planetf1.com

It is currently Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:12 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 8414
Quote:
The three-time champion says he has asked his team to not share the data, as he is set to be joined by new team-mate Valtteri Bottas at Mercedes for the 2017 season.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... ta-sharing

Thoughts? Should the data sharing be stopped?

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:13 pm
Posts: 783
Hamilton, and every driver in Formula One is part of a team. Leading up to the race itself, the TEAM work in unison to tune the car and maximize it's performance. For a driver, it is understandable they are selfish and want to win. I fully support that mental position ... for the race. For the team, they want BOTH cars to finish as high as possible, because winning the Constructor's Championship is what they are after.

In the past there have been very close results in the Manufacturer's Championships, the difference resulting in many millions of dollars in payouts at year's end, as well as prestige and bringing in sponsors. Why should any team sacrifice the interests of the team for any selfish driver? Because in the end, both drivers and cars take to the grid in equal machinery, and may the best man win.

Let's get something straight. It is never a one way flow of data, each driver benefits from what the other driver discovers in practice. Just check last year, when many times Rosberg was fastest in first practice, then Hamilton fastest in following sessions. Guess who was reading the data and benefiting on those occasions?

Why does Hamilton fear Bottas? Why is he already campaigning to handicap the Finn?

_________________
Only dogs, mothers, and quality undergarments give unconditional support.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 pm
Posts: 4229
Location: Mumbai, India
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Hamilton, and every driver in Formula One is part of a team. Leading up to the race itself, the TEAM work in unison to tune the car and maximize it's performance. For a driver, it is understandable they are selfish and want to win. I fully support that mental position ... for the race. For the team, they want BOTH cars to finish as high as possible, because winning the Constructor's Championship is what they are after.

In the past there have been very close results in the Manufacturer's Championships, the difference resulting in many millions of dollars in payouts at year's end, as well as prestige and bringing in sponsors. Why should any team sacrifice the interests of the team for any selfish driver? Because in the end, both drivers and cars take to the grid in equal machinery, and may the best man win.

Let's get something straight. It is never a one way flow of data, each driver benefits from what the other driver discovers in practice. Just check last year, when many times Rosberg was fastest in first practice, then Hamilton fastest in following sessions. Guess who was reading the data and benefiting on those occasions?

Why does Hamilton fear Bottas? Why is he already campaigning to handicap the Finn?


Intimidation!!!!

He can't afford to be beaten by his team mate. It could also be he rates Bottas higher than Rosberg.

_________________
Feel The Fourth


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 1:05 pm
Posts: 5893
Sharing data is a two way thing. As Hamilton is the more experienced driver (both in general and with the team) it's probably fair to expect 'his' data would be the more useful data most of the time. He should be mindful though that it's entirely possible Bottas could hit the sweet spot with the setup etc. Would his attitude towards sharing be the same then?

From Mercedes point of view having two teammates who share and work together is obviously the right way to go. They want the best team result possible come raceday and cooperation between teammates is the best way to get that.

It's an understandable request from Hamilton but IMO Mercedes would be silly to indulge him. Also it seems Lewis' mindset is that the situation will be the same as previous years, a straight fight between him and his teammate for the title. There are no guarantees that will still be the case this year and he may find himself in a situation where it's more important to improve the car than squabble with Bottas.


Last edited by Black_Flag_11 on Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:00 pm
Posts: 4151
This of course assumes that driving styles are the same amongst drivers or that there is only one "best" way to drive any one corner or track.

Some prefer oversteer some under steer. The way a driver who likes a pointy front will attack a corner differently than one who steers more with the throttle. While there are many corners where 2 such drivers will take it the same there won't be much to be learned from studying another drivers telemetry.

_________________
{Insert clever sig line here}


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:06 am
Posts: 3180
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Hamilton, and every driver in Formula One is part of a team. Leading up to the race itself, the TEAM work in unison to tune the car and maximize it's performance. For a driver, it is understandable they are selfish and want to win. I fully support that mental position ... for the race. For the team, they want BOTH cars to finish as high as possible, because winning the Constructor's Championship is what they are after.

In the past there have been very close results in the Manufacturer's Championships, the difference resulting in many millions of dollars in payouts at year's end, as well as prestige and bringing in sponsors. Why should any team sacrifice the interests of the team for any selfish driver? Because in the end, both drivers and cars take to the grid in equal machinery, and may the best man win.

Let's get something straight. It is never a one way flow of data, each driver benefits from what the other driver discovers in practice. Just check last year, when many times Rosberg was fastest in first practice, then Hamilton fastest in following sessions. Guess who was reading the data and benefiting on those occasions?

Why does Hamilton fear Bottas? Why is he already campaigning to handicap the Finn?

:thumbup:

_________________
http://grandprixratings.blogspot.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:06 am
Posts: 3180
As responses above here say: data should/must be shared for the benefit of the team.
Hamilton benefitted from seeing Alonso's data in 2007, Rosberg from Michael's 2010-2012, Lewis and Nico from each other in 2013-2016.

Lewis should be confident in his own driving ability to share data. If he then beats Bottas everyone will know it was driver and not car set-up superiority.

