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 Post subject: WDC package-ratings
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:00 pm 
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The packages (car-and-driver combined) are what win WDCs, so perceptions are less skewed than with some drivers or cars.
As usual in discussing F1 there are so many qualifications,ifs,buts and howevers.

There are more packages here than there were the 67 seasons 1950-2016. Reason is that some drivers used two car types or even two manufacturers to win their WDCs. eg Ascari started the 1953 season in the 1952 Ferrari 500/52 before switching to the new FErrari 500/53 type. Hulme in 1967 initially drove the Brabham-Repco BT20/24 then the new BT24. Stewart in 1969 drove the Matra-Cosworth MS10 initially, then the new MS80.

Each package I measure separately, even if the same make but just different types. Consequently my percentages do not add up to 100.0% here.

Most WDC winners Package-rated top at 100.0: 62.7%.
An overwhelming 93.1% package-rated faster than 100.5 (ie in the 100.0 to 100.5 bracket).

Just 5 packages or 6.9% were outliers/underdogs. IE those that package-rated slower than 100.5 (ie at 100.6 and slower).
The slowest WDC package of all was the Ascari /Ferrari 500/52 that he started the 1953 season in, did just 2 races but won both! This package-rated at 101.0.

As with the other WDC stats, there were many surprise ratings: eg the 1954 Fangio /Mercedes-Benz W196 open-wheeled version package-rated at 100.4, and that same season his Maserati 250F at only 100.9; in 1979 the Scheckter/Ferrari T4 package-rated at only 100.5; etc.

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Last edited by POBRatings on Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: WDC package-ratings
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:16 pm 
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Also depends on whether there is competition within teams surely?


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 Post subject: Re: WDC package-ratings
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:06 pm 
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F1Oz wrote:
Also depends on whether there is competition within teams surely?


Within-team competition is important. A team-mate is the greatest threat to any driver going for the WDC, having the same equipment. But only if the team-mate is fast enough. Good examples when team-mates were both fast, close-matched and virtually shared the wins : Hamilton-Rosberg 2016; Prost-Senna in 1988-89; Piquet-Mansell in 1986. Fangio and Clark did not have this problem.

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Last edited by POBRatings on Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: WDC package-ratings
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:02 am 
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Collating my findings regarding the fastest Packages to have won the WDCs, a change of pattern emerged:
For the decades 50s, 60s,70s and 80s, a consistent 40-50% of the WDCs had the season's fastest Package.
For the 90s all ten WDCs had the fastest package of the season.
The 2000s it was 70%.
For the 2010-2016 era it was 100% again, as each of the 7 WDCs had the fastest package.

Converging info? Knowledge? ? Anyone

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 Post subject: Re: WDC package-ratings
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:44 pm 
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One reason for the recent decades' WDCs having the highest percentage of fatsest packages is the 'evening up' of circuit length and type.

Until the 70s the circuit variation was huge: from Monaco's 3.3 km to the Nurburg's 23km lap, Spa's 13km, Monza's 10km with the bankings and the road circuit combined, AVUS, flat out Reims with just three corners, etc.
Today most circuits are about the same lap length of 4-6 km; little variation in the artificial type.
Increased knowledge apart, today it must consequently be so much easier to design cars and set-ups than in earlier times.

Another reason must be that Car variations were much wider before 1972. By then all had side radiators, wings, aerofoils, airboxes a-la-Lotus 72.

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 Post subject: Re: WDC package-ratings
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:18 am 
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POBRatings wrote:
Collating my findings regarding the fastest Packages to have won the WDCs, a change of pattern emerged:
For the decades 50s, 60s,70s and 80s, a consistent 40-50% of the WDCs had the season's fastest Package.
For the 90s all ten WDCs had the fastest package of the season.
The 2000s it was 70%.
For the 2010-2016 era it was 100% again, as each of the 7 WDCs had the fastest package.

Converging info? Knowledge? ? Anyone


I think the 99 Ferrari was the best package - after all, Eddie nearly won despite playing second fiddle for the first part of the season to Michael - and would have won if Ferrari didn't sabotage him (not deliberate) by coming out with 3 tyres for a pitstop and costing him more points than he lost out by (ok and due to the FIA failing to disqualify both Ferrari in Malaysia when they failed scrutineering but got away with the appeal because the FIA had given the cars back and they got off on a technicality - also given Ferrari successfully got parts banned on the McLaren that (if they had stayed) would have made the McL much better


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 Post subject: Re: WDC package-ratings
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:53 am 
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F1Oz wrote:
POBRatings wrote:
Collating my findings regarding the fastest Packages to have won the WDCs, a change of pattern emerged:
For the decades 50s, 60s,70s and 80s, a consistent 40-50% of the WDCs had the season's fastest Package.
For the 90s all ten WDCs had the fastest package of the season.
The 2000s it was 70%.
For the 2010-2016 era it was 100% again, as each of the 7 WDCs had the fastest package.

