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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:26 pm 
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After weeks of speculation, the deal has been consummated, and Valtteri Bottas has signed with Mercedes AMG Petronas.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:31 pm 
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Hope he's good enough to keep Hamilton grounded!
Question is that is he the no. 2 driver or can he fight for wins with Hamilton with obvious risks involved?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:41 pm 
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LOLOL Consummated!

Love that. Good to finally put this to bed… or as you said. :lol:

I watched the inauguration speech so to speak, but it looked and felt a bit awkward there on the stairs and then Wolff unnecessarily speaks about primadonna syndrome as if to suggest a certain one of his driver(s). Kind of what I expect from him at this point to be honest, but it's also serves as a reminder that I still wonder how on earth he weaseled his way into that team at such a high position.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP10AyKFoGk#t=37


Congrats to Bottas and I look forward to seeing how he matches up with his teammate!

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HAMILTON :: VERSTAPPEN :: LECLERC :: BOTTAS :: VETTEL :: SAINZ :: NORRIS
KVYAT :: RAIKKONEN :: RUSSEL :: ALBON :: RICCIARDO :: HULKENBURG :: PEREZ
STROLL :: MAGNUSSEN :: GROSJEAN :: GASLY :: GIOVANAZZI :: KUBICA


Last edited by F1 MERCENARY on Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:41 pm 
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Double post - site errored out.

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KVYAT :: RAIKKONEN :: RUSSEL :: ALBON :: RICCIARDO :: HULKENBURG :: PEREZ
STROLL :: MAGNUSSEN :: GROSJEAN :: GASLY :: GIOVANAZZI :: KUBICA


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:25 pm 
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Hamilton will destroy him, unless they (toto) destroy Hamiltons car...

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:47 pm 
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Great news for Bottas, dream chance to make an impact at the sharp end. Only a one year deal with options though apparently.

Mercedes keeping their options open for the 2018 driver market frenzy with Vettel and Alonso available for nothing it looks like.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:40 pm 
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I wouldn't say "for nothing". Both those guys will incur a salary upwards of $20 Million or so.
Either way, Bottas better impress or he's out.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:26 pm 
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dabi wrote:
Hamilton will destroy him, unless they (toto) destroy Hamiltons car...


Please, let's not roll out the sabotage theory.

Botta knows that after many years in racing, this is finally his big chance to join the ranks of other famous Finnish drivers.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:34 pm 
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Congratulations to him, it's a dream situation for this sympathetic guy, the one that Nico Rosberg used fro his own good to get a WDC crown, which I equally wish to Bottas as well. Roar that engine!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:22 pm 
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Good for him. I hope he wins some races :)

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:26 pm 
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This is a golden opportunity. Hopefully he will make the most of it. I must admit to being somewhat underwhelmed by the new Mercedes driver. I was hoping for a more interesting teammate battle. Teammate matchups are the most interesting thing in F1. Perhaps Bottas will surprise us all.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:52 pm 
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Of all the options available to Mercedes, he's the 'safest'. Alonso would have been interesting but nowhere near as bad as 2007. Werhlein is unproven and probably would've caused more headaches than Rosberg ever did.

At the very least, Merc now have a relatively strong driver line-up, although not as strong as RBR. I don't expect Bottas to be a 'after you, Lewis' driver, but he'll perform solidly for the team. A few wins will suffice.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:00 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
I wouldn't say "for nothing". Both those guys will incur a salary upwards of $20 Million or so.
Either way, Bottas better impress or he's out.


I just meant no fee needs paying to another team as they're out of contract. It's going to be a mad silly season with Vettel,Alonso,Sainz,Perez,Raikkonen and Bottas(If Mercedes don't exercise the option to extend) all seemingly available at the end of the year.

Very interesting.


.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:58 pm 
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Congrats to valterri. I think he will do well. Do i think he will beat lewis? No. but he will not embarrass himself. That im sure of.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:44 am 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
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Someone should probably tell him that's not how you sit in an F1 car.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:20 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
This is a golden opportunity. Hopefully he will make the most of it. I must admit to being somewhat underwhelmed by the new Mercedes driver. I was hoping for a more interesting teammate battle. Teammate matchups are the most interesting thing in F1. Perhaps Bottas will surprise us all.

