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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:06 pm 
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Yet again we saw Ferrari openly arguing, and eventually agreeing to their driver, who put some sense in them.
He sounded exasperatedand in disbelief as he asked "Who will we undercut?! '' the next shots was hilarious, showing Vettel with no one ahead for miles.

Tellingly, Vettel lost 7 seconds to Raikkonen on the last lap. Was that due to the tyres dying? What if he had agreed to the team and pitted even earlier? Ferrari seem to be in complete shambles. But why is their strategy so much worse than everyone else's?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 3:15 pm 
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Yeah, that was odd. Didn't something similar happen in Azerbaijan?

Vettel seems to have a better clue of the race than the strategy dept.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 4:03 pm 
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Ferrari were probably the best at strategy in 2012.

Right now, it seems that they are trying too hard to beat cars they simply cannot beat with odd and overly aggressive strategies instead of just doing the best job they can.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 4:09 pm 
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To add to King above, they are desperate as the car is just not good enough.
So they are trying to create results and making mistakes in the process.

I think if they fix the car, the strategy and results will follow.
The big question has to be, can they fix the car?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:34 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Ferrari were probably the best at strategy in 2012.

Right now, it seems that they are trying too hard to beat cars they simply cannot beat with odd and overly aggressive strategies instead of just doing the best job they can.

Ferrari's botched strategy at Canada ultimately cost Alonso the title.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:47 pm 
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If Vettel had pitted when instructed he may just have gained track position over Rosberg.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:26 pm 
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I wondered that as well but given Vettel lost at least 10 seconds to Rosberg in the final stint I don't see what difference it would have made.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:51 pm 
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IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
Yet again we saw Ferrari openly arguing, and eventually agreeing to their driver, who put some sense in them.
He sounded exasperatedand in disbelief as he asked "Who will we undercut?! '' the next shots was hilarious, showing Vettel with no one ahead for miles.

Tellingly, Vettel lost 7 seconds to Raikkonen on the last lap. Was that due to the tyres dying? What if he had agreed to the team and pitted even earlier? Ferrari seem to be in complete shambles. But why is their strategy so much worse than everyone else's?


Think you forgot to mention Seb agreed that he was in the wrong. Unless I am mistaken (after the race).

The mess at Ferrari is quite a few things, their strat is split because they dont have the car to compete so sorry to say 1 driver is usually going to dip.

Sebs performances have dropped and now Kimi is giving him a very good run for his money.
Sebs attitude may cost him and create a similar fallout that Alonso had. No one driver is bigger than a team especially Ferrari. I'm no Ferrari fan but if I was president, I'd slap quite a few faces including Sebs.

I wouldnt say their strat is worse than anyone else's - you are blind if you really think that. Only have to look at Williams, Mclaren make a ton of mistakes, even RBR have done so. Think you are being a bit BIAS by not realising they are all doing it. Ferrari simply are now 3rd best car.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:17 pm 
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I miss the back and forth on the radio between Seb and the team, but as per I have read one thing is clear, Seb does not trust the team, and if there is no trust.........


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:57 am 
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GingerFurball wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Ferrari were probably the best at strategy in 2012.

Right now, it seems that they are trying too hard to beat cars they simply cannot beat with odd and overly aggressive strategies instead of just doing the best job they can.

Ferrari's botched strategy at Canada ultimately cost Alonso the title.


Alonso's mistake in Japan ultimately cost him the title.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:35 am 
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You think it could be a case of too many cooks?

Someone will "have a good idea" and being a boss it must be seen to be considered.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:41 am 
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Well... at least they're not as bad as Williams if that's any consolation.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:50 am 
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Teddy007 wrote:
Think you forgot to mention Seb agreed that he was in the wrong. Unless I am mistaken (after the race).

...

Sebs performances have dropped and now Kimi is giving him a very good run for his money.
Sebs attitude may cost him and create a similar fallout that Alonso had. No one driver is bigger than a team especially Ferrari. I'm no Ferrari fan but if I was president, I'd slap quite a few faces including Sebs.


