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 Post subject: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:15 pm 
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So it's become clear over testing that Mclaren are not going to compete for the WDC, nor are they going to win races. Even with free development of the engine, it would be a miracle if they are fighting for podiums by the end of the season.

Alonso has 1 year left on his contract, and he will be 36 by the end of this season. His options:
1. Hope Bottas does not get renewed for a 2nd year and push for the Mercedes drive. However, he would have to compete against Hamilton, so no guarantee of a championship even if he did have the best car. Toto already touched on why he went for Bottas and not Alonso (they would too many headaches with an Alonso/Hamilton partnership). That won't change. Would Mercedes want to go for a 36 year old, or would they rather develop someone younger?

2. Return to Ferrari. Seems unlikely with Vettel still there.

3. Go to Red Bull. Seems out of the question given their young driver programme.

4. Stick it out at Mclaren-Honda and hope they come good. How much patience does he have? He would have expected them to be a top 4 team by now, but they are not even close. His patience ran out at Ferrari after 5 years, and that was after 2 years of being a WDC contender, and 4 years of being a regular podium contender. His patience ran out in 2014 when he only managed 3 podiums, though if he was offered that now, he would bite your hand off!.

5. Return to Renault. It's where he had the most success and the only other works team.

6. Go to Williams/Force India/Haas - seems unlikely that he would go for a team destined to be in the midfield.

7. Retire.

Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:34 pm 
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I think his only realistic options if he wants another championship will be McLaren or Renault, both of which will require some patience and time which unfortunately Fernando doesn't really have in abundance right now.

If Bottas is being clearly outperformed by Hamilton and letting the team down early in the season Alonso should be straight on the phone to Toto IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:25 pm 
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I think Alonso had done his chances of getting a top drive a lot of harm by his outspokenness over the Honda engine.

Its OK for Mclaren to be good and Honda bad, but what about Merc and Ferrari? they come from the same shop.
Renault were not pleased with Horner, if the spectre of Alonso was there too it woud not be in their interest to "approve" him (not that they do approve RBR drivers, but it must be in their mind)

He would have done better to keep his head down


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:59 pm 
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Seriously, I think his mind would be exploding right now of the prospects of seeking success elsewhere and join another team.

However, the idea of a future, uprising Renault would not be that crazy. Renault have shown time and time again that they know what they're doing.
Honda on the other hand... since 1991 never won anything. Thats 26 years ago!


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:01 pm 
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i dont think he will win another championship. no chance with mclaren in the next 3 years i say, and he wont get a drive at merc, rb or ferrari. im not an alonso fan so that doesnt bother me. what does bother me is not seeing him at least somewhere near the front where he could cause some 'damage' and make the races more exciting. it seems so long ago that he was hustling the ferrari into places it shouldnt have been. he has to take some of the blame for the position he finds himself though.

he can stay at mclaren and hope. but i would expect only maybe this year and next. At least honda have a chance to fix it this year. but they wont because they are dog***k


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:35 pm 
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Perhaps he is just happy to stay at Mclaren and take the squillions of dollars and then retire or move onto somthing else.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:45 pm 
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I said it on another thread but I think Ferrari's competitiveness will decide what happens here. If they are right up there then I think Seb stays and Alonso becomes a realistic option for Mercedes if Bottas under-performs. Either McLaren or Mercedes in this scenario.

If Ferrari fall away to third behind Red Bull again then I think Mercedes make Seb an offer he can't refuse and he leaves freeing up a seat at Ferrari. In this scenario I think Alonso and Ferrari could mend bridges or he stays at McLaren.

He kinda ruled out Renault at this stage the other day and no chance he joins a non-works outfit other than Red Bull who are a non-starter, it's just not their MO, so I think it will be one of those 3(McLaren/Mercedes/Ferrari). Probably a 1+1yr deal if it's McLaren so he doesn't get locked in if it's a failure. 2yrs for the others.

The way he's talking I can't see retirement any time soon and I don't even think his next contract will be his last.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:06 am 
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moby wrote:
I think Alonso had done his chances of getting a top drive a lot of harm by his outspokenness over the Honda engine.

Its OK for Mclaren to be good and Honda bad, but what about Merc and Ferrari? they come from the same shop.
Renault were not pleased with Horner, if the spectre of Alonso was there too it woud not be in their interest to "approve" him (not that they do approve RBR drivers, but it must be in their mind)

He would have done better to keep his head down


Nobody's going to not hire the best driver of his generation because they're afraid of criticism.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:07 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
moby wrote:
I think Alonso had done his chances of getting a top drive a lot of harm by his outspokenness over the Honda engine.

