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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 6:25 pm 
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Having been on this forum nearly 15 years I have seen people changed there minds on things numerous times and other times stick to there opinion regardless of an avalanche of opposing evidences and have there arguments nullified for them to only come back a few months later making the same points that were previously discredited.

So what were the opinions that you have held and argued on here about but now realise you were wrong. Here are a few of mine.

1) Kimi Raikkonen - I was a massive Kimi fan 2002-2009 and I was convinced he was the best driver on the grid once Schumacher departed. I still defended this opinion through the first 7 races of 2007 when Massa was quicker than him every race. The title in 2007 gave a little life to my opinion but from Spain 2008 onwards I had to concede he was Massa's equal which meant he certainly wasn't the best driver in the field.

2) Jerez 1997 - I had this as 100% Schumachers fault but I was a massive anti-Schumacher at the time. Looking at it, he did turn in but I don't think JV was making that apex and it was a little wild. It's pretty much the same (although not as subtle) as Prosts turn in at the chicane in 1988. I still put the blame on Schumacher, probably 75% his fault but it wasn't the worst of Michaels crimes, far from it, but the one he received the harshest punishment for.

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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 7:47 pm 
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I am surprised to I realise I’m now about 12 years on the forum – how time flies.

I think the biggest U-turn for me in that time is my opinion on Max Mosely.

Obviously the safety improvements he brought are unquestionable but I thought he was a terrible influence on the sporting side of F1, and I vociferously criticised his management style and decision making. Now, looking back at the old interviews (plus how he handled that press intrusion saga), I find myself (almost) in admiration of the man, certainly I admire his intellect and articulation.

I might be perverse but back in the day I actually found the politics and machinations off track quite exciting - more so than today anyway. In fact I wouldn’t mind seeing him back in some form to stir things up a bit.


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 8:14 pm 
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It is my belief to speak out. And yes, there have been times when I was wrong. But if you are afraid to say anything until 100% certain, then your opinion isn't worth listening to.

I defended DRS, also defended the wonky tires. Taken in isolation they didn't seem that bad. But when you look at the big picture and realize that all these gimmicks are proposed to cover up the core issues in Formula One, I can no longer support them.

I expected Alonso to be at Red Bull in 2017. Duck, that was a complete miss.

In life, we try to make the best decision based on the information available at that moment. But if new information that contradicts the old opinion comes up, then one must be man/woman enough to bite the sour apple, change their mind, and be open and transparent with this reversal of opinion.

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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 12:05 am 
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I think it's a natural thing to be changing your mind season on season, or another word would be revising your opinions, F1 tends to represent such an incomplete picture with each piece being revealed season after season.

It's this incompleteness that can leave you to believe that Kimi would be half a second quicker than Massa and that Vettel would thrash Ricciardo.

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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 12:28 am 
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I absolutely hated Hakkinen. With a passion that cannot be explained. I used to pretend to shoot out his tyres when he was racing on TV when he was in the lead of the race. It wasn't because I was a Schumacher fan, it was because I thought he was so smug in the post race press interviews. Not because of this forum, but through watching old content of him, I now realise how funny he was and what a great dry sense of humour he had. I think as a kid I didn't notice it and because back then we didn't have access to so much media outside of what was shown on TV, I didn't get to know him.

One thing I haven't changed my mind on is my opinion of Senna. I do believe he is in the top 3 drivers of all time, but I think his results were much better because of his "move out of the way or we both crash philosophy". I think if he were racing today he would have been penalised out of the sport. Whether or not that is a good/bad thing is another argument. I think when you have guys looking in their mirrors and seeing Senna and thinking, I'm not gonna put up as much of a fight because we'll crash, flatters his results. I do also believe this is part of his genius and part of what made him so great. Everyone else had the opportunity to drive the same way.

Great thread btw. Makes you think


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 12:32 am 
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Lupin wrote:
I absolutely hated Hakkinen. With a passion that cannot be explained. I used to pretend to shoot out his tyres when he was racing on TV when he was in the lead of the race. It wasn't because I was a Schumacher fan, it was because I thought he was so smug in the post race press interviews. Not because of this forum, but through watching old content of him, I now realise how funny he was and what a great dry sense of humour he had. I think as a kid I didn't notice it and because back then we didn't have access to so much media outside of what was shown on TV, I didn't get to know him.

One thing I haven't changed my mind on is my opinion of Senna. I do believe he is in the top 3 drivers of all time, but I think his results were much better because of his "move out of the way or we both crash philosophy". I think if he were racing today he would have been penalised out of the sport. Whether or not that is a good/bad thing is another argument. I think when you have guys looking in their mirrors and seeing Senna and thinking, I'm not gonna put up as much of a fight because we'll crash, flatters his results. I do also believe this is part of his genius and part of what made him so great. Everyone else had the opportunity to drive the same way.

