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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:45 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
Covalent wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
You know what I mean... Alonso has changed teams 5(five) times(do you prefer this version? :) ) If you keep moving how do you expect to catch the good things? That's essentially the story of Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

Why should Mercedes or RedBull hire Alonso when they know that if they produce bad cars he will not have the patience and will just retire or change team?

Formula one's new management should seriously try to make sure he has a competitive car again (at least one season) before he retires. Just for the good of the sport, for the improvement of the show and for more excitement up there.

This is like having the teacher make other kids play with the one kid no one wants to play with.

Nonsense example
This is like helping someone who is in trouble because of external factors, ie war refugees.

What are these external factors? Each time he's left one team for another it's been by his own choice. Granted the situation in his first stint at McLaren was untenable, but again that was largely his own making by being involved in the Stepney-gate scandal. So he's put himself in these positions, and while he's not responsible for whether the car the teams have provided him not being championship contenders, he is responsible for making the choice to be with that team.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:59 pm 
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I think he will retire after his contract is over. If somehow Mclaren Honda are worse than last year then he might even quit. I do not see him in any other top team now. He had bad exit with Mclaren before then Ferrari and now it seems this is not going to end well either.

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Last edited by Mercedes-Benz on Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:37 pm 
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mds wrote:
In just about every team sport the best individual in the world can still not win if he doesn't have the team around him that enables him to shine.

Oh really? If you are in a B-class football team you are forced to use crappy football boots compared to the best teams, so you can't win due to that?
Covalent wrote:
Laughable that you should victimize him in a way that comparing him to a war refugee is your idea of a good example.

Better example than yours.
Everyone in the paddock acknowledges that Alonso is a great driver, so "kid no one wants to play with" now that is laughable


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:46 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
mds wrote:
In just about every team sport the best individual in the world can still not win if he doesn't have the team around him that enables him to shine.

Oh really? If you are in a B-class football team you are forced to use crappy football boots compared to the best teams, so you can't win due to that?
Covalent wrote:
Laughable that you should victimize him in a way that comparing him to a war refugee is your idea of a good example.

Better example than yours.
Everyone in the paddock acknowledges that Alonso is a great driver, so "kid no one wants to play with" now that is laughable

I think that you are comparing apples with oranges with the football example, Motorsports are different to other sports.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:53 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
mds wrote:
In just about every team sport the best individual in the world can still not win if he doesn't have the team around him that enables him to shine.

Oh really? If you are in a B-class football team you are forced to use crappy football boots compared to the best teams, so you can't win due to that?


Boots? The 11 players on the field are the product of the work of management and staff.
And if 10 of those players are no better than B-class players, then Messi or Ronaldo will not win anything of note.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:54 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
mds wrote:
In just about every team sport the best individual in the world can still not win if he doesn't have the team around him that enables him to shine.

Oh really? If you are in a B-class football team you are forced to use crappy football boots compared to the best teams, so you can't win due to that?
Covalent wrote:
Laughable that you should victimize him in a way that comparing him to a war refugee is your idea of a good example.

Better example than yours.
Everyone in the paddock acknowledges that Alonso is a great driver, so "kid no one wants to play with" now that is laughable

I think that you are comparing apples with oranges with the football example, Motorsports are different to other sports.

In the end it's the same though... both technical competitive disadvantages.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:00 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
mds wrote:
In just about every team sport the best individual in the world can still not win if he doesn't have the team around him that enables him to shine.

Oh really? If you are in a B-class football team you are forced to use crappy football boots compared to the best teams, so you can't win due to that?
Covalent wrote:
Laughable that you should victimize him in a way that comparing him to a war refugee is your idea of a good example.

Better example than yours.
Everyone in the paddock acknowledges that Alonso is a great driver, so "kid no one wants to play with" now that is laughable

I think that you are comparing apples with oranges with the football example, Motorsports are different to other sports.

In the end it's the same though... both technical competitive disadvantages.

I beg to differ, but anyway. We can agree to disagree on this one


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:00 pm 
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mds wrote:
Boots? The 11 players on the field are the product of the work of management and staff.
And if 10 of those players are no better than B-class players, then Messi or Ronaldo will not win anything of note.

Yeah, football boots, or football shoes. No matter the management and staff if you play football with mocassin shoes you can't win anything, thats the problem with F1. Alonso can have the best fitness, the best skill, the best preparation and all and still not being able to win because the tool he has to run -his car- (in which he has no control over it) don't allow him to win.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:16 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
mds wrote:
Boots? The 11 players on the field are the product of the work of management and staff.
And if 10 of those players are no better than B-class players, then Messi or Ronaldo will not win anything of note.

Yeah, football boots, or football shoes. No matter the management and staff if you play football with mocassin shoes you can't win anything, thats the problem with F1. Alonso can have the best fitness, the best skill, the best preparation and all and still not being able to win because the tool he has to run -his car- (in which he has no control over it) don't allow him to win.

You can't compare the simplicity of a shoe to the complexity of a car - and an F1 car at that.

Not even in theory. Just not comparable.

Plus, when was last time you heard a player blaming the loss of the Premiership (let's say) to his... shoes?


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:32 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
mds wrote:
In just about every team sport the best individual in the world can still not win if he doesn't have the team around him that enables him to shine.

Oh really? If you are in a B-class football team you are forced to use crappy football boots compared to the best teams, so you can't win due to that?
Covalent wrote:
Laughable that you should victimize him in a way that comparing him to a war refugee is your idea of a good example.

