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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:41 pm 
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I know someone woke up/was back to penalize Nasr, but other than that... Nothing?
Max was driving like a F3 driver, people were leaving the track, drivers racing in pitlane etc. Should we have stewards watching over stewards?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:57 pm 
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Mr-E wrote:
I know someone woke up/was back to penalize Nasr, but other than that... Nothing?
Max was driving like a F3 driver, people were leaving the track, drivers racing in pitlane etc. Should we have stewards watching over stewards?


Today's race was a fine example of inconsistent stewardship!

On a regular racing day, Verstappen would've gotten a penalty for sure when he made a 2nd block on Vettel on Kemmel Straight.

I thought because a lot of Dutch fans had come to see max today, he got off leniently. Maybe the stewards are partial towards him as he brings a lot of life into the race with his daring moves.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:11 pm 
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There was nothing wrong with Alonso's release, he kept out of Hülkenberg's way in the pit lane.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:08 pm 
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Don't worry, at some point Max will clash with Lewis. I just hope there won't be a major accident.

After that, Lewis knows hot to get media/fans hyped up so that Max will understand that ALL the other drivers can do what he does, but it can really cause huge shunts.

I really hate the approach Lewis takes to get others into the media attention, but it will be necessary for that to happen so that Max calms down a bit.

I just really hope there won't be a major shunt in the meantime.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:13 pm 
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I'm very anti-penalty but what I do want to see is consistency. If they must dish them out then please be consistent. Max's dodgy driving needs to be dealt with before he hurts someone else

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:22 pm 
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GingerFurball wrote:
There was nothing wrong with Alonso's release, he kept out of Hülkenberg's way in the pit lane.

Alonso hit Hulkneberg in pit lane. It as visible only from one camera. Huk confirmed it on radio. Hit wasn't big, tough. But Hulk was hit.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:28 pm 
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paul_gmb wrote:
Don't worry, at some point Max will clash with Lewis. I just hope there won't be a major accident.

After that, Lewis knows hot to get media/fans hyped up so that Max will understand that ALL the other drivers can do what he does, but it can really cause huge shunts.

I really hate the approach Lewis takes to get others into the media attention, but it will be necessary for that to happen so that Max calms down a bit.

I just really hope there won't be a major shunt in the meantime.

In what way has Lewis "gotten others into the media attention"? What does that even mean?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:53 pm 
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One day another driver is just going to "not try too hard" to avoid the collision. It's OK now when max isn't fighting for anything but when he's fighting for titles it's going to become an issue. Raikkonen should of punted him off in all honesty.

However if the stewards are happy with his approach they just need to say that and then every one else can crack one with them same moves


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:53 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
paul_gmb wrote:
Don't worry, at some point Max will clash with Lewis. I just hope there won't be a major accident.

After that, Lewis knows hot to get media/fans hyped up so that Max will understand that ALL the other drivers can do what he does, but it can really cause huge shunts.

I really hate the approach Lewis takes to get others into the media attention, but it will be necessary for that to happen so that Max calms down a bit.

I just really hope there won't be a major shunt in the meantime.

In what way has Lewis "gotten others into the media attention"? What does that even mean?


it's called "politics" of the sport. Lewis and his management team are better at managing it than others. It's not something negative at all. Racing in F1 is not only what you do on track.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:57 pm 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N34GYfpGBIw

I think they are waiting for a disaster to happen. In Hungary and now in this race twice Kimi avoided hitting him. If he keeps driving like this sooner or later it will happen.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:02 pm 
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paul_gmb wrote:
Don't worry, at some point Max will clash with Lewis. I just hope there won't be a major accident.

After that, Lewis knows hot to get media/fans hyped up so that Max will understand that ALL the other drivers can do what he does, but it can really cause huge shunts.

I really hate the approach Lewis takes to get others into the media attention, but it will be necessary for that to happen so that Max calms down a bit.

I just really hope there won't be a major shunt in the meantime.


can you give an example of when he did this


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:06 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
I'm very anti-penalty but what I do want to see is consistency. If they must dish them out then please be consistent. Max's dodgy driving needs to be dealt with before he hurts someone else

You can't brake test a driver on a straight by swerving all over the place. It's ridiculous that Verstappen didn't even come under investigation today at any point today, causing a collision at turn 1, weaving on the Kemmel straight and punting Raikkonen and Perez off the track at Les Combes.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:09 pm 
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lucifers wrote:
paul_gmb wrote:
Don't worry, at some point Max will clash with Lewis. I just hope there won't be a major accident.