Great thread btw. Makes you think


I don't think Senna's attitude to racing effected his results much. He usually led from the front so it was pretty rare for people to see him in their mirrors. And Suzuka 90 aside most of his racing tactics were small beer compared to what we see from just about every driver these days. They all run each other off the road at corner exits.


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 7:48 am 
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Ok so a few things

I thought Fissichella was the absolute dogs bollocks. I probably rated him as the second best driver in F1 01 and 02. Unfortunately he was exposed by Alonso at Renault. I would have predicted he would be able to go toe to toe with Fernando.

I was quite vocal about Red Bull's decision to hire Ricciardo instead of Vergne. I thought Vergne was the better driver and Ricciardo was very average. I don't think that now.

I really didn't like Hamilton during his first couple of years in F1. Personality wise I now really like him. I think he just spent to much time in his early years pretending to be something he wasn't.

On the reverse side I liked Webber a lot in his early F1 career but went off him when partnered with Vettel at Red Bull.

Until recently I thought Fretzen's 97 season was a weird outlier in his career but having looked more closely I can appreciate just how unlucky he was and how lucky JV was. Making the gap between them seem bigger than it really was.

I liked the "show" tyres when first introduced in 2011 and found I enjoyed the non stop action they created. Now I have gone right of them.


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:11 am 
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I remember when they changed the start procedure for the 1996 season from the red/green to the five red lights. I was up in arms shouting that they've killed the essence of GPs and have dumbed down the sport, whereas now I couldn't imagine a better adrenaline-inducing 5 seconds in my entire life!

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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:13 am 
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The biggest one I think I've u-turned on is Jean Todt. I was a big advocate of his from his time at Purgeot and Ferrari and thought he was doing a decent job as FIA president with everything he has done outside of f1. But looking at how he has allowed f1 to run with teams and FOM having a big say in the rules and almost holding the FIA (the people who are actually supposed to be in charge) to ransom politically is just plain wrong and one of the reasons that the sport isn't what it was.

How he's let the FIA's flagship series tear itself apart is shameful.

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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:15 am 
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1. Gilles Villeneuve - and absolute fan of him turned cold when I realized that his sympathetic figure was hiding his bad affairs with his family. He was extremely harsh with his two children, and the last two years he lived on the boat of his own, never seeing his family during that time, living there in affair with another woman. The divorce was at the door when he died. Also, despite my earlier convictions, I think he would never be a 1982 champion, he still made big driving mistakes in nearly all the races of 1982.

2. Alain Prost - at first I was not a fan of his, he made it look so smooth and effortless, that I found nothing attractive with his driving. Then when I grew up, I realized that he was the biggest genius of F1, along with Lauda.

3. Ayrton Senna - his superior skills made him look like from another planet. The point, which I realized later, that he overused the possibilities of machine was a turn off. His DNF's were largely because he used the car in such a manner that it broke down, like in 1989 (something similar like Gilles Villeneuve in his time 1979). That was not a sign of sensibility. You have to know and count on the limits of machine, which is a part of the sport, and it is a point that separates his with aforementioned Alain Prost. Also his deliberate crash in Prost in 1990, was all but justifiable. Strange that he didn't get a DSQ for that season, since Schumacher's crash in Villeneuve seven years later was not even half that bad. Still, the fastest man in F1 but with lack of sensibility.

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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 11:25 am 
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minchy wrote:
The biggest one I think I've u-turned on is Jean Todt. I was a big advocate of his from his time at Purgeot and Ferrari and thought he was doing a decent job as FIA president with everything he has done outside of f1. But looking at how he has allowed f1 to run with teams and FOM having a big say in the rules and almost holding the FIA (the people who are actually supposed to be in charge) to ransom politically is just plain wrong and one of the reasons that the sport isn't what it was.

How he's let the FIA's flagship series tear itself apart is shameful.


Same here. I used to be a Todt fan, even though I loathe Ferrari. He did a job worthy of enormous respect. Now I cannot fathom how awful a leader he is.


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 11:54 am 
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HS Thompson wrote:
minchy wrote:
The biggest one I think I've u-turned on is Jean Todt. I was a big advocate of his from his time at Purgeot and Ferrari and thought he was doing a decent job as FIA president with everything he has done outside of f1. But looking at how he has allowed f1 to run with teams and FOM having a big say in the rules and almost holding the FIA (the people who are actually supposed to be in charge) to ransom politically is just plain wrong and one of the reasons that the sport isn't what it was.

How he's let the FIA's flagship series tear itself apart is shameful.


Same here. I used to be a Todt fan, even though I loathe Ferrari. He did a job worthy of enormous respect. Now I cannot fathom how awful a leader he is.


