8O

Come now, poker. He certainly has his share of "fanatics", certainly in this forum.


Not enough that care enough to vote him driver of the day on the official pole. That's what Poker means.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:28 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Worldchampion wrote:
The best part is World Champ and I can’t remember him being voted driver of the day this season (or last). :lol: :?

Hamilton may have a lot of fans but not actual fanatics. ;)


Iv'e always wondered what the criteria is to qualify as a Ham Fanatic? From what I've read from the Hamfan critics on here, they are all supposed to think the same and won't hear a word against the man. Obviously these fanatics rarely vote for Ham as DotD; or are they so small in number as to be irrelevant poll wise?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:52 am 
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Out of curiosity...

Hamilton has won Driver of the Day 5 times on the polls conducted here on the P-F1 forums, the most of any driver (Bottas and Leclerc are joint second with 4 each). But if you look at each result, an interesting pattern reveals itself:

01: Australia: Bottas (Winner)
02: Bahrain: Leclerc (3rd place, should have been winner)
03: China: Albon (Strong recovery drive)
04: Baku: Bottas (Winner)
05: Spain: Hamilton (Winner)
06: Monaco: Hamilton (Winner)
07: Canada: Stroll (Strong drive in a midfield car)
08: France: Hamilton (Winner)
09: Austria: Verstappen (Winner)
10: Britain: Leclerc (Racecraft, as far as I can tell)
11: Germany: Kvyat (Podium in a midfield car)
12: Hungary: Hamilton (Winner)
13: Belgium: Leclerc (Winner)
14: Italy: Leclerc (Winner)
15: Singapore: Vettel (Winner)
16: Russia: Sainz (Strong drive in a midfield car)
17: Japan: Bottas (Winner)
18: Mexico: Hamilton (Winner)
19: USA: Bottas (Winner)

Out of 19 polls, 13 of them were won by the winner. Of the remaining 6 races, interestingly enough, all but one (Germany) were won by Hamilton.

So in other words, while I'm no pro-Hamilton conspiracy theorist, it is empirically true (at least in 2019) that Hamilton is less likely to win Driver of the Day when he wins a race than any other driver except for Verstappen, who also only won Driver of the Day 50% of the times he won a race.

Notably, outside Leclerc, no driver from a top car ever won Driver of the Day when he didn't win. It was always a midfield car if it wasn't the winner, and Leclerc's result in Britain is the only real anomaly -- most people in Bahrain voted as if he had won, since it was widely agreed that he deserved to do so.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:04 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Out of curiosity...

Hamilton has won Driver of the Day 5 times on the polls conducted here on the P-F1 forums, the most of any driver (Bottas and Leclerc are joint second with 4 each). But if you look at each result, an interesting pattern reveals itself:

01: Australia: Bottas (Winner)
02: Bahrain: Leclerc (3rd place, should have been winner)
03: China: Albon (Strong recovery drive)
04: Baku: Bottas (Winner)
05: Spain: Hamilton (Winner)
06: Monaco: Hamilton (Winner)
07: Canada: Stroll (Strong drive in a midfield car)
08: France: Hamilton (Winner)
09: Austria: Verstappen (Winner)
10: Britain: Leclerc (Racecraft, as far as I can tell)
11: Germany: Kvyat (Podium in a midfield car)
12: Hungary: Hamilton (Winner)
13: Belgium: Leclerc (Winner)
14: Italy: Leclerc (Winner)
15: Singapore: Vettel (Winner)
16: Russia: Sainz (Strong drive in a midfield car)
17: Japan: Bottas (Winner)
18: Mexico: Hamilton (Winner)
19: USA: Bottas (Winner)

Out of 19 polls, 13 of them were won by the winner. Of the remaining 6 races, interestingly enough, all but one (Germany) were won by Hamilton.

So in other words, while I'm no pro-Hamilton conspiracy theorist, it is empirically true (at least in 2019) that Hamilton is less likely to win Driver of the Day when he wins a race than any other driver except for Verstappen, who also only won Driver of the Day 50% of the times he won a race.