Its OK for Mclaren to be good and Honda bad, but what about Merc and Ferrari? they come from the same shop.
Renault were not pleased with Horner, if the spectre of Alonso was there too it woud not be in their interest to "approve" him (not that they do approve RBR drivers, but it must be in their mind)

He would have done better to keep his head down


Nobody's going to not hire the best driver of his generation because they're afraid of criticism.


True. After 2 years of failure and the 3rd year looking the same with Honda, Alonso has had enough. No driver can bear such incompetence. Alonso is not some 18 year old who can wait forever. He has the desire to win still and that's applaudable.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:47 am 
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Lotus49 wrote:
I said it on another thread but I think Ferrari's competitiveness will decide what happens here. If they are right up there then I think Seb stays and Alonso becomes a realistic option for Mercedes if Bottas under-performs. Either McLaren or Mercedes in this scenario.

If Ferrari fall away to third behind Red Bull again then I think Mercedes make Seb an offer he can't refuse and he leaves freeing up a seat at Ferrari. In this scenario I think Alonso and Ferrari could mend bridges or he stays at McLaren.

He kinda ruled out Renault at this stage the other day and no chance he joins a non-works outfit other than Red Bull who are a non-starter, it's just not their MO, so I think it will be one of those 3(McLaren/Mercedes/Ferrari). Probably a 1+1yr deal if it's McLaren so he doesn't get locked in if it's a failure. 2yrs for the others.

The way he's talking I can't see retirement any time soon and I don't even think his next contract will be his last.

I think you're making a lot of leaps here. Judging by Mercedes' actions, they do not intend to go after Fernando Alonso or Sebastian Vettel in the immediate future. Unless things unfold in an unforeseeable and catastrophic fashion for Merc this season, I think they will be most likely to just re-sign Bottas. If they do decide to go after an elite driver, Ricciardo or Verstappen are more likely than Alonso or Vettel, who are basically Hamilton's contemporaries.

As for Ferrari, I think that ship has sailed. I don't see Vettel going anywhere. Things are just starting to get good there. They seem to have done well with the new regs and I think Seb will be content to stick around for a while. Even if Raikkonen retires I think they'd be more likely to sign Grosjean, Perez or Hulk or go after one of the Red Bull youngsters than to sign Alonso.

I think it might not be so easy for Alonso to find a seat at a top team. A move to Renault might be well timed but it would still be a long shot. Definitely a lot of 'wrong place wrong time' in this man's career.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:50 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
moby wrote:
I think Alonso had done his chances of getting a top drive a lot of harm by his outspokenness over the Honda engine.

Its OK for Mclaren to be good and Honda bad, but what about Merc and Ferrari? they come from the same shop.
Renault were not pleased with Horner, if the spectre of Alonso was there too it woud not be in their interest to "approve" him (not that they do approve RBR drivers, but it must be in their mind)

He would have done better to keep his head down


Nobody's going to not hire the best driver of his generation because they're afraid of criticism.

Your opinion that he's the best not withstanding, there are several teams with drivers that they feel are every bit as good and younger. Neither Mercedes, Red Bull nor Ferrari are envious of McLaren in the driver department and in fact they are more likely to view Fernando as an older, less desirable option to what they already have.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:49 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
moby wrote:
I think Alonso had done his chances of getting a top drive a lot of harm by his outspokenness over the Honda engine.

Its OK for Mclaren to be good and Honda bad, but what about Merc and Ferrari? they come from the same shop.
Renault were not pleased with Horner, if the spectre of Alonso was there too it woud not be in their interest to "approve" him (not that they do approve RBR drivers, but it must be in their mind)

He would have done better to keep his head down


Nobody's going to not hire the best driver of his generation because they're afraid of criticism.

Your opinion that he's the best not withstanding, there are several teams with drivers that they feel are every bit as good and younger. Neither Mercedes, Red Bull nor Ferrari are envious of McLaren in the driver department and in fact they are more likely to view Fernando as an older, less desirable option to what they already have.


This. That seems to be Alonso's major problem now: he needs a top team far more than the top teams need him. They all have one or two of the very best drivers.

So realistically it's staying at McLaren or going to Renault. And whatever he chooses, the other choice will prove to have been the right one given his luck :p

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:41 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
moby wrote:
I think Alonso had done his chances of getting a top drive a lot of harm by his outspokenness over the Honda engine.

Its OK for Mclaren to be good and Honda bad, but what about Merc and Ferrari? they come from the same shop.
Renault were not pleased with Horner, if the spectre of Alonso was there too it woud not be in their interest to "approve" him (not that they do approve RBR drivers, but it must be in their mind)

He would have done better to keep his head down


Nobody's going to not hire the best driver of his generation because they're afraid of criticism.

Your opinion that he's the best not withstanding, there are several teams with drivers that they feel are every bit as good and younger. Neither Mercedes, Red Bull nor Ferrari are envious of McLaren in the driver department and in fact they are more likely to view Fernando as an older, less desirable option to what they already have.