1+ for Todt.

A big one for me is Vettel. Being Aussie I hated seeing his finger race after race, beating Webber time and time again. I hated just seeing his smug face.
Today he is pretty funny in some of his interviews and seems like a pretty good guy.

I was actually cheering when he got his first Ferrari win, especially hearing the Italian and German anthems on the podium like we did so many times for Schumacher.

His radio announcement in Russia after the Kvyat incident was brilliant!
Maybe he is easier to like now. Maybe it is because Ricciardo got their better of him in 2014, and has given me hope as he will most likely go on to eclipse Webber's race results.

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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 12:41 pm 
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Randine wrote:
HS Thompson wrote:
minchy wrote:
The biggest one I think I've u-turned on is Jean Todt. I was a big advocate of his from his time at Purgeot and Ferrari and thought he was doing a decent job as FIA president with everything he has done outside of f1. But looking at how he has allowed f1 to run with teams and FOM having a big say in the rules and almost holding the FIA (the people who are actually supposed to be in charge) to ransom politically is just plain wrong and one of the reasons that the sport isn't what it was.

How he's let the FIA's flagship series tear itself apart is shameful.


Same here. I used to be a Todt fan, even though I loathe Ferrari. He did a job worthy of enormous respect. Now I cannot fathom how awful a leader he is.


1+ for Todt.

A big one for me is Vettel. Being Aussie I hated seeing his finger race after race, beating Webber time and time again. I hated just seeing his smug face.
Today he is pretty funny in some of his interviews and seems like a pretty good guy.

I was actually cheering when he got his first Ferrari win, especially hearing the Italian and German anthems on the podium like we did so many times for Schumacher.

His radio announcement in Russia after the Kvyat incident was brilliant!
Maybe he is easier to like now. Maybe it is because Ricciardo got their better of him in 2014, and has given me hope as he will most likely go on to eclipse Webber's race results.


Vettel was always funny, for me at least. See the Kimi imitation he did in the award he got a few years back for example.

+1 for Todt, in hindsight I wish Vatanen had his chance


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 12:46 pm 
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minchy wrote:
The biggest one I think I've u-turned on is Jean Todt. I was a big advocate of his from his time at Purgeot and Ferrari and thought he was doing a decent job as FIA president with everything he has done outside of f1. But looking at how he has allowed f1 to run with teams and FOM having a big say in the rules and almost holding the FIA (the people who are actually supposed to be in charge) to ransom politically is just plain wrong and one of the reasons that the sport isn't what it was.

How he's let the FIA's flagship series tear itself apart is shameful.

Yes I'd agree with this. I couldn't imagine a more lame duck leader for F1. He's all but invisible


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 2:14 pm 
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Having seen Gilles V and Jody racing for Ferrari at Kyalami, and having been a keen folower for many years before, I thought Gilles was too wild and emotional to be great. In the 2000s I changed my mind completely. Analysing GV's times and noting opinions from team-mates and rivals such as Reutemann, Scheckter, Jones, Hunt caused me to realise GV was really fast and competitive. Arnoux would agree too!

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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 2:24 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Randine wrote:
HS Thompson wrote:
minchy wrote:
The biggest one I think I've u-turned on is Jean Todt. I was a big advocate of his from his time at Purgeot and Ferrari and thought he was doing a decent job as FIA president with everything he has done outside of f1. But looking at how he has allowed f1 to run with teams and FOM having a big say in the rules and almost holding the FIA (the people who are actually supposed to be in charge) to ransom politically is just plain wrong and one of the reasons that the sport isn't what it was.

How he's let the FIA's flagship series tear itself apart is shameful.


Same here. I used to be a Todt fan, even though I loathe Ferrari. He did a job worthy of enormous respect. Now I cannot fathom how awful a leader he is.


1+ for Todt.

A big one for me is Vettel. Being Aussie I hated seeing his finger race after race, beating Webber time and time again. I hated just seeing his smug face.
Today he is pretty funny in some of his interviews and seems like a pretty good guy.

I was actually cheering when he got his first Ferrari win, especially hearing the Italian and German anthems on the podium like we did so many times for Schumacher.

His radio announcement in Russia after the Kvyat incident was brilliant!
Maybe he is easier to like now. Maybe it is because Ricciardo got their better of him in 2014, and has given me hope as he will most likely go on to eclipse Webber's race results.


Vettel was always funny, for me at least. See the Kimi imitation he did in the award he got a few years back for example.