Better example than yours.
Everyone in the paddock acknowledges that Alonso is a great driver, so "kid no one wants to play with" now that is laughable

If the other kids do want to play with him you'd think he'd find a playmate without the teacher...
Getting preferential treatment inside a team is one thing, but getting it to get into the best team is ridiculous.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:41 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
I said it on another thread but I think Ferrari's competitiveness will decide what happens here. If they are right up there then I think Seb stays and Alonso becomes a realistic option for Mercedes if Bottas under-performs. Either McLaren or Mercedes in this scenario.

If Ferrari fall away to third behind Red Bull again then I think Mercedes make Seb an offer he can't refuse and he leaves freeing up a seat at Ferrari. In this scenario I think Alonso and Ferrari could mend bridges or he stays at McLaren.

He kinda ruled out Renault at this stage the other day and no chance he joins a non-works outfit other than Red Bull who are a non-starter, it's just not their MO, so I think it will be one of those 3(McLaren/Mercedes/Ferrari). Probably a 1+1yr deal if it's McLaren so he doesn't get locked in if it's a failure. 2yrs for the others.

The way he's talking I can't see retirement any time soon and I don't even think his next contract will be his last.


sandman1347 wrote:
I think you're making a lot of leaps here. Judging by Mercedes' actions, they do not intend to go after Fernando Alonso or Sebastian Vettel in the immediate future. Unless things unfold in an unforeseeable and catastrophic fashion for Merc this season, I think they will be most likely to just re-sign Bottas. If they do decide to go after an elite driver, Ricciardo or Verstappen are more likely than Alonso or Vettel, who are basically Hamilton's contemporaries.



Well it is speculation and guessing of course but judging by Mercedes actions they intend to keep their options open, hence only giving Bottas one year. I don't think that's a coincidence with both Seb and Alonso out of contract at the end of this year and Lewis out of contract the year after. If Bottas just isn't good enough to help win the WCC over Ferrari or Red Bull then he'll be out, Mercedes care little about anything else and as I understand it the Bull drivers are contracted long term, which to be honest is why Bottas is there in the first place.



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As for Ferrari, I think that ship has sailed. I don't see Vettel going anywhere. Things are just starting to get good there. They seem to have done well with the new regs and I think Seb will be content to stick around for a while. Even if Raikkonen retires I think they'd be more likely to sign Grosjean, Perez or Hulk or go after one of the Red Bull youngsters than to sign Alonso.



Disagree but it would depend on what happens this year with Ferrari as above. If they fall to 3rd during the year then I can't see Seb committing for longer. Sentiment is great but he wants to win and I personally think Mercedes gave Bottas the one year deal specifically for this scenario. He's younger than both Lewis and Alonso,he's German,more laid back,less baggage with Lewis and the following year they won't have their feet held to the fire or be left in no-mans land by Lewis when it comes to renegotiating if Seb is there ready to lead the team.

And in that scenario you can bet Ferrari and Alonso will at least speak. If he can make up with McLaren and vice versa then Ferrari will be a walk in the park considering Mattiacci was fired not long after he left and Ferrari would be left with another year older Kimi leading untried drivers or a Mercedes reject and I can't see Sergio going with that.


Quote:
I think it might not be so easy for Alonso to find a seat at a top team. A move to Renault might be well timed but it would still be a long shot. Definitely a lot of 'wrong place wrong time' in this man's career.


He already has a two year deal on the table from McLaren apparently so he'll certainly be at a top team if he chooses to be and depending on what happens elsewhere then other options become available. He ruled out Renault earlier in the week but he says a lot of things and I don't actually think that's a particularly bad idea. Renault win, they always do, it's just a matter of when if they really want to.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:18 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
mds wrote:
Boots? The 11 players on the field are the product of the work of management and staff.
And if 10 of those players are no better than B-class players, then Messi or Ronaldo will not win anything of note.

Yeah, football boots, or football shoes. No matter the management and staff if you play football with mocassin shoes you can't win anything, thats the problem with F1. Alonso can have the best fitness, the best skill, the best preparation and all and still not being able to win because the tool he has to run -his car- (in which he has no control over it) don't allow him to win.


Seriously man, this is not that hard. The car is very comparable to the 10 other football players. Not to the shoes, they compare to... well, the racing driver's shoes actually. Give a racing driver clogs and that isn't going to work either.

Your actual point was that this is the only sport in which the best can't win due to a competitive disadvantage. And that is nonsense. Because any top player in any team sport won't win anything if he's given the competitive disadvantage of having to play in a B-team. Simple as.

That's the thing with team sports you know. You need the whole team to pull through in order to make a chance to win.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:09 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
mds wrote:
In just about every team sport the best individual in the world can still not win if he doesn't have the team around him that enables him to shine.

Oh really? If you are in a B-class football team you are forced to use crappy football boots compared to the best teams, so you can't win due to that?
Covalent wrote:
Laughable that you should victimize him in a way that comparing him to a war refugee is your idea of a good example.

Better example than yours.
Everyone in the paddock acknowledges that Alonso is a great driver, so "kid no one wants to play with" now that is laughable

If the other kids do want to play with him you'd think he'd find a playmate without the teacher...
Getting preferential treatment inside a team is one thing, but getting it to get into the best team is ridiculous.

