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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:11 am 
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Blackcat75 wrote:
A testing plan that ends with;
"Test n+1: Test the front wing with increased angles until it probably fails and breaks off at Vmax so that we can validate our front wing mounting point failure prediction. See appendices in warehouses 1-15 for the associated risk registers for this test."

Even Flavio would think twice about signing that test plan off. ;)


Of course not, but as said before I'm not talking about testing to destruction, just about actual realworld usage testing i.e. testing in realistic conditions at representative speeds.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:18 pm 
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mds wrote:
Blackcat75 wrote:
A testing plan that ends with;
"Test n+1: Test the front wing with increased angles until it probably fails and breaks off at Vmax so that we can validate our front wing mounting point failure prediction. See appendices in warehouses 1-15 for the associated risk registers for this test."

Even Flavio would think twice about signing that test plan off. ;)


Of course not, but as said before I'm not talking about testing to destruction, just about actual realworld usage testing i.e. testing in realistic conditions at representative speeds.


Yea I know, just having a chuckle and enjoying your chat - no offence intended.
You are clearly one of the more knowledgeable and intellectual posters here.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:32 pm 
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Blackcat75 wrote:
mds wrote:
Blackcat75 wrote:
A testing plan that ends with;
"Test n+1: Test the front wing with increased angles until it probably fails and breaks off at Vmax so that we can validate our front wing mounting point failure prediction. See appendices in warehouses 1-15 for the associated risk registers for this test."

Even Flavio would think twice about signing that test plan off. ;)


Of course not, but as said before I'm not talking about testing to destruction, just about actual realworld usage testing i.e. testing in realistic conditions at representative speeds.


Yea I know, just having a chuckle and enjoying your chat - no offence intended.
You are clearly one of the more knowledgeable and intellectual posters here.


Too much credit, but thank you!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:40 pm 
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Looks like Ferrari haven't made the best start in the reliability stakes this year. New ES and CE for Kimi already!



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:55 pm 
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I just read that Mercedes are 5 kg overweight! They haven't optimized the weight of the car yet apparently. That suggests lots of room for improvement.

http://www.foxsports.com/motor/story/f1 ... tle-032517


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:36 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
I just read that Mercedes are 5 kg overweight! They haven't optimized the weight of the car yet apparently. That suggests lots of room for improvement.

http://www.foxsports.com/motor/story/f1 ... tle-032517

That's interesting. I wonder if it explains the rumours that Mercedes got a bit lost with setup/new parts and went back to a more rudimentary/heavier set of parts.

I know an F1 car can't use more than 105 kgs of fuel in each race, but does anyone know how much lap time 5 Kgs is worth in Melbourne?

Kimi... :uhoh:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:07 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
I just read that Mercedes are 5 kg overweight! They haven't optimized the weight of the car yet apparently. That suggests lots of room for improvement.

http://www.foxsports.com/motor/story/f1 ... tle-032517


How much does that oil weigh???

;)

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:34 am 
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Blackcat75 wrote:
I know an F1 car can't use more than 105 kgs of fuel in each race, but does anyone know how much lap time 5 Kgs is worth in Melbourne?

About 1.5 tenths per lap.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:40 am 
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I know it's still early days, but does anyone fear that this season could be as bad as 2000 and 2007 in terms of the top 2 teams being in a completely different planet to everyone else?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:43 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
I know it's still early days, but does anyone fear that this season could be as bad as 2000 and 2007 in terms of the top 2 teams being in a completely different planet to everyone else?



Even if it is, it will still be a change to just one team so will automatically be better received.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:46 am 
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Lotus49 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
I know it's still early days, but does anyone fear that this season could be as bad as 2000 and 2007 in terms of the top 2 teams being in a completely different planet to everyone else?



Even if it is, it will still be a change to just one team so will automatically be better received.