Alonso being the best is not really the main point. The main is that he is good enough that a team is not going to be put off signing him because over the course of 24 months he has occasionally offered up some very warranted criticism.

I am not disputing that they may not sign him for other reasons.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:24 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
moby wrote:
I think Alonso had done his chances of getting a top drive a lot of harm by his outspokenness over the Honda engine.

Its OK for Mclaren to be good and Honda bad, but what about Merc and Ferrari? they come from the same shop.
Renault were not pleased with Horner, if the spectre of Alonso was there too it woud not be in their interest to "approve" him (not that they do approve RBR drivers, but it must be in their mind)

He would have done better to keep his head down


Nobody's going to not hire the best driver of his generation because they're afraid of criticism.


I don't see team managers falling over themselves and firing their drivers to hire Alonso because he is the best(your opinion).
They will be extremely stupid to do so and as someone said earlier Alonso needs a Top Team more than the Top Teams need him.

He needs to stay put at McLaren and possibly not demoralise some engineers like he successfully did during his stint in Ferrari.

McLaren is Alonso's 6th team(Minardi, Renault, McLaren, Renault, Ferrari, McLaren).. that's a LOT for a driver of his reputation.

Teams will usually do all they can to retain their best drivers/players/riders. You will not see Messi/Ronaldo/Neymar/Neuer or Marquez/Lorenzo/Rossi constantly changing teams left and right.

There is something that Alonso really f*cked up and I don't believe we can all put it down to "bad luck".


Last edited by Pullrod on Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:37 am 
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What he needs is patience,collaboration and perhaps a bit of luck : )
I to belive he is the best of this generation, but younger talent are knocking on the door.

Perhaps he might be the only one who has won with every engine brand available?

It's a different goal to restart McLaren than what others have taken on.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:41 am 
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Pullrod wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
moby wrote:
I think Alonso had done his chances of getting a top drive a lot of harm by his outspokenness over the Honda engine.

Its OK for Mclaren to be good and Honda bad, but what about Merc and Ferrari? they come from the same shop.
Renault were not pleased with Horner, if the spectre of Alonso was there too it woud not be in their interest to "approve" him (not that they do approve RBR drivers, but it must be in their mind)

He would have done better to keep his head down


Nobody's going to not hire the best driver of his generation because they're afraid of criticism.


I don't see team managers falling over themselves and firing their drivers to hire Alonso because he is the best(your opinion).
They will be extremely stupid to do so and as someone said earlier Alonso needs a Top Team more than the Top Teams need him.

He needs to stay put at McLaren and possibly not demoralise some engineers like he successfully did during his stint in Ferrari.

McLaren is Alonso's 6th team(Minardi, Renault, McLaren, Renault, Ferrari, McLaren).. that's a LOT for a driver of his reputation.


4th team. You said Mclaren and Renault twice. Obviously Alonso must be ok to work with or people wouldn't keep asking him back :smug:

Of the 16 drivers with over 200 grand prixs only 3 have driven for fewer teams. Rosberg, Coulthard and Massa.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:44 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
moby wrote:
I think Alonso had done his chances of getting a top drive a lot of harm by his outspokenness over the Honda engine.

Its OK for Mclaren to be good and Honda bad, but what about Merc and Ferrari? they come from the same shop.
Renault were not pleased with Horner, if the spectre of Alonso was there too it woud not be in their interest to "approve" him (not that they do approve RBR drivers, but it must be in their mind)

He would have done better to keep his head down


Nobody's going to not hire the best driver of his generation because they're afraid of criticism.


I don't see team managers falling over themselves and firing their drivers to hire Alonso because he is the best(your opinion).
They will be extremely stupid to do so and as someone said earlier Alonso needs a Top Team more than the Top Teams need him.

He needs to stay put at McLaren and possibly not demoralise some engineers like he successfully did during his stint in Ferrari.

McLaren is Alonso's 6th team(Minardi, Renault, McLaren, Renault, Ferrari, McLaren).. that's a LOT for a driver of his reputation.


4th team. You said Mclaren and Renault twice. Obviously Alonso must be ok to work with or people wouldn't keep asking him back :smug:

Of the 16 drivers with over 200 grand prixs only 3 have driven for fewer teams. Rosberg, Coulthard and Massa.


You know what I mean... Alonso has changed teams 5(five) times(do you prefer this version? :) ) If you keep moving how do you expect to catch the good things? That's essentially the story of Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

Why should Mercedes or RedBull hire Alonso when they know that if they produce bad cars he will not have the patience and will just retire or change team?


