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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:49 pm 
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Since the start of the season. I've noticed a consistency in bad drivers,

Those being

Gasly
Magnussun
Grosjean
Kubica.


All these drivers have been beaten quite a bit so far, by team mates doing very well indeed!....


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:56 pm 
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Gasly isn't a bad driver, but he is doing an awful job relative to his team mate. On borrowed time already!

Kubica is nowhere near good enough any more, and the fact the cars a dog is just underlining that.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:07 pm 
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Badgeronimous wrote:
Gasly isn't a bad driver, but he is doing an awful job relative to his team mate. On borrowed time already!

Kubica is nowhere near good enough any more, and the fact the cars a dog is just underlining that.


Gasly is miles away from Verstappen... At least Bottas is close to Hamilton's pace. As with Vettel and Charles.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:24 pm 
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Noni wrote:
Badgeronimous wrote:
Gasly isn't a bad driver, but he is doing an awful job relative to his team mate. On borrowed time already!

Kubica is nowhere near good enough any more, and the fact the cars a dog is just underlining that.


Gasly is miles away from Verstappen... At least Bottas is close to Hamilton's pace. As with Vettel and Charles.


I think going into these teams you need to be at least close. Many are say Bottas probably isn't good enough, and he is at least fairly close. Gasly is making that Red Bull look very much midfield.

Gasly is definitely doing a bit of a Kovalainen impression this year, and even then... he at least won a race.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:00 am 
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KUBICA!!!

:nod:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:10 am 
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Badgeronimous wrote:
Noni wrote:
Badgeronimous wrote:
Gasly isn't a bad driver, but he is doing an awful job relative to his team mate. On borrowed time already!

Kubica is nowhere near good enough any more, and the fact the cars a dog is just underlining that.


Gasly is miles away from Verstappen... At least Bottas is close to Hamilton's pace. As with Vettel and Charles.


I think going into these teams you need to be at least close. Many are say Bottas probably isn't good enough, and he is at least fairly close. Gasly is making that Red Bull look very much midfield.

Gasly is definitely doing a bit of a Kovalainen impression this year, and even then... he at least won a race.

Kovaleinen? This is more like Vandoorne. Gasly's teammate is top shelf but you can't be that far behind. The thing is that Gasly seems lost. He has no idea where to find pace. With Vandoorne, you got the feeling that he was quite unlucky but Gasly is just nowhere. You can't even defend him.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:13 am 
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Noni wrote:
Magnussun
Grosjean

All these drivers have been beaten quite a bit so far, by team mates doing very well indeed!....

Emphasis mine, but although I agree both Haas drivers have underperformed at times, it's difficult to say they're being beaten by teammates who are doing any better.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:54 am 
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Tufty wrote:
Noni wrote:
Magnussun
Grosjean

All these drivers have been beaten quite a bit so far, by team mates doing very well indeed!....

Emphasis mine, but although I agree both Haas drivers have underperformed at times, it's difficult to say they're being beaten by teammates who are doing any better.

Yeah, I was going to point that out myself! 8)

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:37 am 
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While I admire his spirit, Kubica has too much going against him right now to compete with the young guys. His age, his injury and his car...


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:23 am 
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Kubica
Gasly
Giovinazzi


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:15 am 
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Sorry to say, he has been on for a very bad ride in his life, but it's Kubica. Gasly is also there, as well as Giovinazzi.

I will not place Magnussen there at all, the guy was 5th in the qualy and occasionally lands a solid drive when the car allows. Don't be fooled by the present HAAS problems with the tyres which they apparently can not solve.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:17 am 
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Sadly I never thought I'd write this name, but it is Robert Kubica at the moment.

At least the others are young and have the chance to improve. He doesn't have this luxury in my mind


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:57 am 
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I wouldn't say Kubica has disappointed me the most, because I expected him to struggle regardless of Williams' form. If he was running Russell close then we can all say it's the car and not the driver, but he's been absolutely destroyed by George.