Notably, outside Leclerc, no driver from a top car ever won Driver of the Day when he didn't win. It was always a midfield car if it wasn't the winner, and Leclerc's result in Britain is the only real anomaly -- most people in Bahrain voted as if he had won, since it was widely agreed that he deserved to do so.


I am confused at your first paragraph after the list of DOTD winners, or have I misunderstood?

I didn’t realise Leclerc won DOTD in Britain, that seems crazy.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:14 am 
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Good post exediron, thanks for the effort. I don't think there are actually many fanatics here... sure he has a lot of fans but that's pretty normal, it would be weirder if he didn't.

I would love to see the official driver of the day for each race I'm off to google it now

As I suspected... Hamilton has indeed never won the official driver of the day this year LOL

Verstappen x6
Leclerc x5
Vettel x3
Albon x2
Norris x2
Bottas X2

Hilarious really, he's the only driver in a top 6 car (aside from gasly lol) to not win driver of the day, yet he won the WDC with ease hahahaha

He didn't even win it for Hungary!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:40 am 
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It's poor form -- even Bottas has won it twice. Somehow Ferrari have DOTD wins between them but perhaps that's because Ferrari are the most popular team? Ultimately, there is probably Hamilton fatigue and also the general expectation that he's going to do well, and as such he's being taken for granted.

These things have always been judged with a heavy taint by way of relative expectations, however.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:44 am 
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Invade wrote:
It's poor form -- even Bottas has won it twice. Somehow Ferrari have DOTD wins between them but perhaps that's because Ferrari are the most popular team? Ultimately, there is probably Hamilton fatigue and also the general expectation that he's going to do well, and as such he's being taken for granted.

These things have always been judged with a heavy taint by way of relative expectations, however.

Sure, but come on, not all voting can down to expectations from Hamilton and Ferrari love...


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:49 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
Invade wrote:
It's poor form -- even Bottas has won it twice. Somehow Ferrari have DOTD wins between them but perhaps that's because Ferrari are the most popular team? Ultimately, there is probably Hamilton fatigue and also the general expectation that he's going to do well, and as such he's being taken for granted.

These things have always been judged with a heavy taint by way of relative expectations, however.

Sure, but come on, not all voting can down to expectations from Hamilton and Ferrari love...



Sure, but there only needs to be a certain amount of sway to regularly swing the vote, rather that it being an all or nothing scenario.

Well, like I said, there is probably some Hamilton fatigue. What other factors do you reckon are at play? Verstappen has a leg up every other weekend and is still the new shiny and exciting thing for much of the F1 fandom. However I can well believe he was the best driver on a Sunday six or so times this year. Any way you slice it though Hamilton sure ain't punching through for the public opinion. Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:51 am 
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Official driver of the day is nothing more than a popularity contest really.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:01 am 
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Invade wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Invade wrote:
It's poor form -- even Bottas has won it twice. Somehow Ferrari have DOTD wins between them but perhaps that's because Ferrari are the most popular team? Ultimately, there is probably Hamilton fatigue and also the general expectation that he's going to do well, and as such he's being taken for granted.

These things have always been judged with a heavy taint by way of relative expectations, however.

Sure, but come on, not all voting can down to expectations from Hamilton and Ferrari love...



Sure, but there only needs to be a certain amount of sway to regularly swing the vote, rather that it being an all or nothing scenario.

Well, like I said, there is probably some Hamilton fatigue. What other factors do you reckon are at play? Verstappen has a leg up every other weekend and is still the new shiny and exciting thing for much of the F1 fandom. However I can well believe he was the best driver on a Sunday six or so times this year. Any way you slice it though Hamilton sure ain't punching through for the public opinion. Thoughts?