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:50 am 
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Pullrod wrote:
You know what I mean... Alonso has changed teams 5(five) times(do you prefer this version? :) ) If you keep moving how do you expect to catch the good things? That's essentially the story of Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

Why should Mercedes or RedBull hire Alonso when they know that if they produce bad cars he will not have the patience and will just retire or change team?

Formula one's new management should seriously try to make sure he has a competitive car again (at least one season) before he retires. Just for the good of the sport, for the improvement of the show and for more excitement up there.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:51 am 
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Pullrod wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
moby wrote:
I think Alonso had done his chances of getting a top drive a lot of harm by his outspokenness over the Honda engine.

Its OK for Mclaren to be good and Honda bad, but what about Merc and Ferrari? they come from the same shop.
Renault were not pleased with Horner, if the spectre of Alonso was there too it woud not be in their interest to "approve" him (not that they do approve RBR drivers, but it must be in their mind)

He would have done better to keep his head down


Nobody's going to not hire the best driver of his generation because they're afraid of criticism.


I don't see team managers falling over themselves and firing their drivers to hire Alonso because he is the best(your opinion).
They will be extremely stupid to do so and as someone said earlier Alonso needs a Top Team more than the Top Teams need him.

He needs to stay put at McLaren and possibly not demoralise some engineers like he successfully did during his stint in Ferrari.

McLaren is Alonso's 6th team(Minardi, Renault, McLaren, Renault, Ferrari, McLaren).. that's a LOT for a driver of his reputation.

Teams will usually do all they can to retain their best drivers/players/riders. You will not see Messi/Ronaldo/Neymar/Neuer or Marquez/Lorenzo/Rossi constantly changing teams left and right.

There is something that Alonso really f*cked up and I don't believe we can all put it down to "bad luck".

I'm not sure any managers are going to be put off by the number of teams Alonso has had. He's been somewhat unlucky with his choices, it's true, but from a driving perspective there's little wrong with him.

Whether Alonso gets a chance to go anywhere depends entirely on how competitive the field is, IMO. If it's more of the same from the last three years, I don't see him having many options. If, however, things close up at the sharp end, then having a top driver like Alonso can make all the difference. If teams like Mercedes or Ferrari start seeing their WCC positions put at risk, I think they'll take a lot more interest in Alonso.

Having said that, I hope against hope that McLaren Honda sort themselves out. I think it's beyond sad that a team like McLaren has been in this situation for so long. It's easy to forget that they were once an absolute power in the sport, 2nd only to Ferrari in consistent competitiveness. Personally, I think F1 needs McLaren at the front again


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:52 am 
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nixxxon wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
You know what I mean... Alonso has changed teams 5(five) times(do you prefer this version? :) ) If you keep moving how do you expect to catch the good things? That's essentially the story of Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

Why should Mercedes or RedBull hire Alonso when they know that if they produce bad cars he will not have the patience and will just retire or change team?

Formula one's new management should seriously try to make sure he has a competitive car again (at least one season) before he retires. Just for the good of the sport, for the improvement of the show and for more excitement up there.

This is like having the teacher make other kids play with the one kid no one wants to play with.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:59 am 
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Covalent wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
You know what I mean... Alonso has changed teams 5(five) times(do you prefer this version? :) ) If you keep moving how do you expect to catch the good things? That's essentially the story of Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

Why should Mercedes or RedBull hire Alonso when they know that if they produce bad cars he will not have the patience and will just retire or change team?

Formula one's new management should seriously try to make sure he has a competitive car again (at least one season) before he retires. Just for the good of the sport, for the improvement of the show and for more excitement up there.

This is like having the teacher make other kids play with the one kid no one wants to play with.

Nonsense example
This is like helping someone who is in trouble because of external factors, ie war refugees.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:04 am 
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nixxxon wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
You know what I mean... Alonso has changed teams 5(five) times(do you prefer this version? :) ) If you keep moving how do you expect to catch the good things? That's essentially the story of Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

Why should Mercedes or RedBull hire Alonso when they know that if they produce bad cars he will not have the patience and will just retire or change team?

Formula one's new management should seriously try to make sure he has a competitive car again (at least one season) before he retires. Just for the good of the sport, for the improvement of the show and for more excitement up there.


Alonso's mistake was to leave(and insult) Ferrari in the first place. Had he kept his mouth shut, I have no doubt they would have found a way to have him back if necessary.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:06 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
I said it on another thread but I think Ferrari's competitiveness will decide what happens here. If they are right up there then I think Seb stays and Alonso becomes a realistic option for Mercedes if Bottas under-performs. Either McLaren or Mercedes in this scenario.

If Ferrari fall away to third behind Red Bull again then I think Mercedes make Seb an offer he can't refuse and he leaves freeing up a seat at Ferrari. In this scenario I think Alonso and Ferrari could mend bridges or he stays at McLaren.