+1 for Todt, in hindsight I wish Vatanen had his chance


Agreed, :thumbup: Vettel has always been such a funny guy, great sense of humour. He can mimic any accent, and even put on a Brummie one against Clarkson; he used to crack the Red Bull mechs up imitating Webber's accent. Once when eating a banana he said to onbe of the journos; " See, any monkey can drive a Red Bull".
We need more humour in F1; I miss the dry humour of Hakkinen, like when he was thanked by the post Indy GP tv interviewer: "You're welcome" in an exaggerated American accent, but laughing eyes. Kimi too is funny, but not when he is unhappy with his car or race. Mario Andretti was also very funny in a laconic way: asked what he thought of the new rookies in 1978: "Jeez some of them think the rollbar is there to be used!"

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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 3:05 pm 
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POBRatings wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Randine wrote:
HS Thompson wrote:
minchy wrote:
The biggest one I think I've u-turned on is Jean Todt. I was a big advocate of his from his time at Purgeot and Ferrari and thought he was doing a decent job as FIA president with everything he has done outside of f1. But looking at how he has allowed f1 to run with teams and FOM having a big say in the rules and almost holding the FIA (the people who are actually supposed to be in charge) to ransom politically is just plain wrong and one of the reasons that the sport isn't what it was.

How he's let the FIA's flagship series tear itself apart is shameful.


Same here. I used to be a Todt fan, even though I loathe Ferrari. He did a job worthy of enormous respect. Now I cannot fathom how awful a leader he is.


1+ for Todt.

A big one for me is Vettel. Being Aussie I hated seeing his finger race after race, beating Webber time and time again. I hated just seeing his smug face.
Today he is pretty funny in some of his interviews and seems like a pretty good guy.

I was actually cheering when he got his first Ferrari win, especially hearing the Italian and German anthems on the podium like we did so many times for Schumacher.

His radio announcement in Russia after the Kvyat incident was brilliant!
Maybe he is easier to like now. Maybe it is because Ricciardo got their better of him in 2014, and has given me hope as he will most likely go on to eclipse Webber's race results.


Vettel was always funny, for me at least. See the Kimi imitation he did in the award he got a few years back for example.

+1 for Todt, in hindsight I wish Vatanen had his chance


Agreed, :thumbup: Vettel has always been such a funny guy, great sense of humour. He can mimic any accent, and even put on a Brummie one against Clarkson; he used to crack the Red Bull mechs up imitating Webber's accent. Once when eating a banana he said to onbe of the journos; " See, any monkey can drive a Red Bull".
We need more humour in F1; I miss the dry humour of Hakkinen, like when he was thanked by the post Indy GP tv interviewer: "You're welcome" in an exaggerated American accent, but laughing eyes. Kimi too is funny, but not when he is unhappy with his car or race. Mario Andretti was also very funny in a laconic way: asked what he thought of the new rookies in 1978: "Jeez some of them think the rollbar is there to be used!"


How is it, POB, that every time you either steal the words right out of my mouth, or state observations that I totally concur with? :)

Vettel has always been funny. And yes, he mimics well, has accents, but the best part of his humour is the intelligence and insightfulness. In every situation, he finds the humurous angle, finds humour in discomfort, is funny when analysing a problem. And with his intelligence, his humour grows all the time.
He also passes off a lot of insight disguised in his humour, which is fascinating when you pick it up.

Now then, regarding who or what I've changed my mind on:

Kimi Raikkonen - I started watching F1 in 2000, as an 11 year old. Ferrari was the team I was a rabid supporter of, along with Schumacher. As a child, reading a lot of articles in 2004 saying Raikkonen is the heir to Schumacher, and having challenged Schumi in 2003, I believed he was the next best thing.
2005 was seemingly confirmation that he was the fastest driver with rotten luck, beaten by a consistent, intelligent but slower Alonslow.

Ferrari chose him. Further confirmation.

Then 2007 happened. Over the whole year, Raikkonen wasn't faster than Massa. Massa was DECIMATED by Schumacher, if you really analyse the fuel corrected times from 2006. My doubts appeared, but I brushed them off by arguing that Raikkonen was settling into a new team, while Massa was embedded.

In 2008, the first 4 races, Raikkonen outclassed Massa, and my belief was justified. However, from then on till 2009, Massa proved he's arguably a faster qualifier, and can outscore Raikkonen. So, either Massa had gained a level since 2006, or Raikkonen wasn't fit to be Schumacher's Schuh, much less wear his crown.

Well, then 2010 happened, which brings me to my next person.

Now the other person I changed my opinion on is
Fernando Alonso.

He was a promising rookie in 2001, was great friends with Schumacher in 2003, playing football together. Seems unbelievable now. So I liked the young driver my idol liked. Youngest race winner, brilliant in 2003.
Then he was beaten by Trulli in 2004.
I concluded Alonso is consistent, intelligent, but not THAT fast.