Not sure, but Hamilton didn't get a single win on the official one apparently, can it all be fatigue and Ferrari love? I'm not denying that some people are probably fatigued by the continuous success of Hamilton and Mercedes and surely we have new exciting prospects, I'm just wondering how much of the voting is down to that. I find it difficult to believe that all pundits vote every race weekend thinking "oh, Hamilton again, NOPE".

As FormulaFun says, being that good means that you are judged differently, which is a compliment really, but it can't ALL be that. Could it be that he didn't shine as much as other seasons, but the momentum is still there, something that helped him win this? Much like 2003, when Schumi was definitely not the best driver, but he still won the WDC somehow. Not saying that they drove badly, just maybe not as good as other seasons.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:01 am 
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Invade wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Invade wrote:
It's poor form -- even Bottas has won it twice. Somehow Ferrari have DOTD wins between them but perhaps that's because Ferrari are the most popular team? Ultimately, there is probably Hamilton fatigue and also the general expectation that he's going to do well, and as such he's being taken for granted.

These things have always been judged with a heavy taint by way of relative expectations, however.

Sure, but come on, not all voting can down to expectations from Hamilton and Ferrari love...



Sure, but there only needs to be a certain amount of sway to regularly swing the vote, rather that it being an all or nothing scenario.

Well, like I said, there is probably some Hamilton fatigue. What other factors do you reckon are at play? Verstappen has a leg up every other weekend and is still the new shiny and exciting thing for much of the F1 fandom. However I can well believe he was the best driver on a Sunday six or so times this year. Any way you slice it though Hamilton sure ain't punching through for the public opinion. Thoughts?


I think people expect Hamilton to do well. A lights to flag dominant win won't get him much in the way of plaudits because people see it as a bit meh. They expect him to do that.

Edit - I was also going to say the UK vote is split four ways but then noticed that hasn't stopped Norris bagging 2 wins.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:02 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Invade wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Invade wrote:
It's poor form -- even Bottas has won it twice. Somehow Ferrari have DOTD wins between them but perhaps that's because Ferrari are the most popular team? Ultimately, there is probably Hamilton fatigue and also the general expectation that he's going to do well, and as such he's being taken for granted.

These things have always been judged with a heavy taint by way of relative expectations, however.

Sure, but come on, not all voting can down to expectations from Hamilton and Ferrari love...



Sure, but there only needs to be a certain amount of sway to regularly swing the vote, rather that it being an all or nothing scenario.

Well, like I said, there is probably some Hamilton fatigue. What other factors do you reckon are at play? Verstappen has a leg up every other weekend and is still the new shiny and exciting thing for much of the F1 fandom. However I can well believe he was the best driver on a Sunday six or so times this year. Any way you slice it though Hamilton sure ain't punching through for the public opinion. Thoughts?


I think people expect Hamilton to do well. A lights to flag dominant win won't get him much in the way of plaudits because people see it as a bit meh. They expect him to do that.

Isn't that the case with most pole to flag dominance type races?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:03 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
Invade wrote:
It's poor form -- even Bottas has won it twice. Somehow Ferrari have DOTD wins between them but perhaps that's because Ferrari are the most popular team? Ultimately, there is probably Hamilton fatigue and also the general expectation that he's going to do well, and as such he's being taken for granted.

These things have always been judged with a heavy taint by way of relative expectations, however.

Sure, but come on, not all voting can down to expectations from Hamilton and Ferrari love...


Ofcourse it is, do you really think Hamilton would have won DotD in Australia, Bahrain, Hungary, Spa, Monza, Singapore, Russia, Canada, Japan and probably others for doing what the actuals winners of DotD did on each of the weekends. Of course he wouldn't. In fact the last time he won DotD was the 2018 German gp when he won from 14th on the grid, this is the level he is obviously held to.

Other than that it's just pretty much Verstappen wins it regardless


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:10 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Invade wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Invade wrote:
It's poor form -- even Bottas has won it twice. Somehow Ferrari have DOTD wins between them but perhaps that's because Ferrari are the most popular team? Ultimately, there is probably Hamilton fatigue and also the general expectation that he's going to do well, and as such he's being taken for granted.