He kinda ruled out Renault at this stage the other day and no chance he joins a non-works outfit other than Red Bull who are a non-starter, it's just not their MO, so I think it will be one of those 3(McLaren/Mercedes/Ferrari). Probably a 1+1yr deal if it's McLaren so he doesn't get locked in if it's a failure. 2yrs for the others.

The way he's talking I can't see retirement any time soon and I don't even think his next contract will be his last.

I think you're making a lot of leaps here. Judging by Mercedes' actions, they do not intend to go after Fernando Alonso or Sebastian Vettel in the immediate future. Unless things unfold in an unforeseeable and catastrophic fashion for Merc this season, I think they will be most likely to just re-sign Bottas. If they do decide to go after an elite driver, Ricciardo or Verstappen are more likely than Alonso or Vettel, who are basically Hamilton's contemporaries.

As for Ferrari, I think that ship has sailed. I don't see Vettel going anywhere. Things are just starting to get good there. They seem to have done well with the new regs and I think Seb will be content to stick around for a while. Even if Raikkonen retires I think they'd be more likely to sign Grosjean, Perez or Hulk or go after one of the Red Bull youngsters than to sign Alonso.

I think it might not be so easy for Alonso to find a seat at a top team. A move to Renault might be well timed but it would still be a long shot. Definitely a lot of 'wrong place wrong time' in this man's career.

I don't agree at all, giving Bottas a 1 year deal leaves the door wide open for Mercedes to approach Vettel or Alonso in the event Bottas doesn't live up to expectations.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:09 am 
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nixxxon wrote:
Covalent wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
You know what I mean... Alonso has changed teams 5(five) times(do you prefer this version? :) ) If you keep moving how do you expect to catch the good things? That's essentially the story of Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

Why should Mercedes or RedBull hire Alonso when they know that if they produce bad cars he will not have the patience and will just retire or change team?

Formula one's new management should seriously try to make sure he has a competitive car again (at least one season) before he retires. Just for the good of the sport, for the improvement of the show and for more excitement up there.

This is like having the teacher make other kids play with the one kid no one wants to play with.

Nonsense example
This is like helping someone who is in trouble because of external factors, ie war refugees.


Alonso sistuation is nothing compared to this serious stuff. Very bad example.. sorry.

In Alonso case, external factors are not how I will call them. He made a series of mistakes and behaved like Big Corporations do eliminating competition to win all of what is available.
There was no competitive environment in Ferrari like in RedBull or Mercedes where Hamilton/Ricciardo engineers do all their best to beat Rosberg/Verstappen engineers.

He also made friendship with some wrong(understatement) people.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:35 am 
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Pullrod wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
You know what I mean... Alonso has changed teams 5(five) times(do you prefer this version? :) ) If you keep moving how do you expect to catch the good things? That's essentially the story of Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

Why should Mercedes or RedBull hire Alonso when they know that if they produce bad cars he will not have the patience and will just retire or change team?

Formula one's new management should seriously try to make sure he has a competitive car again (at least one season) before he retires. Just for the good of the sport, for the improvement of the show and for more excitement up there.


Alonso's mistake was to leave(and insult) Ferrari in the first place. Had he kept his mouth shut, I have no doubt they would have found a way to have him back if necessary.

Insult? How?


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:37 am 
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Pullrod wrote:
Alonso sistuation is nothing compared to this serious stuff. Very bad example.. sorry.

In Alonso case, external factors are not how I will call them. He made a series of mistakes and behaved like Big Corporations do eliminating competition to win all of what is available.
There was no competitive environment in Ferrari like in RedBull or Mercedes where Hamilton/Ricciardo engineers do all their best to beat Rosberg/Verstappen engineers.

He also made friendship with some wrong(understatement) people.

I was giving an example of external factors escaping the control of Alonso himself, which is true.
He can't control or predict the future competitiveness of F1 teams, no driver can.
He has happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time so many times, its ridiculous.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:38 am 
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nixxxon wrote:
Covalent wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
You know what I mean... Alonso has changed teams 5(five) times(do you prefer this version? :) ) If you keep moving how do you expect to catch the good things? That's essentially the story of Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

Why should Mercedes or RedBull hire Alonso when they know that if they produce bad cars he will not have the patience and will just retire or change team?

Formula one's new management should seriously try to make sure he has a competitive car again (at least one season) before he retires. Just for the good of the sport, for the improvement of the show and for more excitement up there.

This is like having the teacher make other kids play with the one kid no one wants to play with.

Nonsense example
This is like helping someone who is in trouble because of external factors, ie war refugees.


That makes no sense at all. Alonso is his own man, responsible to make his own deals. He could have handled the situation at McLaren way differently, remained there and maybe gotten two more titles. He could have joined RBR when he still could ten years ago, and things would have looked so differently (possibly looking at a 7-fold WDC winner Alonso).

