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 Post subject: Manor in administration
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:07 pm 
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Just heard on Radio 2 news.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:33 pm 
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That means both Gutierrez and Nasr are out of a drive, it's quite ironic that it was Nasr himself that put Manor in this position.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:40 pm 
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If true, this sounds too much like a recipe for Ron to play savior (a la Brawn @ Honda 2009) and pick up a registered F1 team for peanuts.

Who started that rumor anyway?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:52 pm 
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The situation is ridiculous. I know people say that it's always been like this for the lower teams but go back to the late nineties and even the likes of Minardi could afford to test almost every other week. These days we have about 6 test days a year and teams even as far up as Force India can't afford to attend all of them. The sport should be able to support 12 viable entries.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:00 pm 
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Time we crowdfunded a fan-owned F1 team!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:01 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
The situation is ridiculous. I know people say that it's always been like this for the lower teams but go back to the late nineties and even the likes of Minardi could afford to test almost every other week. These days we have about 6 test days a year and teams even as far up as Force India can't afford to attend all of them. The sport should be able to support 12 viable entries.

(cough) There should be a fairer distribution of prize money (cough)

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:10 pm 
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dcwinter wrote:
Time we crowdfunded a fan-owned F1 team!

Wasn't this done with another team a few years back? Or maybe a driver, I can't remember.

I think Ron should step up and throw his hat back into the F1 ring with a new project. I don't want to think he's done with F1 yet.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:14 pm 
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MistaVega23 wrote:
dcwinter wrote:
Time we crowdfunded a fan-owned F1 team!

Wasn't this done with another team a few years back? Or maybe a driver, I can't remember.

I think Ron should step up and throw his hat back into the F1 ring with a new project. I don't want to think he's done with F1 yet.


Lotus I think


No it was (https://www.wired.com/2014/11/f1-caterham-crowdfunding/)


Last edited by moby on Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:15 pm 
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MistaVega23 wrote:
dcwinter wrote:
Time we crowdfunded a fan-owned F1 team!

Wasn't this done with another team a few years back? Or maybe a driver, I can't remember.

I think Ron should step up and throw his hat back into the F1 ring with a new project. I don't want to think he's done with F1 yet.

That was for Kobayashi, I'm still disappointed we couldn't get him back :-((

Terrible news to hear about Manor though, I always quite liked the team. If only Sauber hadn't stolen it all away right at the end. It was always game over from that point.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:22 pm 
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MistaVega23 wrote:
dcwinter wrote:
Time we crowdfunded a fan-owned F1 team!

Wasn't this done with another team a few years back? Or maybe a driver, I can't remember.

I think Ron should step up and throw his hat back into the F1 ring with a new project. I don't want to think he's done with F1 yet.


When Justin Wilson was in F1 people could buy shares in him as a company, I'm not sure if any money was made out of it though.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:47 pm 
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moby wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
dcwinter wrote:
Time we crowdfunded a fan-owned F1 team!

Wasn't this done with another team a few years back? Or maybe a driver, I can't remember.

I think Ron should step up and throw his hat back into the F1 ring with a new project. I don't want to think he's done with F1 yet.


Lotus I think


No it was (https://www.wired.com/2014/11/f1-caterham-crowdfunding/)



I was meaning a properly fan-owned team that could run for the next season.

I very much doubt it would ever happen, but it would be so cool if it did!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:03 pm 
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dcwinter wrote:
moby wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
dcwinter wrote:
Time we crowdfunded a fan-owned F1 team!

Wasn't this done with another team a few years back? Or maybe a driver, I can't remember.

I think Ron should step up and throw his hat back into the F1 ring with a new project. I don't want to think he's done with F1 yet.


Lotus I think


No it was (https://www.wired.com/2014/11/f1-caterham-crowdfunding/)



I was meaning a properly fan-owned team that could run for the next season.

I very much doubt it would ever happen, but it would be so cool if it did!