These things have always been judged with a heavy taint by way of relative expectations, however.

Sure, but come on, not all voting can down to expectations from Hamilton and Ferrari love...



Sure, but there only needs to be a certain amount of sway to regularly swing the vote, rather that it being an all or nothing scenario.

Well, like I said, there is probably some Hamilton fatigue. What other factors do you reckon are at play? Verstappen has a leg up every other weekend and is still the new shiny and exciting thing for much of the F1 fandom. However I can well believe he was the best driver on a Sunday six or so times this year. Any way you slice it though Hamilton sure ain't punching through for the public opinion. Thoughts?


I think people expect Hamilton to do well. A lights to flag dominant win won't get him much in the way of plaudits because people see it as a bit meh. They expect him to do that.

Isn't that the case with most pole to flag dominance type races?


Is it? People seem much more impressed with it from Bottas because it is exceptional for him or Verstappen because they don't think the car is capable of that.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:25 am 
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FormulaFun wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Invade wrote:
It's poor form -- even Bottas has won it twice. Somehow Ferrari have DOTD wins between them but perhaps that's because Ferrari are the most popular team? Ultimately, there is probably Hamilton fatigue and also the general expectation that he's going to do well, and as such he's being taken for granted.

These things have always been judged with a heavy taint by way of relative expectations, however.

Sure, but come on, not all voting can down to expectations from Hamilton and Ferrari love...


Ofcourse it is, do you really think Hamilton would have won DotD in Australia, Bahrain, Hungary, Spa, Monza, Singapore, Russia, Canada, Japan and probably others for doing what the actuals winners of DotD did on each of the weekends. Of course he wouldn't. In fact the last time he won DotD was the 2018 German gp when he won from 14th on the grid, this is the level he is obviously held to.

Other than that it's just pretty much Verstappen wins it regardless

So you want to paint all of them brainless and blind to whatever Hamilton does unless he wins from the back?? Every single race for over a year??? Feel free, I wont pretend that I know all the voters and how they think. I find it equally strange that Hamilton hasn't won one mind you, I just think that it could be that other drivers were deemed to have had better races on merit. He certainly is a bit of a victim of his own success, I just can't justify that it is all down to that.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:28 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Invade wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Sure, but come on, not all voting can down to expectations from Hamilton and Ferrari love...



Sure, but there only needs to be a certain amount of sway to regularly swing the vote, rather that it being an all or nothing scenario.

Well, like I said, there is probably some Hamilton fatigue. What other factors do you reckon are at play? Verstappen has a leg up every other weekend and is still the new shiny and exciting thing for much of the F1 fandom. However I can well believe he was the best driver on a Sunday six or so times this year. Any way you slice it though Hamilton sure ain't punching through for the public opinion. Thoughts?


I think people expect Hamilton to do well. A lights to flag dominant win won't get him much in the way of plaudits because people see it as a bit meh. They expect him to do that.

Isn't that the case with most pole to flag dominance type races?


Is it? People seem much more impressed with it from Bottas because it is exceptional for him or Verstappen because they don't think the car is capable of that.

Well, because Bottas has a much better team mate in a top car and the RB is indeed inferior to the other top two cars usually. I wonder how was Vettel's voting in his dominant years.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:26 am 
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Could it be that Hamilton has raised his own bar in this respect? From very good to exceptional to the point where he would probably need to do something out of this world (metaphorically) to win the vote.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:39 pm 
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tootsie323 wrote:
Could it be that Hamilton has raised his own bar in this respect? From very good to exceptional to the point where he would probably need to do something out of this world (metaphorically) to win the vote.


It was something thrown at the Ham detractors for a number of years; 'why do you hold him to a higher standard than other drivers when judging him?'

Now I think most of us do judge him to a higher standard for the reasons you say. Probably rightly.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:00 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Invade wrote:
It's poor form -- even Bottas has won it twice. Somehow Ferrari have DOTD wins between them but perhaps that's because Ferrari are the most popular team? Ultimately, there is probably Hamilton fatigue and also the general expectation that he's going to do well, and as such he's being taken for granted.