_________________
http://grandprixratings.blogspot.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:48 pm
Posts: 2306
Location: UK
As much as I'd normally lean towards the drivers' interests in these situations (my feeling being that the sport sells itself better when the drivers are the stars rather than being team-focussed), here the team's interests must take precedence. When agreeing Lewis' salary the team would have taken into account only what they get from his own results, but also how much their other driver can gain from his data. No doubt that Hamilton has raised this point because he feels that Rosberg gained more from using his data than vice versa but he has to appreciate that the team employ him at such great expense because his presence aids the performance of both cars, not just because of the results he scores himself.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 pm
Posts: 4229
Location: Mumbai, India
Is the data shared always amongst all teams?

If so then why do sometimes team mates (in midfield cars) sometimes qualify with many positions in between? Not with either a mistake or with some malfunction! So many times I've witnessed that 1 team mate does well in practive sessions & also does well in qualy but his team mate remains a few positions behind all the time. Wouldn't the faster team mate's data have been shared already so as to improve the performance of the slower team mate?

I think the driving style makes all the difference! Wouldn't 2 cars (of the same team) not be having the same feel which could make a bigger difference between 2 team mates?

_________________
Feel The Fourth


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 3549
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Hamilton, and every driver in Formula One is part of a team. Leading up to the race itself, the TEAM work in unison to tune the car and maximize it's performance. For a driver, it is understandable they are selfish and want to win. I fully support that mental position ... for the race. For the team, they want BOTH cars to finish as high as possible, because winning the Constructor's Championship is what they are after.

In the past there have been very close results in the Manufacturer's Championships, the difference resulting in many millions of dollars in payouts at year's end, as well as prestige and bringing in sponsors. Why should any team sacrifice the interests of the team for any selfish driver? Because in the end, both drivers and cars take to the grid in equal machinery, and may the best man win.

Let's get something straight. It is never a one way flow of data, each driver benefits from what the other driver discovers in practice. Just check last year, when many times Rosberg was fastest in first practice, then Hamilton fastest in following sessions. Guess who was reading the data and benefiting on those occasions?

Why does Hamilton fear Bottas? Why is he already campaigning to handicap the Finn?

Handicap? How do you perceive this as a handicap for either driver? What he's campaigning for is to not share driving data between drivers. Can you clarify your claim?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:13 pm
Posts: 783
RaggedMan wrote:
This of course assumes that driving styles are the same amongst drivers or that there is only one "best" way to drive any one corner or track.

Some prefer oversteer some under steer. The way a driver who likes a pointy front will attack a corner differently than one who steers more with the throttle. While there are many corners where 2 such drivers will take it the same there won't be much to be learned from studying another drivers telemetry.


There is a heck of a lot each driver can benefit from by studying the other driver. I am an avid sim racer heavily involved in iRacing. One support program is "iSpeed" telemetry collection everyone shares. I can study a faster driver, and on close examination I can learn "if I take it a little deeper into the corner, then turn later, I can gain X amount of speed over my current method"

From my own personal data.
Image
https://im1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/010030669172/media/92648802106/small/1487517247390/enhance

I need to clarify setups. The team start with a car design, theoretically fast. They then construct it, test it, refine it. All of that is engineering stuff, a lot of hard work by a lot of people. The driver is allowed only certain ranges in adjustment, basically to deliver a car that he is comfortable with and acts predictably. They all drive their cars at the ultimate limit, so those tiny tweaks are important for them to be able to push the car with confidence.

_________________
Only dogs, mothers, and quality undergarments give unconditional support.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:29 pm
Posts: 644
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Hamilton, and every driver in Formula One is part of a team. Leading up to the race itself, the TEAM work in unison to tune the car and maximize it's performance. For a driver, it is understandable they are selfish and want to win. I fully support that mental position ... for the race. For the team, they want BOTH cars to finish as high as possible, because winning the Constructor's Championship is what they are after.

In the past there have been very close results in the Manufacturer's Championships, the difference resulting in many millions of dollars in payouts at year's end, as well as prestige and bringing in sponsors. Why should any team sacrifice the interests of the team for any selfish driver? Because in the end, both drivers and cars take to the grid in equal machinery, and may the best man win.

Let's get something straight. It is never a one way flow of data, each driver benefits from what the other driver discovers in practice. Just check last year, when many times Rosberg was fastest in first practice, then Hamilton fastest in following sessions. Guess who was reading the data and benefiting on those occasions?

Why does Hamilton fear Bottas? Why is he already campaigning to handicap the Finn?


Because your argument is convoluted by your blind resentment of Hamilton and his talent, your statements come across as illogical.

First you are advocating that Hamilton should subsidize his teammate's lack of ability then you declare illogically that the "best man" should win. I would like to believe that Bottas was hired for what he could bring to the team, not what he could bring "standing on Hamilton's shoulders".

Why would Hamilton fear a driver whom, by your own admission would be handicapped without Hamilton's data? Makes no logical sense, does it?

Let each man fend for himeself and prove his worth to the team based on his own abilities. Sounds fair to me!