But in F1, you basically roll the dice and that is not guaranteed to be a success.

Why we need the governing body in F1 to interfere, I have no idea. This is something for teams and drivers, and definitely not up to management of F1 itself. It would mean partisanship of the governing body to one driver, which is unfair to begin with. You don't solve a lack of luck by introducing unfairness into it.

And even then, what if they had gotten him into Mercedes for this year, then Ferrari runs away with it?

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:48 am 
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nixxxon wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
You know what I mean... Alonso has changed teams 5(five) times(do you prefer this version? :) ) If you keep moving how do you expect to catch the good things? That's essentially the story of Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

Why should Mercedes or RedBull hire Alonso when they know that if they produce bad cars he will not have the patience and will just retire or change team?

Formula one's new management should seriously try to make sure he has a competitive car again (at least one season) before he retires. Just for the good of the sport, for the improvement of the show and for more excitement up there.


Alonso's mistake was to leave(and insult) Ferrari in the first place. Had he kept his mouth shut, I have no doubt they would have found a way to have him back if necessary.

Insult? How?


It is a good thing you don't read Italian because there are plenty of examples on Google.

- Alonso said he had enough of finishing in 2nd place and Ferrari can not build a car to win a championship, hence he chose McLaren
- Briatore said refering to Ferrari "it is the same oven and the same flour(Ferrari), so they will produce the same bread(bad car)"
- Briatore and Alonso did Mock Mattiacci when he was fired
- Alonso last season did not miss any occasion to make fun of Ferrari/Vettel
- and many other examples

There are plenty of team radios when he was a Ferrari driver but I will leave it out.

First thing Fernando had to do was to fix his attitude, but nothing has changed so far and this is the reason the "bad luck" thing is just an invention to a certain extent.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:14 am 
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Fernando was pretty positive about every aspect of the McLaren aside from Honda. I genuinely wonder if, should Honda fail to make any real progress through the early part of 2017, we might hear stories about how Alonso has told McLaren he's only willing to stay at the team beyond this year if they ditch Honda.

If he does leave McLaren, and if Bottas hasn't had a good year - and neither Ocon nor Wehrlein are doing anything special to put themselves in the frame to replace him for 2018 - then I could absolutely see Mercedes entertaining the idea of an Alonso/Hamilton partnership for next year. I know they ruled it out for 2017 but that was because they had the Bottas option. If that doesn't work out and neither of their young drivers look ready to step up, I think they go for Alonso and hope it doesn't implode. Otherwise it would seem like Renault is the only other option, and even then I personally believe the only way they become an attractive choice is if they're looking strong. I just can't see him being bothered to go to another team with the hope that they become competitive. It also wouldn't shock me to see him return to Ferrari; his departure from McLaren was a lot more acrimonious and he went back there, so why not? Not that I expect it to happen, however. It just wouldn't shock me if it did!

Ultimately though I reckon it would be Mercedes, McLaren or leaving F1 entirely.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:38 am 
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nixxxon wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
Alonso sistuation is nothing compared to this serious stuff. Very bad example.. sorry.

In Alonso case, external factors are not how I will call them. He made a series of mistakes and behaved like Big Corporations do eliminating competition to win all of what is available.
There was no competitive environment in Ferrari like in RedBull or Mercedes where Hamilton/Ricciardo engineers do all their best to beat Rosberg/Verstappen engineers.

He also made friendship with some wrong(understatement) people.

I was giving an example of external factors escaping the control of Alonso himself, which is true.
He can't control or predict the future competitiveness of F1 teams, no driver can.
He has happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time so many times, its ridiculous.


He should get a better manager then. You can't have the FIA dictating which driver goes where, drivers have to find their own seats


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:38 am 
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Pullrod wrote:
You know what I mean... Alonso has changed teams 5(five) times(do you prefer this version? :) ) If you keep moving how do you expect to catch the good things? That's essentially the story of Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

Why should Mercedes or RedBull hire Alonso when they know that if they produce bad cars he will not have the patience and will just retire or change team?


Worked for Fangio!


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:45 am 
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I imagine he'll stick with McLaren the whole year regardless of performance just to keep his skills sharp for '18. A sabbatical wouldn't have helped him with the new regs and, let's be honest, everyone in the paddock knows the talent Alonso possesses.

If he doesn't get a top drive for next season then he'll walk, is my guess.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:59 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
Alonso sistuation is nothing compared to this serious stuff. Very bad example.. sorry.

In Alonso case, external factors are not how I will call them. He made a series of mistakes and behaved like Big Corporations do eliminating competition to win all of what is available.
There was no competitive environment in Ferrari like in RedBull or Mercedes where Hamilton/Ricciardo engineers do all their best to beat Rosberg/Verstappen engineers.