After that, Lewis knows hot to get media/fans hyped up so that Max will understand that ALL the other drivers can do what he does, but it can really cause huge shunts.

I really hate the approach Lewis takes to get others into the media attention, but it will be necessary for that to happen so that Max calms down a bit.

I just really hope there won't be a major shunt in the meantime.


can you give an example of when he did this


it's the approach he takes to unfavorable events and sometimes favorable events. Seeking clarifications in Hungary, clearly knowing everything behind the resolution. He knew there was nothing practical to gain, but it's getting media hyped up on events that really don't need further clarifications. This is standard PR practice taught in any media and PR college.

i'm sorry for the off topic, just my 2 cents that stewards are also influenced by this when judging behaviours, in gray incidents.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:12 pm 
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Mercedes-Benz wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N34GYfpGBIw

I think they are waiting for a disaster to happen. In Hungary and now in this race twice Kimi avoided hitting him. If he keeps driving like this sooner or later it will happen.


First, he needs to man up and take responsibility for his actions, which he isn't. I know he is not the first driver to not take responsibility when they mess up, but it truly seems in his mind he can't do anything wrong.
Then he needs to "use his brain" as Lauda said to RTL. It's not his rookie year.
As for the stewards, they should be the last people to jump on the Max hype-train. Also consistency!!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:13 pm 
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Here's the Chief Steward this evening.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:16 pm 
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My feelings are the other way. It should all be like today. Stewards should only step in for the most extreme offences, the rest is racing.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:21 pm 
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Oh please. We don't need stewards neutering every single race. There was nothing wrong today. I suggest you start watching field hockey if today was too much for you.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:25 pm 
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I love hard racing, but pulling out in the pit lane next to another car puts mechanics at risk, fact. This is not needed. Either pit lanes have to have two dedicated lanes, like they do in a lot of American racing, or they have to be single file, no matter how good it may look.

As for Max, I'm all for defending, but at 180mph, blocking at the last millisecond is incredibly dangerous and unnecessary.

Today's race was full of action without driving in a dangerous manner.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:32 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
I love hard racing, but pulling out in the pit lane next to another car puts mechanics at risk, fact. This is not needed. Either pit lanes have to have two dedicated lanes, like they do in a lot of American racing, or they have to be single file, no matter how good it may look.

As for Max, I'm all for defending, but at 180mph, blocking at the last millisecond is incredibly dangerous and unnecessary.

Today's race was full of action without driving in a dangerous manner.


Driving side by side in a pitlane is allowed and if a driver can't do that, he probably should find a job as a gardener. Hulkenberg was also OK with it.

As for Max, it's the driver's job to make sure he reacts to what's around him, just like KR showed by braking on the straight. No harm, no foul. We have already emasculated overtaking by DRS, now you can't even defend properly. Might as well just start showing blue flags to leader to put the final ribbon on this mockery of the sport.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:36 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
I love hard racing, but pulling out in the pit lane next to another car puts mechanics at risk, fact. This is not needed. Either pit lanes have to have two dedicated lanes, like they do in a lot of American racing, or they have to be single file, no matter how good it may look.

As for Max, I'm all for defending, but at 180mph, blocking at the last millisecond is incredibly dangerous and unnecessary.

Today's race was full of action without driving in a dangerous manner.


Driving side by side in a pitlane is allowed and if a driver can't do that, he probably should find a job as a gardener. Hulkenberg was also OK with it.

As for Max, it's the driver's job to make sure he reacts to what's around him, just like KR showed by braking on the straight. No harm, no foul. We have already emasculated overtaking by DRS, now you can't even defend properly. Might as well just start showing blue flags to leader to put the final ribbon on this mockery of the sport.


that's a bit of extreme judgement. i think everyone shares your thoughts and is not in favor of policing.

in this case I think people are just worried a major shunt might happen before max calms down.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:39 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
I love hard racing, but pulling out in the pit lane next to another car puts mechanics at risk, fact. This is not needed. Either pit lanes have to have two dedicated lanes, like they do in a lot of American racing, or they have to be single file, no matter how good it may look.

As for Max, I'm all for defending, but at 180mph, blocking at the last millisecond is incredibly dangerous and unnecessary.

Today's race was full of action without driving in a dangerous manner.


Driving side by side in a pitlane is allowed and if a driver can't do that, he probably should find a job as a gardener. Hulkenberg was also OK with it.