Seems like a thread for the anti-Hamilton brigade to weigh-in with their biased and illogical arguments. Senna and Schumacher didn't share their data.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 8414
ElevenTenths wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Hamilton, and every driver in Formula One is part of a team. Leading up to the race itself, the TEAM work in unison to tune the car and maximize it's performance. For a driver, it is understandable they are selfish and want to win. I fully support that mental position ... for the race. For the team, they want BOTH cars to finish as high as possible, because winning the Constructor's Championship is what they are after.

In the past there have been very close results in the Manufacturer's Championships, the difference resulting in many millions of dollars in payouts at year's end, as well as prestige and bringing in sponsors. Why should any team sacrifice the interests of the team for any selfish driver? Because in the end, both drivers and cars take to the grid in equal machinery, and may the best man win.

Let's get something straight. It is never a one way flow of data, each driver benefits from what the other driver discovers in practice. Just check last year, when many times Rosberg was fastest in first practice, then Hamilton fastest in following sessions. Guess who was reading the data and benefiting on those occasions?

Why does Hamilton fear Bottas? Why is he already campaigning to handicap the Finn?


Because your argument is convoluted by your blind resentment of Hamilton and his talent, your statements come across as illogical.

First you are advocating that Hamilton should subsidize his teammate's lack of ability then you declare illogically that the "best man" should win. I would like to believe that Bottas was hired for what he could bring to the team, not what he could bring "standing on Hamilton's shoulders".

Why would Hamilton fear a driver whom, by your own admission would be handicapped without Hamilton's data? Makes no logical sense, does it?

Let each man fend for himeself and prove his worth to the team based on his own abilities. Sounds fair to me!

Seems like a thread for the anti-Hamilton brigade to weigh-in with their biased and illogical arguments. Senna and Schumacher didn't share their data.

Congrats on being the first to start with the personal insults in an otherwise civil thread.

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:35 pm
Posts: 1132
sandman1347 wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Hamilton, and every driver in Formula One is part of a team. Leading up to the race itself, the TEAM work in unison to tune the car and maximize it's performance. For a driver, it is understandable they are selfish and want to win. I fully support that mental position ... for the race. For the team, they want BOTH cars to finish as high as possible, because winning the Constructor's Championship is what they are after.

In the past there have been very close results in the Manufacturer's Championships, the difference resulting in many millions of dollars in payouts at year's end, as well as prestige and bringing in sponsors. Why should any team sacrifice the interests of the team for any selfish driver? Because in the end, both drivers and cars take to the grid in equal machinery, and may the best man win.

Let's get something straight. It is never a one way flow of data, each driver benefits from what the other driver discovers in practice. Just check last year, when many times Rosberg was fastest in first practice, then Hamilton fastest in following sessions. Guess who was reading the data and benefiting on those occasions?

Why does Hamilton fear Bottas? Why is he already campaigning to handicap the Finn?

Handicap? How do you perceive this as a handicap for either driver? What he's campaigning for is to not share driving data between drivers. Can you clarify your claim?


Thats how Rosberg got even better because he would analyze data all the time comparing his information to Lewis' information, but its funny how exactly 10 years ago, how time flies by, and Lewis was FOR sharing data as a rookie when Lewis and Fernando was on the same team. Times really have changed and to think he enjoyed reading over Alonso's data at the beginning of his career.

I understand why, but you already know Mercedes is having none of that.

_________________
Felipe Massa fan/supporter since 2002 and counting!

We ALL love you Schumi! Don't ever give up!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:09 pm
Posts: 3964
Location: LONDON...!
OutKast wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Hamilton, and every driver in Formula One is part of a team. Leading up to the race itself, the TEAM work in unison to tune the car and maximize it's performance. For a driver, it is understandable they are selfish and want to win. I fully support that mental position ... for the race. For the team, they want BOTH cars to finish as high as possible, because winning the Constructor's Championship is what they are after.

In the past there have been very close results in the Manufacturer's Championships, the difference resulting in many millions of dollars in payouts at year's end, as well as prestige and bringing in sponsors. Why should any team sacrifice the interests of the team for any selfish driver? Because in the end, both drivers and cars take to the grid in equal machinery, and may the best man win.

Let's get something straight. It is never a one way flow of data, each driver benefits from what the other driver discovers in practice. Just check last year, when many times Rosberg was fastest in first practice, then Hamilton fastest in following sessions. Guess who was reading the data and benefiting on those occasions?

Why does Hamilton fear Bottas? Why is he already campaigning to handicap the Finn?

Handicap? How do you perceive this as a handicap for either driver? What he's campaigning for is to not share driving data between drivers. Can you clarify your claim?


Thats how Rosberg got even better because he would analyze data all the time comparing his information to Lewis' information, but its funny how exactly 10 years ago, how time flies by, and Lewis was FOR sharing data as a rookie when Lewis and Fernando was on the same team. Times really have changed and to think he enjoyed reading over Alonso's data at the beginning of his career.

I understand why, but you already know Mercedes is having none of that.

You said it yourself, Rookie.

Bottas is NOT a Rookie.

