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 Post subject: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:24 am 
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Just throwing this out there. How would you feel if there was a women only F1 series, which would function as a support race for the main championship?

While I realise that the ideal situation would be to have female drivers in F1 who are competitive with the male drivers (i.e. genuinely fighting it out with them as opposed to being there for sponsorship money, etc.), we have to be realistic and say this is unlikely in the short-medium term, based on the history of the sport.

Motorsport is also one of the only sports where men and women compete head to head. Now obviously the physical limitations that face women in most sports don't apply to the same extent here, though I'm sure they still apply to a certain degree (I don't know enough about the limitations of men vs. women in terms of endurance, coordination, etc. - I'm assuming there are differences, even if very slight). And I assume at least part of the reason for lack of female involvement in motorsport - apart from generally being less interested in it - is a perception that it's a man's game. So to me it still makes sense to have a separate women's league, akin to the WNBA, women's tennis, etc.

This would have two benefits for me:
1. Increasing female interest in the sport and therefore involvement in junior formula, thereby eventually contributing to the likelihood of one day having a female race winner in the main series
2. It would function as a separate support race, increasing on-track action

So how would it work? My suggestion would be that each F1 team is required to field three drivers - two for the main championship, and a third, female, driver who takes part in the women's series. Note that this should not preclude women from taking part in the main F1 series, but obviously if a woman does take part in the main series, that excludes her from taking part in the women's series. You could have a separate race of say 50% of the F1 race distance, with this taking place before the main F1 race. You could even have the female drivers taking part in FP1-FP3 alongside the main championship drivers. To keep costs down, teams could be required to use their previous year's chassis and engine, and perhaps you could even have a certain number of spec parts or limitations on what setup components can be changed to minimise the number of pit crew required.

Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:51 am 
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I think it may install the notion that women should sit below men, somehow inferior. There is no reason why a women could not compete with men. The reason they don't is that not enough want to take karting to a serious level.


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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:54 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I think it may install the notion that women should sit below men, somehow inferior. There is no reason why a women could not compete with men. The reason they don't is that not enough want to take karting to a serious level.

Exactly my first thought when reading the OP.


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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:00 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I think it may install the notion that women should sit below men, somehow inferior. There is no reason why a women could not compete with men. The reason they don't is that not enough want to take karting to a serious level.


Why are there any mens and womens sports then? Why dont we just have sports. I dont agree with this.


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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:06 am 
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Ruste13 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I think it may install the notion that women should sit below men, somehow inferior. There is no reason why a women could not compete with men. The reason they don't is that not enough want to take karting to a serious level.


Why are there any mens and womens sports then? Why dont we just have sports. I dont agree with this.



Because in most sports men and women can't compete on a parity due to a mans superior physicality. F1 is one of the few sports where women can compete with men on an even footing. Lets embrace that.


Last edited by mikeyg123 on Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:06 am 
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Ruste13 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I think it may install the notion that women should sit below men, somehow inferior. There is no reason why a women could not compete with men. The reason they don't is that not enough want to take karting to a serious level.


Why are there any mens and womens sports then? Why dont we just have sports. I dont agree with this.

Because the OP specifically stated it should be a support race for the main event?


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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:07 am 
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There's always a negative response to having a women's-only series. But nobody has ever been able to suggest any other way to create female role models and get more young girls interested in motor racing

There aren't enough girls getting involved in karting. Well how does one fix that problem?

F1 shouldn't ever be closed off to females though. There are enough men in motorsports. A men-only series would not be warranted

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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:16 am 
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mcdo wrote:
There's always a negative response to having a women's-only series. But nobody has ever been able to suggest any other way to create female role models and get more young girls interested in motor racing

There aren't enough girls getting involved in karting. Well how does one fix that problem?

F1 shouldn't ever be closed off to females though. There are enough men in motorsports. A men-only series would not be warranted


For this reason I would support creation of such a series. It would help advance and promote women in motorsports, not hurt them.


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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:21 am 
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mcdo wrote:
There's always a negative response to having a women's-only series. But nobody has ever been able to suggest any other way to create female role models and get more young girls interested in motor racing

There aren't enough girls getting involved in karting. Well how does one fix that problem?