As for Max, it's the driver's job to make sure he reacts to what's around him, just like KR showed by braking on the straight. No harm, no foul. We have already emasculated overtaking by DRS, now you can't even defend properly. Might as well just start showing blue flags to leader to put the final ribbon on this mockery of the sport.

Swerving late across someone at over 180mph isn't 'defending properly', it's dangerous driving.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:40 pm 
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You can make a change of line to defend, but I'm pretty sure that moving across as a quick blocking move has been frowned upon for many many years. That's not taking a defensive line, that's blocking. The fact Kimi had to brake says it all. It's not like Kimi simply then had to go the other side, he had to slow so much that his chance had gone. I can't imagine the result of him rear ending Max, especially as Max would probably have had some right hand input in the steering wheel. He would have spun off incredibly badly with Kimi following him.

If you can block like that, you may as well take a central line down the straight from the beginning and as a car is about to come alongside on whichever side, you simply jink out forcing them to brake. That would be crazy.

The fact that DRS exists, something I have often said I hate, does not change the driving techniques that should be allowed.

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Last edited by Asphalt_World on Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:53 pm 
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paul_gmb wrote:
lucifers wrote:
paul_gmb wrote:
Don't worry, at some point Max will clash with Lewis. I just hope there won't be a major accident.

After that, Lewis knows hot to get media/fans hyped up so that Max will understand that ALL the other drivers can do what he does, but it can really cause huge shunts.

I really hate the approach Lewis takes to get others into the media attention, but it will be necessary for that to happen so that Max calms down a bit.

I just really hope there won't be a major shunt in the meantime.


can you give an example of when he did this


it's the approach he takes to unfavorable events and sometimes favorable events. Seeking clarifications in Hungary, clearly knowing everything behind the resolution. He knew there was nothing practical to gain, but it's getting media hyped up on events that really don't need further clarifications. This is standard PR practice taught in any media and PR college.

i'm sorry for the off topic, just my 2 cents that stewards are also influenced by this when judging behaviours, in gray incidents.


Re Hungary there was something practical to gain. Clarification on interpretation of "be prepared to stop"

Since then Charlie has confirmed a new approach in the future ie. Red flag.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:53 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
You can make a change of line to defend, but I'm pretty sure that moving across as a quick blocking move has been frowned upon for many many years. That's not taking a defensive line, that's blocking. The fact Kimi had to brake says it all. It's not like Kimi simply then had to go the other side, he had to slow so much that his chance had gone. I can't imagine the result of him rear ending Max, especially as Max would probably have had some right hand input in the steering wheel. He would have spun off incredibly badly with Kimi following him.

If you can block like that, you may as well take a central line down the straight from the beginning and as a car is about to come alongside on whichever side, you simply jink out forcing them to brake. That would be crazy.

The fact that DRS, something I have often said I hate, does not change the driving techniques that should be allowed.

:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:58 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
There was nothing wrong with Alonso's release, he kept out of Hülkenberg's way in the pit lane.
Alonso hit Hulkneberg in pit lane. It as visible only from one camera. Huk confirmed it on radio. Hit wasn't big, tough. But Hulk was hit.
I think you're incorrect

The collision occurred after the white line marking the end of the pit lane, the fact that the pit lane at Spa has a 40mph 90deg right hander immediately after the white line doesn't mean it's not part of the race track.

On Verstappen, someone needs to take him behind the bike sheds and explain...

before he puts himself and/or worse, a driver trying to overtake him, in hospital. In my view he is 100% typical of the new generation of young drivers who consider intimidating other drivers a legitimate on track tactic

think of it as the Senna/Schumacher legacy in action


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:42 pm 
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The stewards weren't bad today..... just completely in keeping with what's been said recently


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:14 pm 
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Battle Far wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
There was nothing wrong with Alonso's release, he kept out of Hülkenberg's way in the pit lane.
Alonso hit Hulkneberg in pit lane. It as visible only from one camera. Huk confirmed it on radio. Hit wasn't big, tough. But Hulk was hit.
I think you're incorrect

The collision occurred after the white line marking the end of the pit lane, the fact that the pit lane at Spa has a 40mph 90deg right hander immediately after the white line doesn't mean it's not part of the race track.

On Verstappen, someone needs to take him behind the bike sheds and explain...

before he puts himself and/or worse, a driver trying to overtake him, in hospital. In my view he is 100% typical of the new generation of young drivers who consider intimidating other drivers a legitimate on track tactic

think of it as the Senna/Schumacher legacy in action

Yes, technically you are right, it really was not a pit lane, it was after the line. But the contact came to play because Alonso was half alongside due to driving next to him. It should not happen anyway, contact, I mean.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:21 pm 
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Unfortunately, F1 is calling for another fatality. Verstappen's driving, again, was way off any responsibility. But he seems to bebeyond the rules ...