And all team decisions shall be made by an official poll on the PF1 forum!... Although if that was the case I fear that it is almost inevitable that 'Lewis Hamilton' would be the answer to each and every dilemma

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:43 pm 
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moby wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
dcwinter wrote:
Time we crowdfunded a fan-owned F1 team!

Wasn't this done with another team a few years back? Or maybe a driver, I can't remember.

I think Ron should step up and throw his hat back into the F1 ring with a new project. I don't want to think he's done with F1 yet.


Lotus I think


No it was (https://www.wired.com/2014/11/f1-caterham-crowdfunding/)

The team was Caterham and the independent driver was Kobayashi.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:49 pm 
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Blackhander wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
dcwinter wrote:
Time we crowdfunded a fan-owned F1 team!

Wasn't this done with another team a few years back? Or maybe a driver, I can't remember.

I think Ron should step up and throw his hat back into the F1 ring with a new project. I don't want to think he's done with F1 yet.

That was for Kobayashi, I'm still disappointed we couldn't get him back :-((

Terrible news to hear about Manor though, I always quite liked the team. If only Sauber hadn't stolen it all away right at the end. It was always game over from that point.

How is Sauber to blame for Manor going under?

Personally this would be the prime situation for either Ron Dennis to once again acquire his own team, OR…
for Ferrari to field it's very own PROPER Jr team. The level of advancements that could be made from fielding 2 factory supported teams would help them improve immensely in the exact same way Red Bull jumped to prominence.

I would however prefer Ron snap it up as I have come to really like having him in F1. He is a no bones kind of guy who knows more than anyone about everything F1 outside of Frank who is on par with him. F1 is far better with Ron Dennis in it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:07 pm 
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Ron, with Ross Brawn and Honda?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:30 pm 
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Blackhander wrote:
dcwinter wrote:
moby wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
dcwinter wrote:
Time we crowdfunded a fan-owned F1 team!

Wasn't this done with another team a few years back? Or maybe a driver, I can't remember.

I think Ron should step up and throw his hat back into the F1 ring with a new project. I don't want to think he's done with F1 yet.


Lotus I think


No it was (https://www.wired.com/2014/11/f1-caterham-crowdfunding/)



I was meaning a properly fan-owned team that could run for the next season.

I very much doubt it would ever happen, but it would be so cool if it did!


And all team decisions shall be made by an official poll on the PF1 forum!... Although if that was the case I fear that it is almost inevitable that 'Lewis Hamilton' would be the answer to each and every dilemma

The Green Bay Packers have been operating this way for almost a century and they aren't doing too poorly. In fact many of the Wisconsinites are team owners.
A publicly funded F1 team would be just that, publicly funded, but it would have the proper people in place to run it just as all the other teams do. The issue becomes where and how the money is being spent and making sure no one is pocketing some of it for themselves somehow, though the people at Manor currently seem to all have their hearts, minds and spirits in the right place to do such a job honestly.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:44 pm 
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moby wrote:
Ron, with Ross Brawn and Honda?

I think Brawn has pretty much hinted he'd prefer to not deal with the time requirements involved with running a team, though money has the most proven track record in convincing people to change their mind and once again become motivated to get back to it.

One thing you just reminded me of was that Paddy Lowe, as far as I'm aware isn't yet officially announced at Williams either so he and Dennis together would be superb for Manor in many facets. Improvement of the team mainly, as well as acquiring more prominent sponsorship. A Dennis-Brawn-Lowe Super Team-Up would be even better, but I think the Mercedes move to bring in Lowe without consulting Brawn has left a bit of a thorn in his side for Lowe.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:49 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
moby wrote:
Ron, with Ross Brawn and Honda?

I think Brawn has pretty much hinted he'd prefer to not deal with the time requirements involved with running a team, though money has the most proven track record in convincing people to change their mind and once again become motivated to get back to it.

