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Official 2017 MotoGP Thread
http://forum.planet-f1.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14144
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Author:  flyboy10 [ Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

What happened to Dani? I missed the start and within a few laps he was dead last.

Author:  sandman1347 [ Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

flyboy10 wrote:
What happened to Dani? I missed the start and within a few laps he was dead last.

Dani just struggles to get heat into the tires because he's so light.

Author:  flyboy10 [ Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

sandman1347 wrote:
flyboy10 wrote:
What happened to Dani? I missed the start and within a few laps he was dead last.

Dani just struggles to get heat into the tires because he's so light.

So he just got overtaken by the 12 guys behind him?

Author:  Cold Gin [ Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Flyboy--he was 5 seconds a lap slower than the leaders at one point. Cal Crutchlow crashed, went to dead last, got up, and passed Pedrosa before the end of the race. His weight is a huge penalty in rain races with these Michelin tires. As sandman stated, he can't get them to warm up, therefore he can't get any lean angle, he can't get any traction, and he can't stop the bike with any authority. Every lap gets worse and worse.

Author:  sandman1347 [ Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

flyboy10 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
flyboy10 wrote:
What happened to Dani? I missed the start and within a few laps he was dead last.

Dani just struggles to get heat into the tires because he's so light.

So he just got overtaken by the 12 guys behind him?

As Cold Gin mentioned above, the problem compounds itself over the course of the race distance. Dani struggles early in extreme wet conditions to get heat into the tires and the issue grows from there as he then cannot get up to the right pace to get temperature into the brakes etc. With Bridgestones this wasn't nearly as big of an issue but with these tires he really struggles.

Author:  jono794 [ Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Cold Gin wrote:
Flyboy--he was 5 seconds a lap slower than the leaders at one point. Cal Crutchlow crashed, went to dead last, got up, and passed Pedrosa before the end of the race. His weight is a huge penalty in rain races with these Michelin tires. As sandman stated, he can't get them to warm up, therefore he can't get any lean angle, he can't get any traction, and he can't stop the bike with any authority. Every lap gets worse and worse.


Look at Jerez last time out. When its a hot day no one can hold a candle to him. The purest, most economical style I've ever seen.

Author:  Cold Gin [ Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Jono-

When the conditions are favorable to him, yes, he rides very well. Said favorable conditions have becoming a lot more sparse in the Michelin era. On THAT particular hot day in jerez, he was faster than all. It just doesn't happen every time out, and his diminutive size punishes him with tires unless he can get them to certain window of warmth and grip. Obviously in the rain, he has no chance with these Michelins, and that wasn't the case with the Bridgestones.

Another thing that is puzzling, he used to have starts that made everyone else look pedestrian in comparison, and that just doesn't happen anymore. I miss seeing that, him being a demon off the line.

Pedrosa is a very likeable rider, and he is easily one of the best that has never won a title. It sadly looks unlikely that he'll challenge again, he is obviously not going to do it this season unless something calamitous occurs to the leading guys. I don't see him ripping off several wins in a row on pure pace over Marquez, Dovi, or Vinales. I may be wrong, it could happen, but I don't think so.

Nothing against Pedrosa, either. This new era of regulations---tires, engines, and software---have in general disadvantaged him. I do think, barring any crashes or further rain races, he has an outside chance of competing for third in the table. Something will have to go wrong for someone though, and he is going to have to be on the podium regularly, and snag a couple of wins. Never know---this season has been full of surprises.

Author:  flyboy10 [ Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Thanks to everyone for their answers. I just didn't know how disadvantaged he was by cold/wet conditions on these tyres. I remember him leading races in the rain and pulling away at a spectacular rate (before falling off). If his mass is compounding the problem, could they add weight to the bike to help in the wet?

Author:  Cold Gin [ Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/882364 ... or-pedrosa

Author:  tootsie323 [ Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Why does he not have a lead-lined suit for wet races???

Author:  Cold Gin [ Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Because it'd very likely hinder movement so much to cause crashes, or awkward riding and very slow times. I believe they can ballast the motorcycle, but in Pedrosa's case, it doesn't make enough of a difference. Being agile and nimble on the bike is everything. I think I've read somewhere that Pedrosa weighs around 115 pounds. He's truly jockey-size.

Author:  Cold Gin [ Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/882719 ... -wednesday

Impressive.

Author:  Cold Gin [ Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Rossi!!! Unreal performance.

Author:  Laz_T800 [ Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Cold Gin wrote:
Rossi!!! Unreal performance.


Phenomenal grit, bravery and skills. Hope he gets the result he deserves from this.

Author:  Warheart01 [ Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Rossi, what a legend!

Fingers crossed for a good result today.

