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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:15 am 
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Autosport wrote:
Formula 1 chiefs are considering a team radio clampdown as part of a push to make the sport more challenging for drivers again

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115776


I am all for this. This may just be an initial step in the right direction and I'm sure it will be very difficult to police.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:26 am 
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Wait, a good idea that the fans have actually been calling for, is going to be implemented?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:32 am 
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I'd be happy if that was the case, although one lurking concern is enforcement. Would be sad to see penalties because of something somebody said.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:36 am 
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It's an intriguing development and I can see what the objective is but how is it going to be managed? They're not saying get rid of all radio communications but limit them to procedural and safety related discussions. But those are quite subjective terms and can be open to interpretation. So who will decide if the communication between driver and team is acceptable or not? What penalties could be applied and to whom (team or driver) if they are deemed to be in breach of the rule quoted (the driver must drive the car alone and unaided)? Other than outright banning radio communications entirely (hey - they don't have it in MotoGP so why does F1 really need it?*) I think nothing will change.

*It's a rhetorical question. F1 will never get rid of team radio as F1 drivers have a lot more to do regarding the operation and setup of the car whilst driving it and they therefore need an engineer to guide them through that. A MotoGP (and other motorcycle racing classes) rider, ASFAIK, has no settings or adjustments to manpulate on the bike - certainly no control device with over thirty buttons and dials and a display unit with multiple menus to navigate.

Hey maybe that's the problem. The ban on teams being able to adjust settings on the car remotely from the pit has resulted in more and more complication for the operation of the car by the driver requiring a contast stream of instructions from the driver's engineer. Instead of the pits going through the settings of the car on the move the driver now is doing it. He is multi-tasking as a driver and engineer/technicialn. Maybe we should revisit the whole concept of pit to car adjustments.

Instead of: "Ok Lewis. We need you to enter mode B-3 Alpha 3 on the MGU-K. Press blue for two seconds and then yellow G4 six times". It should be: "Ok Lewis. We hear you on the power loss so we're going to reset the MGU-K on the main straight for you - so just come off the racing line slightly as you will have slight power loss before it returns."


Last edited by JonA on Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:36 am 
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Well good to hear they are finally listening to us fans and not doing things which they think we want but we actually don't. I wonder how far they will take this radio clampdown? I think it would be good for the drivers to judge themselves whether they need to fuel save or not.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:42 am 
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But what counts as helping with the drivers performance?

Giving advice for braking, or where you're losing time to your team mate is fair enough. But how about advising to turn their engine or recovery mode up or down, informing them of fuel saving? These all help the drivers overall race performance, but without a detailed display on the steering wheel, how can drivers know this?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:14 am 
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Not sure I like this. One of the things that attracts me to F1 is the synchronicity between the driver and the team. I love the fact that there's tens of people going through masses of data to find out where that extra tenth can be earned then relying on the driver to put their findings into practice. I wouldn't particularly like to lose that...

If I want drivers racing on raw gut and instinct, I watch MotoGP.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:33 pm 
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Pedrosa_4_Ever wrote:
Not sure I like this. One of the things that attracts me to F1 is the synchronicity between the driver and the team. I love the fact that there's tens of people going through masses of data to find out where that extra tenth can be earned then relying on the driver to put their findings into practice. I wouldn't particularly like to lose that...

If I want drivers racing on raw gut and instinct, I watch MotoGP.


It was a shame this got lost in the post , but pre Austria Alonso brought this up and explained the thinking behind it. Coultard took it futher and detailed how it would work during practice commentary . Can't remember all the details but he basically put forward a case for greater driver input. More a slight change in emphasis than a cut off.

And whilst I understand your point about synchronicity, I did enjoy the thought of dozens of Merc employees beavering away with data, management working out a strategy based on that data and passing it on to Lewis's engineer; only for Lewis to completely ignore it and prove them all wrong. :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:39 pm 
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I don't like it as it's a form of censorship. Gone will be classic F1 moments like Raikkonnen's outburst at his team, and ability to form a true picture of the driver.