It could actually end up worse.
When Merc had dominance they let the drivers race as there was no one barking at their heels. If there is a squeeze, drivers my be under orders to be sure Merc gain maximum points from each race. Which may mean hold position


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:22 am 
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moby wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
I know it's still early days, but does anyone fear that this season could be as bad as 2000 and 2007 in terms of the top 2 teams being in a completely different planet to everyone else?



Even if it is, it will still be a change to just one team so will automatically be better received.


It could actually end up worse.
When Merc had dominance they let the drivers race as there was no one barking at their heels. If there is a squeeze, drivers my be under orders to be sure Merc gain maximum points from each race. Which may mean hold position


Still have to fight the lead Ferrari at least so it's still preferable to anyone not a Mercedes fan. Two man fight within one team or at least two man fight with two teams.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:35 am 
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Do not underestimate the development force behind Mercedes. They endeavour to make a certain aspect of the car 99% better. This in turns plays in their hands and by far their development is far far better then the rest of the field, importantly than Ferrari. By the name you can see I am SF fan, however, I see Mercedes patching this up soon and we have no idea on the Mercedes or Ferrari even RB's compare on faster, down-force related tracks.

Mercedes will win the WDC and WCC, Ferrari close in second, unless RBR find their wings!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:28 pm 
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Considering that Räikkönen seemed to be out of form here, Ferrari overall had a small but significant advantage over Mercedes in Melbourne. May change or get bigger at other tracks.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:47 pm 
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Game on! A 2-team battle for the title is absolutely brilliant for the sport, especially when one of them is Ferrari

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:21 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Game on! A 2-team battle for the title is absolutely brilliant for the sport, especially when one of them is Ferrari


Don't really care whether it's Ferrari or RBR, now it is Ferrari and I would love to see Vettel take it to Hamilton. I just hope that they can do this consistently and don't fade away in the second half of the year.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:39 pm 
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mds wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Game on! A 2-team battle for the title is absolutely brilliant for the sport, especially when one of them is Ferrari


Don't really care whether it's Ferrari or RBR, now it is Ferrari and I would love to see Vettel take it to Hamilton. I just hope that they can do this consistently and don't fade away in the second half of the year.

I don't mind which team it is either. But as the most popular team by a country mile, having Ferrari fighting at the front is always good for F1

This might be the Hamilton v Vettel title fight we've been waiting for :o

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:44 am 
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ScuderiaFerrari wrote:
Do not underestimate the development force behind Mercedes. They endeavour to make a certain aspect of the car 99% better. This in turns plays in their hands and by far their development is far far better then the rest of the field, importantly than Ferrari. By the name you can see I am SF fan, however, I see Mercedes patching this up soon and we have no idea on the Mercedes or Ferrari even RB's compare on faster, down-force related tracks.

Mercedes will win the WDC and WCC, Ferrari close in second, unless RBR find their wings!


I think Red Bull will be mighty by the middle of the year.
In the last few years you would say that the biggest development gains come from Red Bull, then Merc then Ferrari.

There are some big question marks over both Merc and Ferrari.
How much influence did Alison have on this years Ferrari design?
How important was Paddy Lowe in driving the in season development for the last few years at Merc?

The weakness of the Merc seems to be only how sensitive it is to following other cars vs Ferrari.

Merc lost the race here being stuck behind Max's Red Bull. Had Ham not been held back, Vettel would have emerged behind Ham after the pit stops, and would have had to overtake on track to take the win.
As Melbourne is notoriously hard to overtake, Ham would have probably been able to hold him off.

Can't wait for China where I think Merc will bounce back for the win.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:18 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
I just read that Mercedes are 5 kg overweight! They haven't optimized the weight of the car yet apparently. That suggests lots of room for improvement.

http://www.foxsports.com/motor/story/f1 ... tle-032517


What a coincidence that Force India which also uses a Mercedes engine, is overweight!