Author:  jeffw [ Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Just can't say enough about Rossi, 5th with broken leg in 2 places. My god what a race.

Author:  Cold Gin [ Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Brilliant race to watch on a fabulous circuit. Rossi showing sensational grit and determination. Lorenzo showing continual improvement and pace as his riding evolves on the Ducati. Marquez again displaying ability that illustrates why he's the best rider in the world. It's almost unfair the extra 10% he has.

Tough race for Dovi, probably a track that doesn't suit him, but a mediocre performance when he needed to come up big. Vinales fairing a bit better, but this too was an overall disappointment for his title hopes.

Special honors to Mika Kallio-Bradley Smith should be very, very concerned.

Hopefully the final races will produce the same excitement. What a season!

Author:  sandman1347 [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Joan Mir is one to watch. He is having the best Moto3 season I've ever seen. Okay he's already turned 20 years of age but I still think he will be a great rider at the higher levels. Another brilliant performance from him today and he has basically wrapped up the championship at this point.

Another one to watch is Morbidelli. He seemed like another Iannone last year but this year he has proven that he is beyond that. He still has that all or nothing mentality but he has been extremely consistent for the most part this year. Will be interesting to see what he does next year in MotoGP. I really can't predict his future as far as whether or not he'll be a star in the premiere class.

In the main event, awesome performance by Marc. He is truly the best rider on earth and he proves it almost every race weekend. The Hondas got it right here but it was great to see Lorenzo on form and on the podium. It's really starting to come together for him I think and I predict that he will be a threat for the championship next season.

Terrible weekend for Dovi and he will need to avoid having anymore like that if he wants to win this championship. He may never have a better chance in his career to win one.

Author:  mcdo [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

My preference for Dovi to win it this year took a major blow. Very disappointed in the result

Author:  Zazu [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Think Marquez has one hand on the trophy now and just needs to make sure he doesnt DNF. Dovi doesnt go well at Philip Island so has to produce excellent results at Sepang and Motegi

Morbidelli went well in the second half of last year as well. Has been good this year but I still think this years Moto2 is a weak championship.

Mir has been impressive in Moto3 but I think Binder was better last year.

I like the races this weekend. Much better having smaller gaps in between the races

Author:  mds [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Zazu wrote:
Mir has been impressive in Moto3 but I think Binder was better last year.


Your good right of course, but what are you going by then? After 14 races Mir has more wins than Binder after 18, and he's on target to outscore Binder too. Also taking into account Binder needed 5 full seasons to do what he did while Mir is in his second...


In other news, Mir has gotten a penalty for dangerous riding yesterday. But it's a bit of a joke: he has a 6 place grid penalty for next race. Yeah, a six place grid penalty in Moto3, like that is going to matter just one bit. Spanish rider winning in Spain, could anyone have seen a Spanish organisation take a win away? :)

Author:  Zazu [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Binder was on a dreadful bike for most of his lower class career. Last year he was on the podium every round when it was dry and when he was on song he was in a class of his own. Admittedly his wet weather form wasnt great.

I don't think mir has had a pole this year yet. The one thing I'd give him a lot of credit for is he has won an incredible amount of races this year where there is a group of potential winners at the start of the last lap.

In moto3 pretty much every thing goes on the last lap. Could quite easily start from the back of the grid in motegi and still win

Author:  mds [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Zazu wrote:
Binder was on a dreadful bike for most of his lower class career.


Nah that's not right. In 3 out of his 5 years he had a race-winning bike. One year obviously he won the title, but two other years (2012, 2014) his team mate (resp. Salom and Oliveira) won multiple races and ended up second in the overall standings. He was also beaten by Oliveira in 2013.

Quote:
I don't think mir has had a pole this year yet. The one thing I'd give him a lot of credit for is he has won an incredible amount of races this year where there is a group of potential winners at the start of the last lap.

In moto3 pretty much every thing goes on the last lap. Could quite easily start from the back of the grid in motegi and still win


Definitely true, all of this, but then that makes it harder to actually win a race since so often it looks like it could be anyone taking the win - the fact that Mir prevails so much means his racing instinct is incredibly good.

Author:  Zazu [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Luis salom was class in moto3, as was Olivera.

In 2013 and 2014 he was on a mahindra which was most definitely not a good bike. iirc Bagnaia is the only person to win on that bike

I'm not saying he's the best rider I've seen overal in the lower class. But in 2016 who was dominant. I notably remember jerez where he won at a canter having been relegated to last due to a technical infringement.

Author:  sandman1347 [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

When I said that Mir was having the best Moto3 season I've ever seen, I meant specifically Moto3. Marc Marquez had a better year in the old 125cc class back in 2010 as did Rossi back in 1997. In the old 250cc class, Daijiro Katoh had a better year in 2001. In Moto2, Marquez again in 2012 had a dominant year.