One thing you just reminded me of was that Paddy Lowe, as far as I'm aware isn't yet officially announced at Williams either so he and Dennis together would be superb for Manor in many facets. Improvement of the team mainly, as well as acquiring more prominent sponsorship. A Dennis-Brawn-Lowe Super Team-Up would be even better, but I think the Mercedes move to bring in Lowe without consulting Brawn has left a bit of a thorn in his side for Lowe.



Also, just as well get Capato on board, and did they not just upset the fund raising guy? dont remember his name?

Team "remember us" :twisted:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:11 pm 
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Feared those points for Sauber could be terminal. So it would sadly seem.

Fingers crossed someone will pick up the pieces. Such a pity, but for that freak result in Brazil they would have made it.... but on such things sport thrives.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:29 pm 
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It's a shame because they keep making progress as a team, only to end up back in administration and undoing all the positive work of the previous 18 months. I hope somebody invests and allows them to continue to build on their progress this time, especially as it would seem like no investment will mean the team will finally disappear.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:27 pm 
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If I was a billionaire and could afford to spend £80m a year on that team I would, however if I was buying that team I would be asking the following questions....

Is the team in any debt? if so how much and to whom?
Is there a car that would be ready for testing in February, if not could the guys work day and night to provide my two drivers with at the start of winter testing.
Who owns the factory?

If I bought the team I'd probably look at hiring Jordan King & Felipe Nasr.

However I can dream.

I hope a buyer can be found ASAP.

Also sadly I found this

http://www.skysports.com/f1/live-blog/3 ... sip-column


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:50 pm 
They need to re-model the prize money system, just take 2-3% off of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd place finishers and give everybody some prize money.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:47 am 
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What I would say is that Manor have some good people there plus the bonus of a Mercedes engine.

Let's hope a buyer can be found for the team and get some sponsorship on the car ASAP.

As for driver's there won't a problem there.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:05 pm 
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MistaVega23 wrote:
dcwinter wrote:
Time we crowdfunded a fan-owned F1 team!

Wasn't this done with another team a few years back? Or maybe a driver, I can't remember.

I think Ron should step up and throw his hat back into the F1 ring with a new project. I don't want to think he's done with F1 yet.


Brabham

http://www.executivestyle.com.au/david-brabham-plans-to-crowdfund-return-to-f1-11374t

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:13 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
dcwinter wrote:
Time we crowdfunded a fan-owned F1 team!

Wasn't this done with another team a few years back? Or maybe a driver, I can't remember.

I think Ron should step up and throw his hat back into the F1 ring with a new project. I don't want to think he's done with F1 yet.


Brabham

http://www.executivestyle.com.au/david-brabham-plans-to-crowdfund-return-to-f1-11374t


Wasn't a fund created for Kobayashi as well?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:38 pm 
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chetan_rao wrote:
If true, this sounds too much like a recipe for Ron to play savior (a la Brawn @ Honda 2009) and pick up a registered F1 team for peanuts.

Who started that rumor anyway?


A little different!
Honda in very early 2008 realised they were not competitive again.
So they diverted most of their resources into creating a fantastic car for 2009.
Then the GFC hit and Honda had no other choice than to pull out of F1.
They wanted the team and employees to be an ongoing concern so sold it to Brawn for a very reasonable price.
Brawn bolted on a Merc engine and the rest is history.
If Honda didn't have a bad 2008 F1 season, the Brawn would have been just another also ran.

So while Ron might be able to buy them out of administration, Manor aren't sitting on a ready made chassis that is the best in the field.

On the prize money, hopefully Liberty give more cash out to the whole field.
If they released an online app that had HD live coverage for $100 a year, if they got 10 Million subscribers it would equal 1 Billion. If they got 20 or 30 million it would be 2 or 3 billion dollars.
F1 earns about 1.7 Billion now in hosting fees, sponsorship, race hosting fees and TV rights.
If they started getting 2 billion for subscribers, they could lower hosting fees = lower ticket prices to attend. They could then afford to get more teams and drivers on the grid.
Maybe 13 teams with 26 drivers. All teams paid all the way to 13th place.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:30 am 
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Randine wrote:
chetan_rao wrote:
If true, this sounds too much like a recipe for Ron to play savior (a la Brawn @ Honda 2009) and pick up a registered F1 team for peanuts.

