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 Post subject: John Surtees 1934-2017
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:01 pm 
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What a crying shame to hear the kind man has passed on. A legend of motor sport.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:03 pm 
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RIP legend.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:16 pm 
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Rest in peace :(

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:20 pm 
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83, an excellent long life for a very talented rider and driver. A life to celebrate!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:30 pm 
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Damn! that sucks. RIP Mr Surtees.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:39 pm 
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Gutted. Utter legend, an absolutely criminal that his lack of a knighthood will now never be redressed. Don't believe we will ever see anyone compete and win at the highest level on both 2 and 4 wheels ever again.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:10 pm 
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What a man!!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:32 pm 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
Gutted. Utter legend, an absolutely criminal that his lack of a knighthood will now never be redressed. Don't believe we will ever see anyone compete and win at the highest level on both 2 and 4 wheels ever again.


+1. :thumbup:

Heartbreaking he lived through such a dangerous era on both 2 and 4 wheels but lost his son in such a mostly safe era as well.

True Motorsport legend of the highest calibre and will be missed.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:40 pm 
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Motorsport legend.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:48 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Gutted. Utter legend, an absolutely criminal that his lack of a knighthood will now never be redressed. Don't believe we will ever see anyone compete and win at the highest level on both 2 and 4 wheels ever again.


+1. :thumbup:

Heartbreaking he lived through such a dangerous era on both 2 and 4 wheels but lost his son in such a mostly safe era as well.

True Motorsport legend of the highest calibre and will be missed.

It was his grandson who was struck on the head and killed by the wheel.

Sad to lose such a wonderful human being. Rest in everlasting peace.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:53 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Gutted. Utter legend, an absolutely criminal that his lack of a knighthood will now never be redressed. Don't believe we will ever see anyone compete and win at the highest level on both 2 and 4 wheels ever again.


+1. :thumbup:

Heartbreaking he lived through such a dangerous era on both 2 and 4 wheels but lost his son in such a mostly safe era as well.

True Motorsport legend of the highest calibre and will be missed.

It was his grandson who was struck on the head and killed by the wheel.

Sad to lose such a wonderful human being. Rest in everlasting peace.


Henry was his son mate.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:16 pm 
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The only man who can say that he was the best in the world on both two wheels and four! I doubt we'll ever see someone win MotoGP and F1 championships again. Truly a legend.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:28 pm 
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RIP. I tried desperately to find a Surtees #15 picture to put into the countdown thread but I guess we'll wait to #7.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:53 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
The only man who can say that he was the best in the world on both two wheels and four! I doubt we'll ever see someone win MotoGP and F1 championships again. Truly a legend.


A very true feat that no one will match.

HENRY: DAD IS COMING HOME!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:02 pm 
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RIP, pretty sure he will forever remain the only man to win in both bikes and cars

Having said that, any decent rider in that MV Agusta would win


Last edited by nixxxon on Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:05 pm 
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Great driver, great person. RIP John!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:04 pm 
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:-(( RIP - Surtees had my utmost respect and admiration.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:31 am 
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Sad news. I just found out he wasn't Sir John Surtees. That's a shame.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:52 am 
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Fiki wrote:
Sad news. I just found out he wasn't Sir John Surtees. That's a shame.

I dont get the "Sir" thing. What is this useful for? Being Sir or not is not important, the important is what you did and for what people remember you for.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:39 pm 
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So sad for John Surtees that his son Henry died in that racing accident recently. Fortunate to have seen and spoken to JS in the pits a few times: he was so low key and unassuming, a quiet hard worker. His talents went beyond riding bikes and driving cars at the highest level: JS was en expert developer. He lifted the Cooper-Maserati to become a race winner in 1966, carried Honda almost single-handedly to become a race winner in 1967, improved the BRMs then went on to manufacture his own cars and run his own team. A couple if his Surtees-Cosworth TS cars were surprisingly competitive, but funds were limited and John could not employ the top name drivers.