These things have always been judged with a heavy taint by way of relative expectations, however.

Sure, but come on, not all voting can down to expectations from Hamilton and Ferrari love...


Ofcourse it is, do you really think Hamilton would have won DotD in Australia, Bahrain, Hungary, Spa, Monza, Singapore, Russia, Canada, Japan and probably others for doing what the actuals winners of DotD did on each of the weekends. Of course he wouldn't. In fact the last time he won DotD was the 2018 German gp when he won from 14th on the grid, this is the level he is obviously held to.

Other than that it's just pretty much Verstappen wins it regardless

So you want to paint all of them brainless and blind to whatever Hamilton does unless he wins from the back?? Every single race for over a year??? Feel free, I wont pretend that I know all the voters and how they think. I find it equally strange that Hamilton hasn't won one mind you, I just think that it could be that other drivers were deemed to have had better races on merit. He certainly is a bit of a victim of his own success, I just can't justify that it is all down to that.


I'm simply illustrating that the standard for Ham is such that he only wins DotD for very exceptional drives whereas others will win it for being mildly impressive. If he were held to the standard of Verstappen or leclerc then he would undoubtedly have about 4 or 5 DotDs


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:59 pm 
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Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Worldchampion wrote:
The best part is World Champ and I can’t remember him being voted driver of the day this season (or last). :lol: :?

Hamilton may have a lot of fans but not actual fanatics. ;)

8O

Come now, poker. He certainly has his share of "fanatics", certainly in this forum.

He's won 10 races but only won 5 DoTD awards, what you may conceive the forum to be is certainly not shown in how they actually vote, I've said it before that you tend to misjudge the reality of such things in particular if Hamilton happens to come top of anything.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:15 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Invade wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Invade wrote:
It's poor form -- even Bottas has won it twice. Somehow Ferrari have DOTD wins between them but perhaps that's because Ferrari are the most popular team? Ultimately, there is probably Hamilton fatigue and also the general expectation that he's going to do well, and as such he's being taken for granted.

These things have always been judged with a heavy taint by way of relative expectations, however.

Sure, but come on, not all voting can down to expectations from Hamilton and Ferrari love...



Sure, but there only needs to be a certain amount of sway to regularly swing the vote, rather that it being an all or nothing scenario.

Well, like I said, there is probably some Hamilton fatigue. What other factors do you reckon are at play? Verstappen has a leg up every other weekend and is still the new shiny and exciting thing for much of the F1 fandom. However I can well believe he was the best driver on a Sunday six or so times this year. Any way you slice it though Hamilton sure ain't punching through for the public opinion. Thoughts?


Not sure, but Hamilton didn't get a single win on the official one apparently, can it all be fatigue and Ferrari love? I'm not denying that some people are probably fatigued by the continuous success of Hamilton and Mercedes and surely we have new exciting prospects, I'm just wondering how much of the voting is down to that. I find it difficult to believe that all pundits vote every race weekend thinking "oh, Hamilton again, NOPE".

As FormulaFun says, being that good means that you are judged differently, which is a compliment really, but it can't ALL be that. Could it be that he didn't shine as much as other seasons, but the momentum is still there, something that helped him win this? Much like 2003, when Schumi was definitely not the best driver, but he still won the WDC somehow. Not saying that they drove badly, just maybe not as good as other seasons.

I think it's a poor argument to say that Hamilton simply didn't shine enough to get 1 DoTD and it's a symptom of him simply not driving as well this year.

As been said there's clearly an anti-vote against Hamilton, as in not him again and any other driver that wins is seen as more as a knight in shiny armour, on top of that you have the obvious pro Ferrari and pro Verstappen votes from their army of fans.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:17 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Invade wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Invade wrote:
It's poor form -- even Bottas has won it twice. Somehow Ferrari have DOTD wins between them but perhaps that's because Ferrari are the most popular team? Ultimately, there is probably Hamilton fatigue and also the general expectation that he's going to do well, and as such he's being taken for granted.