F1 shouldn't ever be closed off to females though. There are enough men in motorsports. A men-only series would not be warranted


That's actually not true. Loads of young girls go karting. They just fall away from it when they get into their mid teens and have more control over their lives. What that says to me is that fewer teenage girls want to race karts. Why is that a problem?


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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:46 am 
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Tassadar wrote:
mcdo wrote:
There's always a negative response to having a women's-only series. But nobody has ever been able to suggest any other way to create female role models and get more young girls interested in motor racing

There aren't enough girls getting involved in karting. Well how does one fix that problem?

F1 shouldn't ever be closed off to females though. There are enough men in motorsports. A men-only series would not be warranted


For this reason I would support creation of such a series. It would help advance and promote women in motorsports, not hurt them.

Initially yes, it would help at a grassroots level. The issue comes later down the line for me, once you've separated men and women in motorsport it's going to be difficult to integrate them again.

Yes in the short term it would be a good thing, in the long term it would probably be quite damaging to its own cause. I think a better way is simply to encourage more female drivers to come through the already existing ranks, perhaps young driving academies for females is a good place to start. I think with the general empowerment of women in society at the moment a lot of this will happen by itself though.


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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:57 am 
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Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I think it may install the notion that women should sit below men, somehow inferior. There is no reason why a women could not compete with men. The reason they don't is that not enough want to take karting to a serious level.

Exactly my first thought when reading the OP.

Yep, that's seconded.


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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:01 am 
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To me it's strange why there are so few women interested in racing, when they are in any other sport.


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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:37 am 
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Some people can't seem to accept that there are some things women, in general, aren't really that bothered about. If I spoke 99% of the women I know, about F1, most would just say, "er... oh right, is that Hamilton bloke still winning."

A women's only series is a stupid idea. Who is going to take part in or watch that? Basically it would just be a bunch of women who can't even get into European F3. It would be like having a match between the Dog and Duck vs. The Greasy Spoon, at half time in the World Cup final between Spain and Brazil. Even the semi-reputable women aren't going to take part. People like Patrick and Simona aren't going to take part in some Micky Mouse racing formula when they can earn millions just from being the only woman in Nascar or Indy.

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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:10 am 
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mcdo wrote:
There's always a negative response to having a women's-only series. But nobody has ever been able to suggest any other way to create female role models and get more young girls interested in motor racing

There aren't enough girls getting involved in karting. Well how does one fix that problem?

F1 shouldn't ever be closed off to females though. There are enough men in motorsports. A men-only series would not be warranted


How do we fix the fact that their aren't enough girls getting involved in Karting? How do we fix it? Maybe Testosterone injections from the age of 7? I don't know. How do we get more boys involved in netball or ballet dancing? How do we get more women involved in high rise construction work, welding, bricklaying or Lorry driving and more men involved in Hairdressing, Fashion or Nursing ?

Why. in general, do men like to watch sport and women soap operas? Why do men like movies like The Expendables & women like Beaches? Because we're two different sexes with different chemical compositions which lead us to enjoy different pastimes, different occupations, prioritise things differently, enjoy different discussion topics, have different emotional reactions to stimuli etc etc.

As far as I know, a female has the same opportunity as a male to get into F1 if they're good enough and have the backing and, like a male, thats all they deserve. Maybe the lack of female participation in motorsport is just because,generally speaking, they're just not interested in the bloody sport.

There is not one woman in my life who has even the slightest interest in motor sport and when I've asked why it's been the same answer. "It's boring. They just drive around in circles for 2 hrs". I've never in my life heard a woman use the lack of female participation as an excuse as to why they don't like motorsport. Not once.

If there's ever to be a women only F1 then fine, not a problem. Then the current series should be men only.

You can't have everything.

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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:03 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
There's always a negative response to having a women's-only series. But nobody has ever been able to suggest any other way to create female role models and get more young girls interested in motor racing

There aren't enough girls getting involved in karting. Well how does one fix that problem?