I know it can't be done and its a ridiculous suggestin, but really, something should be done. I mean I've never seen anything like that in any sport. Certainly the worst talent wasting case in F1 ever. It's just so... wrong


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:21 pm 
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I just think what a waste , such a talent and such a waste
I would love to see him fighting at the front , but it looks unlikely this year and time is leaving him with no other options but to stick with McLaren and hope for the best


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:28 pm 
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For the last 7yrs, unless you were in a Red Bull (10-13) or a Mercedes (14-16), you had no real opportunity to win the title. Alonso nearly managed it in 2010 and again in 2012, but it required an exceptional season and some Red Bull reliability issues. Even in '09, that was a freak when Brawn won, and in '08 he had a good but not great car in that Renault.

With the possible exception of '10, Alonso has been in the wrong car for a decade now.

As a fan of F1, I find that disappointing, as the sport needs Alonso mixing it up top, and challenging. He is a bit outspoken, a bit volatile, and in the car, one of the best ever all round drivers - love or hate he is one of the sports box office names and the sport is much poorer with him scraping around the lower midfield.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:29 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
Covalent wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
mds wrote:
In just about every team sport the best individual in the world can still not win if he doesn't have the team around him that enables him to shine.

Oh really? If you are in a B-class football team you are forced to use crappy football boots compared to the best teams, so you can't win due to that?
Covalent wrote:
Laughable that you should victimize him in a way that comparing him to a war refugee is your idea of a good example.

Better example than yours.
Everyone in the paddock acknowledges that Alonso is a great driver, so "kid no one wants to play with" now that is laughable

If the other kids do want to play with him you'd think he'd find a playmate without the teacher...
Getting preferential treatment inside a team is one thing, but getting it to get into the best team is ridiculous.

I know it can't be done and its a ridiculous suggestin, but really, something should be done. I mean I've never seen anything like that in any sport. Certainly the worst talent wasting case in F1 ever. It's just so... wrong


I understand that you are very upset being a Alonso fan. But as I said some of the blame should be put on Alonso and not on the "sport" as a whole just because he can not compete at the front.

Alonso needs a team to compete and it is very unfortunate we have to reach this point for many to understand it.

When he was in Renault, he said bad things about the Red Team.
When he was in McLaren he said bad things to the Spanish press about the evil English team.
When he left Ferrari for McLaren he said again bad things about Ferrari.
Why so many mistakes?
Just to put things in context, If Vettel wanted to go back to RedBull or Hamilton wanted to go back to McLaren they would do it with no much effort.

Alonso has to stay where he is now and with a little bit of luck he will be at the front again.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:44 pm 
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Pullrod wrote:
Just to put things in context, If Vettel wanted to go back to RedBull or Hamilton wanted to go back to McLaren they would do it with no much effort.

The fact that Alonso was able to return to McLaren pretty much proves that he'd be able to return to any of those other teams as well. F1 teams are nothing if not practical.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:50 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
Just to put things in context, If Vettel wanted to go back to RedBull or Hamilton wanted to go back to McLaren they would do it with no much effort.

The fact that Alonso was able to return to McLaren pretty much proves that he'd be able to return to any of those other teams as well. F1 teams are nothing if not practical.


We have now Hamilton/Vettel/Ricciardo/Verstappen

Mercedes/RedBull/Ferrari don't need Alonso. Or if you think otherwise tell me what they will gain if they hire him?


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:52 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
I said it on another thread but I think Ferrari's competitiveness will decide what happens here. If they are right up there then I think Seb stays and Alonso becomes a realistic option for Mercedes if Bottas under-performs. Either McLaren or Mercedes in this scenario.

If Ferrari fall away to third behind Red Bull again then I think Mercedes make Seb an offer he can't refuse and he leaves freeing up a seat at Ferrari. In this scenario I think Alonso and Ferrari could mend bridges or he stays at McLaren.

He kinda ruled out Renault at this stage the other day and no chance he joins a non-works outfit other than Red Bull who are a non-starter, it's just not their MO, so I think it will be one of those 3(McLaren/Mercedes/Ferrari). Probably a 1+1yr deal if it's McLaren so he doesn't get locked in if it's a failure. 2yrs for the others.

The way he's talking I can't see retirement any time soon and I don't even think his next contract will be his last.


sandman1347 wrote:
I think you're making a lot of leaps here. Judging by Mercedes' actions, they do not intend to go after Fernando Alonso or Sebastian Vettel in the immediate future. Unless things unfold in an unforeseeable and catastrophic fashion for Merc this season, I think they will be most likely to just re-sign Bottas. If they do decide to go after an elite driver, Ricciardo or Verstappen are more likely than Alonso or Vettel, who are basically Hamilton's contemporaries.



Well it is speculation and guessing of course but judging by Mercedes actions they intend to keep their options open, hence only giving Bottas one year. I don't think that's a coincidence with both Seb and Alonso out of contract at the end of this year and Lewis out of contract the year after. If Bottas just isn't good enough to help win the WCC over Ferrari or Red Bull then he'll be out, Mercedes care little about anything else and as I understand it the Bull drivers are contracted long term, which to be honest is why Bottas is there in the first place.



Quote:
As for Ferrari, I think that ship has sailed. I don't see Vettel going anywhere. Things are just starting to get good there. They seem to have done well with the new regs and I think Seb will be content to stick around for a while. Even if Raikkonen retires I think they'd be more likely to sign Grosjean, Perez or Hulk or go after one of the Red Bull youngsters than to sign Alonso.



Disagree but it would depend on what happens this year with Ferrari as above. If they fall to 3rd during the year then I can't see Seb committing for longer. Sentiment is great but he wants to win and I personally think Mercedes gave Bottas the one year deal specifically for this scenario. He's younger than both Lewis and Alonso,he's German,more laid back,less baggage with Lewis and the following year they won't have their feet held to the fire or be left in no-mans land by Lewis when it comes to renegotiating if Seb is there ready to lead the team.