Bottas is 4 and 0 against teammates so has an undefeated record thus far.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:26 am 
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MistaVega23 wrote:
Of all the options available to Mercedes, he's the 'safest'. Alonso would have been interesting but nowhere near as bad as 2007. Werhlein is unproven and probably would've caused more headaches than Rosberg ever did.

At the very least, Merc now have a relatively strong driver line-up, although not as strong as RBR. I don't expect Bottas to be a 'after you, Lewis' driver, but he'll perform solidly for the team. A few wins will suffice.

Alonso was never an option also I've heard it again that Alonso is not liked amongst the head honchos at Mercedes after what happened in 2007 so may be unlikely to find his way there in 2018.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:01 am 
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pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
This is a golden opportunity. Hopefully he will make the most of it. I must admit to being somewhat underwhelmed by the new Mercedes driver. I was hoping for a more interesting teammate battle. Teammate matchups are the most interesting thing in F1. Perhaps Bottas will surprise us all.

Bottas is 4 and 0 against teammates so has an undefeated record thus far.


It was easy for him with Maldonado & Massa as teammates!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:34 am 
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It is difficult to imagine that Bottas wont be pretty damn quick once he adjusts to the Merc team and car - I'm kinda hopeful that he will match Hamilton quickly and thus create some interest as per Ham vs Ros. Of course, the new rule changes etc may make it all closer and mix up the field a bit, so it is certainly no guarantee that Merc will be front runners on their own again, and that might make it harder for Bottas to come to the fore (and beat Ham)? Will just have to wait and see!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:49 am 
Congratulations to him. I hope he will do well. :thumbup:
My guess is that he will prove to be a rather good choice and closer to Hamilton than people might expect.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:53 am 
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dabi wrote:
Hamilton will destroy him, unless they (toto) destroy Hamiltons car...

Like the team did in 2016 for example..


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:58 am 
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MistaVega23 wrote:
Of all the options available to Mercedes, he's the 'safest'. Alonso would have been interesting but nowhere near as bad as 2007. Werhlein is unproven and probably would've caused more headaches than Rosberg ever did.

At the very least, Merc now have a relatively strong driver line-up, although not as strong as RBR. I don't expect Bottas to be a 'after you, Lewis' driver, but he'll perform solidly for the team. A few wins will suffice.

Mercedes don't want Alonso considered his "sabotaging" history and Alonso is not that good some try to make him to be. Alonso is not in Hamilton's league when driving in the rain and that's the moment great ones are separated from the good ones.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:40 pm 
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Henri Royce wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
Of all the options available to Mercedes, he's the 'safest'. Alonso would have been interesting but nowhere near as bad as 2007. Werhlein is unproven and probably would've caused more headaches than Rosberg ever did.

At the very least, Merc now have a relatively strong driver line-up, although not as strong as RBR. I don't expect Bottas to be a 'after you, Lewis' driver, but he'll perform solidly for the team. A few wins will suffice.

Mercedes don't want Alonso considered his "sabotaging" history and Alonso is not that good some try to make him to be. Alonso is not in Hamilton's league when driving in the rain and that's the moment great ones are separated from the good ones.


Unfortunately Alonso is better in the dry, and as almost all the races are run in dry conditions...


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:15 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
This is a golden opportunity. Hopefully he will make the most of it. I must admit to being somewhat underwhelmed by the new Mercedes driver. I was hoping for a more interesting teammate battle. Teammate matchups are the most interesting thing in F1. Perhaps Bottas will surprise us all.

Bottas is 4 and 0 against teammates so has an undefeated record thus far.


It was easy for him with Maldonado & Massa as teammates!

That's an argument you could use against some other drivers as well like who has Vettel beat?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:33 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Henri Royce wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
Of all the options available to Mercedes, he's the 'safest'. Alonso would have been interesting but nowhere near as bad as 2007. Werhlein is unproven and probably would've caused more headaches than Rosberg ever did.

At the very least, Merc now have a relatively strong driver line-up, although not as strong as RBR. I don't expect Bottas to be a 'after you, Lewis' driver, but he'll perform solidly for the team. A few wins will suffice.