F1 shouldn't ever be closed off to females though. There are enough men in motorsports. A men-only series would not be warranted


How do we fix the fact that their aren't enough girls getting involved in Karting? How do we fix it? Maybe Testosterone injections from the age of 7? I don't know. How do we get more boys involved in netball or ballet dancing? How do we get more women involved in high rise construction work, welding, bricklaying or Lorry driving and more men involved in Hairdressing, Fashion or Nursing ?

Why. in general, do men like to watch sport and women soap operas? Why do men like movies like The Expendables & women like Beaches? Because we're two different sexes with different chemical compositions which lead us to enjoy different pastimes, different occupations, prioritise things differently, enjoy different discussion topics, have different emotional reactions to stimuli etc etc.

As far as I know, a female has the same opportunity as a male to get into F1 if they're good enough and have the backing and, like a male, thats all they deserve. Maybe the lack of female participation in motorsport is just because,generally speaking, they're just not interested in the bloody sport.

There is not one woman in my life who has even the slightest interest in motor sport and when I've asked why it's been the same answer. "It's boring. They just drive around in circles for 2 hrs". I've never in my life heard a woman use the lack of female participation as an excuse as to why they don't like motorsport. Not once.

If there's ever to be a women only F1 then fine, not a problem. Then the current series should be men only.

You can't have everything.


Brilliant post. :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:59 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
There's always a negative response to having a women's-only series. But nobody has ever been able to suggest any other way to create female role models and get more young girls interested in motor racing

There aren't enough girls getting involved in karting. Well how does one fix that problem?

F1 shouldn't ever be closed off to females though. There are enough men in motorsports. A men-only series would not be warranted


How do we fix the fact that their aren't enough girls getting involved in Karting? How do we fix it? Maybe Testosterone injections from the age of 7? I don't know. How do we get more boys involved in netball or ballet dancing? How do we get more women involved in high rise construction work, welding, bricklaying or Lorry driving and more men involved in Hairdressing, Fashion or Nursing ?

Why. in general, do men like to watch sport and women soap operas? Why do men like movies like The Expendables & women like Beaches? Because we're two different sexes with different chemical compositions which lead us to enjoy different pastimes, different occupations, prioritise things differently, enjoy different discussion topics, have different emotional reactions to stimuli etc etc.

As far as I know, a female has the same opportunity as a male to get into F1 if they're good enough and have the backing and, like a male, thats all they deserve. Maybe the lack of female participation in motorsport is just because,generally speaking, they're just not interested in the bloody sport.

There is not one woman in my life who has even the slightest interest in motor sport and when I've asked why it's been the same answer. "It's boring. They just drive around in circles for 2 hrs". I've never in my life heard a woman use the lack of female participation as an excuse as to why they don't like motorsport. Not once.

If there's ever to be a women only F1 then fine, not a problem. Then the current series should be men only.

You can't have everything.

Ha wow! Sorry grandad but your post is chock full of sweeping out of date generalisations. Soaps are for girls and sports are for boys :lol: Good god I didn't think people thought like this anymore. How 1950s of you

Is rugby more feminine then F1? Or MMA? Or boxing? Plenty of women interested in and competing in those sports. They have role models. Something non-existent in motorsport

And as it is a topic that does repeatedly rear its head as a problem area, whether you like it or not. Maybe something new should be tried to tackle it. Because leaving things as they are just doesn't attract more female competitors

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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:02 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
Some people can't seem to accept that there are some things women, in general, aren't really that bothered about. If I spoke 99% of the women I know, about F1, most would just say, "er... oh right, is that Hamilton bloke still winning."

A women's only series is a stupid idea. Who is going to take part in or watch that? Basically it would just be a bunch of women who can't even get into European F3. It would be like having a match between the Dog and Duck vs. The Greasy Spoon, at half time in the World Cup final between Spain and Brazil. Even the semi-reputable women aren't going to take part. People like Patrick and Simona aren't going to take part in some Micky Mouse racing formula when they can earn millions just from being the only woman in Nascar or Indy.

Banana Man 99% of men I know feel the same way about F1

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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:05 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
There's always a negative response to having a women's-only series. But nobody has ever been able to suggest any other way to create female role models and get more young girls interested in motor racing

There aren't enough girls getting involved in karting. Well how does one fix that problem?