2005 reaffirmed my beliefs. Consistent, intelligent, but not as fast as Raikkonen.

2006, he beat Schumacher fairly. Lesser mistakes, same number of wins. His performance was flawless, but I had no way to know how FAST he was. Maybe the Renault was much faster than Ferrari, how could we know?

2007 was ugly. He was beaten by a ROOKIE. Another side of him came out. Not that I liked how Hamilton behaved, but hey, he was a rookie. I believed the fastest driver, Raikkonen, ultimately beat them both.

Well, 2008 and 2009 again proved Alonso is consistent, intelligent, but who knew his real speed comparison?

Well, then 2010 happened, and this is where my opinion on Raikkonen and Alonso reversed.

Alonso thrashed Massa by a huge margin. Almost as much as Schumacher did. And that was a Schumacher at Ferrari for 10 years vs a 1st year Massa. Alonso, in his first season at Ferrari, thrashed an experienced Massa. Suddenly, there was no doubting Alonso's speed. He did make a few too many errors that season, and lost the championship, in a slower but more consistent car.

But what Fernando Alonso did after Canada 2011 till Suzuka 2012, the purple patch he hit, I had never seen a driver drive at such an elite level in F1, and at that time, I became a rabid, absolutely maniacal Alonso fan.
He dipped for just a few races in 2013, and then in 2014, to my utter astonishment, hit a level HIGHER than 2012.

Alonso's 2014 season doesn't invite enough analysis and respect. He made NO errors, performed unbelievable feats, and settled the Raikkonen vs Alonso debate so deafeningly, no one could believe it.

Phew, that was long.

That's why I love driver comparisons and analysis like POB does. Imagine what a huge, huge travesty would it be if we had no common teammates to ever measure Raikkonen and Alonso.

Raikkonen would retire as an unlucky lightning fast driver, and Alonso as a consistent, not too fast driver.

In my humble opinion, and in the drivers I've seen, Fernando Alonso doesn't get enough credit for his SHEER SPEED in a race. He's the fastest driver I've ever seen in a race. Add to that the best racecraft and reactions, and it boggles my mind, every day. It's inspirations like him that bring us fans to F1, no matter how gloomy it looks.


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 3:52 pm 
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That was a great post and you put exactly what I wanted very well, there's not a line of that I don't strongly agree with.

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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 6:04 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I thought Fissichella was the absolute dogs bollocks. I probably rated him as the second best driver in F1 01 and 02. Unfortunately he was exposed by Alonso at Renault. I would have predicted he would be able to go toe to toe with Fernando.

I still firmly believe that Fisi was top class and had the ability to give Alonso a real challenge, but the Renault team at the time just did not give equal focus to each driver. Flavio even admitted as much.

EDIT fixed quote!


Last edited by j man on Fri May 13, 2016 5:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 10:15 pm 
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Drivers who were better than I initially thought:

- Alonso
- Ricciardo

I always rated Alonso as a top driver since 2005, but his form patch from Valencia 2011 to Singapore 2012 is the best I've ever seen from any driver. I rate him as one of the top 10 ever. I didn't think Ricciardo would be particularly competitive on race day. I thought he struggled at racecraft and on tyre wear when at STR. He definitely proved me wrong in 2014. Then in the second half of 2015 and so far in 2016, he proved that he's not a one hit wonder either.

Drivers who were not as good as I initially thought:

- Raikkonen
- Massa

The Ferrari drivers from 2007-08. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not. I thought that Massa would run Alonso very close at Ferrari, I turned out to be very wrong. After 2007, Kimi never felt like the same driver again. He was outpaced regularly by Massa, and also quite often by Grosjean at Lotus (sometimes by huge margins). I wasn't even that surprised to see Alonso and Vettel beat him by the margins they did.

Drivers who I always rated about correctly:

- Hamilton
- Button
- Vettel

I have always considered Hamilton to be incredibly talented, even if I haven't always liked him. The same can be said about Vettel, and I detected his struggles to adapt to a car he doesn't quite like as early as 2012. I've always considered Button a solid/good driver who could win a WDC in the right machinery as early as his BAR Honda days.


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 10:16 pm 
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IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
Alonslow

I still remember that nickname. It was almost toxic on F1 forums (especially the less intelligent ones) back in the mid-to-late 2000's.


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 11:03 pm 
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I remember thinking that Alonso was good but not great and that he'd be shown up when traction control was banned. :blush:

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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 11:25 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
I remember thinking that Alonso was good but not great and that he'd be shown up when traction control was banned. :blush:

There was also the thought that Kimi would destroy Massa when traction control was banned.

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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 12:56 pm 
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Vettel, I used to believe it was all about the car that made him so dominant from 2010-2013. But he actually does have skill and has won me over to be a fan (which I was very far from before).