Who started that rumor anyway?


A little different!.....


Didn't intend to compare in any other sense except possibly buying a registered F1 entry for next-to-nothing. Any money saved is good money :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:48 am 
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chetan_rao wrote:
Randine wrote:
chetan_rao wrote:
If true, this sounds too much like a recipe for Ron to play savior (a la Brawn @ Honda 2009) and pick up a registered F1 team for peanuts.

Who started that rumor anyway?


A little different!.....


Didn't intend to compare in any other sense except possibly buying a registered F1 entry for next-to-nothing. Any money saved is good money :)


Ah! ;)

It would very interesting to see what Ron could do with a back marker team like Manor.
Could he get them into the upper mid field in 2 or 3 years? Quite possibly with enough cash behind him.
I hope at the very least they find a buyer and stay on the grid for 2017.
It is going to cut it really close as they are meant to go testing in 7 weeks and the First GP is about 11 weeks away...

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:59 pm 
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Randine wrote:
chetan_rao wrote:
Randine wrote:
chetan_rao wrote:
If true, this sounds too much like a recipe for Ron to play savior (a la Brawn @ Honda 2009) and pick up a registered F1 team for peanuts.

Who started that rumor anyway?


A little different!.....


Didn't intend to compare in any other sense except possibly buying a registered F1 entry for next-to-nothing. Any money saved is good money :)


Ah! ;)

It would very interesting to see what Ron could do with a back marker team like Manor.
Could he get them into the upper mid field in 2 or 3 years? Quite possibly with enough cash behind him.
I hope at the very least they find a buyer and stay on the grid for 2017.
It is going to cut it really close as they are meant to go testing in 7 weeks and the First GP is about 11 weeks away...


Just a hobby in his retirement, like I have a couple of motorcycles in the shed for a sunny sunday when I have nothing to do :D


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:19 am 
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This news sounds a bit more hopeful, especially the bit about them being given permission by the FIA to run a modified 2016 chassis.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38603355


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:49 pm 
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owenmahamilton wrote:
This news sounds a bit more hopeful, especially the bit about them being given permission by the FIA to run a modified 2016 chassis.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38603355


On the other hand, if they can only manage to develop a new car every two years (the 2015 was a modified 2014 chassis), then at one point you have to wonder what is even the point anymore.

And the situation is even much worse than in 2015. A modified 2016 car, when new regulations are kicking in this year, will be utterly hopeless. They will probably trail the pack like they did in their first seasons, they almost certainly will obtain 11th in the WCC granting them no money at all from the FIA, and then what's in store for 2018?

I would like them in a good situation, make no mistake. But this sounds very very bad.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:15 pm 
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mds wrote:
owenmahamilton wrote:
This news sounds a bit more hopeful, especially the bit about them being given permission by the FIA to run a modified 2016 chassis.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38603355


On the other hand, if they can only manage to develop a new car every two years (the 2015 was a modified 2014 chassis), then at one point you have to wonder what is even the point anymore.

And the situation is even much worse than in 2015. A modified 2016 car, when new regulations are kicking in this year, will be utterly hopeless. They will probably trail the pack like they did in their first seasons, they almost certainly will obtain 11th in the WCC granting them no money at all from the FIA, and then what's in store for 2018?

I would like them in a good situation, make no mistake. But this sounds very very bad.


They do apparently have a 2017 car designed but not built yet.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:47 pm 
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owenmahamilton wrote:
mds wrote:
owenmahamilton wrote:
This news sounds a bit more hopeful, especially the bit about them being given permission by the FIA to run a modified 2016 chassis.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38603355


On the other hand, if they can only manage to develop a new car every two years (the 2015 was a modified 2014 chassis), then at one point you have to wonder what is even the point anymore.

