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Will Force India one day win a race?
Yes 63%  63%  [ 26 ]
No 37%  37%  [ 15 ]
Total votes : 41
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:28 am 
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Co-owner Indian billionaire Vijay Mallya may be in the press a lot right now over woes with his Kingfisher airline but, in contrast, Force India has the wind beneath its wings.

No other F1 team has improved its championship position in each of the past four years. It rose from tenth in 2008 to sixth last year and since Force India started with one of the tiniest budgets in F1 it has delivered better value for money than perhaps any other team. Indeed, just a few years ago its budget was so small that there were fears for the team's future. Those fears are long gone.

To give an indication of just how much it is punching above its weight, according to the latest available accounts, Red Bull Racing's costs came to £158.7m in 2010 whereas Force India's expenditure was less than half that at £73m. At the end of last year the team also got a £65m investment from Indian conglomerate Sahara giving even more financial fire-power to fuel its competition. Transforming Force India from a back-marker into F1's brightest rising star has taken more than just good planning, it has also required a boost in its annual budget. However, this hasn't been thrown at the team with reckless abandon as a report in the Express by Pitpass' business editor Christian Sylt reveals.

Force India's accounts to 31 December 2010 show that its revenues increased £17m to £48.5m but the additional money was not poured into the team's account by Mallya personally who owns a 42.85% stake in it. Instead, a boost in sponsorship drove the increase in the team's revenue.

The accounts show that the amount of sponsorship received from Mallya's brewing businesses and Kingfisher itself doubled to £13m. It was a brave gamble for the airline, given its financial situation, but it has paid off.

Force India's performance has accelerated over the past few years and this made it an attractive target. The team's sixth place last year was its best result since 2002 and that alone justified the boost in sponsorship as research and development expenditure on F1 cars is made the year before they race on track. Nevertheless, the team's improved race results have not translated into a profit.

Force India narrowed its net loss from £40.3m to £26.7m in 2010 as turnover increased £17m to £48.5m thanks to the sponsorship boost. This wasn't just spent on keeping the team ticking over. Bank loans were paid down by £1m, leaving a total of £8.2m outstanding, and the team invested £1.2m in new equipment. With this investment and the money from Sahara, which is at Force India's disposal this year, the team has a bright road ahead of it!

Source: Pit Pass

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:44 am 
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It's okay i guess

They still have a lot of works to equal Jordan...

Jordan didnt had multi bilionare behind them...yet they scored 2 wins/1 pole iirc and finished 1999 seson on 3rd place in constructors..


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:47 am 
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I think Force India are doing a good job, I do expect to see them win a race but whether they can hit the heights that Jordan did in 1999, challenging for the championships, or whether they will be like Stewart, which did a good job in 1999 with a single race win, is another matter.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:49 am 
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To be fair it was a different environment that Jordan was operating in (even as recently as the late 90s) but nonetheless they did do extraordinarily well considering their budget constraints.
For further insight I can highly recommend Eddie's autobiography 'An Independant Man', it's an entertaining read with some very interesting insight into how the background of the sport works.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:51 am 
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Ysmalari wrote:
To be fair it was a different environment that Jordan was operating in (even as recently as the late 90s) but nonetheless they did do extraordinarily well considering their budget constraints.
For further insight I can highly recommend Eddie's autobiography 'An Independant Man', it's an entertaining read with some very interesting insight into how the background of the sport works.


Yes..

But back in those days was even harder to archive something with team as Jordan..

Team budgets were unlimited...there wasn't any budget restrictions...it was extremely difficult to cope with teams like Williams,Ferrari and Mclaren..


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:56 am 
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As the team have said, it's now all down to the owners to decide what they want to do: double or treble their investment and go after the big boys, or stay ticking over in the midfield. Red Bull may appear to have spent 158 million but that doesn't cover the design of the car, which is 'outsourced' to Red Bull Technologies to get around the resource restriction agreement.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:10 am 
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It's step is right direction, but their budget is still nowhere near Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes or Red Bull.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:10 am 
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The accounts show that the amount of sponsorship received from Mallya's brewing businesses and Kingfisher itself doubled to £13m. It was a brave gamble for the airline, given its financial situation, but it has paid off.


How did this pay off for Kingfisher its basically broke, so Mallaya spent money they couldn't afford on his race team.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:01 pm 
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Aduka wrote:
Ysmalari wrote:
To be fair it was a different environment that Jordan was operating in (even as recently as the late 90s) but nonetheless they did do extraordinarily well considering their budget constraints.
For further insight I can highly recommend Eddie's autobiography 'An Independant Man', it's an entertaining read with some very interesting insight into how the background of the sport works.


Yes..

But back in those days was even harder to archive something with team as Jordan..

Team budgets were unlimited...there wasn't any budget restrictions...it was extremely difficult to cope with teams like Williams,Ferrari and Mclaren..


Absolutely there was still difficulty in actually gathering a decent budget (in fact EJ admits in his book that for the first few years if the team failed it would bankrupt him and he'd lose his family home!), but in my view it can be argued that there was more sponsorship available throughout the grid through tobacco advertising and the advertising market itself was much more willing to pump money into motorsport than perhaps now.

The other main difference to the current era is reliability - we regularly see the same four or five teams taking all the points as there are no engine or other mechanical failures anymore. Back in the 90s before the engine number per season restrictions there would often be multiple cars blowing up before the end of the race which gave the smaller teams a much better chance of occasionally scoring points.