I don't understand this at all. Vettel has been shouldering a lot of the blame lately where he shouldn't really have done that - whereas it's obvious Ferrari is underperforming, he has tried to take a lot of the blame and point it to himself. This must be about the definition of "not being bigger than the team". He essentially tries to divert all criticism away from them!

Not sure whether Vettel's performances have dropped rather than Raikkonen finally having a few good races - or maybe even a good season. Is there honestly anyone who believes that the Ferrari this weekend was a match for RBR, let alone Merc?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:51 am 
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mds wrote:
Teddy007 wrote:
Think you forgot to mention Seb agreed that he was in the wrong. Unless I am mistaken (after the race).

...

Sebs performances have dropped and now Kimi is giving him a very good run for his money.
Sebs attitude may cost him and create a similar fallout that Alonso had. No one driver is bigger than a team especially Ferrari. I'm no Ferrari fan but if I was president, I'd slap quite a few faces including Sebs.


I don't understand this at all. Vettel has been shouldering a lot of the blame lately where he shouldn't really have done that - whereas it's obvious Ferrari is underperforming, he has tried to take a lot of the blame and point it to himself. This must be about the definition of "not being bigger than the team". He essentially tries to divert all criticism away from them!

Not sure whether Vettel's performances have dropped rather than Raikkonen finally having a few good races - or maybe even a good season. Is there honestly anyone who believes that the Ferrari this weekend was a match for RBR, let alone Merc?


It wasn't far off in the race TBF.

Assuming Vettel and the RBR drivers have similar pace of course.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:55 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
mds wrote:
Teddy007 wrote:
Think you forgot to mention Seb agreed that he was in the wrong. Unless I am mistaken (after the race).

...

Sebs performances have dropped and now Kimi is giving him a very good run for his money.
Sebs attitude may cost him and create a similar fallout that Alonso had. No one driver is bigger than a team especially Ferrari. I'm no Ferrari fan but if I was president, I'd slap quite a few faces including Sebs.


I don't understand this at all. Vettel has been shouldering a lot of the blame lately where he shouldn't really have done that - whereas it's obvious Ferrari is underperforming, he has tried to take a lot of the blame and point it to himself. This must be about the definition of "not being bigger than the team". He essentially tries to divert all criticism away from them!

Not sure whether Vettel's performances have dropped rather than Raikkonen finally having a few good races - or maybe even a good season. Is there honestly anyone who believes that the Ferrari this weekend was a match for RBR, let alone Merc?


It wasn't far off in the race TBF.

Assuming Vettel and the RBR drivers have similar pace of course.


How was it not far off? Ricciardo ended up 25 seconds in front.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:06 am 
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mds wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
mds wrote:
Teddy007 wrote:
Think you forgot to mention Seb agreed that he was in the wrong. Unless I am mistaken (after the race).

...

Sebs performances have dropped and now Kimi is giving him a very good run for his money.
Sebs attitude may cost him and create a similar fallout that Alonso had. No one driver is bigger than a team especially Ferrari. I'm no Ferrari fan but if I was president, I'd slap quite a few faces including Sebs.


I don't understand this at all. Vettel has been shouldering a lot of the blame lately where he shouldn't really have done that - whereas it's obvious Ferrari is underperforming, he has tried to take a lot of the blame and point it to himself. This must be about the definition of "not being bigger than the team". He essentially tries to divert all criticism away from them!

Not sure whether Vettel's performances have dropped rather than Raikkonen finally having a few good races - or maybe even a good season. Is there honestly anyone who believes that the Ferrari this weekend was a match for RBR, let alone Merc?


It wasn't far off in the race TBF.

Assuming Vettel and the RBR drivers have similar pace of course.


How was it not far off? Ricciardo ended up 25 seconds in front.


I might be wrong but I thought Vettel cruised at the end and dropped about 12 seconds in the last 3 laps?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:12 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
mds wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
mds wrote:
Teddy007 wrote:
Think you forgot to mention Seb agreed that he was in the wrong. Unless I am mistaken (after the race).

...

Sebs performances have dropped and now Kimi is giving him a very good run for his money.
Sebs attitude may cost him and create a similar fallout that Alonso had. No one driver is bigger than a team especially Ferrari. I'm no Ferrari fan but if I was president, I'd slap quite a few faces including Sebs.