He also made friendship with some wrong(understatement) people.

I was giving an example of external factors escaping the control of Alonso himself, which is true.
He can't control or predict the future competitiveness of F1 teams, no driver can.
He has happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time so many times, its ridiculous.


He should get a better manager then. You can't have the FIA dictating which driver goes where, drivers have to find their own seats


All his moves (bar the move back to Renault in 2008) have made sense on paper. Alonso's management team aren't responsible for the rubbish Ferrari and Honda have provided him for the last 7 years.
Changing management isn't the answer.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:35 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
Alonso sistuation is nothing compared to this serious stuff. Very bad example.. sorry.

In Alonso case, external factors are not how I will call them. He made a series of mistakes and behaved like Big Corporations do eliminating competition to win all of what is available.
There was no competitive environment in Ferrari like in RedBull or Mercedes where Hamilton/Ricciardo engineers do all their best to beat Rosberg/Verstappen engineers.

He also made friendship with some wrong(understatement) people.

I was giving an example of external factors escaping the control of Alonso himself, which is true.
He can't control or predict the future competitiveness of F1 teams, no driver can.
He has happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time so many times, its ridiculous.


He should get a better manager then. You can't have the FIA dictating which driver goes where, drivers have to find their own seats

Its true, but think about it, its the only "sport" in the world where it can happen that the best sportsmen can't win due to competitive disadvantages. This should not happen.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:39 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
Alonso sistuation is nothing compared to this serious stuff. Very bad example.. sorry.

In Alonso case, external factors are not how I will call them. He made a series of mistakes and behaved like Big Corporations do eliminating competition to win all of what is available.
There was no competitive environment in Ferrari like in RedBull or Mercedes where Hamilton/Ricciardo engineers do all their best to beat Rosberg/Verstappen engineers.

He also made friendship with some wrong(understatement) people.

I was giving an example of external factors escaping the control of Alonso himself, which is true.
He can't control or predict the future competitiveness of F1 teams, no driver can.
He has happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time so many times, its ridiculous.


He should get a better manager then. You can't have the FIA dictating which driver goes where, drivers have to find their own seats

Its true, but think about it, its the only "sport" in the world where it can happen that the best sportsmen can't win due to competitive disadvantages. This should not happen.


In just about every team sport the best individual in the world can still not win if he doesn't have the team around him that enables him to shine.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:48 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Fernando was pretty positive about every aspect of the McLaren aside from Honda. I genuinely wonder if, should Honda fail to make any real progress through the early part of 2017, we might hear stories about how Alonso has told McLaren he's only willing to stay at the team beyond this year if they ditch Honda.

If he does leave McLaren, and if Bottas hasn't had a good year - and neither Ocon nor Wehrlein are doing anything special to put themselves in the frame to replace him for 2018 - then I could absolutely see Mercedes entertaining the idea of an Alonso/Hamilton partnership for next year. I know they ruled it out for 2017 but that was because they had the Bottas option. If that doesn't work out and neither of their young drivers look ready to step up, I think they go for Alonso and hope it doesn't implode. Otherwise it would seem like Renault is the only other option, and even then I personally believe the only way they become an attractive choice is if they're looking strong. I just can't see him being bothered to go to another team with the hope that they become competitive. It also wouldn't shock me to see him return to Ferrari; his departure from McLaren was a lot more acrimonious and he went back there, so why not? Not that I expect it to happen, however. It just wouldn't shock me if it did!

Ultimately though I reckon it would be Mercedes, McLaren or leaving F1 entirely.


Referring to 2007, Wolff said "there's history, and that year was particularly painful for Mercedes, being the partner of McLaren back in the days. Of course, people mature and people change, and it would have been an exciting line-up, but maybe just a tiny bit too exciting for us."

I can't see Alonso going to Mercedes if Hamilton is still there. The dynamic could become too explosive. Is it worth the potential headache?


Last edited by SR1 on Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:50 pm 
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cm97 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
Alonso sistuation is nothing compared to this serious stuff. Very bad example.. sorry.

In Alonso case, external factors are not how I will call them. He made a series of mistakes and behaved like Big Corporations do eliminating competition to win all of what is available.
There was no competitive environment in Ferrari like in RedBull or Mercedes where Hamilton/Ricciardo engineers do all their best to beat Rosberg/Verstappen engineers.

He also made friendship with some wrong(understatement) people.

I was giving an example of external factors escaping the control of Alonso himself, which is true.
He can't control or predict the future competitiveness of F1 teams, no driver can.
He has happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time so many times, its ridiculous.