Not that the Mercedes engine is heavier this year but apart from these 2 teams, not heard any other team claiming to be overweight.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:21 am 
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Randine wrote:
ScuderiaFerrari wrote:
Do not underestimate the development force behind Mercedes. They endeavour to make a certain aspect of the car 99% better. This in turns plays in their hands and by far their development is far far better then the rest of the field, importantly than Ferrari. By the name you can see I am SF fan, however, I see Mercedes patching this up soon and we have no idea on the Mercedes or Ferrari even RB's compare on faster, down-force related tracks.

Mercedes will win the WDC and WCC, Ferrari close in second, unless RBR find their wings!


I think Red Bull will be mighty by the middle of the year.
In the last few years you would say that the biggest development gains come from Red Bull, then Merc then Ferrari.

There are some big question marks over both Merc and Ferrari.
How much influence did Alison have on this years Ferrari design?
How important was Paddy Lowe in driving the in season development for the last few years at Merc?

The weakness of the Merc seems to be only how sensitive it is to following other cars vs Ferrari.

Merc lost the race here being stuck behind Max's Red Bull. Had Ham not been held back, Vettel would have emerged behind Ham after the pit stops, and would have had to overtake on track to take the win.
As Melbourne is notoriously hard to overtake, Ham would have probably been able to hold him off.

Can't wait for China where I think Merc will bounce back for the win.


If Hamilton does win, still it would be too early to assume that Mercedes is clearly the best car on the grid. Unless he wins by some margin over Vettel then it would shed some light on this issue.

China as a track is more overtake friendly & the weather may be cooler as well.

But I sincerely hope that Ferrari is as strong as the Merc or vice versa for the sake of competition. I also hope Bottas & Raikkonen get into the mix. Sooner or later, Red Bull will crash the party. :nod:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:41 pm 
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It seems these cars are reasonable close, close enough for the drivers to make the differences.

Does anybody have a figure for how much of a time penalty one lap of fuel is around Australia?

Hamilton vs Vettel lap chart -

http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... n%20Vettel

1) Vettel when released from Hamilton didn't go much quicker, he managed one lap 0.3 quicker (of the 6 laps) than Hamiltons in lap but the others were all in the ball park of the laps Hamilton did before pitting. Vettel was quick but it appears he wasn't being heavily held up in that first stint.

2) Fastest laps. We can not read too much into it as nobody had much to push for, but on paper it seems pretty close. Fuel adjusted Hamilton was probably quickest but the others set there times in similar conditions and were all close.

- Hamilton did a 27.00 with 13 laps of fuel on board and 27 lap old tyres
- Vettel did a 26.60 with 4 laps of fuel on board and 30 lap old tyres
- Bottas did a 26.59 with 2 laps of fuel on board and 31 lap old tyres
- Raikkonen did 26.53 with 2 laps of fuel on board and 30 lap old tyres

3) Hamilton vs Vettel final stint
By the time Hamilton was by Max the gap was up to 5.8 seconds on lap 25. Vettel ran this entire stint with tyres 7 laps younger tyres so if the car-driver packages were equal you would expect Vettel to pull away at a couple of tenths per lap. Traffic played a part and neither pushed too hard I imagine, but it played out as if the cars were very equal but the newer tyres made the gap up to 10 seconds.

Conclusion -
The Mercedes and Ferrari were very close this race and either could have won. I suspect if you the race was run again tomorrow Mercedes would win as really the race was lost through strategy.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:12 pm 
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Interesting analysis lamo. I agree Mercedes and Ferrari were about as equally fast as it gets. Hope it stays that way the whole year!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:39 pm 
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massive development from both teams and the constructors championship will go to which team does this best


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:35 pm 
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Ferrari SF70H floor flex rumour swirls in Bahrain

http://www.thisisf1.com/2017/04/14/ferr ... n-bahrain/


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:39 pm 
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slide wrote:
massive development from both teams and the constructors championship will go to which team does this best


I think that Ferrari have the better fundamental concept and that Merc are more banking on evolutions of their previous solutions. I reckon that as long as Ferrari can keep pace with Merc in the engine department that they'll have the best car for the season overall. But we don't know of course and that's half the fun.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:45 am 
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2017 Bahrain - Senior Team Personnel press conference - Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU5ZCCctnsw

Slightly mischievous comments from Mattia Binotto at the end of this, I'd say.