Vettel is an worth a mention. Expected to fight for the title but instead only bagging 4 podiums in 9 races and no wins.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:00 am 
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MistaVega23 wrote:
I wouldn't say Kubica has disappointed me the most, because I expected him to struggle regardless of Williams' form. If he was running Russell close then we can all say it's the car and not the driver, but he's been absolutely destroyed by George.

Vettel is an worth a mention. Expected to fight for the title but instead only bagging 4 podiums in 9 races and no wins.


That's a good shout, but for maybe not for worst driver. I'd say for most disappointing maybe


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:27 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
I wouldn't say Kubica has disappointed me the most, because I expected him to struggle regardless of Williams' form. If he was running Russell close then we can all say it's the car and not the driver, but he's been absolutely destroyed by George.

Vettel is an worth a mention. Expected to fight for the title but instead only bagging 4 podiums in 9 races and no wins.


That's a good shout, but for maybe not for worst driver. I'd say for most disappointing maybe

Don't get me wrong, Ferrari has a lot to do with it but I'd expect him to at least have the measure of the Red Bulls and, Canada aside, challenge Lewis on a consistent basis.

If Charles starts reeling him in before the summer break then expect rumours of his future to go into overdrive.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:31 am 
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Noni wrote:
Since the start of the season. I've noticed a consistency in bad drivers,

Those being

Gasly
Magnussun
Grosjean
Kubica.


All these drivers have been beaten quite a bit so far, by team mates doing very well indeed!....

It's been pointed out that Grosjean and Magnussen are teammates also I'm sure you're overlooking that it's the car itself that's bad in the races more so than the drivers themselves, although in respect to Grosjean he's 33 now and I don't believe many would rate him as a top 10 driver, I think he's had his time in F1.

I would put the worse drivers relative to their teammates as being:-

1. Pierre Gasly
2. Robert Kubica
3. Lance Stroll

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:04 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Noni wrote:
Since the start of the season. I've noticed a consistency in bad drivers,

Those being

Gasly
Magnussun
Grosjean
Kubica.


All these drivers have been beaten quite a bit so far, by team mates doing very well indeed!....

It's been pointed out that Grosjean and Magnussen are teammates also I'm sure you're overlooking that it's the car itself that's bad in the races more so than the drivers themselves, although in respect to Grosjean he's 33 now and I don't believe many would rate him as a top 10 driver, I think he's had his time in F1.

I would put the worse drivers relative to their teammates as being:-

1. Pierre Gasly
2. Robert Kubica
3. Lance Stroll


I agree on the point with Grosjean and Magnussen in the same car. The reason, I chose them was because both drivers have made serious blunders so far.

Hope Ocon would come back soon!. ;)


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:11 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Sadly I never thought I'd write this name, but it is Robert Kubica at the moment.

At least the others are young and have the chance to improve. He doesn't have this luxury in my mind
ce

To be honest, I never wanted him to come back. Despite Williams being the worst car on the grid at the moment, Kubica has never come close to Georges pace. George is a better driver then Lando Norris from F3 days. It's a shame, he's in the worst car at the present.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:11 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Noni wrote:
Since the start of the season. I've noticed a consistency in bad drivers,

Those being

Gasly
Magnussun
Grosjean
Kubica.


All these drivers have been beaten quite a bit so far, by team mates doing very well indeed!....

It's been pointed out that Grosjean and Magnussen are teammates also I'm sure you're overlooking that it's the car itself that's bad in the races more so than the drivers themselves, although in respect to Grosjean he's 33 now and I don't believe many would rate him as a top 10 driver, I think he's had his time in F1.

I would put the worse drivers relative to their teammates as being:-

1. Pierre Gasly
2. Robert Kubica
3. Lance Stroll


I'd second this. Stroll's qualifying has been appalling.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:15 pm 
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Noni wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Sadly I never thought I'd write this name, but it is Robert Kubica at the moment.

At least the others are young and have the chance to improve. He doesn't have this luxury in my mind
ce

To be honest, I never wanted him to come back. Despite Williams being the worst car on the grid at the moment, Kubica has never come close to Georges pace. George is a better driver then Lando Norris from F3 days. It's a shame, he's in the worst car at the present.