Converging info? Knowledge? ? Anyone


I think the 99 Ferrari was the best package - after all, Eddie nearly won despite playing second fiddle for the first part of the season to Michael - and would have won if Ferrari didn't sabotage him (not deliberate) by coming out with 3 tyres for a pitstop and costing him more points than he lost out by (ok and due to the FIA failing to disqualify both Ferrari in Malaysia when they failed scrutineering but got away with the appeal because the FIA had given the cars back and they got off on a technicality - also given Ferrari successfully got parts banned on the McLaren that (if they had stayed) would have made the McL much better

Sorry for nitpicking, but by definition sabotage is a deliberate act.


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 Post subject: Re: WDC package-ratings
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:35 pm 
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Should Mercedes in 2014-2016 or Ferrari 1996-2006 have had team orders/a definite number one driver?
Ferrari score din terms of marketing and media exposure by favouring Michael Schumacher. Whereas Mercedes, like Mclaren-Honda years earlier, allowed their two drivers to compete.
Allowing team-mates to compete and not favouring one, is much better for the sport, for fans and the media.
Favouring one driver does ensure a more sure path to wins and championships, as Ferrari showed with Schumacher.

A classic example that clearly illustrated the two opposing approaches was the 1973 season, when Jackie Stewart won the WDC for the third time driving for Tyrrell.
In the 1973 Tyrrell team Stewart was the number one driver, like Schumacher and most others were, due to his superiority in speed, ability and experience. His team-mate was the young Francois Cevert, who appreciated Stewart's open attitude and coaching. This was much like the amicable Schumacher-Massa pairing at Ferrari in 2006 or Fangio-Moss in 1955 with Mercedes-Benz.

The strongest rival to the Tyrrell team in 1973 was Lotus. With Fittipaldi and Peterson as drivers, they were formidable. Lotus's Colin Chapman did not impose team orders nor have a nominated a number one driver. LIke Mercedes with Hamilton-Rosberg, Lotus allowed Fittipaldi-Peterson to race each other.

Results compared: Stewart became WDC with 5 wins, while Peterson scored 4 and Fittipaldi 2 wins, Cevert none.
Team results: Lotus 7 wins, Tyrrell 5; podiums Lotus 15, Tyrrell 15. Poles Lotus 11, Tyrrell only 2. 1st and 2nd places: TYrrell 3, Lotus 1.

Pole-scoring apart, these are really close results, from two opposing approaches.

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 Post subject: Re: WDC package-ratings
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:29 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
F1Oz wrote:
POBRatings wrote:
Collating my findings regarding the fastest Packages to have won the WDCs, a change of pattern emerged:
For the decades 50s, 60s,70s and 80s, a consistent 40-50% of the WDCs had the season's fastest Package.
For the 90s all ten WDCs had the fastest package of the season.
The 2000s it was 70%.
For the 2010-2016 era it was 100% again, as each of the 7 WDCs had the fastest package.

Converging info? Knowledge? ? Anyone


I think the 99 Ferrari was the best package - after all, Eddie nearly won despite playing second fiddle for the first part of the season to Michael - and would have won if Ferrari didn't sabotage him (not deliberate) by coming out with 3 tyres for a pitstop and costing him more points than he lost out by (ok and due to the FIA failing to disqualify both Ferrari in Malaysia when they failed scrutineering but got away with the appeal because the FIA had given the cars back and they got off on a technicality - also given Ferrari successfully got parts banned on the McLaren that (if they had stayed) would have made the McL much better

Sorry for nitpicking, but by definition sabotage is a deliberate act.


Well, it probably wasn't deliberate - but MS had brought 'his' team to Ferrari from Benneton - and it was highly unusual for the professional team that Ferrari was to not have the tyre ready for Eddie - and it certainly cost him the WDC - but the MS side of the garage and MS himself would not have wanted EI to have been the one to have broken the WDC drought for Ferrari - so put your tin foil hats on lol


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