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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:51 pm 
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This is the first time I've ever seen these published if anyone is interested:

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/03/23/2 ... nscript-2/


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:37 pm 
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That was well worth posting. Maybe a thread should be created after each race with a link to this.

Reading what Verstappen said through the race looks a bit unreasonable. If he thinks he was faster than his team make then it should have been up to him to go past instead of fussing, swearing and shouting.

I think it was in Singapore last year when Verstappen was actually ordered to let Sainz through and he simply refused even after being asked several times. Why should Sainz make it easy for him when Sainz wasn't even instructed to let him pass?


This time Sainz wasn't instructed to let Verstappen by and yet Verstappen creates such a fuss. Some people seem to like him for this but I prefer drivers that stay more calm on the radio.



This page is also great to see a load of things that I didn't hear them say during the race. Well worth posting.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:48 pm 
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Hopefully after this race the talk about how 'mature' Verstappen is will take a rest. Until recently I worked with teenagers extensively, and I would have been very disappointed in one who showed his level of supposed maturity.

As for the rest of the transcript, F1Fanatic has been publishing those for years; this is one of the shortest I've read, since with every new radio ban the transcripts get smaller and smaller. An interesting game would be to try and evaluate every message by the new rules and figure out how many really satisfy one of those criteria.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:58 am 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
That was well worth posting. Maybe a thread should be created after each race with a link to this.

Reading what Verstappen said through the race looks a bit unreasonable. If he thinks he was faster than his team make then it should have been up to him to go past instead of fussing, swearing and shouting.

I think it was in Singapore last year when Verstappen was actually ordered to let Sainz through and he simply refused even after being asked several times. Why should Sainz make it easy for him when Sainz wasn't even instructed to let him pass?


This time Sainz wasn't instructed to let Verstappen by and yet Verstappen creates such a fuss. Some people seem to like him for this but I prefer drivers that stay more calm on the radio.



This page is also great to see a load of things that I didn't hear them say during the race. Well worth posting.

Regarding Verstappen I don't understand why the team allowed Sainz to undercut him especially as Verstappen had been asking to pit for several laps, it seemed to me that they left the drivers out too long and that's why after looking good for the top 6 they only finished 9th and 10th.

I can understand Verstappen's frustration at both the poor strategy and the fact he ended up behind his slower teammate.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:11 am 
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pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
That was well worth posting. Maybe a thread should be created after each race with a link to this.

Reading what Verstappen said through the race looks a bit unreasonable. If he thinks he was faster than his team make then it should have been up to him to go past instead of fussing, swearing and shouting.

I think it was in Singapore last year when Verstappen was actually ordered to let Sainz through and he simply refused even after being asked several times. Why should Sainz make it easy for him when Sainz wasn't even instructed to let him pass?


This time Sainz wasn't instructed to let Verstappen by and yet Verstappen creates such a fuss. Some people seem to like him for this but I prefer drivers that stay more calm on the radio.



This page is also great to see a load of things that I didn't hear them say during the race. Well worth posting.

Regarding Verstappen I don't understand why the team allowed Sainz to undercut him especially as Verstappen had been asking to pit for several laps, it seemed to me that they left the drivers out too long and that's why after looking good for the top 6 they only finished 9th and 10th.

I can understand Verstappen's frustration at both the poor strategy and the fact he ended up behind his slower teammate.


They didn't. They lost about 4 seconds getting a wheel off at his stop. That's what dropped him behind Sainz


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:18 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
That was well worth posting. Maybe a thread should be created after each race with a link to this.

Reading what Verstappen said through the race looks a bit unreasonable. If he thinks he was faster than his team make then it should have been up to him to go past instead of fussing, swearing and shouting.

I think it was in Singapore last year when Verstappen was actually ordered to let Sainz through and he simply refused even after being asked several times. Why should Sainz make it easy for him when Sainz wasn't even instructed to let him pass?


This time Sainz wasn't instructed to let Verstappen by and yet Verstappen creates such a fuss. Some people seem to like him for this but I prefer drivers that stay more calm on the radio.



This page is also great to see a load of things that I didn't hear them say during the race. Well worth posting.

Regarding Verstappen I don't understand why the team allowed Sainz to undercut him especially as Verstappen had been asking to pit for several laps, it seemed to me that they left the drivers out too long and that's why after looking good for the top 6 they only finished 9th and 10th.