Mercedes don't want Alonso considered his "sabotaging" history and Alonso is not that good some try to make him to be. Alonso is not in Hamilton's league when driving in the rain and that's the moment great ones are separated from the good ones.


Unfortunately Alonso is better in the dry, and as almost all the races are run in dry conditions...

Yes like he was in 2007 against a rookie?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:35 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
This is a golden opportunity. Hopefully he will make the most of it. I must admit to being somewhat underwhelmed by the new Mercedes driver. I was hoping for a more interesting teammate battle. Teammate matchups are the most interesting thing in F1. Perhaps Bottas will surprise us all.

Bottas is 4 and 0 against teammates so has an undefeated record thus far.


It was easy for him with Maldonado & Massa as teammates!

That's an argument you could use against some other drivers as well like who has Vettel beat?


A former champion and another multiple race winner. Both on multiple occasions and very comfortably.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:38 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Henri Royce wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
Of all the options available to Mercedes, he's the 'safest'. Alonso would have been interesting but nowhere near as bad as 2007. Werhlein is unproven and probably would've caused more headaches than Rosberg ever did.

At the very least, Merc now have a relatively strong driver line-up, although not as strong as RBR. I don't expect Bottas to be a 'after you, Lewis' driver, but he'll perform solidly for the team. A few wins will suffice.

Mercedes don't want Alonso considered his "sabotaging" history and Alonso is not that good some try to make him to be. Alonso is not in Hamilton's league when driving in the rain and that's the moment great ones are separated from the good ones.


Unfortunately Alonso is better in the dry, and as almost all the races are run in dry conditions...

Yes like he was in 2007 against a rookie?


Alonso has been in F1 for 15 seasons, Hamilton 10. We don't need to judge based on just 1. Especially when we have seen Alonso finish ahead of Hamilton in an inferior car.

Superb though Hamilton is he has never done anything to match Alonso's best seasons.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:48 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
This is a golden opportunity. Hopefully he will make the most of it. I must admit to being somewhat underwhelmed by the new Mercedes driver. I was hoping for a more interesting teammate battle. Teammate matchups are the most interesting thing in F1. Perhaps Bottas will surprise us all.

Bottas is 4 and 0 against teammates so has an undefeated record thus far.


It was easy for him with Maldonado & Massa as teammates!

That's an argument you could use against some other drivers as well like who has Vettel beat?


A former champion and another multiple race winner. Both on multiple occasions and very comfortably.

The former champion being Kimi who couldn't beat Massa, Massa himself being a multiple race winner.

Bottas beat Massa more comfortably this season than Vettel beat Kimi, in qualifying the difference is quite marked, Bottas thrashed Massa whilst it was quite close between Vettel and Kimi.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:54 pm 
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I fear a little for Bottas. They are not announcing the length of the deal which suggests it's a 1 + 1 deal, which means he basically has until mid-season to prove he deserves to be there next year as the likes of Vettel and Alonso wont want to wait until the end of the season before making a decision on what they do in 2018. I think Bottas will do fine, but asking him to come into the team in January and be at least keeping Hamilton honest by mid-season is a big ask for any driver.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:55 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Henri Royce wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
Of all the options available to Mercedes, he's the 'safest'. Alonso would have been interesting but nowhere near as bad as 2007. Werhlein is unproven and probably would've caused more headaches than Rosberg ever did.

At the very least, Merc now have a relatively strong driver line-up, although not as strong as RBR. I don't expect Bottas to be a 'after you, Lewis' driver, but he'll perform solidly for the team. A few wins will suffice.

Mercedes don't want Alonso considered his "sabotaging" history and Alonso is not that good some try to make him to be. Alonso is not in Hamilton's league when driving in the rain and that's the moment great ones are separated from the good ones.


Unfortunately Alonso is better in the dry, and as almost all the races are run in dry conditions...

Yes like he was in 2007 against a rookie?


Alonso has been in F1 for 15 seasons, Hamilton 10. We don't need to judge based on just 1. Especially when we have seen Alonso finish ahead of Hamilton in an inferior car.