Last edited by Paolo_Lasardi on Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:21 pm 
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Battle Far wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
There was nothing wrong with Alonso's release, he kept out of Hülkenberg's way in the pit lane.
Alonso hit Hulkneberg in pit lane. It as visible only from one camera. Huk confirmed it on radio. Hit wasn't big, tough. But Hulk was hit.
I think you're incorrect

The collision occurred after the white line marking the end of the pit lane, the fact that the pit lane at Spa has a 40mph 90deg right hander immediately after the white line doesn't mean it's not part of the race track.

On Verstappen, someone needs to take him behind the bike sheds and explain...

before he puts himself and/or worse, a driver trying to overtake him, in hospital. In my view he is 100% typical of the new generation of young drivers who consider intimidating other drivers a legitimate on track tactic

think of it as the Senna/Schumacher legacy in action



Its what I call the F9 mind set. Game over you are dead. F9 to continue.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:30 pm 
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I can't see the consistency in letting Alonso get away with what was CLEARLY an unsafe release. So now next time someone gets a penalty for unsafe release surely they will point to Alonso at Spa and say 'how come that was okay then?'.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:33 pm 
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It wasn't an unsafe release though.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:30 pm 
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GingerFurball wrote:
It wasn't an unsafe release though.


I would say yes.

FIA regulations 2016

28) PIT ENTRY, PIT LANE AND PIT EXIT
28.1 The section of track between the first safety car line and the beginning of the pit lane will be
designated the “pit entry”.
28.2 The section of track between the end of the pit lane and the second safety car line will be
designated the “pit exit”.
28.3 At no time may a car be reversed in the pit lane under its own power.
28.4 The pit lane will be divided into two lanes, the lane closest to the pit wall will be designated
the "fast lane" and may be no more than 3.5 metres wide, the lane closest to the garages will
be designated the "inner lane".
Other than when cars are at the end of the pit lane under Articles 36.2 and 41, the inner lane
is the only area where any work can be carried out on a car. However, no work may be carried
out in the fast lane if it is likely to hinder other cars attempting to leave the pit lane.

This clearly states that the pit is split in to 2 lanes. The fast lane, near the pit wall is clearly for driving up and down the pit lane. The 'Inner lane' is stated as the lane where cars are worked on. Therefore, Alonso was not in the 'Fast Lane' as shown by the while lines on the track. There has been a 'no mans land' between the 2 lanes for a number of years. This, as far as I am aware, was brought in to give room between the two lanes. This means a member of the pit crew is not inches away from the fast lane and therefore safe. If a driver goes down the pit road in this middle section he is very close to the other pit crews. This is not allowed.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:33 pm 
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The only steward that came back from holiday somehow thought that Kimi had to redress to Verstappen after he got run off the road after entering the corner ahead. Incredible.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:04 pm 
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I'm not sure there was a single case of actual steward action during the entire race, since I think Nasr's penalty was an automatic one for exceeding track limits -- although I can't recall for sure whether it was at a turn with the sensors or not. There were a whole slew of incidents that ought to have been investigated, even if no action was taking in the end. The turn one incident would almost certainly have ended up with a racing incident verdict, but it ought to have been looked at. The several times Verstappen moved across on the straight or ran somebody off definitely should have been investigated (and, in my opinion, penalised; but at the least they should have been looked at). Alonso's release should have been looked at as well, regardless of the decision they ended up making. Then there was Wehrlein hitting Button, and that's all just off the top of my head.

Asphalt_World wrote:
You can make a change of line to defend, but I'm pretty sure that moving across as a quick blocking move has been frowned upon for many many years. That's not taking a defensive line, that's blocking. The fact Kimi had to brake says it all. It's not like Kimi simply then had to go the other side, he had to slow so much that his chance had gone. I can't imagine the result of him rear ending Max, especially as Max would probably have had some right hand input in the steering wheel. He would have spun off incredibly badly with Kimi following him.

If you can block like that, you may as well take a central line down the straight from the beginning and as a car is about to come alongside on whichever side, you simply jink out forcing them to brake. That would be crazy.

The fact that DRS exists, something I have often said I hate, does not change the driving techniques that should be allowed.