Alonso used Hamilton's data during 2007 also.


Last edited by Clarky on Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:29 pm
Posts: 644
Covalent wrote:
ElevenTenths wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Hamilton, and every driver in Formula One is part of a team. Leading up to the race itself, the TEAM work in unison to tune the car and maximize it's performance. For a driver, it is understandable they are selfish and want to win. I fully support that mental position ... for the race. For the team, they want BOTH cars to finish as high as possible, because winning the Constructor's Championship is what they are after.

In the past there have been very close results in the Manufacturer's Championships, the difference resulting in many millions of dollars in payouts at year's end, as well as prestige and bringing in sponsors. Why should any team sacrifice the interests of the team for any selfish driver? Because in the end, both drivers and cars take to the grid in equal machinery, and may the best man win.

Let's get something straight. It is never a one way flow of data, each driver benefits from what the other driver discovers in practice. Just check last year, when many times Rosberg was fastest in first practice, then Hamilton fastest in following sessions. Guess who was reading the data and benefiting on those occasions?

Why does Hamilton fear Bottas? Why is he already campaigning to handicap the Finn?


Because your argument is convoluted by your blind resentment of Hamilton and his talent, your statements come across as illogical.

First you are advocating that Hamilton should subsidize his teammate's lack of ability then you declare illogically that the "best man" should win. I would like to believe that Bottas was hired for what he could bring to the team, not what he could bring "standing on Hamilton's shoulders".

Why would Hamilton fear a driver whom, by your own admission would be handicapped without Hamilton's data? Makes no logical sense, does it?

Let each man fend for himeself and prove his worth to the team based on his own abilities. Sounds fair to me!

Seems like a thread for the anti-Hamilton brigade to weigh-in with their biased and illogical arguments. Senna and Schumacher didn't share their data.

Congrats on being the first to start with the personal insults in an otherwise civil thread.


I missed the personal insult. Is there any logic to his argument? How is Bottas being handicapped? It's an interesting topic, but why can't some of you just debate an issue on its own merit rather than be swayed by your opinion of Hamilton? Just watch how this thread develops......


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:35 pm
Posts: 1132
Clarky wrote:
OutKast wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Hamilton, and every driver in Formula One is part of a team. Leading up to the race itself, the TEAM work in unison to tune the car and maximize it's performance. For a driver, it is understandable they are selfish and want to win. I fully support that mental position ... for the race. For the team, they want BOTH cars to finish as high as possible, because winning the Constructor's Championship is what they are after.

In the past there have been very close results in the Manufacturer's Championships, the difference resulting in many millions of dollars in payouts at year's end, as well as prestige and bringing in sponsors. Why should any team sacrifice the interests of the team for any selfish driver? Because in the end, both drivers and cars take to the grid in equal machinery, and may the best man win.

Let's get something straight. It is never a one way flow of data, each driver benefits from what the other driver discovers in practice. Just check last year, when many times Rosberg was fastest in first practice, then Hamilton fastest in following sessions. Guess who was reading the data and benefiting on those occasions?

Why does Hamilton fear Bottas? Why is he already campaigning to handicap the Finn?

Handicap? How do you perceive this as a handicap for either driver? What he's campaigning for is to not share driving data between drivers. Can you clarify your claim?


Thats how Rosberg got even better because he would analyze data all the time comparing his information to Lewis' information, but its funny how exactly 10 years ago, how time flies by, and Lewis was FOR sharing data as a rookie when Lewis and Fernando was on the same team. Times really have changed and to think he enjoyed reading over Alonso's data at the beginning of his career.

I understand why, but you already know Mercedes is having none of that.

You said it yourself, Rookie.

Bottas is NOT a Rookie.

Also Alonso used Hamilton's data during 2007 also.


True, but the team is going to continue to do it regardless.

Lewis might as well suck it up in this case.

_________________
Felipe Massa fan/supporter since 2002 and counting!

We ALL love you Schumi! Don't ever give up!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 3549
ElevenTenths wrote:
Covalent wrote:
ElevenTenths wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Hamilton, and every driver in Formula One is part of a team. Leading up to the race itself, the TEAM work in unison to tune the car and maximize it's performance. For a driver, it is understandable they are selfish and want to win. I fully support that mental position ... for the race. For the team, they want BOTH cars to finish as high as possible, because winning the Constructor's Championship is what they are after.

In the past there have been very close results in the Manufacturer's Championships, the difference resulting in many millions of dollars in payouts at year's end, as well as prestige and bringing in sponsors. Why should any team sacrifice the interests of the team for any selfish driver? Because in the end, both drivers and cars take to the grid in equal machinery, and may the best man win.

Let's get something straight. It is never a one way flow of data, each driver benefits from what the other driver discovers in practice. Just check last year, when many times Rosberg was fastest in first practice, then Hamilton fastest in following sessions. Guess who was reading the data and benefiting on those occasions?

Why does Hamilton fear Bottas? Why is he already campaigning to handicap the Finn?


Because your argument is convoluted by your blind resentment of Hamilton and his talent, your statements come across as illogical.