I used to think Rosberg was a fair and clean driver.
In Monaco -14 he he showed how ugly he can play and still celebrated like it was skill that got him that pole. Before that I was a fan, after that I lost all respect.

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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 1:23 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
Alonslow

I still remember that nickname. It was almost toxic on F1 forums (especially the less intelligent ones) back in the mid-to-late 2000's.


"Cruise and collect" is the phrase I associate with Alonso and 2005, win the races Kimi had mechanical problems in and finish P2 in the others

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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 2:01 pm 
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I still believe that Jean Alesi was one of the greatest drivers of his generation. And no one is going to change my mind on that.

I used to think that Ayrton Senna was a complete butt monster, until after his death some of his more positive attributes came to light. He was still an jerk at any race track, but a nice human being away from the business.

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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 3:01 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
I still believe that Jean Alesi was one of the greatest drivers of his generation. And no one is going to change my mind on that.

I used to think that Ayrton Senna was a complete butt monster, until after his death some of his more positive attributes came to light. He was still an jerk at any race track, but a nice human being away from the business.


Isn't this the exact opposite of what the OP is looking for? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 3:09 pm 
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lamo wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
Alonslow

I still remember that nickname. It was almost toxic on F1 forums (especially the less intelligent ones) back in the mid-to-late 2000's.


"Cruise and collect" is the phrase I associate with Alonso and 2005, win the races Kimi had mechanical problems in and finish P2 in the others

Alonso basically maximised what was a slower car.

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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 3:37 pm 
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I did not like Schumi at all for some reason. I supported any other driver that could challenge him. Now I recognise him as the best driver ever. Even with team orders he was the faster driver and would have won championships regardless. Even when he was dominant I never lost interest in the sport. His racing always kept me anxious and glued to the television unlike the current Merc dominance. I can't believe I actually supported JV at one time.


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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 3:57 pm 
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Schumacher was one for me. I didn't change my mind about his talent or anything, I always thought he was the best on the grid, one of the best of all time etc.. but I just wanted anyone else to win but him. Very childish but it is what it is.

Anyway it was only about 18 months, if even that long, after he'd retired until I was desperate for him to come back and when he did I was over the moon. It obviously didn't go that brilliantly but I enjoyed cheering him on for a change and his pole lap at Monaco was genuinely one of the happiest moments I've had watching the sport.

I think that experience made me realise you should enjoy every second you get of watching talent like that on the grid and it's made me root for all veterans really as I know I will miss them all when they are no longer racing. Kimi,Alonso and JB obviously but even Massa too although he didn't have the talent of the other 4 i've mentioned of course.

I want them all to stay in the sport until they are at least 43 now!.

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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 5:21 pm 
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j man wrote:
I thought Fissichella was the absolute dogs bollocks. I probably rated him as the second best driver in F1 01 and 02. Unfortunately he was exposed by Alonso at Renault. I would have predicted he would be able to go toe to toe with Fernando.

I still firmly believe that Fisi was top class and had the ability to give Alonso a real challenge, but the Renault team at the time just did not give equal focus to each driver. Flavio even admitted as much.[/quote]
Yup!

And to be honest Alonso vs Alonso simply doesn't hold ANY water for me because there are a multitude of reasons as to why Raikkonen would be so far off the pace to Alonso. Yes Alonso is a juggxrnaught of epic proportions, but that does not diminish Kimi in my mind one single iota. as with any driver, if the car doesn't suit your preferences but suits those of your teammate, it will show up in the times. Some drivers are better at adapting their skills sets and/or using them to overcome a car's deficiencies than others but if you provide each driver a setup that is ideal to them, only THEN would you see each at their best. You might put Alonso in some cars others won championships in and he could struggle just as Kimi did against him in Ferrari, so to base one's opinion off an ever evolving and never stationary scale, with drivers being compared to one another in different cars in different seasons is terribly flawed. To best assess driver performances to one another we must look to see what each driver has accomplished in their cars against teammates where all was even steven and quite frankly I doubt anyone will ever be able to do that.

At Reb Bull when things were even and Vettel had not yet been the anointed one, both he and Webber were pathetically pretty equal. Then once Vettel became their future, no longer was it equal footing for both, as we saw Vettel get preferential treatment from the team over webber just as we saw Alonso receive the same over both Massa and Raikkonen while at Ferrari.

To be fair, the one time we saw Alonso on equal footing was 2007 and both drivers were equally fast & precise with he edge going to his rookie teammate in pure all-out speed, but and it was always a toss up as to who'd come out on top for the entirety of the season. He's definitely an elite driver, but not head and shoulders better than few other elites as many would have you believe.