Indeed. :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:04 am 
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Remmirath wrote:
I'm not sure there was a single case of actual steward action during the entire race, since I think Nasr's penalty was an automatic one for exceeding track limits -- although I can't recall for sure whether it was at a turn with the sensors or not. There were a whole slew of incidents that ought to have been investigated, even if no action was taking in the end. The turn one incident would almost certainly have ended up with a racing incident verdict, but it ought to have been looked at. The several times Verstappen moved across on the straight or ran somebody off definitely should have been investigated (and, in my opinion, penalised; but at the least they should have been looked at). Alonso's release should have been looked at as well, regardless of the decision they ended up making. Then there was Wehrlein hitting Button, and that's all just off the top of my head.

Asphalt_World wrote:
You can make a change of line to defend, but I'm pretty sure that moving across as a quick blocking move has been frowned upon for many many years. That's not taking a defensive line, that's blocking. The fact Kimi had to brake says it all. It's not like Kimi simply then had to go the other side, he had to slow so much that his chance had gone. I can't imagine the result of him rear ending Max, especially as Max would probably have had some right hand input in the steering wheel. He would have spun off incredibly badly with Kimi following him.

If you can block like that, you may as well take a central line down the straight from the beginning and as a car is about to come alongside on whichever side, you simply jink out forcing them to brake. That would be crazy.

The fact that DRS exists, something I have often said I hate, does not change the driving techniques that should be allowed.

Indeed. :thumbup:

I agree entirely.

Inconsistent stewarding is always annoying, but they took it to a new level this weekend :-(( .


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:19 am 
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Why not just let those boys fight and 'kill' each other on track themselves? For any incident that happens, let the stewards investigate it after the race, whoever found guilty will receive penalty on the following race (if it happens in the final race of the season, then just cut the championship point).

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:40 am 
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2fast wrote:
Why not just let those boys fight and 'kill' each other on track themselves? For any incident that happens, let the stewards investigate it after the race, whoever found guilty will receive penalty on the following race (if it happens in the final race of the season, then just cut the championship point).

Because the stewards are supposed to ensure that all drivers drive by the same rules?

I get your point though - but its down to the FIA to either get rid of some rules or make sure the stewards enforce them.

At the moment the rules are in place and the stewards sometimes enforce them, and sometimes don't. This is unfair on the drivers that pretty much always obey the rules, as it gives an advantage to those drivers that 'get away with it'.

I'm sure the FIA can afford to pay a permanent stewarding panel to follow the races - and that there isn't a shortage of knowledgeable people (including ex-F1 drivers) that would be happy to take up the job offer. So why isn't it happening??


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:46 pm 
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lucifers wrote:
paul_gmb wrote:
Don't worry, at some point Max will clash with Lewis. I just hope there won't be a major accident.

After that, Lewis knows hot to get media/fans hyped up so that Max will understand that ALL the other drivers can do what he does, but it can really cause huge shunts.

I really hate the approach Lewis takes to get others into the media attention, but it will be necessary for that to happen so that Max calms down a bit.

I just really hope there won't be a major shunt in the meantime.


can you give an example of when he did this


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:20 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
You can make a change of line to defend, but I'm pretty sure that moving across as a quick blocking move has been frowned upon for many many years. That's not taking a defensive line, that's blocking. The fact Kimi had to brake says it all. It's not like Kimi simply then had to go the other side, he had to slow so much that his chance had gone. I can't imagine the result of him rear ending Max, especially as Max would probably have had some right hand input in the steering wheel. He would have spun off incredibly badly with Kimi following him.

If you can block like that, you may as well take a central line down the straight from the beginning and as a car is about to come alongside on whichever side, you simply jink out forcing them to brake. That would be crazy.

The fact that DRS exists, something I have often said I hate, does not change the driving techniques that should be allowed.


Moving off the racing line would be considered the one move, regardless of when on the straight it's done, even on the exit of the corner, so such a scenario is not possible.


I want to add that DRS does change the driving techniques required, mostly when it comes to defending. In the pre-DRS days, Verstappen's move would've been hard but fair, and Kimi would've coped with it since his closing speed would not have been dramatically higher than normal due to the double whammy of the slipstream and the DRS. That old-school style of defending, the kind that endeared me to Schumacher, just isn't possible these days. The dramatic speed difference caused by DRS means the defensive maneuver has to be done much earlier than before, which makes it less effective, and also boring to watch.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:36 pm 
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Anyone saying that Verstappen moved to late but claimed Rosberg's move over in Spain was fine?


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