I can understand Verstappen's frustration at both the poor strategy and the fact he ended up behind his slower teammate.


They didn't. They lost about 4 seconds getting a wheel off at his stop. That's what dropped him behind Sainz

Yeah I checked you are right, they were not being unfair to Verstappen, but you can still understand the frustration for Verstapppen, stuck behind his teammate in 11th place I believe, a race were both cars looked good for a top 6?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:29 am 
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What was Button referring to in his last message?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:19 am 
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Covalent wrote:
What was Button referring to in his last message?

Pitting just before the red flag, Force India made the same mistake.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:44 am 
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Regarding Hamilton, the alarm that was constantly on, was it saying "Too close to terrain" considering the way he was flying or posting fast laps to close the gap to the front?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:48 am 
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specdecible wrote:
Covalent wrote:
What was Button referring to in his last message?

Pitting just before the red flag, Force India made the same mistake.

Ah cheers.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:09 am 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Reading what Verstappen said through the race looks a bit unreasonable. If he thinks he was faster than his team make then it should have been up to him to go past instead of fussing, swearing and shouting.


Whatever one makes of his messages, I don't really care too much. But can this rhetoric of "if you are faster, then pass" please be dropped? If Hamilton can't pass a Toro Rosso in a highly superior Mercedes, how could you then reasonably expect a driver to pass another in the same car on the same tyres?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:35 am 
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mds wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Reading what Verstappen said through the race looks a bit unreasonable. If he thinks he was faster than his team make then it should have been up to him to go past instead of fussing, swearing and shouting.


Whatever one makes of his messages, I don't really care too much. But can this rhetoric of "if you are faster, then pass" please be dropped? If Hamilton can't pass a Toro Rosso in a highly superior Mercedes, how could you then reasonably expect a driver to pass another in the same car on the same tyres?

:thumbup:

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:08 am 
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mds wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Reading what Verstappen said through the race looks a bit unreasonable. If he thinks he was faster than his team make then it should have been up to him to go past instead of fussing, swearing and shouting.

Whatever one makes of his messages, I don't really care too much. But can this rhetoric of "if you are faster, then pass" please be dropped? If Hamilton can't pass a Toro Rosso in a highly superior Mercedes, how could you then reasonably expect a driver to pass another in the same car on the same tyres?

Well, if some of the absurd hyperbole we heard from commentators last year about how Verstappen doesn't seem to be affected by dirty air the same as other drivers was true, he should have been able to do something...

That aside, Verstappen asked to be allowed to attack Sainz and he was allowed; after he failed he started asking them to get Sainz out of the way. Clearly, he thought he would be able to pass, so at least one person obviously didn't learn the lesson of the Mercedes being unable to pass him earlier.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:08 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
That was well worth posting. Maybe a thread should be created after each race with a link to this.

Reading what Verstappen said through the race looks a bit unreasonable. If he thinks he was faster than his team make then it should have been up to him to go past instead of fussing, swearing and shouting.

I think it was in Singapore last year when Verstappen was actually ordered to let Sainz through and he simply refused even after being asked several times. Why should Sainz make it easy for him when Sainz wasn't even instructed to let him pass?


This time Sainz wasn't instructed to let Verstappen by and yet Verstappen creates such a fuss. Some people seem to like him for this but I prefer drivers that stay more calm on the radio.



This page is also great to see a load of things that I didn't hear them say during the race. Well worth posting.

Regarding Verstappen I don't understand why the team allowed Sainz to undercut him especially as Verstappen had been asking to pit for several laps, it seemed to me that they left the drivers out too long and that's why after looking good for the top 6 they only finished 9th and 10th.

I can understand Verstappen's frustration at both the poor strategy and the fact he ended up behind his slower teammate.


They didn't. They lost about 4 seconds getting a wheel off at his stop. That's what dropped him behind Sainz


No they didnt do that, instead Verstappen came in when he wasn't due to stop but because his team mate had stopped, hence the team wasn't ready for him. His stop was ok but he lost 5 secs whilst they got his tyre ready!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:10 am 
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Exediron wrote:
mds wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Reading what Verstappen said through the race looks a bit unreasonable. If he thinks he was faster than his team make then it should have been up to him to go past instead of fussing, swearing and shouting.