He should get a better manager then. You can't have the FIA dictating which driver goes where, drivers have to find their own seats


All his moves (bar the move back to Renault in 2008) have made sense on paper. Alonso's management team aren't responsible for the rubbish Ferrari and Honda have provided him for the last 7 years.
Changing management isn't the answer.


The common denominators in all the teams Alonso has gone are Alonso and his manager. Alonso is a top driver so his skills are not to be questioned. That leaves us with his manager.

It is true that the manager cannot know what kind of car a team will produce. Even more so they can't fall for the team's reassurances that they'll have a good car for the following year. But it can't be always that the teams produced the worst cars... We've seen it before, drivers jumping to the best drives. Fangio did it, Senna did it, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:57 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
Alonso sistuation is nothing compared to this serious stuff. Very bad example.. sorry.

In Alonso case, external factors are not how I will call them. He made a series of mistakes and behaved like Big Corporations do eliminating competition to win all of what is available.
There was no competitive environment in Ferrari like in RedBull or Mercedes where Hamilton/Ricciardo engineers do all their best to beat Rosberg/Verstappen engineers.

He also made friendship with some wrong(understatement) people.

I was giving an example of external factors escaping the control of Alonso himself, which is true.
He can't control or predict the future competitiveness of F1 teams, no driver can.
He has happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time so many times, its ridiculous.


He should get a better manager then. You can't have the FIA dictating which driver goes where, drivers have to find their own seats

Its true, but think about it, its the only "sport" in the world where it can happen that the best sportsmen can't win due to competitive disadvantages. This should not happen.

I don't know. By principle I don't want to see the authorities dictating who should be in what team...


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:59 pm 
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SR1 wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Fernando was pretty positive about every aspect of the McLaren aside from Honda. I genuinely wonder if, should Honda fail to make any real progress through the early part of 2017, we might hear stories about how Alonso has told McLaren he's only willing to stay at the team beyond this year if they ditch Honda.

If he does leave McLaren, and if Bottas hasn't had a good year - and neither Ocon nor Wehrlein are doing anything special to put themselves in the frame to replace him for 2018 - then I could absolutely see Mercedes entertaining the idea of an Alonso/Hamilton partnership for next year. I know they ruled it out for 2017 but that was because they had the Bottas option. If that doesn't work out and neither of their young drivers look ready to step up, I think they go for Alonso and hope it doesn't implode. Otherwise it would seem like Renault is the only other option, and even then I personally believe the only way they become an attractive choice is if they're looking strong. I just can't see him being bothered to go to another team with the hope that they become competitive. It also wouldn't shock me to see him return to Ferrari; his departure from McLaren was a lot more acrimonious and he went back there, so why not? Not that I expect it to happen, however. It just wouldn't shock me if it did!

Ultimately though I reckon it would be Mercedes, McLaren or leaving F1 entirely.


Referring to 2007, Wolff said "there's history, and that year was particularly painful for Mercedes, being the partner of McLaren back in the days. Of course, people mature and people change, and it would have been an exciting line-up, but maybe just a tiny bit too exciting for us."

I can't see Alonso going to Mercedes if Hamilton is still there. The dynamic could become too explosive. Is it worth the potential headache?


Ultimately, Mercedes' goal is to win races and the WCC. The WDC is an added bonus, one likely to be achieved if they hit their main target (the WCC) anyway. If (and this is a big if) we reach the end of the 2017 season and a) Bottas is far enough off of Hamilton's pace this year that it prevents them retaining the WCC, b) both Ocon and Wehrlein have looked no better than Perez and Ericsson, and c) Alonso parts ways with McLaren, I could absolutely see Mercedes' management deciding it was worth the risk to pair Hamilton with Alonso (or even Vettel, if it works out that way) and accepting the risk against the possible reward of regaining the WCC in 2018. This year they could play the Bottas card, hoping to get a driver who would be there or thereabouts with Lewis whilst (on paper, at least) promising a less potentially explosive driver pairing. If it doesn't work out then they might feel they've exhausted that option and need to either promote from within or recruit a driver that is proven to be at the top level.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:24 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
Covalent wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
You know what I mean... Alonso has changed teams 5(five) times(do you prefer this version? :) ) If you keep moving how do you expect to catch the good things? That's essentially the story of Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

Why should Mercedes or RedBull hire Alonso when they know that if they produce bad cars he will not have the patience and will just retire or change team?

Formula one's new management should seriously try to make sure he has a competitive car again (at least one season) before he retires. Just for the good of the sport, for the improvement of the show and for more excitement up there.

This is like having the teacher make other kids play with the one kid no one wants to play with.

Nonsense example
This is like helping someone who is in trouble because of external factors, ie war refugees.

Nonsense example
Laughable that you should victimize him in a way that comparing him to a war refugee is your idea of a good example.

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