First you are advocating that Hamilton should subsidize his teammate's lack of ability then you declare illogically that the "best man" should win. I would like to believe that Bottas was hired for what he could bring to the team, not what he could bring "standing on Hamilton's shoulders".

Why would Hamilton fear a driver whom, by your own admission would be handicapped without Hamilton's data? Makes no logical sense, does it?

Let each man fend for himeself and prove his worth to the team based on his own abilities. Sounds fair to me!

Seems like a thread for the anti-Hamilton brigade to weigh-in with their biased and illogical arguments. Senna and Schumacher didn't share their data.

Congrats on being the first to start with the personal insults in an otherwise civil thread.


I missed the personal insult. Is there any logic to his argument? How is Bottas being handicapped? It's an interesting topic, but why can't some of you just debate an issue on its own merit rather than be swayed by your opinion of Hamilton? Just watch how this thread develops......

Be careful. When you point out this absurd behavior, you are likely to be attacked by the usual suspects; who derail any conversation that involves Hamilton in this manner.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 18524
Does seem a strange thing to say, tbh. It's not "his" data: it's the team's. And if the team thinks that using that data will help maximise both cars' finishing potential, then why shouldn't they use that?

Bit of attention grabbing here, I think


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:09 pm
Posts: 3964
Location: LONDON...!
Zoue wrote:
Does seem a strange thing to say, tbh. It's not "his" data: it's the team's. And if the team thinks that using that data will help maximise both cars' finishing potential, then why shouldn't they use that?

Bit of attention grabbing here, I think

He said he is happy for the engineers to use the data just would prefer the other driver not to studying it.


Last edited by Clarky on Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:29 pm
Posts: 644
sandman1347 wrote:
ElevenTenths wrote:
Covalent wrote:
ElevenTenths wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Hamilton, and every driver in Formula One is part of a team. Leading up to the race itself, the TEAM work in unison to tune the car and maximize it's performance. For a driver, it is understandable they are selfish and want to win. I fully support that mental position ... for the race. For the team, they want BOTH cars to finish as high as possible, because winning the Constructor's Championship is what they are after.

In the past there have been very close results in the Manufacturer's Championships, the difference resulting in many millions of dollars in payouts at year's end, as well as prestige and bringing in sponsors. Why should any team sacrifice the interests of the team for any selfish driver? Because in the end, both drivers and cars take to the grid in equal machinery, and may the best man win.

Let's get something straight. It is never a one way flow of data, each driver benefits from what the other driver discovers in practice. Just check last year, when many times Rosberg was fastest in first practice, then Hamilton fastest in following sessions. Guess who was reading the data and benefiting on those occasions?

Why does Hamilton fear Bottas? Why is he already campaigning to handicap the Finn?


Because your argument is convoluted by your blind resentment of Hamilton and his talent, your statements come across as illogical.

First you are advocating that Hamilton should subsidize his teammate's lack of ability then you declare illogically that the "best man" should win. I would like to believe that Bottas was hired for what he could bring to the team, not what he could bring "standing on Hamilton's shoulders".

Why would Hamilton fear a driver whom, by your own admission would be handicapped without Hamilton's data? Makes no logical sense, does it?



Let each man fend for himeself and prove his worth to the team based on his own abilities. Sounds fair to me!

Seems like a thread for the anti-Hamilton brigade to weigh-in with their biased and illogical arguments. Senna and Schumacher didn't share their data.

Congrats on being the first to start with the personal insults in an otherwise civil thread.


I missed the personal insult. Is there any logic to his argument? How is Bottas being handicapped? It's an interesting topic, but why can't some of you just debate an issue on its own merit rather than be swayed by your opinion of Hamilton? Just watch how this thread develops......

Be careful. When you point out this absurd behavior, you are likely to be attacked by the usual suspects; who derail any conversation that involves Hamilton in this manner.


I just wish some other driver made the statement, then we could have had some really good debates. It is a great topic, especially in this era when the fields have been bunched together according to team, making for some predictable results. What better way to space the out the racing and let each driver succeed on their own merit.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:09 pm
Posts: 3964
Location: LONDON...!
https://www.periscope.tv/w/1gqxvqzDByeJB


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:29 pm
Posts: 644
Zoue wrote:
Does seem a strange thing to say, tbh. It's not "his" data: it's the team's. And if the team thinks that using that data will help maximise both cars' finishing potential, then why shouldn't they use that?

Bit of attention grabbing here, I think


Welcome, hang tight my friend. You will soon be backed up by PROST, FIKI and the American from Nebraska...can't remember his username? :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 18524
ElevenTenths wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
ElevenTenths wrote:
Covalent wrote:
ElevenTenths wrote:

Because your argument is convoluted by your blind resentment of Hamilton and his talent, your statements come across as illogical.

First you are advocating that Hamilton should subsidize his teammate's lack of ability then you declare illogically that the "best man" should win. I would like to believe that Bottas was hired for what he could bring to the team, not what he could bring "standing on Hamilton's shoulders".

Why would Hamilton fear a driver whom, by your own admission would be handicapped without Hamilton's data? Makes no logical sense, does it?