Superb though Hamilton is he has never done anything to match Alonso's best seasons.

I think to a point we have to look at the quality of the teammates, Button was clearly the best teammate Alonso has had since 2007, the first 18 months it was close between the two of them before Button announced his retirement and then mentally switched off.

Also it's always a better situation for a driver when he can call the shots within a team and have a #1 driver advantage.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:59 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Bottas is 4 and 0 against teammates so has an undefeated record thus far.


It was easy for him with Maldonado & Massa as teammates!

That's an argument you could use against some other drivers as well like who has Vettel beat?


A former champion and another multiple race winner. Both on multiple occasions and very comfortably.

The former champion being Kimi who couldn't beat Massa, Massa himself being a multiple race winner.

Bottas beat Massa more comfortably this season than Vettel beat Kimi, in qualifying the difference is quite marked, Bottas thrashed Massa whilst it was quite close between Vettel and Kimi.

That is true. Mind you, last year it was the reverse. Wonder which year is the "true" barometer?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:05 pm 
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Grizzly B wrote:
I fear a little for Bottas. They are not announcing the length of the deal which suggests it's a 1 + 1 deal, which means he basically has until mid-season to prove he deserves to be there next year as the likes of Vettel and Alonso wont want to wait until the end of the season before making a decision on what they do in 2018. I think Bottas will do fine, but asking him to come into the team in January and be at least keeping Hamilton honest by mid-season is a big ask for any driver.

Well in a top team you always have to perform unless that team is happy at times to have a #1 and #2 driver situation, like Ferrari and Red Bull.

I'm sure that he is more than happy to be given the chance that some drivers never get and if he is within about 2 tenths of Hamilton then that's probably good enough and I don't see why he shouldn't be capable of that given his past record.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:27 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Grizzly B wrote:
I fear a little for Bottas. They are not announcing the length of the deal which suggests it's a 1 + 1 deal, which means he basically has until mid-season to prove he deserves to be there next year as the likes of Vettel and Alonso wont want to wait until the end of the season before making a decision on what they do in 2018. I think Bottas will do fine, but asking him to come into the team in January and be at least keeping Hamilton honest by mid-season is a big ask for any driver.

Well in a top team you always have to perform unless that team is happy at times to have a #1 and #2 driver situation, like Ferrari and Red Bull.

I'm sure that he is more than happy to be given the chance that some drivers never get and if he is within about 2 tenths of Hamilton then that's probably good enough and I don't see why he shouldn't be capable of that given his past record.


They have their sights on Vettel, Alonso, Sainz, Perez etc...

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:29 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
The former champion being Kimi who couldn't beat Massa, Massa himself being a multiple race winner.

Bottas beat Massa more comfortably this season than Vettel beat Kimi, in qualifying the difference is quite marked, Bottas thrashed Massa whilst it was quite close between Vettel and Kimi.


Why not use all data available?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:34 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
I think to a point we have to look at the quality of the teammates, Button was clearly the best teammate Alonso has had since 2007, the first 18 months it was close between the two of them before Button announced his retirement and then mentally switched off.

Also it's always a better situation for a driver when he can call the shots within a team and have a #1 driver advantage.


Button wasn't close at any point in 2016. I can't believe people are still coming out with such nonsense. in 2015 the cars almost never
both ran cleanly making any meaningful comparison impossible.

And why just look at such small details with such experienced driver. Why can't we factor in Alonso almost winning the WDC in the 4th best car or finishing 9th in the championship in 09 in, at times, the slowest car on the grid.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:48 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Henri Royce wrote:
[quote="MistaVega23
Mercedes don't want Alonso considered his "sabotaging" history and Alonso is not that good some try to make him to be. Alonso is not in Hamilton's league when driving in the rain and that's the moment great ones are separated from the good ones.


Unfortunately Alonso is better in the dry, and as almost all the races are run in dry conditions...

Yes like he was in 2007 against a rookie?


Alonso has been in F1 for 15 seasons, Hamilton 10. We don't need to judge based on just 1. Especially when we have seen Alonso finish ahead of Hamilton in an inferior car.

Superb though Hamilton is he has never done anything to match Alonso's best seasons.