I don't understand this at all. Vettel has been shouldering a lot of the blame lately where he shouldn't really have done that - whereas it's obvious Ferrari is underperforming, he has tried to take a lot of the blame and point it to himself. This must be about the definition of "not being bigger than the team". He essentially tries to divert all criticism away from them!

Not sure whether Vettel's performances have dropped rather than Raikkonen finally having a few good races - or maybe even a good season. Is there honestly anyone who believes that the Ferrari this weekend was a match for RBR, let alone Merc?


It wasn't far off in the race TBF.

Assuming Vettel and the RBR drivers have similar pace of course.


How was it not far off? Ricciardo ended up 25 seconds in front.


I might be wrong but I thought Vettel cruised at the end and dropped about 12 seconds in the last 3 laps?


6 seconds. That's still 20-ish seconds missing on RBR.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:48 am 
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Its not about strategy, its about pace. Slightly slower than the Red Bulls, thats it


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:37 pm 
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mds wrote:

6 seconds. That's still 20-ish seconds missing on RBR.


OK, I thought it was more than that.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:48 pm 
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Whilst they have made some bad calls, but then again most teams do, if not all, at some point each season, the pace issue is the thing to look at here.

You have to put yourself in the mindset of those on the pit wall. Who are Ferrari racing against in each race? They are clearly not racing Merc at the moment and to some extent, Red Bull looked quicker yesterday regardless of strategy. Therefore they, like other teams may appear to be making odd calls, but it could be to ensure they don't drop any further down in a specific race.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:53 pm 
Alonso was right to leave Ferrari. Things are Ferrari just fall short in so many ways. Allison is lucky to get out there.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:26 pm 
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silkjet wrote:
Alonso was right to leave Ferrari. Things are Ferrari just fall short in so many ways. Allison is lucky to get out there.


Yeah, because McLaren is so much better huh?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:01 pm 
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guardiangr wrote:
silkjet wrote:
Alonso was right to leave Ferrari. Things are Ferrari just fall short in so many ways. Allison is lucky to get out there.

Yeah, because McLaren is so much better huh?

Alonso was right because he believed Ferrari wouldn't be able to challenge for a championship in the near future, and Macca might. As long as the first assumption remains true, his gamble was still the right one to take; he exchanged what he believed was no chance of the WDC for a long shot at the WDC. If the McLaren-Honda project delivers a championship-capable car next year, his gamble will have paid off. If they don't - and Ferrari also don't win the title - he hasn't lost anything except a few career wins and maybe pole positions anyway.

In point of fact, if you compare McLaren and Ferrari - starting in 2015, when he switched - McLaren has obviously been trending upwards, while Ferrari have actually gone in the opposite direction. Now without a clear leader in their design department, there's little reason to assume Ferrari's slide won't continue, whereas the greatest source of McLaren's difficulties - the engine - is clearly improving. In the short-moderate term (3-5 years, all Alonso has to think about), McLaren looks like the better bet to deliver a title-winning car.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:04 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
guardiangr wrote:
silkjet wrote:
Alonso was right to leave Ferrari. Things are Ferrari just fall short in so many ways. Allison is lucky to get out there.

Yeah, because McLaren is so much better huh?

Alonso was right because he believed Ferrari wouldn't be able to challenge for a championship in the near future, and Macca might. As long as the first assumption remains true, his gamble was still the right one to take; he exchanged what he believed was no chance of the WDC for a long shot at the WDC. If the McLaren-Honda project delivers a championship-capable car next year, his gamble will have paid off. If they don't - and Ferrari also don't win the title - he hasn't lost anything except a few career wins and maybe pole positions anyway.

In point of fact, if you compare McLaren and Ferrari - starting in 2015, when he switched - McLaren has obviously been trending upwards, while Ferrari have actually gone in the opposite direction. Now without a clear leader in their design department, there's little reason to assume Ferrari's slide won't continue, whereas the greatest source of McLaren's difficulties - the engine - is clearly improving. In the short-moderate term (3-5 years, all Alonso has to think about), McLaren looks like the better bet to deliver a title-winning car.