Russell will be alright as long as he keeps beating his teammates who ever they may be.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:19 pm 
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Noni wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Sadly I never thought I'd write this name, but it is Robert Kubica at the moment.

At least the others are young and have the chance to improve. He doesn't have this luxury in my mind
ce

To be honest, I never wanted him to come back. Despite Williams being the worst car on the grid at the moment, Kubica has never come close to Georges pace. George is a better driver then Lando Norris from F3 days. It's a shame, he's in the worst car at the present.


Russell and Norris never raced together in F3? I would say Norris had the slightly better junior career.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:20 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Noni wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Sadly I never thought I'd write this name, but it is Robert Kubica at the moment.

At least the others are young and have the chance to improve. He doesn't have this luxury in my mind
ce

To be honest, I never wanted him to come back. Despite Williams being the worst car on the grid at the moment, Kubica has never come close to Georges pace. George is a better driver then Lando Norris from F3 days. It's a shame, he's in the worst car at the present.


Russell and Norris never raced together in F3? I would say Norris had the slightly better junior career.

I would say that's more of a typo, Russell beat Norris convincingly in F2.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:23 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Noni wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Sadly I never thought I'd write this name, but it is Robert Kubica at the moment.

At least the others are young and have the chance to improve. He doesn't have this luxury in my mind
ce

To be honest, I never wanted him to come back. Despite Williams being the worst car on the grid at the moment, Kubica has never come close to Georges pace. George is a better driver then Lando Norris from F3 days. It's a shame, he's in the worst car at the present.


Russell and Norris never raced together in F3? I would say Norris had the slightly better junior career.

I would say that's more of a typo, Russell beat Norris convincingly in F2.


True. Russell did have more experience though and had knowledge of a lot of the circuit's and being in the paddock from GP3. Norris was taking the bigger jump.

All things considered I was equally impressed with both their seasons in 2018.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:20 pm 
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I see some people mentioning Vettel. The guy has won in Canada, only to be stripped of a victory by the bastewards. More often than not, he seems to be the faster guy compared to Leclerc. He was even gaining on him in Austria.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:35 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
I see some people mentioning Vettel. The guy has won in Canada, only to be stripped of a victory by the bastewards. More often than not, he seems to be the faster guy compared to Leclerc. He was even gaining on him in Austria.


One person.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:17 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Noni wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Sadly I never thought I'd write this name, but it is Robert Kubica at the moment.

At least the others are young and have the chance to improve. He doesn't have this luxury in my mind
ce

To be honest, I never wanted him to come back. Despite Williams being the worst car on the grid at the moment, Kubica has never come close to Georges pace. George is a better driver then Lando Norris from F3 days. It's a shame, he's in the worst car at the present.


Russell and Norris never raced together in F3? I would say Norris had the slightly better junior career.

I would say that's more of a typo, Russell beat Norris convincingly in F2.


True. Russell did have more experience though and had knowledge of a lot of the circuit's and being in the paddock from GP3. Norris was taking the bigger jump.

All things considered I was equally impressed with both their seasons in 2018.

Yes Russell had more experience going into F2 than Norris, Norris blazed through the junior ranks title after title in his rookie seasons and got into F2 early whilst Russell was more seasoned.

However for me I was more impressed by Russell, I thought he was outstanding, Norris actually started quite strongly winning on his debut but that was his only win and he did kind of stagnate a bit which questioned the reasoning behind him moving up to F1 feeling it was a year too soon for him.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:19 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
I see some people mentioning Vettel. The guy has won in Canada, only to be stripped of a victory by the bastewards. More often than not, he seems to be the faster guy compared to Leclerc. He was even gaining on him in Austria.

He was gaining towards the end because he was on both softer and fresher tyres.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:56 pm 
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Kubica


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:02 pm 
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Noni wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Noni wrote:
Since the start of the season. I've noticed a consistency in bad drivers,

Those being

Gasly
Magnussun
Grosjean
Kubica.