A funny story about Surtees from the early seventies. For the Kyalami GPs 1961-1993 all the drivers stayed at the thatch-roofed bungalows along the river next to the circuit. Known as The Kyalami Ranch, this was a popular and relaxing venue, a few months ago written up with pic by Peter Windsor as one of F1's six favourite hotels (F1 Racing magazine 2016). With good sunny weather, a big swimming pool and, by coincidence, frequented by the South African Airways cabin crew and hostesses. One day with everyone lying around the swimming pool, Surtees was challenged by the other drivers to ride an offroad bike round the coping of the pool. Before starting out, the others invited one of the bikini-clad hostesses to go with Surtees. She got up and walked over, but before getting onto the pillion seat, not having a clue who the rider he was, asked "Does he know how to drive ?". You can imagine to raucous laughs and answers: no, he hasn't even got his licence yet, a beginner, never ridden a bike in his life, etc.

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Last edited by POBRatings on Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:37 pm 
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I have been a bit late responding in this thread because I just didn't know what to say about a man I have admired for so many years... decades even. I am truly sorry to see of his passing, may he be in a better place now.

Thank you Mr.Surtees, I hope you knew how much you were appreciated by racing fans world-wide... both for your presence on the tracks and off.

RIP

Thanks for your story about the pool incident, my friend... somehow that helps, and yes, I can only imagine the comments around the pool!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:58 pm 
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Surtees's ethics. After his first part-season of 4 races for Lotus in 1960, in which he performed outstandingly, Surtees was offered a full-time drive by Chapman alongside Clark for 1961. Surtees said he'd be happy with Clark as a team-mate as they 'got on well together and Jim was good'. Surtees then asked 'what about Lotus's first GP winner and senior driver Innes Ireland. Chapman said he would have to go. John promptly turned down the drive, not wanting to get it at Ireland's expense.

Surtees then had little choice for 1961 and joined the Bowmaker funded team of Coopers for 1961, but they had year-old Type 53 Coopers so Surtees had no chance to win.

Had Surtees and Clark been paired at Lotus they'd surely have been one of the greatest driver teams of all time, along with Senna-Prost and Nuvolari-Carracciola (1932). As I've often banged on about, Surtees remains the greatest GP driver with the fewest competitive cars in his career.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:17 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Sad news. I just found out he wasn't Sir John Surtees. That's a shame.

I dont get the "Sir" thing. What is this useful for? Being Sir or not is not important, the important is what you did and for what people remember you for.


It's just the highest form of recognition for what he actually achieved in the UK. It's not that it's particularly useful for anything it's just the highest honour(I think at least) that you can be awarded in the UK so someone that did something truly unique and at the highest possible standard on a world stage gets over looked for 50 years while dodgy businessmen,deviants and crooks get it dished out to them like sweets stings a bit as an outsider looking in.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:03 am 
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nixxxon wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Sad news. I just found out he wasn't Sir John Surtees. That's a shame.

I dont get the "Sir" thing. What is this useful for? Being Sir or not is not important, the important is what you did and for what people remember you for.

It is not a matter of being useful, why should it need to be? It is an official recognition. I thought John's unique place in the history of motorsports, and the way his achievements have reflected on British society, would have been officially recognized long ago.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:30 pm 
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The fact that Andy Murray has one for basically being the first non fairy cakes brit at tennis in 70 years, and that a lot of the medal winning Olympians got knighted for basically winning at their single chosen sport once or twice, while someone like Surtees who didn't just master one discipline, but two, before going on to run a team and contribute no end to British Motorsport didn't get one just sticks in the throat. Ron should be up for one too, it seems like motorsport gets overlooked quite heavily when it comes to the sporting achievement related knighthoods.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:13 am 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
The fact that Andy Murray has one for basically being the first non fairy cakes brit at tennis in 70 years, and that a lot of the medal winning Olympians got knighted for basically winning at their single chosen sport once or twice, while someone like Surtees who didn't just master one discipline, but two, before going on to run a team and contribute no end to British Motorsport didn't get one just sticks in the throat. Ron should be up for one too, it seems like motorsport gets overlooked quite heavily when it comes to the sporting achievement related knighthoods.