And the situation is even much worse than in 2015. A modified 2016 car, when new regulations are kicking in this year, will be utterly hopeless. They will probably trail the pack like they did in their first seasons, they almost certainly will obtain 11th in the WCC granting them no money at all from the FIA, and then what's in store for 2018?

I would like them in a good situation, make no mistake. But this sounds very very bad.


They do apparently have a 2017 car designed but not built yet.


Reading the above article I get the impression that they do not have a 2017 car ready. I mean, if at this point in time it is cheaper to still adapt a 2016 chassis (which also has to be built) instead of building the 2017 design, the 2017 design probably isn't in an advanced stage.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:05 pm 
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Bit on the beeb today that they have funds to stave off redundancies til the end of the month. So still hoping


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:59 pm 
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mds wrote:
owenmahamilton wrote:
mds wrote:
owenmahamilton wrote:
This news sounds a bit more hopeful, especially the bit about them being given permission by the FIA to run a modified 2016 chassis.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38603355


On the other hand, if they can only manage to develop a new car every two years (the 2015 was a modified 2014 chassis), then at one point you have to wonder what is even the point anymore.

And the situation is even much worse than in 2015. A modified 2016 car, when new regulations are kicking in this year, will be utterly hopeless. They will probably trail the pack like they did in their first seasons, they almost certainly will obtain 11th in the WCC granting them no money at all from the FIA, and then what's in store for 2018?

I would like them in a good situation, make no mistake. But this sounds very very bad.


They do apparently have a 2017 car designed but not built yet.


Reading the above article I get the impression that they do not have a 2017 car ready. I mean, if at this point in time it is cheaper to still adapt a 2016 chassis (which also has to be built) instead of building the 2017 design, the 2017 design probably isn't in an advanced stage.

Actually, none of the teams have their chassis built just yet as they are in the process of building them. As far as I know not all teams have submitted components to the FIA for crash testing which is indicative that work on their cars is still ongoing and not yet complete.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:15 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
mds wrote:
owenmahamilton wrote:
mds wrote:
owenmahamilton wrote:
This news sounds a bit more hopeful, especially the bit about them being given permission by the FIA to run a modified 2016 chassis.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38603355


On the other hand, if they can only manage to develop a new car every two years (the 2015 was a modified 2014 chassis), then at one point you have to wonder what is even the point anymore.

And the situation is even much worse than in 2015. A modified 2016 car, when new regulations are kicking in this year, will be utterly hopeless. They will probably trail the pack like they did in their first seasons, they almost certainly will obtain 11th in the WCC granting them no money at all from the FIA, and then what's in store for 2018?

I would like them in a good situation, make no mistake. But this sounds very very bad.


They do apparently have a 2017 car designed but not built yet.


Reading the above article I get the impression that they do not have a 2017 car ready. I mean, if at this point in time it is cheaper to still adapt a 2016 chassis (which also has to be built) instead of building the 2017 design, the 2017 design probably isn't in an advanced stage.

Actually, none of the teams have their chassis built just yet as they are in the process of building them. As far as I know not all teams have submitted components to the FIA for crash testing which is indicative that work on their cars is still ongoing and not yet complete.




From Jo Seward

As I understand it, there are two nearly completed 2017 monocoques and a well-developed plan to be on the grid in Melbourne, but if that is going to happen, an investor is needed now and the investment needs to be considerable.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:14 pm 
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fingers crossed, and hoping somebody comes forward in time


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:23 pm 
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moby wrote:
From Jo Seward

As I understand it, there are two nearly completed 2017 monocoques and a well-developed plan to be on the grid in Melbourne, but if that is going to happen, an investor is needed now and the investment needs to be considerable.

Precisely as I said then. :]

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:03 pm 
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It seems a last minute offer's on the table for the team. Not much detail, unfortunately

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/manor-f1-team-has-buyout-offer-865886/


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:51 pm 
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