All these drivers have been beaten quite a bit so far, by team mates doing very well indeed!....

It's been pointed out that Grosjean and Magnussen are teammates also I'm sure you're overlooking that it's the car itself that's bad in the races more so than the drivers themselves, although in respect to Grosjean he's 33 now and I don't believe many would rate him as a top 10 driver, I think he's had his time in F1.

I would put the worse drivers relative to their teammates as being:-

1. Pierre Gasly
2. Robert Kubica
3. Lance Stroll


I agree on the point with Grosjean and Magnussen in the same car. The reason, I chose them was because both drivers have made serious blunders so far.

Hope Ocon would come back soon!. ;)

I do wonder what serious mistakes grosjean has made this year. Magnussen had had moe of a chance to shine because of much less bad luck. But he's also messed up way more than Grosjean has. with himself to blame anyway.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:19 pm 
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A lot of people knocking Kubica. Whilst I'm not going to claim he's doing a great job, there are rumours that he is not being provided with the same equipment as Russell, and if this is the case it's hard to make an entirely fair assessment. Plus Russell is an outstanding talent, and I reckon he would be beating the majority of the drivers on the grid if paired within the same team.

I think it's harsh to be mentioning the Haas drivers when it's clear that the team have not got the hang of the tyres this year. When both drivers are struggling equally in the races then I would be pointing fingers at the car rather than the drivers.

So for my votes, I'll give Kubica the benefit of the doubt and go for Gasly, Stroll and Giovinazzi. All getting soundly beaten by their team mates without any extenuating circumstances.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:32 pm 
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j man wrote:
A lot of people knocking Kubica. Whilst I'm not going to claim he's doing a great job, there are rumours that he is not being provided with the same equipment as Russell, and if this is the case it's hard to make an entirely fair assessment. Plus Russell is an outstanding talent, and I reckon he would be beating the majority of the drivers on the grid if paired within the same team.

I think it's harsh to be mentioning the Haas drivers when it's clear that the team have not got the hang of the tyres this year. When both drivers are struggling equally in the races then I would be pointing fingers at the car rather than the drivers.

So for my votes, I'll give Kubica the benefit of the doubt and go for Gasly, Stroll and Giovinazzi. All getting soundly beaten by their team mates without any extenuating circumstances.

I would be guessing that most of the Kubica claims come from his Polish supporters?

It started with the chassis were not the same so then they swapped the chassis over, the latest I believe is that Russell has a superior Mercedes engine?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:07 pm 
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Kubica and Gasly. Gio also unimpressive.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:27 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
j man wrote:
A lot of people knocking Kubica. Whilst I'm not going to claim he's doing a great job, there are rumours that he is not being provided with the same equipment as Russell, and if this is the case it's hard to make an entirely fair assessment. Plus Russell is an outstanding talent, and I reckon he would be beating the majority of the drivers on the grid if paired within the same team.

I think it's harsh to be mentioning the Haas drivers when it's clear that the team have not got the hang of the tyres this year. When both drivers are struggling equally in the races then I would be pointing fingers at the car rather than the drivers.

So for my votes, I'll give Kubica the benefit of the doubt and go for Gasly, Stroll and Giovinazzi. All getting soundly beaten by their team mates without any extenuating circumstances.

I would be guessing that most of the Kubica claims come from his Polish supporters?

It started with the chassis were not the same so then they swapped the chassis over, the latest I believe is that Russell has a superior Mercedes engine?


Yeah, we can't judge them fairly yet. ;)


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:21 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
I see some people mentioning Vettel. The guy has won in Canada, only to be stripped of a victory by the bastewards. More often than not, he seems to be the faster guy compared to Leclerc. He was even gaining on him in Austria.


I like Vettel... Would not class him as a bad driver, though yes, he does make mistakes!.... :lol: Top 10 in Best drivers IMO ;)


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:31 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
j man wrote:
A lot of people knocking Kubica. Whilst I'm not going to claim he's doing a great job, there are rumours that he is not being provided with the same equipment as Russell, and if this is the case it's hard to make an entirely fair assessment. Plus Russell is an outstanding talent, and I reckon he would be beating the majority of the drivers on the grid if paired within the same team.