Let each man fend for himeself and prove his worth to the team based on his own abilities. Sounds fair to me!

Seems like a thread for the anti-Hamilton brigade to weigh-in with their biased and illogical arguments. Senna and Schumacher didn't share their data.

Congrats on being the first to start with the personal insults in an otherwise civil thread.


I missed the personal insult. Is there any logic to his argument? How is Bottas being handicapped? It's an interesting topic, but why can't some of you just debate an issue on its own merit rather than be swayed by your opinion of Hamilton? Just watch how this thread develops......

Be careful. When you point out this absurd behavior, you are likely to be attacked by the usual suspects; who derail any conversation that involves Hamilton in this manner.


I just wish some other driver made the statement, then we could have had some really good debates. It is a great topic, especially in this era when the fields have been bunched together according to team, making for some predictable results. What better way to space the out the racing and let each driver succeed on their own merit.

I'm finding this a bit disingenuous, tbh. You're the one who attacked the other poster for his views, yet you're upset because people can't debate civilly?

We can have a good debate about this. Just don't turn it into a "you must hate Hamilton" thread and problem solved


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 18524
Clarky wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Does seem a strange thing to say, tbh. It's not "his" data: it's the team's. And if the team thinks that using that data will help maximise both cars' finishing potential, then why shouldn't they use that?

Bit of attention grabbing here, I think

He said he is happy for the engineers to use the data just would prefer the other driver not to studying it.

But it's not like he's never studied another driver's data. Or have we all forgotten Twittergate?

Still think it's an odd thing to make an issue of


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 18524
ElevenTenths wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Does seem a strange thing to say, tbh. It's not "his" data: it's the team's. And if the team thinks that using that data will help maximise both cars' finishing potential, then why shouldn't they use that?

Bit of attention grabbing here, I think


Welcome, hang tight my friend. You will soon be backed up by PROST, FIKI and the American from Nebraska...can't remember his username? :lol:

Because of course this adds to the "good debate." :uhoh:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:23 am
Posts: 2461
sandman1347 wrote:
ElevenTenths wrote:
Covalent wrote:
ElevenTenths wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Hamilton, and every driver in Formula One is part of a team. Leading up to the race itself, the TEAM work in unison to tune the car and maximize it's performance. For a driver, it is understandable they are selfish and want to win. I fully support that mental position ... for the race. For the team, they want BOTH cars to finish as high as possible, because winning the Constructor's Championship is what they are after.

In the past there have been very close results in the Manufacturer's Championships, the difference resulting in many millions of dollars in payouts at year's end, as well as prestige and bringing in sponsors. Why should any team sacrifice the interests of the team for any selfish driver? Because in the end, both drivers and cars take to the grid in equal machinery, and may the best man win.

Let's get something straight. It is never a one way flow of data, each driver benefits from what the other driver discovers in practice. Just check last year, when many times Rosberg was fastest in first practice, then Hamilton fastest in following sessions. Guess who was reading the data and benefiting on those occasions?

Why does Hamilton fear Bottas? Why is he already campaigning to handicap the Finn?


Because your argument is convoluted by your blind resentment of Hamilton and his talent, your statements come across as illogical.

First you are advocating that Hamilton should subsidize his teammate's lack of ability then you declare illogically that the "best man" should win. I would like to believe that Bottas was hired for what he could bring to the team, not what he could bring "standing on Hamilton's shoulders".

Why would Hamilton fear a driver whom, by your own admission would be handicapped without Hamilton's data? Makes no logical sense, does it?

Let each man fend for himeself and prove his worth to the team based on his own abilities. Sounds fair to me!

Seems like a thread for the anti-Hamilton brigade to weigh-in with their biased and illogical arguments. Senna and Schumacher didn't share their data.

Congrats on being the first to start with the personal insults in an otherwise civil thread.


I missed the personal insult. Is there any logic to his argument? How is Bottas being handicapped? It's an interesting topic, but why can't some of you just debate an issue on its own merit rather than be swayed by your opinion of Hamilton? Just watch how this thread develops......

Be careful. When you point out this absurd behavior, you are likely to be attacked by the usual suspects; who derail any conversation that involves Hamilton in this manner.


:thumbup: He was asked on the fly how he would improve F1. Having said it was an almost impossible question, he discussed tracks, spectators, speeds, stick shifts, the new regs, Nascar, brake balance adjust position, data sharing and a myraid of other things. And after discussing that for 10 mins all some got out of it was 'he doesnt want to share data with Bottas'. :uhoh:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:29 pm
Posts: 644
Zoue wrote:
I'm finding this a bit disingenuous, tbh. You're the one who attacked the other poster for his views, yet you're upset because people can't debate civilly?

We can have a good debate about this. Just don't turn it into a "you must hate Hamilton" thread and problem solved


I am not upset. I do find this frequent pattern so predictable though and also kinda boring!