These things have always been judged with a heavy taint by way of relative expectations, however.

Sure, but come on, not all voting can down to expectations from Hamilton and Ferrari love...



Sure, but there only needs to be a certain amount of sway to regularly swing the vote, rather that it being an all or nothing scenario.

Well, like I said, there is probably some Hamilton fatigue. What other factors do you reckon are at play? Verstappen has a leg up every other weekend and is still the new shiny and exciting thing for much of the F1 fandom. However I can well believe he was the best driver on a Sunday six or so times this year. Any way you slice it though Hamilton sure ain't punching through for the public opinion. Thoughts?


I think people expect Hamilton to do well. A lights to flag dominant win won't get him much in the way of plaudits because people see it as a bit meh. They expect him to do that.

Isn't that the case with most pole to flag dominance type races?

I somehow doubt it.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:20 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Invade wrote:
Sure, but there only needs to be a certain amount of sway to regularly swing the vote, rather that it being an all or nothing scenario.

Well, like I said, there is probably some Hamilton fatigue. What other factors do you reckon are at play? Verstappen has a leg up every other weekend and is still the new shiny and exciting thing for much of the F1 fandom. However I can well believe he was the best driver on a Sunday six or so times this year. Any way you slice it though Hamilton sure ain't punching through for the public opinion. Thoughts?


I think people expect Hamilton to do well. A lights to flag dominant win won't get him much in the way of plaudits because people see it as a bit meh. They expect him to do that.

Isn't that the case with most pole to flag dominance type races?


Is it? People seem much more impressed with it from Bottas because it is exceptional for him or Verstappen because they don't think the car is capable of that.

Well, because Bottas has a much better team mate in a top car and the RB is indeed inferior to the other top two cars usually. I wonder how was Vettel's voting in his dominant years.

You've just said that Hamilton is held to a higher standard than other drivers.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:15 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Out of 19 polls, 13 of them were won by the winner. Of the remaining 6 races, interestingly enough, all but one (Germany) were won by Hamilton.

I am confused at your first paragraph after the list of DOTD winners, or have I misunderstood?

I can see how it's a little confusing. Thirteen of the polls were won by the race winner, separate from the poll winner.

mikeyg123 wrote:
I think people expect Hamilton to do well. A lights to flag dominant win won't get him much in the way of plaudits because people see it as a bit meh. They expect him to do that.

I agree with this, and I think it's at the core of Hamilton's poor DotD performance (at least here on P-F1 where we vote pretty rationally on average). Driver of the Day is often awarded to the drivers who impressed the most, not necessarily the ones who simply delivered the best performance -- for example, Stroll winning in Canada. Hamilton is expected to win, whereas for Bottas it's a surprise.

Additionally, if you look at the races Hamilton won but wasn't DotD for:

Bahrain: Inherited what would have been Leclerc's impressive debut win, so no surprise here.
China: No explanation for this one, unless I'm forgetting something that helped Hamilton win.
Canada: A lot of people felt Vettel won this race. I think neither front runner winning the poll was a reflection of the general dissatisfaction with the result.
Britain: The safety car locked in Hamilton's strategic advantage, so people might have felt it wasn't an earned win.
Russia: Inherited the win from both Ferraris, who required bad luck to lose.

In fact, if you look at Verstappen's missed win (Germany) it follows the same pattern. All his competition crashed in the wet and he coasted to victory, so it was viewed as an 'easy' win for him.

In summary, I think Lewis (and to a lesser extent Max) are held to a standard where simply winning isn't enough. For good or ill, people need more than that to be impressed.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:28 pm 
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I’m surprised Hamilton didn’t get DOTD in Britain - he set the fastest lap on the last lap on a worn set of hard tyres as I recall.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:09 pm 
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-K- wrote:
I’m surprised Hamilton didn’t get DOTD in Britain - he set the fastest lap on the last lap on a worn set of hard tyres as I recall.