Ricciardo is one who is heralded and anointed to be the next best thing but he's not shown sustained excellence outside 2014, and even then I will question what was going on at RB with Vettel. Vettel knew he was on his way to Ferrari and he was off the pace in a way we have NEVER before or since seen from him. A bit ironic. Ricciardo has had moments of brilliance, but so too have countless other drivers who many don't rate, if at all.

What I changed my mind on was Female Drivers.

Given Danica's popularity and the 2 or 3 we had in F1 as test drivers and faces of teams, helping to promote their teams as well as the sport, I was sure they would be given a shot soon. Somehow that didn't pan out and we now have just the lone one in F1 and she's nowhere near qualified to even be given a shot at a practice session. Susie Wolff now officially "retired" was one of the more qualified and she got a few shots during testing and a few practice sessions but she too was never given a shot, not even when Bottas was injured and she was one of their reserve drivers. That solidified it for me that a woman in F1 is still not going to happen for some time. Until a female driver becomes a breakout star, it won't happen. Danica was a breakout star for F1 and now in NASCAR because of her looks and being the sole female in against all guys but she's solid, not superb. If any woman was ever going to break into F1 for real it should have been in 2009 after a solid season for her which included her one and only win in the big leagues. Ironically 2 F1 teams are now run by women but they too realize that they need to field drivers that give them the best for the best results consistently, or, those who bring in wads of cash.

Something else I changed my mind on is thinking Monaco should be a part of F1 forever. That was Loooong ago and for the last 15 or so years It's the race I look forward to mainly to see the driver's helmets. The race is only exhilarating to watch to see the drivers pushing their equipment within MM of the gurders. The most exciting moments I can recall in the last 15 years was Michael setting his pole with Mercedes FROM OUT OF NOWHERE, once again showing the world he IS the GOAT. I literally jumped off my couch and was yelling, almost in tears, but definitely choked up from what I'd just witnessed and in a few seconds I became angry because his penalty meant it was all for not and I knew had there been no penalty, he'd have won the race, because after all, hello… It's Monaco. I think Monaco can be a permanent fixture in F1 but given the nature of the course, maybe it should be an exhibition weekend where the race becomes a 10-15 lap time trial since that is pretty much what it's been for so long. The other exciting moment in recent years was Verstappen pushing hard on Grosjean applying pressure unlike anything we've seen for quite some time, until he grew a bit impatient and went for the move in the inside a tad too prematurely. Another couple of laps and who knows what might've happened.

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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 6:22 pm 
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I thought Ricciardo was going to be the next Webber but I was proven very wrong and I actually became a fan.

Well I actually enjoyed Schumacher during his first 3 seasons in F1. However when Senna died and the way the 1994 season turned out I lost my respect for him and that didn't change when he came back. Of course it's still terrible what happened to him.

Rubens well I firmly believed he could be Senna's successor but eventually he seemed too emotional to become a great.

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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 7:22 pm 
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Re: Kimi and when he is comfortable, the question is when was he ever comfortable? The anomaly is 2005 when he was a lot quicker than Montoya. Otherwise his career is very ordinary. By 2006, Montoya was much closer to Kimi.

Basically from 2006 onwards Kimi has struggled with every car he has had in one way or another. Mclaren done something right.

Re: Vettel vs Webber. Vettel was always faster than Mark from day one, he just had worst luck and made more errors during 2009 and 2010. Mark always was able to match him or beat him on occasion but never for more than a couple of races per season

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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 11:43 pm 
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AravJ wrote:
I did not like Schumi at all for some reason. I supported any other driver that could challenge him. Now I recognise him as the best driver ever. Even with team orders he was the faster driver and would have won championships regardless. Even when he was dominant I never lost interest in the sport. His racing always kept me anxious and glued to the television unlike the current Merc dominance. I can't believe I actually supported JV at one time.

I wasn't a fan either although I did accept that he was the best driver and deserved his titles.

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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 12:12 am 
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lamo wrote:
Re: Kimi and when he is comfortable, the question is when was he ever comfortable? The anomaly is 2005 when he was a lot quicker than Montoya. Otherwise his career is very ordinary. By 2006, Montoya was much closer to Kimi.

Basically from 2006 onwards Kimi has struggled with every car he has had in one way or another. Mclaren done something right.

Re: Vettel vs Webber. Vettel was always faster than Mark from day one, he just had worst luck and made more errors during 2009 and 2010. Mark always was able to match him or beat him on occasion but never for more than a couple of races per season


That Kimi comfort garbage has to be one of the most long running and consistent F1 myths in existence. There is no magic Kimi formula.


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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 12:16 am 
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infi24r wrote:
lamo wrote:
Re: Kimi and when he is comfortable, the question is when was he ever comfortable? The anomaly is 2005 when he was a lot quicker than Montoya. Otherwise his career is very ordinary. By 2006, Montoya was much closer to Kimi.