And in that scenario you can bet Ferrari and Alonso will at least speak. If he can make up with McLaren and vice versa then Ferrari will be a walk in the park considering Mattiacci was fired not long after he left and Ferrari would be left with another year older Kimi leading untried drivers or a Mercedes reject and I can't see Sergio going with that.


Quote:
I think it might not be so easy for Alonso to find a seat at a top team. A move to Renault might be well timed but it would still be a long shot. Definitely a lot of 'wrong place wrong time' in this man's career.


He already has a two year deal on the table from McLaren apparently so he'll certainly be at a top team if he chooses to be and depending on what happens elsewhere then other options become available. He ruled out Renault earlier in the week but he says a lot of things and I don't actually think that's a particularly bad idea. Renault win, they always do, it's just a matter of when if they really want to.

There's a lot of moving parts to that scenario; none of which seem particularly likely to happen. I don't think Vettel wants to join Hamilton's team and I don't think Alonso does either (nor would it be Hamilton's preference either). It's mostly us fans that want to see that. For a driver, it's better to have your own team. Further I don't think the scenario you described for Ferrari this season seems likely to happen. They look to me like they are ready to challenge at least as much as they did in 2015 and probably a whole lot more. We'll have to see in Australia but my gut tells me that this year will not be like the previous 3 years at all. I think it's going to be competitive.

Again, to sign Alonso really doesn't make sense for any of the top 3 teams right now. Even if Vettel did leave to go to Mercedes, Ferrari would not look to bring Alonso back. They would probably look to poach one of the Red Bull drivers. Fernando already spent 5 years with Ferrari and things ended between them. I don't think they want to go back and I don't think he would be desperate enough to really try to force it to happen. Especially considering the fact that, in this scenario, Ferrari are not strong enough in terms of their car to even retain Vettel.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:35 pm 
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Pullrod wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
Just to put things in context, If Vettel wanted to go back to RedBull or Hamilton wanted to go back to McLaren they would do it with no much effort.

The fact that Alonso was able to return to McLaren pretty much proves that he'd be able to return to any of those other teams as well. F1 teams are nothing if not practical.

We have now Hamilton/Vettel/Ricciardo/Verstappen

Mercedes/RedBull/Ferrari don't need Alonso. Or if you think otherwise tell me what they will gain if they hire him?

No, I don't think they need him - although I do think he'd be a significant upgrade on either Ferrari driver, as a matter of fact. But I was responding to your claim that he wouldn't be able to return to the teams he's said bad things about in the past, which I think is obviously false: he said the worst things about McLaren, and that's where he is right now.

If you're talking about teams actually having the opening to take a driver back, your top post clearly doesn't work - Vettel couldn't return to Red Bull because they already have two great drivers, and Hamilton couldn't return to McLaren for the same reason. But none of them would be stopped by burned bridges, because F1 teams don't work that way.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:13 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
I said it on another thread but I think Ferrari's competitiveness will decide what happens here. If they are right up there then I think Seb stays and Alonso becomes a realistic option for Mercedes if Bottas under-performs. Either McLaren or Mercedes in this scenario.

If Ferrari fall away to third behind Red Bull again then I think Mercedes make Seb an offer he can't refuse and he leaves freeing up a seat at Ferrari. In this scenario I think Alonso and Ferrari could mend bridges or he stays at McLaren.

He kinda ruled out Renault at this stage the other day and no chance he joins a non-works outfit other than Red Bull who are a non-starter, it's just not their MO, so I think it will be one of those 3(McLaren/Mercedes/Ferrari). Probably a 1+1yr deal if it's McLaren so he doesn't get locked in if it's a failure. 2yrs for the others.

The way he's talking I can't see retirement any time soon and I don't even think his next contract will be his last.


sandman1347 wrote:
I think you're making a lot of leaps here. Judging by Mercedes' actions, they do not intend to go after Fernando Alonso or Sebastian Vettel in the immediate future. Unless things unfold in an unforeseeable and catastrophic fashion for Merc this season, I think they will be most likely to just re-sign Bottas. If they do decide to go after an elite driver, Ricciardo or Verstappen are more likely than Alonso or Vettel, who are basically Hamilton's contemporaries.



Well it is speculation and guessing of course but judging by Mercedes actions they intend to keep their options open, hence only giving Bottas one year. I don't think that's a coincidence with both Seb and Alonso out of contract at the end of this year and Lewis out of contract the year after. If Bottas just isn't good enough to help win the WCC over Ferrari or Red Bull then he'll be out, Mercedes care little about anything else and as I understand it the Bull drivers are contracted long term, which to be honest is why Bottas is there in the first place.



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As for Ferrari, I think that ship has sailed. I don't see Vettel going anywhere. Things are just starting to get good there. They seem to have done well with the new regs and I think Seb will be content to stick around for a while. Even if Raikkonen retires I think they'd be more likely to sign Grosjean, Perez or Hulk or go after one of the Red Bull youngsters than to sign Alonso.



Disagree but it would depend on what happens this year with Ferrari as above. If they fall to 3rd during the year then I can't see Seb committing for longer. Sentiment is great but he wants to win and I personally think Mercedes gave Bottas the one year deal specifically for this scenario. He's younger than both Lewis and Alonso,he's German,more laid back,less baggage with Lewis and the following year they won't have their feet held to the fire or be left in no-mans land by Lewis when it comes to renegotiating if Seb is there ready to lead the team.