I remember having to defend F1 against all the calls of boredom from colleagues, but now I am running out of arguments and can see myself not watching F1 anymore. Not because of this, rather the sum of all the things the management has done to make it more interesting, which just makes it worse for me. I like things to be pure and the less marketing meddling, the better


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:45 pm 
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It would be like team orders ban. Instead of saying: Nico save your front tires", his engineer will say: "Nico your front tires are about to explode, this is very UNSAFE."

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:47 pm 
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hydra wrote:
I don't like it as it's a form of censorship. Gone will be classic F1 moments like Raikkonnen's outburst at his team, and ability to form a true picture of the driver.

I remember having to defend F1 against all the calls of boredom from colleagues, but now I am running out of arguments and can see myself not watching F1 anymore. Not because of this, rather the sum of all the things the management has done to make it more interesting, which just makes it worse for me. I like things to be pure and the less marketing meddling, the better

I get the underlying sentiment, but how does making the driver make his own decisions somehow make it less pure?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:47 pm 
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hydra wrote:
I don't like it as it's a form of censorship. Gone will be classic F1 moments like Raikkonnen's outburst at his team, and ability to form a true picture of the driver.

I remember having to defend F1 against all the calls of boredom from colleagues, but now I am running out of arguments and can see myself not watching F1 anymore. Not because of this, rather the sum of all the things the management has done to make it more interesting, which just makes it worse for me. I like things to be pure and the less marketing meddling, the better

According to the article the drivers would be free to talk away like always i.e. we'd still get the outbursts

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:54 pm 
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from what I understand, there will still be team radio, just we won't get to hear it. Health and Safety and all that, I can't imagine they'd leave no way to communicate to the driver, in case of emergencies, like the car's going to explode.....

Just leave it all alone, let them race, choose if they want to have pit stops, fuel stops, and that's it. The less requirements the better, pure racing, like the racing that turned you on to F1. It's just so sad such a great sport, already not getting the praise it deserves, to be ruined like this for no benefit. I don't know anybody who watches F1 anymore, 10 years ago I could talk about the weekend race with anyone, even my family. But now I get it, media have to make up stories to keep it interesting, mountains out of smallest mole hills, and sooner or later it will be the last straw for me.

I don't wish to turn anyone off F1 and it deserves to have fans who enjoy it so I'm all for that. Let's see how the 3 cars per team thing goes, but F1 in 10 years will not be F1


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:03 pm 
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I've never understood peoples problems with this, it helps the drivers race faster which is a good thing in my book. F1 the forefront of technology :-?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:07 pm 
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hydra wrote:
I don't like it as it's a form of censorship. Gone will be classic F1 moments like Raikkonnen's outburst at his team, and ability to form a true picture of the driver.

I remember having to defend F1 against all the calls of boredom from colleagues, but now I am running out of arguments and can see myself not watching F1 anymore. Not because of this, rather the sum of all the things the management has done to make it more interesting, which just makes it worse for me. I like things to be pure and the less marketing meddling, the better


I don't think we can call censorship in what is essentially a battle to put more focus on the drivers. Horner was going on about F1 should be about the drivers and I agree. The cars are always there but the drivers have less input now than they ever have - we need to redress that balance to some extent.

I'm not sure if this will relate to fuel saving etc - but the advising when to brake, specific areas they're losing time on the throttle etc was embarrassing for everyone involved. Imagine a casual fan tuning in and hearing a driver being told how to drive? It shouldn't be happening. I understand why it is and don't blame drivers for taking any advantage they can - but I'd much rather they didn't have that option open to them.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:09 pm 
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just a quick comment for now.

I have no idea how one can think of this idea being good.

Those radio comm are great for me as a fan to be more involved in the race, know more about what is going on, learn some very interesting stuff and just be more "inside" the race as a spectator. I can only see positives, cannot think of any negatives. The FIA is destroying F1….


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:59 pm 
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teams are just going to develop codes they can use to communicate with seemingly innocent messages


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:00 pm 
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which i think is great by the way, less radio orders and info, and also the fun of trying to decode cryptic messages. win/win


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:25 pm 
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Oh great, more policing and penalizing...