Ferrari is trending upwards since 2014 as well. Granted they became stale the last couple of races but still they have the second best engine and I would bet my money on them and not McLaren for winning something in the following years. Alonso knew that, that's why he tried to actually stay at Ferrari when he realised his only other option was McLaren. 2017 will probably be his last year in F1 anyway if things don't improve dramatically.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:52 pm 
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There is a good mention of the nest 3 year at Ferrari on Joe's blog. ( https://joesaward.wordpress.com )

.... in effect, set back its progress by three years. The first year will be spent looking for engineers to replace James Allison and his men (most of whom will have been receiving offers since the moment the announcement was made). There will be periods of gardening leave required before a new cohesive team gets together, which will take another year and then it will take a year to get their first proper design from the new crew....


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:21 pm 
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Teddy007 wrote:
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
Yet again we saw Ferrari openly arguing, and eventually agreeing to their driver, who put some sense in them.
He sounded exasperatedand in disbelief as he asked "Who will we undercut?! '' the next shots was hilarious, showing Vettel with no one ahead for miles.

Tellingly, Vettel lost 7 seconds to Raikkonen on the last lap. Was that due to the tyres dying? What if he had agreed to the team and pitted even earlier? Ferrari seem to be in complete shambles. But why is their strategy so much worse than everyone else's?


Think you forgot to mention Seb agreed that he was in the wrong. Unless I am mistaken (after the race).

The mess at Ferrari is quite a few things, their strat is split because they dont have the car to compete so sorry to say 1 driver is usually going to dip.

Sebs performances have dropped and now Kimi is giving him a very good run for his money.
Sebs attitude may cost him and create a similar fallout that Alonso had. No one driver is bigger than a team especially Ferrari. I'm no Ferrari fan but if I was president, I'd slap quite a few faces including Sebs.

I wouldnt say their strat is worse than anyone else's - you are blind if you really think that. Only have to look at Williams, Mclaren make a ton of mistakes, even RBR have done so. Think you are being a bit BIAS by not realising they are all doing it. Ferrari simply are now 3rd best car.

The biggest issue for Ferrari in the last 6-8 years has been the turnover which leads to instability. Look at Allison now, leaving mid-season even. While he has personal issues he's dealing with in his personal life, that might be telling of more going on behind the scenes than is known outside Ferrari themselves.

At this point there are so many people in new positions all over the place for them the drivers should be the focal point as they have been racing and in F1 longer than many of those making the decisions. A bit of a stretch there but you know what I mean.

Maurizio Arrivabene himself IS NOT a racing person and was promoted through the ranks, possibly due to the influx of cash Phillip Morris dumps into Ferrari each year, but IMPO he's not the right guy for the job. It was rumored that like Domenicali before him he worked up the ranks at Ferrari to get to where he is but that is far from the case. He's a marketing and advertising mind and coming from Phillip Morris I wonder how good he is because those things somehow have managed to sell themselves for almost 40 years now. Outside of being a true Blooded Italian and seemingly passionate about Ferrari, I just don't see how he factors into the equation. Of course, it's painted by the powers that be that he has been so important for Ferrari and blah, blah, BLAH, but it's all a political game being played and it's costing Ferrari. Perhaps this weighed on Allison's mind as well and helped him come to the decision to leave.

Ferrari's strategy has been flip flopping all over the place for several seasons now and I think that adds to the illusion of them being farther off the pace than they truly are. At times I find them to be too reliant on what others are doing and they react to what others do when it's clear they would be better served to call their guys in before the rest to give them the opportunity to claw back precious time to aid in closing gaps or even getting past others. Too often they wait too long and by the time they call their drivers in, the gaps are so wide they have to overdrive the tires to close gaps and they end up stuck behind opponents with very little to no chance of passing. They're not too far off usually so so it's quite possible that if they take the initiative to be proactive instead of reactive in strategy calls, they could very well have better control of their races.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:16 pm 
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guardiangr wrote:
Ferrari is trending upwards since 2014 as well.

There's a reason I said 2015, not 2014! ;)

guardiangr wrote:
Granted they became stale the last couple of races but still they have the second best engine and I would bet my money on them and not McLaren for winning something in the following years.