Whatever one makes of his messages, I don't really care too much. But can this rhetoric of "if you are faster, then pass" please be dropped? If Hamilton can't pass a Toro Rosso in a highly superior Mercedes, how could you then reasonably expect a driver to pass another in the same car on the same tyres?

Well, if some of the absurd hyperbole we heard from commentators last year about how Verstappen doesn't seem to be affected by dirty air the same as other drivers was true, he should have been able to do something...

That aside, Verstappen asked to be allowed to attack Sainz and he was allowed; after he failed he started asking them to get Sainz out of the way. Clearly, he thought he would be able to pass, so at least one person obviously didn't learn the lesson of the Mercedes being unable to pass him earlier.


Maybe he thought he was faster than the Merc that was why he could not pass him?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:53 am 
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Exediron wrote:
That aside, Verstappen asked to be allowed to attack Sainz and he was allowed; after he failed he started asking them to get Sainz out of the way. Clearly, he thought he would be able to pass, so at least one person obviously didn't learn the lesson of the Mercedes being unable to pass him earlier.


Actually I think Verstappen was talking about trying to get past Palmer in the first place, and so implicitly asking for Sainz to move aside. The messages don't make sense if he was talking about trying to get past Sainz at first:

Quote:
38 From Max Verstappen Can I try to get past?
38 To Max Verstappen Yes.
39 From Max Verstappen Let me try because this takes too long.
39 To Max Verstappen Let’s do it.
39 From Max Verstappen Verstappen was stuck behind Sainz who had Palmer in front of him.
Come on, we have to do something.


Sure enough, once Sainz got past Palmer Verstappen almost immediately passed as well. He had a point - but I would agree he could have worded it differently ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:07 am 
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mds wrote:
Actually I think Verstappen was talking about trying to get past Palmer in the first place, and so implicitly asking for Sainz to move aside. The messages don't make sense if he was talking about trying to get past Sainz at first:

Fair enough - I didn't interpret it that way myself, but it makes more sense and if so it does make him seem a bit more reasonable.

mds wrote:
Sure enough, once Sainz got past Palmer Verstappen almost immediately passed as well. He had a point - but I would agree he could have worded it differently ;)

He got past Palmer immediately because Palmer lost momentum on the straight after going off-line while being overtaken - we see the same thing happen all the time, when one car gets past and another also instantly pulls off a move. Not saying he necessarily couldn't have done it himself, but the way in which he overtook the Renault was 100% thanks to his teammate already having pulled off a move.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:21 am 
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Verstappen created his own demise. While I give him right that he is marginally faster than Sainz, he lost it than when he entered the pit on his own, without being called, loosing some 5-6 seconds in the process. Than, he obviously hit his teammate in a very similar manner like Rosberg hitHamilton in Belgium 2014, except that the tyre of Sainz lasted. I wonder how it escaped bigger notice in the media or forum.
No one mature will act like he did in this particular race, and I hope that the ToroRosso kindergarten director Franz Tost, will make sure that this does not happen. Else, we are about the see two of them crashing again in the same manner like they did in Australia.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:23 am 
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Covalent wrote:
mds wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Reading what Verstappen said through the race looks a bit unreasonable. If he thinks he was faster than his team make then it should have been up to him to go past instead of fussing, swearing and shouting.


Whatever one makes of his messages, I don't really care too much. But can this rhetoric of "if you are faster, then pass" please be dropped? If Hamilton can't pass a Toro Rosso in a highly superior Mercedes, how could you then reasonably expect a driver to pass another in the same car on the same tyres?

:thumbup:

How about this: If you can not pass someone, than you are not faster, whatever you claim.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:55 am 
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My favourite section:
50 To Sergio Perez Checo it’s time to push now.
51 To Sergio Perez Checo your front brake wear is critical. You will not make it to the end

You can almost hear Perez's thinking... 'Yeah, thanks guys'


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:57 am 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
Covalent wrote:
mds wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Reading what Verstappen said through the race looks a bit unreasonable. If he thinks he was faster than his team make then it should have been up to him to go past instead of fussing, swearing and shouting.


Whatever one makes of his messages, I don't really care too much. But can this rhetoric of "if you are faster, then pass" please be dropped? If Hamilton can't pass a Toro Rosso in a highly superior Mercedes, how could you then reasonably expect a driver to pass another in the same car on the same tyres?

:thumbup:

How about this: If you can not pass someone, than you are not faster, whatever you claim.