So let me ask you. How do you think this issue affects the field and the predictability of the racing? Do you think it has any impact on team performance? Would you be against data sharing if it led to less predictable results along team lines? How about the conflict with the spirit of competition within the team? Everybody keeps clamouring for teams to let drivers race fairly. Do you think it is fair that your advantage should be given away to your teammate, whom you are required or even expected to beat?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 3549
Zoue wrote:
ElevenTenths wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Does seem a strange thing to say, tbh. It's not "his" data: it's the team's. And if the team thinks that using that data will help maximise both cars' finishing potential, then why shouldn't they use that?

Bit of attention grabbing here, I think


Welcome, hang tight my friend. You will soon be backed up by PROST, FIKI and the American from Nebraska...can't remember his username? :lol:

Because of course this adds to the "good debate." :uhoh:

"Debate"? Is that what you call this? You really never tire of this huh?

A debate about whether or not drivers should share data would be interesting but the insistence of blinky, yourself and a few others of taking every Hamilton-related thread in this direction, prevents that debate from materializing. Instead we're talking about nonsense...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 18524
ElevenTenths wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I'm finding this a bit disingenuous, tbh. You're the one who attacked the other poster for his views, yet you're upset because people can't debate civilly?

We can have a good debate about this. Just don't turn it into a "you must hate Hamilton" thread and problem solved


I am not upset. I do find this frequent pattern so predictable though and also kinda boring!

So let me ask you. How do you think this issue affects the field and the predictability of the racing? Do you think it has any impact on team performance? Would you be against data sharing if it led to less predictable results along team lines? How about the conflict with the spirit of competition within the team? Everybody keeps clamouring for teams to let drivers race fairly. Do you think it is fair that your advantage should be given away to your teammate, whom you are required or even expected to beat?

I don't have any problem with it. Go back to 2012, when Button was struggling with his setup issues. I think it would be pretty absurd not to analyse the data from the car that was working fine in an attempt to get back on track. The team can fix it but effectively hamper themselves? I don't get it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 18524
sandman1347 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
ElevenTenths wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Does seem a strange thing to say, tbh. It's not "his" data: it's the team's. And if the team thinks that using that data will help maximise both cars' finishing potential, then why shouldn't they use that?

Bit of attention grabbing here, I think


Welcome, hang tight my friend. You will soon be backed up by PROST, FIKI and the American from Nebraska...can't remember his username? :lol:

Because of course this adds to the "good debate." :uhoh:

"Debate"? Is that what you call this? You really never tire of this huh?

A debate about whether or not drivers should share data would be interesting but the insistence of blinky, yourself and a few others of taking every Hamilton-related thread in this direction, prevents that debate from materializing. Instead we're talking about nonsense...

Oh, not this again. It's you and your ilk that try to polarise every Hamilton-related debate into Hamilton-lovers and -haters. Give it a rest, will you? Lay off the attacks and you'll find things won't escalate. It's really not that hard.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:09 pm
Posts: 3964
Location: LONDON...!
Zoue wrote:
ElevenTenths wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I'm finding this a bit disingenuous, tbh. You're the one who attacked the other poster for his views, yet you're upset because people can't debate civilly?

We can have a good debate about this. Just don't turn it into a "you must hate Hamilton" thread and problem solved


I am not upset. I do find this frequent pattern so predictable though and also kinda boring!

So let me ask you. How do you think this issue affects the field and the predictability of the racing? Do you think it has any impact on team performance? Would you be against data sharing if it led to less predictable results along team lines? How about the conflict with the spirit of competition within the team? Everybody keeps clamouring for teams to let drivers race fairly. Do you think it is fair that your advantage should be given away to your teammate, whom you are required or even expected to beat?

I don't have any problem with it. Go back to 2012, when Button was struggling with his setup issues. I think it would be pretty absurd not to analyse the data from the car that was working fine in an attempt to get back on track. The team can fix it but effectively hamper themselves? I don't get it.

To be fair Hamilton is actually talking about studying braking points (his he braking x meters earlier), gears through the corners, how to drive the car.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:12 pm
Posts: 5348
Location: Nebraska, USA
Well, the guy from Nebraska has arrived.

It is really simple. This is s a team sport, it is the team that owns the data, not the driver. It is the team that pays the bills, answers to the investors and the sponsors, and if the team thinks that it is best for the team to share driver data, then they have every right to share the data even if the driver doesn't like it. If he can't handle that, then let him create his own team, then he can make such decisions.

eleventenths, you are the one who agressively came into this thread and it is you who brought me into before I had said a thing. So who are you to lay into the "other side" for responding?

_________________
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 18524
Clarky wrote:
Zoue wrote:
ElevenTenths wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I'm finding this a bit disingenuous, tbh. You're the one who attacked the other poster for his views, yet you're upset because people can't debate civilly?

We can have a good debate about this. Just don't turn it into a "you must hate Hamilton" thread and problem solved


I am not upset. I do find this frequent pattern so predictable though and also kinda boring!

So let me ask you. How do you think this issue affects the field and the predictability of the racing? Do you think it has any impact on team performance? Would you be against data sharing if it led to less predictable results along team lines? How about the conflict with the spirit of competition within the team? Everybody keeps clamouring for teams to let drivers race fairly. Do you think it is fair that your advantage should be given away to your teammate, whom you are required or even expected to beat?