Basically from 2006 onwards Kimi has struggled with every car he has had in one way or another. Mclaren done something right.

Re: Vettel vs Webber. Vettel was always faster than Mark from day one, he just had worst luck and made more errors during 2009 and 2010. Mark always was able to match him or beat him on occasion but never for more than a couple of races per season


That Kimi comfort garbage has to be one of the most long running and consistent F1 myths in existence. There is no magic Kimi formula.


For his pay packet vs how talented he was, he is probably the most successful F1 driver of all time financially speaking.
He has been the 3rd-10th best driver on the grid through his career but been 1st-2nd highest paid for most if it.

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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 5:30 am 
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1) Regarding Kimi, I thought that in the McLaren he was one of the best going. I always felt he lost a little something when he went to Ferrari. Nowadays, I think his main goal is to pick up his pay at the end of the month. That's just the feeling I get from him. In say 2005 I thought he was just the best guy to watch.

2)I've really warmed up to Seb Vettel over the last few years. I wanted him to do well early, then a few things early in his career annoyed me and he did that crazy frog noise that time (which counted against him a lot). In Ferrari red overalls though I've found him to be very articulate (especially given it's not his native tongue), quite funny at times and I think he gives good answers.

3)My liking to Lewis Hamilton has taken the opposite trajectory. I still love to see the guy race, but I don't like to see him interviewed these days.

4)I thought cars looked weird in 2009. Didn't think I'd get over it. I did.

5) Damon Hill. I got caught up in the media coverage for Suzuka 96 and Damon Hill. It was the first race I cared about and really watched. I thought he was a total boss for winning. Now, I'm not so sure he was even close to being the best. Still have a soft-spot for him though.


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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 7:22 am 
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infi24r wrote:
lamo wrote:
Re: Kimi and when he is comfortable, the question is when was he ever comfortable? The anomaly is 2005 when he was a lot quicker than Montoya. Otherwise his career is very ordinary. By 2006, Montoya was much closer to Kimi.

Basically from 2006 onwards Kimi has struggled with every car he has had in one way or another. Mclaren done something right.

Re: Vettel vs Webber. Vettel was always faster than Mark from day one, he just had worst luck and made more errors during 2009 and 2010. Mark always was able to match him or beat him on occasion but never for more than a couple of races per season


That Kimi comfort garbage has to be one of the most long running and consistent F1 myths in existence. There is no magic Kimi formula.

Why, just because you disagree with it?

It seems pretty obvious that Kimi can be quick sometimes but can also be staggeringly inconsistent. He appears most at sea whenever he has to warm the tyres up. This points to someone with a narrow operating window. Pat Fry did an interview a while back to say that McLaren recognised this and one season with Kimi and JV they had nine different front ends for the car to make sure he was comfortable. No magic formula, but just good engineering sense if you want to make sure your driver can perform at his best.

It's a weakness, for sure, but myth? Odd that you would think so


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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 7:49 am 
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I think with Kimi he perhaps was right up there between 03-06. I think it's possible he was just superb with that formula of tyre and was never able to find that same sweet spot again. I wouldn't discount everything he did pre Ferrari and assume he always performed at post 07 levels. His performances but against Coulthard and Montoya don't make sense if Kmi has only ever been as good as Massa.


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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 11:07 am 
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Zoue wrote:
infi24r wrote:
lamo wrote:
Re: Kimi and when he is comfortable, the question is when was he ever comfortable? The anomaly is 2005 when he was a lot quicker than Montoya. Otherwise his career is very ordinary. By 2006, Montoya was much closer to Kimi.

Basically from 2006 onwards Kimi has struggled with every car he has had in one way or another. Mclaren done something right.

Re: Vettel vs Webber. Vettel was always faster than Mark from day one, he just had worst luck and made more errors during 2009 and 2010. Mark always was able to match him or beat him on occasion but never for more than a couple of races per season


That Kimi comfort garbage has to be one of the most long running and consistent F1 myths in existence. There is no magic Kimi formula.

Why, just because you disagree with it?

It seems pretty obvious that Kimi can be quick sometimes but can also be staggeringly inconsistent. He appears most at sea whenever he has to warm the tyres up. This points to someone with a narrow operating window. Pat Fry did an interview a while back to say that McLaren recognised this and one season with Kimi and JV they had nine different front ends for the car to make sure he was comfortable. No magic formula, but just good engineering sense if you want to make sure your driver can perform at his best.

It's a weakness, for sure, but myth? Odd that you would think so

Maybe in one respect he shouldn't have left McLaren but he got the title in 2007 plus he would not have earned nearly the same amount of money.

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