He did, and it should be noted that he was the runner-up. People felt very strongly about Leclerc at this point, however: he won with over double the number of votes Hamilton had (34% vs 17%).

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:19 am 
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Quote:

In summary, I think Lewis (and to a lesser extent Max) are held to a standard where simply winning isn't enough. For good or ill, people need more than that to be impressed.


As a Lewis fan, I reckon he could start from the back, transform his car to a unicorn fly over each of the competitors taking rainbow coloured dumps in em and win yet still wouldn’t get one of the “drivers of the day”

But that’s how it’s been since he was a lil champ in a kart. A minority, an outsider without a Schumacher surname. Just talent vs the money, the establishment and so-called “pedigree”.

In the end the only driver of the day scale that matters in history is the one who stands atop the podium, and the records have already written a role model I’ll be prodding my kids to look at.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:44 am 
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Worldchampion wrote:
Quote:

In summary, I think Lewis (and to a lesser extent Max) are held to a standard where simply winning isn't enough. For good or ill, people need more than that to be impressed.


As a Lewis fan, I reckon he could start from the back, transform his car to a unicorn fly over each of the competitors taking rainbow coloured dumps in em and win yet still wouldn’t get one of the “drivers of the day”

But that’s how it’s been since he was a lil champ in a kart. A minority, an outsider without a Schumacher surname. Just talent vs the money, the establishment and so-called “pedigree”.

In the end the only driver of the day scale that matters in history is the one who stands atop the podium, and the records have already written a role model I’ll be prodding my kids to look at.


So the insinuation is that people who vote in the F1 DoD poll are racist ?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:49 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
Worldchampion wrote:
Quote:

In summary, I think Lewis (and to a lesser extent Max) are held to a standard where simply winning isn't enough. For good or ill, people need more than that to be impressed.


As a Lewis fan, I reckon he could start from the back, transform his car to a unicorn fly over each of the competitors taking rainbow coloured dumps in em and win yet still wouldn’t get one of the “drivers of the day”

But that’s how it’s been since he was a lil champ in a kart. A minority, an outsider without a Schumacher surname. Just talent vs the money, the establishment and so-called “pedigree”.

In the end the only driver of the day scale that matters in history is the one who stands atop the podium, and the records have already written a role model I’ll be prodding my kids to look at.


So the insinuation is that people who vote in the F1 DoD poll are racist ?


Hey you said it. But Surly Nobody who follows F1 could be racist. That’s just preposterous.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:39 am 
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Worldchampion wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Worldchampion wrote:
Quote:

In summary, I think Lewis (and to a lesser extent Max) are held to a standard where simply winning isn't enough. For good or ill, people need more than that to be impressed.


As a Lewis fan, I reckon he could start from the back, transform his car to a unicorn fly over each of the competitors taking rainbow coloured dumps in em and win yet still wouldn’t get one of the “drivers of the day”

But that’s how it’s been since he was a lil champ in a kart. A minority, an outsider without a Schumacher surname. Just talent vs the money, the establishment and so-called “pedigree”.

In the end the only driver of the day scale that matters in history is the one who stands atop the podium, and the records have already written a role model I’ll be prodding my kids to look at.


So the insinuation is that people who vote in the F1 DoD poll are racist ?


Hey you said it. But Surly Nobody who follows F1 could be racist. That’s just preposterous.


I think whats preposterous is the inference that there's an army of racist F1 fans who regularly launch a coordinated post race attack on Hamilton in the DoD poll.

You've not maybe entertained the thought that he rarely wins the DoD poll because he's in the exclusive position of being considered the best driver in the field in what's been widely regarded as the best car in the field so as a result he's expected to deliver the results he delivers?