You're right, Hamilton was not faster than Verstappen.

:?:

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Last edited by mds on Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:03 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
Verstappen created his own demise. While I give him right that he is marginally faster than Sainz, he lost it than when he entered the pit on his own, without being called, loosing some 5-6 seconds in the process.


Just a question here: where has it been documented that he came in the pit on his own? The crew was there and all but one item was not there - if it was so inadvertent then why where they there in the first place?

Quote:
Than, he obviously hit his teammate in a very similar manner like Rosberg hitHamilton in Belgium 2014, except that the tyre of Sainz lasted. I wonder how it escaped bigger notice in the media or forum.


Sometimes there are mitigating factors in collisions. One just has to look at what happened with Alonso - he wasn't given the blame either.
As for this instance, Sainz didn't have a good corner entry, locked up pretty hard if I'm not mistaken. Not that it wasn't a mistake by Verstappen but that would be a mitigating factor.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:31 pm 
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mds wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Verstappen created his own demise. While I give him right that he is marginally faster than Sainz, he lost it than when he entered the pit on his own, without being called, loosing some 5-6 seconds in the process.


Just a question here: where has it been documented that he came in the pit on his own? The crew was there and all but one item was not there - if it was so inadvertent then why where they there in the first place?[


There is discussion about it in the link for this transcripts, and this being taken as a fact.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:49 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
mds wrote:
Sure enough, once Sainz got past Palmer Verstappen almost immediately passed as well. He had a point - but I would agree he could have worded it differently ;)

He got past Palmer immediately because Palmer lost momentum on the straight after going off-line while being overtaken - we see the same thing happen all the time, when one car gets past and another also instantly pulls off a move. Not saying he necessarily couldn't have done it himself, but the way in which he overtook the Renault was 100% thanks to his teammate already having pulled off a move.


Yup. I think Martin Brundle pointed exactly that out during commentary as David Croft was too busy talking up how Verstappen got straight past Palmer and therefore justified his demands to be let past Sainz. Maybe Verstappen would've got past sooner had he been ahead of Sainz, but there was no doubt in my mind the reason he got through as quickly as he did was because Palmer was compromised on the T1 exit having had Sainz go past.

Gothnak wrote:
My favourite section:
50 To Sergio Perez Checo it’s time to push now.
51 To Sergio Perez Checo your front brake wear is critical. You will not make it to the end

You can almost hear Perez's thinking... 'Yeah, thanks guys'


That bit made me laugh as well.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:50 pm 
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specdecible wrote:
Covalent wrote:
What was Button referring to in his last message?

Pitting just before the red flag, Force India made the same mistake.

Hamilton pitted just before the red flag.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:54 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
That was well worth posting. Maybe a thread should be created after each race with a link to this.

Reading what Verstappen said through the race looks a bit unreasonable. If he thinks he was faster than his team make then it should have been up to him to go past instead of fussing, swearing and shouting.

I think it was in Singapore last year when Verstappen was actually ordered to let Sainz through and he simply refused even after being asked several times. Why should Sainz make it easy for him when Sainz wasn't even instructed to let him pass?


This time Sainz wasn't instructed to let Verstappen by and yet Verstappen creates such a fuss. Some people seem to like him for this but I prefer drivers that stay more calm on the radio.



This page is also great to see a load of things that I didn't hear them say during the race. Well worth posting.

Regarding Verstappen I don't understand why the team allowed Sainz to undercut him especially as Verstappen had been asking to pit for several laps, it seemed to me that they left the drivers out too long and that's why after looking good for the top 6 they only finished 9th and 10th.

I can understand Verstappen's frustration at both the poor strategy and the fact he ended up behind his slower teammate.


They didn't. They lost about 4 seconds getting a wheel off at his stop. That's what dropped him behind Sainz


No they didnt do that, instead Verstappen came in when he wasn't due to stop but because his team mate had stopped, hence the team wasn't ready for him. His stop was ok but he lost 5 secs whilst they got his tyre ready!

Ah yes I forgot that which changes the game again, how long were they prepared to leave Verstappen out and how many laps would it have taken for Sainz to undercut him?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:55 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mds wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Reading what Verstappen said through the race looks a bit unreasonable. If he thinks he was faster than his team make then it should have been up to him to go past instead of fussing, swearing and shouting.