And in that scenario you can bet Ferrari and Alonso will at least speak. If he can make up with McLaren and vice versa then Ferrari will be a walk in the park considering Mattiacci was fired not long after he left and Ferrari would be left with another year older Kimi leading untried drivers or a Mercedes reject and I can't see Sergio going with that.


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I think it might not be so easy for Alonso to find a seat at a top team. A move to Renault might be well timed but it would still be a long shot. Definitely a lot of 'wrong place wrong time' in this man's career.


He already has a two year deal on the table from McLaren apparently so he'll certainly be at a top team if he chooses to be and depending on what happens elsewhere then other options become available. He ruled out Renault earlier in the week but he says a lot of things and I don't actually think that's a particularly bad idea. Renault win, they always do, it's just a matter of when if they really want to.

There's a lot of moving parts to that scenario; none of which seem particularly likely to happen. I don't think Vettel wants to join Hamilton's team and I don't think Alonso does either (nor would it be Hamilton's preference either). It's mostly us fans that want to see that. For a driver, it's better to have your own team. Further I don't think the scenario you described for Ferrari this season seems likely to happen. They look to me like they are ready to challenge at least as much as they did in 2015 and probably a whole lot more. We'll have to see in Australia but my gut tells me that this year will not be like the previous 3 years at all. I think it's going to be competitive.

Again, to sign Alonso really doesn't make sense for any of the top 3 teams right now. Even if Vettel did leave to go to Mercedes, Ferrari would not look to bring Alonso back. They would probably look to poach one of the Red Bull drivers. Fernando already spent 5 years with Ferrari and things ended between them. I don't think they want to go back and I don't think he would be desperate enough to really try to force it to happen. Especially considering the fact that, in this scenario, Ferrari are not strong enough in terms of their car to even retain Vettel.


The threads speculative in nature so of course there's lots of moving parts as we haven't seen the season play out so I'm covering all bases but I don't think there's anything we haven't seen before. I disagree about Seb(or Alonso) being unwilling to partner Lewis, if that were true Seb would have re-signed with Ferrari much sooner rather than running it down and I think Alonso would clearly jump at it at his age. It's better to have your own team I agree but needs must and having the chance to win takes precedent.

Ferrari certainly look impressive and it wouldn't surprise me at all if that continued through the season, it wasn't a prediction it was speculating how things might play out in different scenario's really. I feel Ferrari's performance will decide more of the next silly season than any other single factor so I'm looking at what I think could be possible in both.

Right now it doesn't make sense for the other top teams to sign Alonso I agree which is why I was looking at different scenario's. The RB drivers are signed up long term and no chance they release one to Ferrari. I'm surprised you think this is more likely than anything I've written considering they wouldn't even let Sainz go to Renault.

In this scenario of Seb leaving Ferrari would face the choice of having 38/39yr old Kimī(If he doesn't retire) and probably Perez but also Bottas,RoGro and Sainz potentially. So any combination of those realistically. Nothing Alonso has said or done trumps his talent compared to those drivers so of course I feel they would at least speak. But your point of why Alonso would want to if Seb didn't is a very good one but I'm just pointing out options anyway and I still think they'd speak in this scenario.

Gun to head I actually think he'll stay with Macca but maybe try to get a 1+1 instead of the 2. But if Bottas tanks and Mercedes lose the WCC or Seb leaves Ferrari then I think there's a chance of a move to either. (RB are out for every driver not in their programme imo).

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:19 pm 
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Badgeronimous wrote:
For the last 7yrs, unless you were in a Red Bull (10-13) or a Mercedes (14-16), you had no real opportunity to win the title. Alonso nearly managed it in 2010 and again in 2012, but it required an exceptional season and some Red Bull reliability issues. Even in '09, that was a freak when Brawn won, and in '08 he had a good but not great car in that Renault.

With the possible exception of '10, Alonso has been in the wrong car for a decade now.

As a fan of F1, I find that disappointing, as the sport needs Alonso mixing it up top, and challenging. He is a bit outspoken, a bit volatile, and in the car, one of the best ever all round drivers - love or hate he is one of the sports box office names and the sport is much poorer with him scraping around the lower midfield.


When it comes to talent, Alonso is certainly top tier. Give him a competitive car and he car deliver, usually destroying his teammates' psyche in the process. His current predicament, however, is largely of his own making. Alonso has burned quite a few bridges throughout his career. His vital role in the espionage fiasco at McLaren, and crash-gate at Renault can never be erased. The fact that he is now back at McLaren is mostly, in 20-20 hindsight, a product of desperation by the English team rather than sage decisions.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:39 pm 
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he has one realistic option , stay where he is


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:23 pm 
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SmoothRide wrote:
Badgeronimous wrote:
For the last 7yrs, unless you were in a Red Bull (10-13) or a Mercedes (14-16), you had no real opportunity to win the title. Alonso nearly managed it in 2010 and again in 2012, but it required an exceptional season and some Red Bull reliability issues. Even in '09, that was a freak when Brawn won, and in '08 he had a good but not great car in that Renault.

With the possible exception of '10, Alonso has been in the wrong car for a decade now.

As a fan of F1, I find that disappointing, as the sport needs Alonso mixing it up top, and challenging. He is a bit outspoken, a bit volatile, and in the car, one of the best ever all round drivers - love or hate he is one of the sports box office names and the sport is much poorer with him scraping around the lower midfield.