I think to a point we have to look at the quality of the teammates, Button was clearly the best teammate Alonso has had since 2007, the first 18 months it was close between the two of them before Button announced his retirement and then mentally switched off.

Also it's always a better situation for a driver when he can call the shots within a team and have a #1 driver advantage.


What changed was reliability in the second half of this season(No failures after Spa) and we stopped having to throw out results where Alonso was ahead but ran into issues or Alonso was ahead and JB had issues(And vice versa). Count those from the first 18 months and they're in the same area as what came after as I showed you the last time you claimed this.

JB's best performance against Alonso came post announcement as well(Italy). He did make 1 driver error though in AD whereas he hadn't made one since Singapore 2015 which is quite the run. Add in McLaren botching his car in Brazil and their perfect reliability run coupled with the car capable of scoring more points this year and that's what you get.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:56 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Henri Royce wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
Of all the options available to Mercedes, he's the 'safest'. Alonso would have been interesting but nowhere near as bad as 2007. Werhlein is unproven and probably would've caused more headaches than Rosberg ever did.

At the very least, Merc now have a relatively strong driver line-up, although not as strong as RBR. I don't expect Bottas to be a 'after you, Lewis' driver, but he'll perform solidly for the team. A few wins will suffice.

Mercedes don't want Alonso considered his "sabotaging" history and Alonso is not that good some try to make him to be. Alonso is not in Hamilton's league when driving in the rain and that's the moment great ones are separated from the good ones.


Unfortunately Alonso is better in the dry, and as almost all the races are run in dry conditions...

Yes like he was in 2007 against a rookie?


Alonso has been in F1 for 15 seasons, Hamilton 10. We don't need to judge based on just 1. Especially when we have seen Alonso finish ahead of Hamilton in an inferior car.

Superb though Hamilton is he has never done anything to match Alonso's best seasons.


Which was?
I also bet Alonso's worst season(for obvious reasons) was 2007 right?

One of the reasons Hamilton won his championships(or had a shot at) and Alonso lost his were the wet races(as Henri Royce was hinting). Just rerun those seasons and you will see what I mean.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:34 pm 
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Henri Royce wrote:
dabi wrote:
Hamilton will destroy him, unless they (toto) destroy Hamiltons car...

Like the team did in 2016 for example..


Ohh please lets not go there :lol: :lol: It's time to accept the fact that your boy lost and get on with it.

Back to topic, I believe Bottas will be a perfect nr 2 driver. Doesnt seem to have the competetive instict of a winner. Will accept a good nr. 2 as long as he is in a good car.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:43 pm 
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Posts: 7787
Oasis wrote:
Henri Royce wrote:
dabi wrote:
Hamilton will destroy him, unless they (toto) destroy Hamiltons car...

Like the team did in 2016 for example..


Ohh please lets not go there :lol: :lol: It's time to accept the fact that your boy lost and get on with it.

Back to topic, I believe Bottas will be a perfect nr 2 driver. Doesnt seem to have the competetive instict of a winner. Will accept a good nr. 2 as long as he is in a good car.


Why do you say that?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:48 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Henri Royce wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
Of all the options available to Mercedes, he's the 'safest'. Alonso would have been interesting but nowhere near as bad as 2007. Werhlein is unproven and probably would've caused more headaches than Rosberg ever did.

At the very least, Merc now have a relatively strong driver line-up, although not as strong as RBR. I don't expect Bottas to be a 'after you, Lewis' driver, but he'll perform solidly for the team. A few wins will suffice.

Mercedes don't want Alonso considered his "sabotaging" history and Alonso is not that good some try to make him to be. Alonso is not in Hamilton's league when driving in the rain and that's the moment great ones are separated from the good ones.


Unfortunately Alonso is better in the dry, and as almost all the races are run in dry conditions...

Yes like he was in 2007 against a rookie?


Alonso has been in F1 for 15 seasons, Hamilton 10. We don't need to judge based on just 1. Especially when we have seen Alonso finish ahead of Hamilton in an inferior car.

Superb though Hamilton is he has never done anything to match Alonso's best seasons.

Now we get that "inferior" car stuff, Alonso never animferior car, just equal to the rest.


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