Whatever one makes of his messages, I don't really care too much. But can this rhetoric of "if you are faster, then pass" please be dropped? If Hamilton can't pass a Toro Rosso in a highly superior Mercedes, how could you then reasonably expect a driver to pass another in the same car on the same tyres?

Well, if some of the absurd hyperbole we heard from commentators last year about how Verstappen doesn't seem to be affected by dirty air the same as other drivers was true, he should have been able to do something...

That aside, Verstappen asked to be allowed to attack Sainz and he was allowed; after he failed he started asking them to get Sainz out of the way. Clearly, he thought he would be able to pass, so at least one person obviously didn't learn the lesson of the Mercedes being unable to pass him earlier.


Maybe he thought he was faster than the Merc that was why he could not pass him?

Seriously???

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:57 pm 
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mds wrote:
Exediron wrote:
That aside, Verstappen asked to be allowed to attack Sainz and he was allowed; after he failed he started asking them to get Sainz out of the way. Clearly, he thought he would be able to pass, so at least one person obviously didn't learn the lesson of the Mercedes being unable to pass him earlier.


Actually I think Verstappen was talking about trying to get past Palmer in the first place, and so implicitly asking for Sainz to move aside. The messages don't make sense if he was talking about trying to get past Sainz at first:

Quote:
38 From Max Verstappen Can I try to get past?
38 To Max Verstappen Yes.
39 From Max Verstappen Let me try because this takes too long.
39 To Max Verstappen Let’s do it.
39 From Max Verstappen Verstappen was stuck behind Sainz who had Palmer in front of him.
Come on, we have to do something.


Sure enough, once Sainz got past Palmer Verstappen almost immediately passed as well. He had a point - but I would agree he could have worded it differently ;)

Let's be fair here he passed Palmer straight away because Palmer had been compromised when Sainz passed him.

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2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
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2017: 9th Place

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:14 pm 
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Max acts like a spoilt kid. I'm afraid his father is to him what Rob Lowe was to James Spader in the 1990 film Bad Influence.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:41 pm 
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VDV23 wrote:
Max acts like a spoilt kid. I'm afraid his father is to him what Rob Lowe was to James Spader in the 1990 film Bad Influence.


Sadly to me he sounds like all the world champions from the previous 20 years. The people that complain all the time are the ones who want to do better... Vettel, Hamilton, Raikkonen, Button, Alonso. The ones that tend to stay quieter when things are going wrong are the also rans... Webber, Rosberg, Massa etc...

I do find all the whining annoying, but if you don't complain it probably means you don't care as much which means you probably aren't quite as driven.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:59 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
That was well worth posting. Maybe a thread should be created after each race with a link to this.

Reading what Verstappen said through the race looks a bit unreasonable. If he thinks he was faster than his team make then it should have been up to him to go past instead of fussing, swearing and shouting.

I think it was in Singapore last year when Verstappen was actually ordered to let Sainz through and he simply refused even after being asked several times. Why should Sainz make it easy for him when Sainz wasn't even instructed to let him pass?


This time Sainz wasn't instructed to let Verstappen by and yet Verstappen creates such a fuss. Some people seem to like him for this but I prefer drivers that stay more calm on the radio.



This page is also great to see a load of things that I didn't hear them say during the race. Well worth posting.

Regarding Verstappen I don't understand why the team allowed Sainz to undercut him especially as Verstappen had been asking to pit for several laps, it seemed to me that they left the drivers out too long and that's why after looking good for the top 6 they only finished 9th and 10th.

I can understand Verstappen's frustration at both the poor strategy and the fact he ended up behind his slower teammate.


They didn't. They lost about 4 seconds getting a wheel off at his stop. That's what dropped him behind Sainz

Yeah I checked you are right, they were not being unfair to Verstappen, but you can still understand the frustration for Verstapppen, stuck behind his teammate in 11th place I believe, a race were both cars looked good for a top 6?

Yup. While he could've handled it a better, I don't think it was as bad as some are making it out to be. I think had he been able to get past Sainz he would've swept past several cars ahead and finished higher up. When he was finally close enough to pass Sainz, Sainz locked it up and caused Verstappen to run into him. Verstappen was in good position at that point to set himself up to sweep by both cars ahead.

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THE REST… THERE ARE FAR BETTER DRIVERS THAT SHOULD BE IN FORMULA 1


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:53 pm 
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Any news on what the "alarm" was Lewis wanted to turn off?


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