When it comes to talent, Alonso is certainly top tier. Give him a competitive car and he car deliver, usually destroying his teammates' psyche in the process. His current predicament, however, is largely of his own making. Alonso has burned quite a few bridges throughout his career. His vital role in the espionage fiasco at McLaren, and crash-gate at Renault can never be erased. The fact that he is now back at McLaren is mostly, in 20-20 hindsight, a product of desperation by the English team rather than sage decisions.

It doesn't go unnoticed that McLaren are currently paying Fernando top dollar (reportedly he is the highest paid driver on the grid-certainly he, Lewis and Seb are paid substantially more than anyone else) while languishing in the middle of the pack and celebrating appearances in Q3 and any finish that scores points. It's not his fault of course but McLaren are basically wasting money on a top driver when they don't have the car to justify it. That money would be better spent on the car right now. Any team that wants Alonso will have to pay for him and a team that already has Lewis or Seb is not going to do that.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:30 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
SmoothRide wrote:
Badgeronimous wrote:
For the last 7yrs, unless you were in a Red Bull (10-13) or a Mercedes (14-16), you had no real opportunity to win the title. Alonso nearly managed it in 2010 and again in 2012, but it required an exceptional season and some Red Bull reliability issues. Even in '09, that was a freak when Brawn won, and in '08 he had a good but not great car in that Renault.

With the possible exception of '10, Alonso has been in the wrong car for a decade now.

As a fan of F1, I find that disappointing, as the sport needs Alonso mixing it up top, and challenging. He is a bit outspoken, a bit volatile, and in the car, one of the best ever all round drivers - love or hate he is one of the sports box office names and the sport is much poorer with him scraping around the lower midfield.


When it comes to talent, Alonso is certainly top tier. Give him a competitive car and he car deliver, usually destroying his teammates' psyche in the process. His current predicament, however, is largely of his own making. Alonso has burned quite a few bridges throughout his career. His vital role in the espionage fiasco at McLaren, and crash-gate at Renault can never be erased. The fact that he is now back at McLaren is mostly, in 20-20 hindsight, a product of desperation by the English team rather than sage decisions.

It doesn't go unnoticed that McLaren are currently paying Fernando top dollar (reportedly he is the highest paid driver on the grid-certainly he, Lewis and Seb are paid substantially more than anyone else) while languishing in the middle of the pack and celebrating appearances in Q3 and any finish that scores points. It's not his fault of course but McLaren are basically wasting money on a top driver when they don't have the car to justify it. That money would be better spent on the car right now. Any team that wants Alonso will have to pay for him and a team that already has Lewis or Seb is not going to do that.


Well they have the car(chassis) but not the engine.

I know car is nothing without the engine & vice versa. McLaren are paying him so much for his skill, experience & never die attitude. Last year, he got the car in positions which any other driver wouldn't.

McLaren have all the reason to be miffed with Honda for not being able to step on for 3 years now. Sadly, they're in a looooong contract with Honda.

Alonso can only hope it improves mid season otherwise he may try getting back to Renault (if they improve enough). Otherwise, his next best bet is to move to WEC or any other series where he'll get a competitive machinery backed by some serious personnel & not jokers that are fitting a fragile engine at the back of the McLaren.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:40 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
SmoothRide wrote:
Badgeronimous wrote:
For the last 7yrs, unless you were in a Red Bull (10-13) or a Mercedes (14-16), you had no real opportunity to win the title. Alonso nearly managed it in 2010 and again in 2012, but it required an exceptional season and some Red Bull reliability issues. Even in '09, that was a freak when Brawn won, and in '08 he had a good but not great car in that Renault.

With the possible exception of '10, Alonso has been in the wrong car for a decade now.

As a fan of F1, I find that disappointing, as the sport needs Alonso mixing it up top, and challenging. He is a bit outspoken, a bit volatile, and in the car, one of the best ever all round drivers - love or hate he is one of the sports box office names and the sport is much poorer with him scraping around the lower midfield.


When it comes to talent, Alonso is certainly top tier. Give him a competitive car and he car deliver, usually destroying his teammates' psyche in the process. His current predicament, however, is largely of his own making. Alonso has burned quite a few bridges throughout his career. His vital role in the espionage fiasco at McLaren, and crash-gate at Renault can never be erased. The fact that he is now back at McLaren is mostly, in 20-20 hindsight, a product of desperation by the English team rather than sage decisions.

It doesn't go unnoticed that McLaren are currently paying Fernando top dollar (reportedly he is the highest paid driver on the grid-certainly he, Lewis and Seb are paid substantially more than anyone else) while languishing in the middle of the pack and celebrating appearances in Q3 and any finish that scores points. It's not his fault of course but McLaren are basically wasting money on a top driver when they don't have the car to justify it. That money would be better spent on the car right now. Any team that wants Alonso will have to pay for him and a team that already has Lewis or Seb is not going to do that.


Well they have the car(chassis) but not the engine.

I know car is nothing without the engine & vice versa. McLaren are paying him so much for his skill, experience & never die attitude. Last year, he got the car in positions which any other driver wouldn't.

McLaren have all the reason to be miffed with Honda for not being able to step on for 3 years now. Sadly, they're in a looooong contract with Honda.

Alonso can only hope it improves mid season otherwise he may try getting back to Renault (if they improve enough). Otherwise, his next best bet is to move to WEC or any other series where he'll get a competitive machinery backed by some serious personnel & not jokers that are fitting a fragile engine at the back of the McLaren.