That's actually one of the reasons I think Ferrari is in trouble. They do have the second best engine - close to Mercedes, if not quite equal. That means their problem is on the chassis/aerodynamic side, which is the side that a) they don't have any restrictions on, so if they knew what to do they'd have done it already, and b) overseen by the man who just left. McLaren on the other hand are mainly (although not only) suffering on the engine side, where the development restrictions will be significantly lifted next year and there's every reason to believe the PU will continue to improve. Their technical director did not just leave, and nothing will have interrupted their ability to take advantage of the new regulations - which they had a hand in designing.

If I was Alonso, I'd still feel I made the right gamble at this point. Obviously as an Alonso fan I'd love to have been seeing him challenge for race wins these last two years, but Ferrari aren't winning the championship this year, and I find it very hard to believe they will next year either. He hasn't lost anything, and if McLaren-Honda get it right next year, he stands to gain a great deal.

guardiangr wrote:
Alonso knew that, that's why he tried to actually stay at Ferrari when he realised his only other option was McLaren. 2017 will probably be his last year in F1 anyway if things don't improve dramatically.

Yes, because that's totally backed up by the facts...

Agreed about the second part. But that has nothing to do with whether or not they will improve.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:12 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Ferrari were probably the best at strategy in 2012.

Right now, it seems that they are trying too hard to beat cars they simply cannot beat with odd and overly aggressive strategies instead of just doing the best job they can.


:?:

Huge amount of points lost in Canada, Silverstone and Barcelona through poor strategy.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:14 pm 
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guardiangr wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Ferrari were probably the best at strategy in 2012.

Right now, it seems that they are trying too hard to beat cars they simply cannot beat with odd and overly aggressive strategies instead of just doing the best job they can.

Ferrari's botched strategy at Canada ultimately cost Alonso the title.


Alonso's mistake in Japan ultimately cost him the title.


what mistake?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:24 pm 
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It's a very fine line between success and failure in F1 and with Ferrari you are constantly under a very powerful microscope. Last year in Malaysia their strategy for the win was absolutely perfect, they didn't pit under the safety car, they remained out made the tyres work and won the race.

This year in Australia, the race was red flagged, they went onto the option tyre which was a mistake and Mercedes took the win. Yesterdays hero becomes todays zero.

Now although it clearly didn't happen, a Vettel win in Oz, a Kimi win in Spain and a Vettel win in Canada and we would be talking about some updates which haven't worked as opposed to the press mauling we've seen over the last few weeks.

As for why they tried an undercut on a car half a dozen seconds up the road, who knows? Maybe they thought we've nothing to lose from where we are, lets pit, hope Red Bull do the same a lap later to utter cover him off and who knows a dodgy pit stop may of got them ahead. As it transpired, the radio message played it the way it did and by the time they 'agreed' to pit I think Max had already been in and out again.

Who knows? Maybe they just are gash at strategy!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:46 pm 
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davidheath461 wrote:
guardiangr wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Ferrari were probably the best at strategy in 2012.

Right now, it seems that they are trying too hard to beat cars they simply cannot beat with odd and overly aggressive strategies instead of just doing the best job they can.

Ferrari's botched strategy at Canada ultimately cost Alonso the title.


Alonso's mistake in Japan ultimately cost him the title.


what mistake?


Not seeing Raikonnen.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:51 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
guardiangr wrote:
Ferrari is trending upwards since 2014 as well.

There's a reason I said 2015, not 2014! ;)

guardiangr wrote:
Granted they became stale the last couple of races but still they have the second best engine and I would bet my money on them and not McLaren for winning something in the following years.

That's actually one of the reasons I think Ferrari is in trouble. They do have the second best engine - close to Mercedes, if not quite equal. That means their problem is on the chassis/aerodynamic side, which is the side that a) they don't have any restrictions on, so if they knew what to do they'd have done it already, and b) overseen by the man who just left. McLaren on the other hand are mainly (although not only) suffering on the engine side, where the development restrictions will be significantly lifted next year and there's every reason to believe the PU will continue to improve. Their technical director did not just leave, and nothing will have interrupted their ability to take advantage of the new regulations - which they had a hand in designing.