In the Moto3 class, Binder last year was amazing. I'll never forget that win from dead last on the grid at Jerez. The first of many victories for Brad. That was close to as good as this year for Mir but Mir has been a bit better IMO. He's always there every race and his performances in the dying laps of close races has been brilliant. He seems to always find a way to win. I think I heard that he will be joining Olivera and Binder at KTM next year in Moto2. That should be a pretty special team.

Author:  mds [ Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Zazu wrote:
Luis salom was class in moto3, as was Olivera.

In 2013 and 2014 he was on a mahindra which was most definitely not a good bike. iirc Bagnaia is the only person to win on that bike


You're right, I mixed up the years. I meant 2012 and 2015, next to 2016 obviously. So no he was not on a dreadful bike for most of his Moto3 tenure, he was on a winning bike for most it. He just managed to step it up in 2016.

Author:  pokerman [ Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

mds wrote:
Zazu wrote:
Luis salom was class in moto3, as was Olivera.

In 2013 and 2014 he was on a mahindra which was most definitely not a good bike. iirc Bagnaia is the only person to win on that bike


You're right, I mixed up the years. I meant 2012 and 2015, next to 2016 obviously. So no he was not on a dreadful bike for most of his Moto3 tenure, he was on a winning bike for most it. He just managed to step it up in 2016.

I would say that Mir is a bigger talent than Binder, it took Binder 5 years to win a race in Moto3 and that was the year he won the title, 2 of those previous years he was on a bike capable of winning races, the year before he was on a really good bike, Oliveira nearly won the title, Binder had 4 podiums and not one win, he finished 6th in the series.

Contrast that with Mir who as a rookie won a race and finished 5th in Moto3, he also easily beat his more experienced teammates one of which was Fabio Quartararo who was supposed to be the next big thing and was touted as one of the favourites but finished 13th in the series, I would say that year that the team/bike was not that good.

Author:  pokerman [ Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

sandman1347 wrote:
When I said that Mir was having the best Moto3 season I've ever seen, I meant specifically Moto3. Marc Marquez had a better year in the old 125cc class back in 2010 as did Rossi back in 1997. In the old 250cc class, Daijiro Katoh had a better year in 2001. In Moto2, Marquez again in 2012 had a dominant year.

In the Moto3 class, Binder last year was amazing. I'll never forget that win from dead last on the grid at Jerez. The first of many victories for Brad. That was close to as good as this year for Mir but Mir has been a bit better IMO. He's always there every race and his performances in the dying laps of close races has been brilliant. He seems to always find a way to win. I think I heard that he will be joining Olivera and Binder at KTM next year in Moto2. That should be a pretty special team.

I heard that Mir was replacing Morbidelli at MarcVDS next year.

Author:  Zazu [ Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
Zazu wrote:
Luis salom was class in moto3, as was Olivera.

In 2013 and 2014 he was on a mahindra which was most definitely not a good bike. iirc Bagnaia is the only person to win on that bike


You're right, I mixed up the years. I meant 2012 and 2015, next to 2016 obviously. So no he was not on a dreadful bike for most of his Moto3 tenure, he was on a winning bike for most it. He just managed to step it up in 2016.

I would say that Mir is a bigger talent than Binder, it took Binder 5 years to win a race in Moto3 and that was the year he won the title, 2 of those previous years he was on a bike capable of winning races, the year before he was on a really good bike, Oliveira nearly won the title, Binder had 4 podiums and not one win, he finished 6th in the series.

Contrast that with Mir who as a rookie won a race and finished 5th in Moto3, he also easily beat his more experienced teammates one of which was Fabio Quartararo who was supposed to be the next big thing and was touted as one of the favourites but finished 13th in the series, I would say that year that the team/bike was not that good.


The 2015 KTM wasnt as good as the Honda. It was upgraded midseason which put it back on par.
I've not compared Binders and Mirs careers, just Binder was imperious in 2016.

Lots of riders look very good in Moto3. I think Moto2 is a much better indicator

Author:  pokerman [ Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Zazu wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
Zazu wrote:
Luis salom was class in moto3, as was Olivera.

In 2013 and 2014 he was on a mahindra which was most definitely not a good bike. iirc Bagnaia is the only person to win on that bike


You're right, I mixed up the years. I meant 2012 and 2015, next to 2016 obviously. So no he was not on a dreadful bike for most of his Moto3 tenure, he was on a winning bike for most it. He just managed to step it up in 2016.