Did you consider that as perhaps a valid explanation for the results or you did you just decide to jump straight to the "it's because he's black" theory without thinking that maybe there was another explanation?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:16 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
Worldchampion wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Worldchampion wrote:
Quote:

In summary, I think Lewis (and to a lesser extent Max) are held to a standard where simply winning isn't enough. For good or ill, people need more than that to be impressed.


As a Lewis fan, I reckon he could start from the back, transform his car to a unicorn fly over each of the competitors taking rainbow coloured dumps in em and win yet still wouldn’t get one of the “drivers of the day”

But that’s how it’s been since he was a lil champ in a kart. A minority, an outsider without a Schumacher surname. Just talent vs the money, the establishment and so-called “pedigree”.

In the end the only driver of the day scale that matters in history is the one who stands atop the podium, and the records have already written a role model I’ll be prodding my kids to look at.


So the insinuation is that people who vote in the F1 DoD poll are racist ?


Hey you said it. But Surly Nobody who follows F1 could be racist. That’s just preposterous.


I think whats preposterous is the inference that there's an army of racist F1 fans who regularly launch a coordinated post race attack on Hamilton in the DoD poll.

You've not maybe entertained the thought that he rarely wins the DoD poll because he's in the exclusive position of being considered the best driver in the field in what's been widely regarded as the best car in the field so as a result he's expected to deliver the results he delivers?

Did you consider that as perhaps a valid explanation for the results or you did you just decide to jump straight to the "it's because he's black" theory without thinking that maybe there was another explanation?


Sex, wealth, race, nationality. We all know how much of a level playing field motor racing traditionally has been, a bastion of diversity.

Im just pointing out Trailblazers like one L Hamilton (and Hasem el Masri) upsetting the status quo are sure to ruffle feathers in certain quarters and have to achieve more for same recognition. But thats the nature of “glass ceilings” and 6 championships or so, later not to worry he’ll retire eventually, people won’t remember DOTD popularity contests and it’s still ok to be w...... :nod:


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:11 pm 
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I have split this from the original thread:
Lewis Hamilton 6xWDC - Congratulations are in order

Please go there if that's the discussion you are looking for. For discussing the issue regarding Hamilton never being voted Driver of the Day please post in this thread.

Also - the issue of racism is a very delicate and important one and unquestionably has affected Hamilton throughout his career, from his early days karting through to issues with fans at certain events. However, that being said, it's highly unlikely that it's had a significant influence over the official Driver of the Day poll, as it would require substantial co-ordinated tactical voting to be organised. More pertinantly, it is somewhat trivialising the important issue of racism in sport to blame such an unimportant, gimmick of the sport on it.

Tackling racism is important, and it is certainly an issue that can be discussed on this forum. But it should be in its own thread and discussed as the focus of the thread rather than bringing into another discussion (that was already off topic when it started) as that is not going to result in a productive or sensitive conversation on the matter.


As per the forum rules please take any comments or disputes to the official feedback thread - do not respond with them in this thread.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:35 am 
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Looking back, I think that Monaco, Hungary and Silverstone should definitely have been Lewis DOTD.

I suppose you could give him Spain and China by default too, although those races were too unremarkable for me to care.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:46 am 
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The official driver of the day voting has always been a joke. It's mostly dependent on which driver's fans are the most internet savvy. Overall I think that this forum has done a nice job on the voting most of the time but I do notice that most drivers get DotD if they have a drive that would be considered par for the course if it were Hamilton (and not earn the DotD). Quite likely a lot of that is simply down to the sheer amount of success that he's had and how it has raised the bar. I think this forum is one of the better places I've seen online when it comes to the voting though.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:34 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
The official driver of the day voting has always been a joke. It's mostly dependent on which driver's fans are the most internet savvy. Overall I think that this forum has done a nice job on the voting most of the time but I do notice that most drivers get DotD if they have a drive that would be considered par for the course if it were Hamilton (and not earn the DotD). Quite likely a lot of that is simply down to the sheer amount of success that he's had and how it has raised the bar. I think this forum is one of the better places I've seen online when it comes to the voting though.

And you know that, how?


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