I don't know about that. I seem to remember Hamilton doing as much back in 2009 with a car that was even more hopeless than last year's McLaren for the first half of the season. I also have seen a couple of other guys on the grid make a big difference in a poor car. I think your assumption here is not well supported. Neither is the assumption that the engine is the only thing keeping this car from the top. There is no clear evidence that this car is a match for the other top cars in any other facet either.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:42 pm 
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It would be nice to know how much Mclaren actually cough up for his wages, and how much money he brings from companies like Santander, or others that would not be there without Alonso.

Anyone know?


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:00 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
SmoothRide wrote:
Badgeronimous wrote:
For the last 7yrs, unless you were in a Red Bull (10-13) or a Mercedes (14-16), you had no real opportunity to win the title. Alonso nearly managed it in 2010 and again in 2012, but it required an exceptional season and some Red Bull reliability issues. Even in '09, that was a freak when Brawn won, and in '08 he had a good but not great car in that Renault.

With the possible exception of '10, Alonso has been in the wrong car for a decade now.

As a fan of F1, I find that disappointing, as the sport needs Alonso mixing it up top, and challenging. He is a bit outspoken, a bit volatile, and in the car, one of the best ever all round drivers - love or hate he is one of the sports box office names and the sport is much poorer with him scraping around the lower midfield.


When it comes to talent, Alonso is certainly top tier. Give him a competitive car and he car deliver, usually destroying his teammates' psyche in the process. His current predicament, however, is largely of his own making. Alonso has burned quite a few bridges throughout his career. His vital role in the espionage fiasco at McLaren, and crash-gate at Renault can never be erased. The fact that he is now back at McLaren is mostly, in 20-20 hindsight, a product of desperation by the English team rather than sage decisions.

It doesn't go unnoticed that McLaren are currently paying Fernando top dollar (reportedly he is the highest paid driver on the grid-certainly he, Lewis and Seb are paid substantially more than anyone else) while languishing in the middle of the pack and celebrating appearances in Q3 and any finish that scores points. It's not his fault of course but McLaren are basically wasting money on a top driver when they don't have the car to justify it. That money would be better spent on the car right now. Any team that wants Alonso will have to pay for him and a team that already has Lewis or Seb is not going to do that.


Well they have the car(chassis) but not the engine.

I know car is nothing without the engine & vice versa. McLaren are paying him so much for his skill, experience & never die attitude. Last year, he got the car in positions which any other driver wouldn't.

McLaren have all the reason to be miffed with Honda for not being able to step on for 3 years now. Sadly, they're in a looooong contract with Honda.

Alonso can only hope it improves mid season otherwise he may try getting back to Renault (if they improve enough). Otherwise, his next best bet is to move to WEC or any other series where he'll get a competitive machinery backed by some serious personnel & not jokers that are fitting a fragile engine at the back of the McLaren.

I don't know about that. I seem to remember Hamilton doing as much back in 2009 with a car that was even more hopeless than last year's McLaren for the first half of the season. I also have seen a couple of other guys on the grid make a big difference in a poor car. I think your assumption here is not well supported. Neither is the assumption that the engine is the only thing keeping this car from the top. There is no clear evidence that this car is a match for the other top cars in any other facet either.


If the engine is not good enough, how would McLaren get the opportunity to prove how good their chassis is? Atleast, it won't be that bad I assume.

In that awful car (awful as in the engine only), he still managed to finish 10th in the WDC with 54 points. For his age & for the amount of frustration he's suffered, it's very hard to be inspired & still wanting to try.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:51 pm 
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"gp3 engine, gp3 engine"


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:01 pm 
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gary Anderson was watching trackside at the test and said the McLaren looks a bit of a handful in the corners and doesn't think the chassis is quite as good and as stable as McLaren have you believe, and says clearly more work required on the car


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:39 pm 
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slide wrote:
gary Anderson was watching trackside at the test and said the McLaren looks a bit of a handful in the corners and doesn't think the chassis is quite as good and as stable as McLaren have you believe, and says clearly more work required on the car

I think you can see it from the testing footage without needing to be an expert or anything, the car looks twitchy and generally horrible, but how much of that could be due to the PU? I'm thinking rough power delivery could contribute to it quite a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:06 am 
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You know where the mistake was made? He put his faith in McLaren over Ferrari. That is where Alonso wasted 3 years of his life and possibly more.
This McLaren is not going to be anywhere near podium this year.

He should have made every possible effort to switch this year. Instead he decided to stick around. Big mistake.

I said this 2 years back without knowing how Honda will turn out, and I still stand by it. I still think he should ditch this team as soon as possible. I have zero faith in McLaren of today.

If Kimi is not going to be at Ferrari for long, that is the place he should go to. He should have never left them for McLaren in the first place. But even now, this is his best chance of getting in a winning car in next 2 years.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:39 am 
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funkymonkey wrote:
You know where the mistake was made? He put his faith in McLaren over Ferrari. That is where Alonso wasted 3 years of his life and possibly more.
This McLaren is not going to be anywhere near podium this year.

He should have made every possible effort to switch this year. Instead he decided to stick around. Big mistake.

I said this 2 years back without knowing how Honda will turn out, and I still stand by it. I still think he should ditch this team as soon as possible. I have zero faith in McLaren of today.

If Kimi is not going to be at Ferrari for long, that is the place he should go to. He should have never left them for McLaren in the first place. But even now, this is his best chance of getting in a winning car in next 2 years.