If I was Alonso, I'd still feel I made the right gamble at this point. Obviously as an Alonso fan I'd love to have been seeing him challenge for race wins these last two years, but Ferrari aren't winning the championship this year, and I find it very hard to believe they will next year either. He hasn't lost anything, and if McLaren-Honda get it right next year, he stands to gain a great deal.

guardiangr wrote:
Alonso knew that, that's why he tried to actually stay at Ferrari when he realised his only other option was McLaren. 2017 will probably be his last year in F1 anyway if things don't improve dramatically.

Yes, because that's totally backed up by the facts...

Agreed about the second part. But that has nothing to do with whether or not they will improve.


Look I love Alonso, his stint at Ferrari was amazing even though he didn't win anything but that won't change my opinion that moving to McLaren was a terrible choice. McLaren won't win anything, his best chance was Mercedes or RBR, I think he knows that and that's why he will give up after 2017. I really wanted for him to win at least another title even though I am not his fan per se.


Last edited by guardiangr on Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:35 pm 
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guardiangr wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
guardiangr wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Ferrari were probably the best at strategy in 2012.

Right now, it seems that they are trying too hard to beat cars they simply cannot beat with odd and overly aggressive strategies instead of just doing the best job they can.

Ferrari's botched strategy at Canada ultimately cost Alonso the title.


Alonso's mistake in Japan ultimately cost him the title.


what mistake?


Not seeing Raikonnen.


I think he did see him.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:27 am 
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davidheath461 wrote:
I think he did see him.


If he did he wouldn't have clipped his front wing.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:00 am 
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Oh man, you mention Japan and davidheath461 pops up again and ignores every argument made before in this context and it starts all over again.

No david, it's not because our last discussion about this is more than half a year ago that the regulations of 2012 have suddenly changed and a driver was NOT required to leave a car's width of space.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:08 pm 
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guardiangr wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
I think he did see him.


If he did he wouldn't have clipped his front wing.


Read Alonso's post race quotes. It's clear that he did see him.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:09 pm 
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mds wrote:
Oh man, you mention Japan and davidheath461 pops up again and ignores every argument made before in this context and it starts all over again.

No david, it's not because our last discussion about this is more than half a year ago that the regulations of 2012 have suddenly changed and a driver was NOT required to leave a car's width of space.


:lol:

We saw in Barcelona this year that this rule is not quite as straight forward as it seems.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:49 am 
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davidheath461 wrote:
mds wrote:
Oh man, you mention Japan and davidheath461 pops up again and ignores every argument made before in this context and it starts all over again.

No david, it's not because our last discussion about this is more than half a year ago that the regulations of 2012 have suddenly changed and a driver was NOT required to leave a car's width of space.


:lol:

We saw in Barcelona this year that this rule is not quite as straight forward as it seems.


Well, in Barcelona this year judging was harder because of the large speed differential and the moment the overlap was there, unlike Japan '12 where it was always clear all along.

To say it in Alonso's words, "you have to leave the space, all the time you have to leave the space!".

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:09 am 
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guardiangr wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
I think he did see him.


If he did he wouldn't have clipped his front wing.
He knew Räikkönen was there (Button on the right, Räikkönen on the left), and squeezed him not once but twice. In his interview afterwards, he wondered why Räikkönen didn't lift off. It was lucky the man making the mistakes dropped out, not his victim.
He probably forgot about "leaving the space..."

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Last edited by Fiki on Sat Aug 06, 2016 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:30 pm 
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mds wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
mds wrote:
Oh man, you mention Japan and davidheath461 pops up again and ignores every argument made before in this context and it starts all over again.

No david, it's not because our last discussion about this is more than half a year ago that the regulations of 2012 have suddenly changed and a driver was NOT required to leave a car's width of space.


:lol:

We saw in Barcelona this year that this rule is not quite as straight forward as it seems.


Well, in Barcelona this year judging was harder because of the large speed differential and the moment the overlap was there, unlike Japan '12 where it was always clear all along.

To say it in Alonso's words, "you have to leave the space, all the time you have to leave the space!".


You're talking out of your backside again. Barcelona was no harder to judge than Suzuka.

What's clear is that this "rule" is not strictly enforced. Most people intelligent people can see this was a racing incident.


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