15 minutes in.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:11 am 
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Reading that Mercedes will bring a new front suspension to Spain, aimed at better managing the tyres.
Also, weight saving will become even more of an issue since they're apparently coming with a permanent solution for the T-wing installation construction that adds another kg to the already overweight W08.

Source: http://soymotor.com/noticias/mercedes-p ... ana-933523

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 10:08 am 
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mds wrote:
Reading that Mercedes will bring a new front suspension to Spain, aimed at better managing the tyres.
Also, weight saving will become even more of an issue since they're apparently coming with a permanent solution for the T-wing installation construction that adds another kg to the already overweight W08.

Source: http://soymotor.com/noticias/mercedes-p ... ana-933523

interesting that they attribute Mercedes' weight issues to the their loss of their banned suspension systems. Wonder how much stronger the Mercedes would have been if they had been allowed to keep it?


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 12:13 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
mds wrote:
Reading that Mercedes will bring a new front suspension to Spain, aimed at better managing the tyres.
Also, weight saving will become even more of an issue since they're apparently coming with a permanent solution for the T-wing installation construction that adds another kg to the already overweight W08.

Source: http://soymotor.com/noticias/mercedes-p ... ana-933523

interesting that they attribute Mercedes' weight issues to the their loss of their banned suspension systems. Wonder how much stronger the Mercedes would have been if they had been allowed to keep it?


I wonder if the drivers are trying to cut their weight? Hamilton and Bottas are two of the stockier drivers. I reckon a few KGs could be shaved.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 2:20 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
mds wrote:
Reading that Mercedes will bring a new front suspension to Spain, aimed at better managing the tyres.
Also, weight saving will become even more of an issue since they're apparently coming with a permanent solution for the T-wing installation construction that adds another kg to the already overweight W08.

Source: http://soymotor.com/noticias/mercedes-p ... ana-933523

interesting that they attribute Mercedes' weight issues to the their loss of their banned suspension systems. Wonder how much stronger the Mercedes would have been if they had been allowed to keep it?

About 3 tenths quicker it has been said because of the weight of the car.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 2:57 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
mds wrote:
Reading that Mercedes will bring a new front suspension to Spain, aimed at better managing the tyres.
Also, weight saving will become even more of an issue since they're apparently coming with a permanent solution for the T-wing installation construction that adds another kg to the already overweight W08.

Source: http://soymotor.com/noticias/mercedes-p ... ana-933523

interesting that they attribute Mercedes' weight issues to the their loss of their banned suspension systems. Wonder how much stronger the Mercedes would have been if they had been allowed to keep it?

About 3 tenths quicker it has been said because of the weight of the car.

is that just factoring the weight, not any advantage the suspension system itself may have given?

Sounds like the Merc would again have been the class of the field. One wonders how far ahead they would have been in previous years without that suspension


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:02 pm 
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I heard they are running 4-5 kgs overweight, I suspect that is costing them about 0.150 per lap in just weight. But then there is the lack of optimisation due to not being able to run ballast and then the gain of the suspension itself. I think with the suspension it would probably be like 2015 against Ferrari. i.e. Ferrari can win with a bit of strategy and luck on certain tracks but Mercedes is still the class of the field and basically winning every race with a near 0.5 per lap advantage. Even with just 0.2 a lap Mercedes likely would have won every race this season and locked out all the front rows bar Russia due to Hamilton.

Weren't Red Bull also running that suspension, they have dropped about 1.0-1.2 seconds per lap to Ferrari from the end of last year.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 10:33 pm 
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lamo wrote:
I heard they are running 4-5 kgs overweight, I suspect that is costing them about 0.150 per lap in just weight.

Yep, that sounds about right - we always hear that '10kg of extra weight costs about 0.3 seconds per lap', so they should be losing a tenth and a half for 5kg. Considering how tight things are with Ferrari, that's still a lot though.

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