I don't have any problem with it. Go back to 2012, when Button was struggling with his setup issues. I think it would be pretty absurd not to analyse the data from the car that was working fine in an attempt to get back on track. The team can fix it but effectively hamper themselves? I don't get it.

To be fair Hamilton is actually talking about studying braking points (his he braking x meters earlier), gears through the corners, how to drive the car.

That's a fair point.

I'm still not sure I see the issue though, although it does raise a broader question for me on the whole driving by numbers thing. Why do the drivers even need to see their own telemetry? If the issue is predictability, then let them drive by feel alone


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:29 pm
Posts: 644
Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
ElevenTenths wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Does seem a strange thing to say, tbh. It's not "his" data: it's the team's. And if the team thinks that using that data will help maximise both cars' finishing potential, then why shouldn't they use that?

Bit of attention grabbing here, I think


Welcome, hang tight my friend. You will soon be backed up by PROST, FIKI and the American from Nebraska...can't remember his username? :lol:

Because of course this adds to the "good debate." :uhoh:

"Debate"? Is that what you call this? You really never tire of this huh?

A debate about whether or not drivers should share data would be interesting but the insistence of blinky, yourself and a few others of taking every Hamilton-related thread in this direction, prevents that debate from materializing. Instead we're talking about nonsense...

Oh, not this again. It's you and your ilk that try to polarise every Hamilton-related debate into Hamilton-lovers and -haters. Give it a rest, will you? Lay off the attacks and you'll find things won't escalate. It's really not that hard.


No, it is you! Of all the substantive aspects this issue raises, you chose to focus on the trivial - "Who the data belongs to" Really? And of course, predictably, Blake joins and supports your uninspired point of view - I rest my case. I am out! later guys.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:12 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 2512
Only real problem I have about his comments are the ones surrounding rookies in the Sport. He benefited greatly from what he learned from Alonso in 2007 and has talked about it before so his comments here are poor and ill-thought out I feel.

On the rest I don't expect Mercedes would grant any request made to withhold data so I don't think anything would happen if he were to ask and I'm not surprised drivers can be a bit precious about their data.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 18524
ElevenTenths wrote:
Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
ElevenTenths wrote:
Welcome, hang tight my friend. You will soon be backed up by PROST, FIKI and the American from Nebraska...can't remember his username? :lol:

Because of course this adds to the "good debate." :uhoh:

"Debate"? Is that what you call this? You really never tire of this huh?

A debate about whether or not drivers should share data would be interesting but the insistence of blinky, yourself and a few others of taking every Hamilton-related thread in this direction, prevents that debate from materializing. Instead we're talking about nonsense...

Oh, not this again. It's you and your ilk that try to polarise every Hamilton-related debate into Hamilton-lovers and -haters. Give it a rest, will you? Lay off the attacks and you'll find things won't escalate. It's really not that hard.


No, it is you! Of all the substantive aspects this issue raises, you chose to focus on the trivial - "Who the data belongs to" Really? And of course, predictably, Blake joins and supports your uninspired point of view - I rest my case. I am out! later guys.

If you want to disagree with the premise that the data belongs to the team, not the driver, then why not do that? Instead of which you choose to attack the poster. You even took a pre-emptive shot at a poster who hadn't even posted yet! So it's a bit rich to try and pass the blame onto others for the fact that you can't keep it civil whenever Hamilton's involved. Lose the paranoia and things won't get so heated.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:33 pm
Posts: 980
POBRatings wrote:
As responses above here say: data should/must be shared for the benefit of the team.
Hamilton benefitted from seeing Alonso's data in 2007, Rosberg from Michael's 2010-2012, Lewis and Nico from each other in 2013-2016.

Lewis should be confident in his own driving ability to share data. If he then beats Bottas everyone will know it was driver and not car set-up superiority.


I agree, but as an aside: It's not just driver set-up that is being shared but different nuances which X driver has found themselves as a result of their own creativity and skill... or through their "own driving ability".


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 6:41 pm
Posts: 575
I kind of get the thinking that if by your own sense of feel and pounding round the track you find a better setup then you should keep it, everything is so heavily examined in F1 it is gold to find a bit more and should reward those with that golden touch as long as its accepted that rub's both ways but if the team see a need to share data to gain a better position for the constructors championship then they have the right to change the deal for the greater benefit of the team.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:06 am
Posts: 3180
Prost benefitted tremendously from Lauda's info and approach in 1984; Senna benefitted hugely from Prost's sharing info in 1988.
I'm surprised Lewis is not confident enough to share his data. Imo he should be. Another driver can rarely copy another's drivingr precisely, all have differing styles, strengths and weaknesses. Bottas coming into a new team would expect to get help initially from the 'number one's' info. As happens in any other team. Kovalainen recently spoke so positively of how he and Hamilton benefitted from each others' data, as did the McLaren team , back in 2008-2009.

_________________
http://grandprixratings.blogspot.com


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], JamWalsh, Laz_T800, Lord Crc, Lotus49, P-F1 Mod and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group