Sure, Kimi's contract will be up but will Ferrari really want to sign Alonso when they already have Vettel? Bottas's contract will also be up but will Mercedes want to sign Fred when they already have Hamilton? I just don't see either of those scenarios panning out for him. Renault might be as good a place as any to make his last stand in F1. They'd be thrilled to take him and he did have his greatest success with them in the past.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:01 am 
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funkymonkey wrote:
You know where the mistake was made? He put his faith in McLaren over Ferrari. That is where Alonso wasted 3 years of his life and possibly more.
This McLaren is not going to be anywhere near podium this year.

He should have made every possible effort to switch this year. Instead he decided to stick around. Big mistake.

I said this 2 years back without knowing how Honda will turn out, and I still stand by it. I still think he should ditch this team as soon as possible. I have zero faith in McLaren of today.

If Kimi is not going to be at Ferrari for long, that is the place he should go to. He should have never left them for McLaren in the first place. But even now, this is his best chance of getting in a winning car in next 2 years.

Alonso's gamble with McLaren was similar to Hamilton's with Mercedes. Both were sold a dream by a manufacturer. That Honda messed it up isn't a reflection on Alonso and he couldn't possibly have foreseen just how bad they would be. Don't forget Ferrari also made an appalling hash up of the new regs when they were introduced and before new regulations for this year were voted in were still wallowing around.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:11 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
You know where the mistake was made? He put his faith in McLaren over Ferrari. That is where Alonso wasted 3 years of his life and possibly more.
This McLaren is not going to be anywhere near podium this year.

He should have made every possible effort to switch this year. Instead he decided to stick around. Big mistake.

I said this 2 years back without knowing how Honda will turn out, and I still stand by it. I still think he should ditch this team as soon as possible. I have zero faith in McLaren of today.

If Kimi is not going to be at Ferrari for long, that is the place he should go to. He should have never left them for McLaren in the first place. But even now, this is his best chance of getting in a winning car in next 2 years.

Sure, Kimi's contract will be up but will Ferrari really want to sign Alonso when they already have Vettel? Bottas's contract will also be up but will Mercedes want to sign Fred when they already have Hamilton? I just don't see either of those scenarios panning out for him. Renault might be as good a place as any to make his last stand in F1. They'd be thrilled to take him and he did have his greatest success with them in the past.


Depends how Bottas does surely?. If he's close enough to Lewis and they win the WCC then no, it's a pointless waste of money and extra headaches.

But if he bombs and costs them the WCC to Ferrari for example then of course they would consider Alonso. They wouldn't have bothered with the phone call in the winter to keep channels open and friendly otherwise.

It all depends on the situation, there is no blanket or definitive answer either way on this. If there was we would have heard it in the winter and they wouldn't have even bothered phoning him.

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:01 am 
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The idea that Mercedes or Ferrari wouldn't sign Alonso if he was available is mental.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:08 am 
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GingerFurball wrote:
The idea that Mercedes or Ferrari wouldn't sign Alonso if he was available is mental.


If he does go to Ferrari or Mercedes in 2018, that will make a seat vacant at McLaren.

Then McLaren will be in a soup because there's no driver mental enough to grab that seat.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:21 am 
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GingerFurball wrote:
The idea that Mercedes or Ferrari wouldn't sign Alonso if he was available is mental.


Hamilton was available in 2012 but Ferrari didnt sign him, so why should it be different now? Because it is Alonso? ;)

If Mercedes want people to say they won because of their driver, yes they should definitely contact Fernando.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:52 am 
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Pullrod wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
The idea that Mercedes or Ferrari wouldn't sign Alonso if he was available is mental.


Hamilton was available in 2012 but Ferrari didnt sign him, so why should it be different now? Because it is Alonso? ;)

If Mercedes want people to say they won because of their driver, yes they should definitely contact Fernando.

To answer your second question: yes ;)

As stated before, it all depends on how closely fought the coming WCC will be and how competitive Bottas will be in that. There's a reason Mercedes reportedly gave him a one-year deal. If they feel that the WCC might be in danger and that Bottas could have done more to keep them at the top, they would undoubtedly look seriously at Alonso. If Mercedes look to be cruising away again with both drivers, there would be no incentive to change.

Similar for Ferrari, really. If Seb or Kimi - more likely Kimi - drop the ball and Ferrari feel that either driver has cost them points, then I've no doubt they would reconsider Alonso again. But, unless their car is a WDC contender, then Alonso wouldn't be tempted back, either. It's a 2-way street and at this stage I doubt Alonso would consider changing teams unless they gave him a realistic chance of a title fight. He's upset enough with Ferraris as it is so they'd have to have a near sure thing for him to want to return


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 Post subject: Re: The future of Alonso
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:29 am 
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If your first answer is a jab at Lewis, the only thing I can say is that there are people who follow success and people who are followed by success 😉. That's life..

The thing is, in all the posts I read there is a sense of entitlement from guys who feel that teams owe Alonso something.

In the case of Mercedes, there are people in Germany in the board who don't want to do anything with Fernando. Toto as a businessman would have no problem I am sure, but there are other issues and past history some believe to be important particularly for their brand.

Don't think that Ferrari engineers are crying all the day because they miss Fernando as good as he may be.
If guys like Forghieri -who has no salary/career to defend- can speak negatively about the atmosphere in Ferrari at the time, can you imagine what some engineers may think?

One picture I remember very well is Fernando with his arm around Ron Dennis shoulder. He wants to be the boss and to call the shots. It worked with Montezemolo(who fired and displaced people because of Alonso) and Briatore.


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