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:35 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:36 pm 
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Doubt this will come to pass and even if it does there is still that bit of now ancient technology known as Pit boards. All a team has to do is write TL Sec 2 (Time lost in Sector 2) really large on the board and display it as their driver zooms past and the same effect is achieved, and Fuel settings/changes can and would be handled identically. Nothing would change outside the convenience factor really. About the only thing that might be affected with any sort of significance would be brake temps as drivers would have to feel them out and decide for themselves when and where to change bias and where to use the transmission to aide in slowing the car in key ares where the brakes are being punished.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:08 pm 
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Would much prefer if driver telemetry was taken off when you have drivers robotically copying others' racing lines. Don't see how this radio clampdown will do much good, only to see drivers having to be techies as well.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:21 pm 
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Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Would much prefer if driver telemetry was taken off when you have drivers robotically copying others' racing lines. Don't see how this radio clampdown will do much good, only to see drivers having to be techies as well.

They did it a couple of decades ago without much fuss.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:26 pm 
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Arai_or_Nothing wrote:
Doubt this will come to pass and even if it does there is still that bit of now ancient technology known as Pit boards. All a team has to do is write TL Sec 2 (Time lost in Sector 2) really large on the board and display it as their driver zooms past and the same effect is achieved, and Fuel settings/changes can and would be handled identically. Nothing would change outside the convenience factor really. About the only thing that might be affected with any sort of significance would be brake temps as drivers would have to feel them out and decide for themselves when and where to change bias and where to use the transmission to aide in slowing the car in key ares where the brakes are being punished.

But if the legislation is written correctly then the Pit Boards could come under the same restrictions. It's possible. And it would be harder to advise to brake 3m later or short shift etc.

Anything that makes the drivers more responsible gets my vote. How hard can fitting a fuel guage be?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:40 pm 
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Im assuming 'Fuel save so strat 6; magic button to blue' will be replaced by 'reduce fuel consumption by 5%.' After all the drivers seem to be able to manage 'we need another 5 laps out these tyres'.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:47 pm 
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I can not see it being successfully policed without the complete removal of radio communication.
Use pit boards only.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:50 pm 
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This is ridiculous. Teams could easily start coding messages and the stewards would be none the wiser!

F1 fans are getting seriously picky! We've had a great season of racing so far and people still want more changes to happen! Just leave it as it is and stop interfering with the sport...


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:56 pm 
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It's a bit like when they tried to ban team orders being given over the radio. That went well right?...

You either ban the radio, ban the remote telemetry or you to let them get on with it.
As they should well know from the previous radio censorship fiasco.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:58 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Would much prefer if driver telemetry was taken off when you have drivers robotically copying others' racing lines. Don't see how this radio clampdown will do much good, only to see drivers having to be techies as well.

They did it a couple of decades ago without much fuss.


But did they have EG4-39 MGU-K, MGR67, MULTI21 back then? All they had to do in the eighties was release their foot from the clutch and change the gears.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:02 pm 
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Its a rule that would be impossible to police. Either ban two way radio or you have to let everything go.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:03 pm 
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They are obviously trying to take away driver coaching from the pitlane, this seems the most evident with Mercedes, do we really want to hear drivers saying "please can you advise me how i might drive better", then the engineer takes a look to see what his teammate is doing, i feel this is the main turn off for some fans and i'm guessing that will be the first thing to be nipped in the bud.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:17 pm 
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windwaves wrote:
just a quick comment for now.

I have no idea how one can think of this idea being good.

Those radio comm are great for me as a fan to be more involved in the race, know more about what is going on, learn some very interesting stuff and just be more "inside" the race as a spectator. I can only see positives, cannot think of any negatives. The FIA is destroying F1….

Uh... F1 went, like, 40 years without pit-to-car radio and the sport was just fine

Do you want puppets or drivers that can think for themselves?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:22 pm 
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I'd be all for this. Restrict radio to emergencies / penalties only. None of this switch the settings to x y z to save fuel/turn the engine up.

I'd much prefer the racing to be between the drivers and less about tech guys telling them where to hit KERS and what engine mode they need to be in. Have the dash tell them how much fuel they have and let the driver work out if he's burning too much.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:31 pm 
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A step in the right direction in my opinion.
I would want them to ban the "driving advices" only, such as braking points, line through a corner etc...
As far as fuel saving advices, I think those should still be allowed, along with saving the tires and all of that. If they want to ban those as well, then let them use more fuel during the race and give them tires that they can actually race on.