I would say that Mir is a bigger talent than Binder, it took Binder 5 years to win a race in Moto3 and that was the year he won the title, 2 of those previous years he was on a bike capable of winning races, the year before he was on a really good bike, Oliveira nearly won the title, Binder had 4 podiums and not one win, he finished 6th in the series.

Contrast that with Mir who as a rookie won a race and finished 5th in Moto3, he also easily beat his more experienced teammates one of which was Fabio Quartararo who was supposed to be the next big thing and was touted as one of the favourites but finished 13th in the series, I would say that year that the team/bike was not that good.


The 2015 KTM wasnt as good as the Honda. It was upgraded midseason which put it back on par.
I've not compared Binders and Mirs careers, just Binder was imperious in 2016.

Lots of riders look very good in Moto3. I think Moto2 is a much better indicator

After the KTM was upgraded I would say that it was the bike to be on in the hands of Oliveira, Binder's teammate.

However I would agree that looking good in Moto3 is no real indication of future stars although you seem to fly Binder's flag onto that, regarding Moto2 Binder has yet to prove himself at that level thus far although he has been somewhat crippled by injury.

Author:  Cold Gin [ Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Really, REALLY interesting grid for the race. Obviously the tricky conditions do not favor Yamaha, at least not the factory team. Hope Vinales gets a dry race, otherwise he's toast. Marquez a solid third, and probably licking his chops for the race, as he could take a commanding lead with a good result and Dovi and Maverick having poor starting positions.

Lorenzo a solid 5th on the grid, really rooting for him this continue his good run of form.

Author:  Zazu [ Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Yesterday, Marquez was operating on another level to everyone else. If he's used wets towards the end of Q2 and did a clean lap he'd have taken pole by seconds

Rain today looks dreadful. Fearing delay/postponement

Author:  Zazu [ Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Also, find it amazing how poor Pawi is in the wet in Moto2

Author:  Cold Gin [ Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

No words!!!!!! Brilliant performance from Dovi and MM. This can't be topped, can it??

Author:  simonr23 [ Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Dovi is changing my opinion of him this year. It’s great seeing him have some fight. He’s still a ‘gentleman’ in his actions though. I thought Marc was going to win, but was rooting for dovi.

Author:  Zazu [ Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Cold Gin wrote:
No words!!!!!! Brilliant performance from Dovi and MM. This can't be topped, can it??


If it's good weather Philip Island will top it next weekend


Small Marquez wobble on last lap completely changed the look of the championship.

Author:  mcdo [ Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Just watched a replay. What a race. Can't get over how great that duel was

Author:  sandman1347 [ Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

Marc had it if not for that little bobble on the last lap. Dovi has impressed me this year with his consistency and his fighting. What a battle that was in the wet! Man I love the way MotoGP championships are so often decided by these epic battles between the contenders. F1 so rarely has that type of season.

It's interesting to note that Yamaha have very clearly dropped behind both Ducati and Honda. They are now firmly the third best factory bike. Often Petrucci is faster than the Yamahas on the satellite bike and Zarco is even faster sometimes on last year's bike. Yamaha clearly took a wrong turn this year and Maverick is not in the position he probably thought he would be in.

Author:  pokerman [ Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

sandman1347 wrote:
Marc had it if not for that little bobble on the last lap. Dovi has impressed me this year with his consistency and his fighting. What a battle that was in the wet! Man I love the way MotoGP championships are so often decided by these epic battles between the contenders. F1 so rarely has that type of season.

It's interesting to note that Yamaha have very clearly dropped behind both Ducati and Honda. They are now firmly the third best factory bike. Often Petrucci is faster than the Yamahas on the satellite bike and Zarco is even faster sometimes on last year's bike. Yamaha clearly took a wrong turn this year and Maverick is not in the position he probably thought he would be in.

The bike seemed to be alright at the beginning of the season when Vinales was winning races but didn't suit Rossi as much, I'll leave it there.

Author:  sandman1347 [ Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Official 2017 MotoGP Thread

pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Marc had it if not for that little bobble on the last lap. Dovi has impressed me this year with his consistency and his fighting. What a battle that was in the wet! Man I love the way MotoGP championships are so often decided by these epic battles between the contenders. F1 so rarely has that type of season.

It's interesting to note that Yamaha have very clearly dropped behind both Ducati and Honda. They are now firmly the third best factory bike. Often Petrucci is faster than the Yamahas on the satellite bike and Zarco is even faster sometimes on last year's bike. Yamaha clearly took a wrong turn this year and Maverick is not in the position he probably thought he would be in.

The bike seemed to be alright at the beginning of the season when Vinales was winning races but didn't suit Rossi as much, I'll leave it there.

That's quite the conspiracy theory you've concocted lol. Any evidence that this is Rossi's fault? I know you don't like the guy but jeez...

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