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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:11 am 
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http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/151 ... -engine-f1

As per Paddy Lowe, Torro Rosso seem to have the least powerful engine, yet they "seem" to be quite high in pecking order!! If thats the case, have teams like Mclaren (my favourite team) not produced a good chassis? They seem to be not able to even fight Torro Rosso (forget Haas who i expected to be atleast behind Mclaren!!) to get up there. Have they not been able to get back to their days of developing a good chassis?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:24 am 
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First off, wait for a race where both McLarens run clean before writing them off as unable to even fight with Toro Rosso.

Secondly, 'least powerful' doesn't mean 'worst'. If the Renault and/or Honda engines are having problems with power delivery (drivability) or energy management, the 2015 Ferrari engine could still be the better engine despite possessing a lower horsepower figure.

And finally, I'm not even sure it's true. Last year Toro Rosso said the Ferrari engine switch would give them 8 tenths over the 2015 Renault; unless Renault have found almost a full second from the engine alone, it shouldn't be faster than the Toro Rosso engine.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:29 am 
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Little bit of marketing also?

"The Renault and the Honda are not so far behind the Ferrari Mercedes, so there is not a lot of difference now between the power units." ; implying that their car is suburb, although I don't think many people believe this.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:10 pm 
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I think we've seen the Torro Rosso hold off the Merc lap after lap - so the power unit isn't bad seeing the 2016 Merc is more powerful than the 2015 Merc that was more powerful than the Ferrari.

Clearly the chassis is ok given the TR could run top 5 laps in a circuit not totally engine powered - and has a speed differential over many others.

In Bahrain it was (https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... rain_2016/)
Power Unit Team Faster Driver Speed (km/h)
Mercedes Williams Valtteri Bottas 335.5
Mercedes Force India Nico Hulkenberg 335.1
Ferrari Haas Romain Grosjean 334.3
Mercedes Manor Pascal Wehrlein 333.2
Mercedes Mercedes Lewis Hamilton 332.1
Ferrari Scuderia Ferrari Kimi Raikkonen 331.3
Ferrari 2015 Toro Rosso Max Verstappen 331.1
Ferrari Sauber Felipe Nasr 329.0
Honda McLaren Jenson Button 328.1
Renault TAG Heuer Red Bull Daniel Ricciardo 327.4
Renault Renault Jolyon Palmer 324.8

Sorry about the formatting - or look up the link - So the Honda and Renault slower - although not by as much as a full power circuit - so those with better chassis who can manage tyres holding their own - but I think the TR is a good chassis and has speed - so some good races to come.

Clearly not the least powerful engine - that's spin


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:14 pm 
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So Ferrari are very competitive with Mercedes and the other teams aren't very far away?

Well then all those stories of Mercedes dominating F1 will now just fade away.

Unless the current domination continues.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:29 pm 
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babararacucudada wrote:
So Ferrari are very competitive with Mercedes and the other teams aren't very far away?

Well then all those stories of Mercedes dominating F1 will now just fade away.

Unless the current domination continues.


Ferrari should be up with Merc by the Spanish GP once they can get their Turbo running fully. They can't at the moment.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:19 pm 
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Toro

That's all for now :-P

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:52 pm 
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Pietkok wrote:
"The Renault and the Honda are not so far behind the Ferrari Mercedes, so there is not a lot of difference now between the power units." ; implying that their car is suburb, although I don't think many people believe this.

Actually, a lot of people believe it. It's more puzzling to me why some people insist on believing Mercedes' advantage is still (or possibly ever) entirely down to the engine. Ferrari hasn't designed a car that was aerodynamically the best on the grid since the Schumacher days, so why - especially after their shocker in 2014 - is everyone so quick to assume if they've almost caught up it means their chassis is better but their engine is still inferior? Isn't it more likely the engine is equal now and the chassis is weaker? Especially since the Ferrari customer teams are now picking off Merc customers at a high rate of speed?

Or maybe it's just easier for certain people to write off Mercedes domination as unfair if they can blame the engine?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:18 pm 
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I doubt that it's the least powerful, or at least the worst overall, engine on the grid. Yes, it's last year's Ferrari engine -- but last year's Ferrari engine was quite a good one, as well as extremely reliable. My guess is that it was very close to the Mercedes engine by the end of the year, if not better in some ways. I wouldn't be surprised if it's at least equal with this year's Renault and Honda engines, considering how down on power they were a year ago.

Pietkok wrote:
"The Renault and the Honda are not so far behind the Ferrari Mercedes, so there is not a lot of difference now between the power units." ; implying that their car is suburb, although I don't think many people believe this.

I think there's a lot of evidence for that, actually (assuming you're talking about Mercedes' car being the superb one). Ferrari have certainly been acting like they know the chassis is the greater difference between them and Merecedes; their fairly radical redesign with a focus on tightening things up this year is almost certainly a reaction to that. If it was just Mercedes' engine that was so much better, one would've expected to see them blasting away on the straights yet struggling comparatively through the corners last year, whereas that's not what happened (although, with Mercedes customer cars, it often was).

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:11 am 
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I agree about Ferrari/Mercedes, but by saying that the Renault and the Honda are not so far behind the Ferrari/Mercedes, Paddy implies that the performance gap between Mercedes and e.g. Red Bull is contributed for a big part to their car. That I don't believe, or Paddy has a different definition of not so far.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:20 am 
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It is probably true, as Lowe said, that this spec engine is down one to two percent from this year's Mercedes spec engine. But that was the same engine that won three races last year. As well, STR have had the luxury of building a chassis that fit the engine even better than last year's Ferrari. And never forget that when Red Bull had their run of dominance, their Renault engine was also not the most powerful, it was the more efficient, smallest and lightest, and ran with a chassis optimized for it.

It is also worth to note that the two young drivers on their team display all the signs of being future champions.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:23 am 
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F1Oz wrote:
I think we've seen the Torro Rosso hold off the Merc lap after lap - so the power unit isn't bad seeing the 2016 Merc is more powerful than the 2015 Merc that was more powerful than the Ferrari.

Clearly the chassis is ok given the TR could run top 5 laps in a circuit not totally engine powered - and has a speed differential over many others.

In Bahrain it was (https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... rain_2016/)
Power Unit Team Faster Driver Speed (km/h)
Mercedes Williams Valtteri Bottas 335.5
Mercedes Force India Nico Hulkenberg 335.1
Ferrari Haas Romain Grosjean 334.3
Mercedes Manor Pascal Wehrlein 333.2
Mercedes Mercedes Lewis Hamilton 332.1
Ferrari Scuderia Ferrari Kimi Raikkonen 331.3
Ferrari 2015 Toro Rosso Max Verstappen 331.1
Ferrari Sauber Felipe Nasr 329.0
Honda McLaren Jenson Button 328.1
Renault TAG Heuer Red Bull Daniel Ricciardo 327.4
Renault Renault Jolyon Palmer 324.8

Sorry about the formatting - or look up the link - So the Honda and Renault slower - although not by as much as a full power circuit - so those with better chassis who can manage tyres holding their own - but I think the TR is a good chassis and has speed - so some good races to come.

Clearly not the least powerful engine - that's spin


Yeah my observations of trap speeds so far coupled with those stats you posted confirm to me that the 15' Ferrari is the third best engine on the grid. The Honda and Renault are clearly not as powerful. Paddy is smoking some good stuff.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:41 am 
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Paddy is obviously talking fairy cakes.

Of course he's going to say this while there is so much political heat around the PU regs situation.


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