I think it's harsh to be mentioning the Haas drivers when it's clear that the team have not got the hang of the tyres this year. When both drivers are struggling equally in the races then I would be pointing fingers at the car rather than the drivers.

So for my votes, I'll give Kubica the benefit of the doubt and go for Gasly, Stroll and Giovinazzi. All getting soundly beaten by their team mates without any extenuating circumstances.

I would be guessing that most of the Kubica claims come from his Polish supporters?

It started with the chassis were not the same so then they swapped the chassis over, the latest I believe is that Russell has a superior Mercedes engine?


Yeah, we can't judge them fairly yet. ;)

Well if they were able to swap the engines then no doubt it would be something else? ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:39 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
j man wrote:
A lot of people knocking Kubica. Whilst I'm not going to claim he's doing a great job, there are rumours that he is not being provided with the same equipment as Russell, and if this is the case it's hard to make an entirely fair assessment. Plus Russell is an outstanding talent, and I reckon he would be beating the majority of the drivers on the grid if paired within the same team.

I think it's harsh to be mentioning the Haas drivers when it's clear that the team have not got the hang of the tyres this year. When both drivers are struggling equally in the races then I would be pointing fingers at the car rather than the drivers.

So for my votes, I'll give Kubica the benefit of the doubt and go for Gasly, Stroll and Giovinazzi. All getting soundly beaten by their team mates without any extenuating circumstances.

I would be guessing that most of the Kubica claims come from his Polish supporters?

It started with the chassis were not the same so then they swapped the chassis over, the latest I believe is that Russell has a superior Mercedes engine?

Yeah but... I like Kubica!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:47 pm 
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j man wrote:
pokerman wrote:
j man wrote:
A lot of people knocking Kubica. Whilst I'm not going to claim he's doing a great job, there are rumours that he is not being provided with the same equipment as Russell, and if this is the case it's hard to make an entirely fair assessment. Plus Russell is an outstanding talent, and I reckon he would be beating the majority of the drivers on the grid if paired within the same team.

I think it's harsh to be mentioning the Haas drivers when it's clear that the team have not got the hang of the tyres this year. When both drivers are struggling equally in the races then I would be pointing fingers at the car rather than the drivers.

So for my votes, I'll give Kubica the benefit of the doubt and go for Gasly, Stroll and Giovinazzi. All getting soundly beaten by their team mates without any extenuating circumstances.

I would be guessing that most of the Kubica claims come from his Polish supporters?

It started with the chassis were not the same so then they swapped the chassis over, the latest I believe is that Russell has a superior Mercedes engine?

Yeah but... I like Kubica!

Yeah I also wanted him to do well, hoped he would be like he was before, I think some people are living in denial?

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 26th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:13 pm 
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The worst driver of the season has clearly been either Kubica or Gasly, IMO. Both are woefully far off their teammates in pure pace.

At least Kubica seems to still possess some racecraft, however.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:22 pm 
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Mort Canard wrote:
KUBICA!!!

:nod:

I think given how terrible the Williams is compared to everyone else, and with how good the Red Bull is by comparison, Gasly is doing even worse than Kubica.

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HAMILTON :: VERSTAPPEN :: LECLERC :: BOTTAS :: VETTEL :: SAINZ :: NORRIS
KVYAT :: RAIKKONEN :: RUSSEL :: ALBON :: RICCIARDO :: HULKENBURG :: PEREZ
STROLL :: MAGNUSSEN :: GROSJEAN :: GASLY :: GIOVANAZZI :: KUBICA


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:28 am 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
KUBICA!!!

:nod:

I think given how terrible the Williams is compared to everyone else, and with how good the Red Bull is by comparison, Gasly is doing even worse than Kubica.


As of Canada George Russell had out performed Kubica in every practice, qualifying, or race session. I have not checked since then but I don't remember a session where both were running and Robert was faster than George. Possibly the same could be said for the superiority of Max over Pierre. I don't know.

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