There was also the tyre-war situation going on which meant that every now and then a circuit would come up that was better suited to some teams than others.

Don't get me wrong the Jordan team punched well above their weight for many years and much of that was down to EJ's enthusiastic leadership of some very talented people, some of whom have become part of the F1 establishment these days, I do think though that it has actually become harder for smaller teams to get any where near to the front of the pack in recent years.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:22 pm 
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dizlexik wrote:
It's step is right direction, but their budget is still nowhere near Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes or Red Bull.


That's true for sure! However, It's real admirable that how Force India have grown since 2008! Inspite of the tightness of this years grid, I'm expecting Force India to shine bright & raise a few eye brows! A good investment always helps in the development & considering how tight the midfield is, it's always good to get a pus from your sponsors!

All the best Force India!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:52 pm 
Force India have done a wonderful job so far, and have done very well based on their budget. The problem is that if they wish to fight at the next level, they have to spend a lot more money. If it took £73m to finish 6th in the manufacturer's standings, it will cost at least £100m to compete against the likes of Ferrari, Mercedes, and Lotus. They can keep their budget at the same level as in 2011, but expect to be the 6th best team, or get permission from the board to budget lots more money to run with the big boys.

Force India are getting results that reflect their budget, and doing a very good job. That's encouraging, because based on that, IF they spend more, Force India can expect to play with the big dogs.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:55 pm 
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A little off topic but what do teams win when they come first in championships and races etc?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:17 pm 
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I think Force India have done really well by improving slowly instead of looking for a large takeover to push them up the grid rapidly. I do worry about the struggles of Kingfisher and hope that this does not effect the team in the future.
I'm not sure if they can improve again this season unless Ferrari, Mercedes or Lotus have a real bad season which, at the moment, looks unlikely.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:25 pm 
bailey. wrote:
A little off topic but what do teams win when they come first in championships and races etc?


Along with the prestige, lots and lots of money. At the conclusion of the season Bernie awards each team money based on their points, and we are talking a big chunk of change. I don't have the exact numbers at hand, but it's somewhere between 85 and 100 million to the winning team.

That is a direct payment, and does not include the perks such as being an attraction to big sponsors, and being able to install the plaque in their cars stating they won the manufacturer's title. Ferrari use this to enhance the appeal of their cars to select buyers. For instance, when Alonso won Silverstone last year, it also marked 60 years in Formula One. Ferrari immediately put on the market a special edition car celebrating this occasion.

Quote:
Scuderia Ferrari is the only team that has been present in Formula 1 since its conception in 1950. On July 14 1951, it scored its first-ever F1 victory at the British Grand Prix held at Silverstone with a 375 F1 driven by Froilan Gonzalez.

Six decades later, on July 10 2011, Fernando Alonso won Ferrari’s sole Grand Prix in the 2011 F1 season. To celebrate the event, Ferrari has launched the “60 Years of Victories in Formula 1” [60F1] package for the 599 GTB Fiorano equipped with the HGTE handling package.

Clients who opt for this special edition of the 599 can choose from a list of exterior and interior modifications that are part of Ferrari’s Tailor-Made program, which was launched today in Maranello by Ferrari CEO Luca di Montezemolo and creative consultant for the Tailor-Made program, Lapo Elkan.

The bodywork of the 60F1 is available in three liveries. The first one is the 375 F1, which is the same darker red color used by the Scuderia for its first F1 cars. The second is the Ferrari 150o Italia, inspired by this year’s F1 car with white strips on the front bumper, mudguards, A-posts and buttresses, and the colors of the Italian flag painted on the rear. The third model is the 150o Italia 2, which is almost identical to the previous scheme but without most of the white-painted parts.

All three versions get the Scuderia Ferrari shield on the front wheel arches painted as in the competition cars, 20-inch diamond-finish forged alloy wheels and a satin-finish aluminum fuel cap.

The interior gets seats made by Sabelt in the European version and Recaro in the North American model upholstered in Alcantara (like the rest of the cabin), with extra-grip Superfabric material in areas that come in greatest contact with the driver’s body, the Scuderia Shield stitched on the headrests and red and blue four-point safety belts.

The 599’s dashboard is trimmed in a new light and durable material named Alutex that is made from metallic fibers and fiberglass, and has a matte finish to prevent glare.

Finally, a special silver plaque that commemorates the 60 years of Scuderia Ferrari wins in Formula 1 and features the signatures of both Froilan Gonzalez and Fernando Alonso decorates the dashboard.

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2011/12/fe ... rmula.html

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:01 pm 
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I like Force India, I've heard about the airline for a while now. I was quite worried when he asked the Indian government to help him and they refused. I just hope he has enough cash in the bank to contiune funding the team, since 2009 they just seem serious about F1 and I really admire them for it.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:08 am 
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Good guys using the tech and processes they get from McLaren superbly.

Two, more than good drivers, Hulk with something to prove and Di Resta wanting to build on his rookie year.... all good.

BUT

Without his airline not getting the government support he was hoping for the debt may bring down the whole group or at least force it into somebody else's hand.

VJ loves F1 as it allows him to be the centre of attention, no issues with that, it's his personality type. But the Sahara guy that's trying to position himself to pick up the pieces should the group fail by all accounts has no idea or interest in F1.

Not a big VJ fan here but fingers crossed the team has the money and does well this year.... I worry for their future.


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