And Newry.

TBH it's a sport were we Brits have dominated in many areas. I guess a Brit doing well out of F1 is so unremarkable it doesn't get noticed.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:54 am 
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nixxxon wrote:
RIP, pretty sure he will forever remain the only man to win in both bikes and cars

Having said that, any decent rider in that MV Agusta would win


A true legend, may he forever rest in peace.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:43 pm 
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Imo the relative lack of recognition for John Surtees is due to widespread antipathy towards motor racing. Many actively dislike motor racing, considering it a raucous, wild-eyed, macho form of entertainment. Many sports journalists do not consider it a sport, that the drivers are not athletes. The fact that cars are involved bamboozles many.....I mean, you have to work with your hands, get dirty and work on the blasted things. :thumbdown:

Not athletes? Hilarious then that James Hunt and Jody Scheckter each won one of those multi-disciplinary sports competitions in the late seventies. And how allround fit today's drivers are. Pics of Schumacher at 43 show how strong and fit he was.:thumbup:

John Surtees was not a self-promoting person. He was active in the days before PR agents. As mentioned above, it is unimpressive that his phenomenally successful career, covering probably more than 50 years, is not recognised.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:21 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
It's just the highest form of recognition for what he actually achieved in the UK. It's not that it's particularly useful for anything it's just the highest honour(I think at least) that you can be awarded in the UK so someone that did something truly unique and at the highest possible standard on a world stage gets over looked for 50 years while dodgy businessmen,deviants and crooks get it dished out to them like sweets stings a bit as an outsider looking in.
Fiki wrote:
It is not a matter of being useful, why should it need to be? It is an official recognition. I thought John's unique place in the history of motorsports, and the way his achievements have reflected on British society, would have been officially recognized long ago.

So what I'm saying is that it doesnt matter if the recognition is in form of a "Sir" title, but the important is to simply have recognition, and he had it.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:28 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
It's just the highest form of recognition for what he actually achieved in the UK. It's not that it's particularly useful for anything it's just the highest honour(I think at least) that you can be awarded in the UK so someone that did something truly unique and at the highest possible standard on a world stage gets over looked for 50 years while dodgy businessmen,deviants and crooks get it dished out to them like sweets stings a bit as an outsider looking in.
Fiki wrote:
It is not a matter of being useful, why should it need to be? It is an official recognition. I thought John's unique place in the history of motorsports, and the way his achievements have reflected on British society, would have been officially recognized long ago.

So what I'm saying is that it doesnt matter if the recognition is in form of a "Sir" title, but the important is to simply have recognition, and he had it.


From fans he certainly had it(recognition) and of course that's more important. But from the establishment not, which considering who they usually recognise is why it's seen as a slap in the face and a bitter pill to swallow.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:30 pm 
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To put into context the level at which the establishment rates motor racing - Lewis Hamilton has the most minor honer, an MBE. The establishment consider he has made no more impact than Susie Wolff, also an MBE.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:30 pm 
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:thumbup: Lotus49 and Mikey and others above here. If one considers that Robert Mugabe (Pres of Zimbabwe) was knighted or OBEd (not sure if any difference?) in 1994, maybe the award-givers' judgement is dubious.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:00 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
To put into context the level at which the establishment rates motor racing - Lewis Hamilton has the most minor honer, an MBE. The establishment consider he has made no more impact than Susie Wolff, also an MBE.

And the fact that Susie Wolff received an MBE at all leaves me scratching my head a little bit.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:20 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
To put into context the level at which the establishment rates motor racing - Lewis Hamilton has the most minor honer, an MBE. The establishment consider he has made no more impact than Susie Wolff, also an MBE.

And the fact that Susie Wolff received an MBE at all leaves me scratching my head a little bit.


As ever with this type of thing, its not what you've done.....

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:47 pm 
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Nice vid of Surtees on the homepage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5Ou-TBnBVs

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