What counts for me is that the driver is the only one responsible for how fast he is capable of going around the track.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:35 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
A step in the right direction in my opinion.
I would want them to ban the "driving advices" only, such as braking points, line through a corner etc...
As far as fuel saving advices, I think those should still be allowed, along with saving the tires and all of that. If they want to ban those as well, then let them use more fuel during the race and give them tires that they can actually race on.

What counts for me is that the driver is the only one responsible for how fast he is capable of going around the track.

Surely this is the case even if the team are giving him advice? They're not physically pushing the accelerator and brake pedals for him!

It's funny, I can thing of very few sports that actively ban coaching during play (tennis being the only one and even then, it is being trialed).

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:57 pm 
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Pedrosa_4_Ever wrote:
kleefton wrote:
A step in the right direction in my opinion.
I would want them to ban the "driving advices" only, such as braking points, line through a corner etc...
As far as fuel saving advices, I think those should still be allowed, along with saving the tires and all of that. If they want to ban those as well, then let them use more fuel during the race and give them tires that they can actually race on.

What counts for me is that the driver is the only one responsible for how fast he is capable of going around the track.

Surely this is the case even if the team are giving him advice? They're not physically pushing the accelerator and brake pedals for him!

It's funny, I can thing of very few sports that actively ban coaching during play (tennis being the only one and even then, it is being trialed).


Rubbish. The engineers should not have to tell them what is the best braking point or where they are losing time to their teammates etc.... They should be able to figure it out through the free practice data anyway. It just sounds so cheesy when they do it.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:07 pm 
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I like the idea in principle, but they need to think carefully about how it is implemented. A ban on saying certain things over the radio seems a little silly to me.

I was wondering about a full ban on radios, full stop. To overcome the safety issue the steering wheels could be fitted with an FIA-controlled screen through which the race director can feed essential info about incidents on track, penalties applied etc. The team still has access to all their telemetry data and to give the drivers all the info they need during post-session debriefs, thus the driver can find out about where they are losing time through the weekend, but it ensures that during the race the driver is completely on their own. Calls to pit can be managed by the good old fashioned pit board.

Taking away the drivers' ability to manage certain systems on the car would help keep speeds in check too, as the teams would have to give greater margin in designing components knowing that there would be limited scope to manage them during the race if they'd cut it a bit fine.

The only downside I can see is that I do enjoy the technical insight you get from team radio


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:16 pm 
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j man wrote:
To overcome the safety issue the steering wheels could be fitted with an FIA-controlled screen through which the race director can feed essential info about incidents on track, penalties applied etc.

Why not a direct radio between Race Control & drivers?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:32 pm 
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A pointless development and one that's completely unenforceable.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:35 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Arai_or_Nothing wrote:
Doubt this will come to pass and even if it does there is still that bit of now ancient technology known as Pit boards. All a team has to do is write TL Sec 2 (Time lost in Sector 2) really large on the board and display it as their driver zooms past and the same effect is achieved, and Fuel settings/changes can and would be handled identically. Nothing would change outside the convenience factor really. About the only thing that might be affected with any sort of significance would be brake temps as drivers would have to feel them out and decide for themselves when and where to change bias and where to use the transmission to aide in slowing the car in key ares where the brakes are being punished.

But if the legislation is written correctly then the Pit Boards could come under the same restrictions. It's possible. And it would be harder to advise to brake 3m later or short shift etc.

Anything that makes the drivers more responsible gets my vote. How hard can fitting a fuel guage be?

LOL

Love your insight. That last bit is golden I say, GOLDEN!!!

Realistically the teams would then produce a more detailed heads up display where the driver has all the info available to them at all times and they would be able to make the adjustments on their own without any advisement front he team. The cart and it's proprietary systems would then relay it's own info independent from the pit wall. I think it would take a butload of literature to completely abolish any and all telemetry that would assist drivers. As for sector times, just as we get to see a readout of times with color codes, so too could the drivers. Just a quick glance at a certain section and they'll be able to tell where they need to make up time.


Last edited by Arai_or_Nothing on Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:57 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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