F1 shouldn't ever be closed off to females though. There are enough men in motorsports. A men-only series would not be warranted


That's actually not true. Loads of young girls go karting. They just fall away from it when they get into their mid teens and have more control over their lives. What that says to me is that fewer teenage girls want to race karts. Why is that a problem?

It frequently rears its head as a problem area by the likes of Susie Wolff - someone whose method of attracting an F1 test drive is not one that should be suggested for young women

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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:21 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Ha wow! Sorry grandad but your post is chock full of sweeping out of date generalisations. Soaps are for girls and sports are for boys :lol: Good god I didn't think people thought like this anymore. How 1950s of you


I think you're wrong here. He's not saying how he feels it should be, he is observing trends and patterns. He is right - girls DO tend to be less interested in motor sports then boys. That isn't a generalisation, it's also not conveying an opinion - it's identifying an observed trend. Everything starts with that. If there are less women interested in general, then less women will pick up racing, and less women will graduate through the ranks up until the higher echelons of motor sports.

Look. I have two girls. I never gave them a doll and said "you're a girl, you should play with this". Instead at one point they just asked me "can I have doll?"
I watch F1. When my oldest daugher was 3 or 4 years old, she sometimes sat with me all cosy and watched a bit with me. A few years later and she isn't in the least bit interested anymore, and you can be sure I have nothing to do with that.

We shouldn't bend ourselves in corners to be politically correct when some things just are what they are. For those who know the Simpsons:
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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:27 pm 
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mds wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Ha wow! Sorry grandad but your post is chock full of sweeping out of date generalisations. Soaps are for girls and sports are for boys :lol: Good god I didn't think people thought like this anymore. How 1950s of you


I think you're wrong here. He's not saying how he feels it should be, he is observing trends and patterns. He is right - girls DO tend to be less interested in motor sports then boys. That isn't a generalisation, it's also not conveying an opinion - it's identifying an observed trend. Everything starts with that. If there are less women interested in general, then less women will pick up racing, and less women will graduate through the ranks up until the higher echelons of motor sports.

Look. I have two girls. I never gave them a doll and said "you're a girl, you should play with this". Instead at one point they just asked me "can I have doll?"
I watch F1. When my oldest daugher was 3 or 4 years old, she sometimes sat with me all cosy and watched a bit with me. A few years later and she isn't in the least bit interested anymore, and you can be sure I have nothing to do with that.

We shouldn't bend ourselves in corners to be politically correct when some things just are what they are. For those who know the Simpsons:
Image

Source: http://www.dorkly.com/post/76997/its-just-the-northern-lights-mother

Your post I'll agree with. There is a trend. That much is obvious to all. But to flat out state that one side likes one thing and the other side doesn't is completely wrong. Many sports have many female fans - even the more masculine and aggressive ones. And soaps have many male fans (whether they'll admit it is another story). It's nothing to do with political correctness. Go to a Six Nations match and you'll meet a hell of lot of women

I have met and talked to many ladies at Le Mans every year. The male population is definitely higher but it's no sausage fest

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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:52 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Your post I'll agree with. There is a trend. That much is obvious to all. But to flat out state that one side likes one thing and the other side doesn't is completely wrong.


That's true. But he didn't really do that, did he? Taken from his post:

Why. in general, do men like to watch sport and women soap operas?

and

Maybe the lack of female participation in motorsport is just because,generally speaking, they're just not interested in the bloody sport.

This is fair enough?

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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:40 pm 
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I believe in equality for all or for nothing. If women want to compete in F1, let them do so but in equal terms with men, thats it.


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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:42 pm 
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The way I see it, there is men's and women's basketball; men's and women's tennis; men's and women's football; men's and women's track and field, etc. Men generally compete against men and women generally compete against women. So a women's racing series seems okay to me. I would not do it as a support race though. Let it be its own thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:27 pm 
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Personally, I don't feel this would make any sense for the simple reason there aren't enough female drivers out there to honestly fill a complete field of teams and it would be a cakewalk for top 1-3 drivers that are close enough in skill level to actually compete with the boys in F1. There exist several lower tier series in which drivers (of any sex) can participate and showcase their ability and the simple fact is that there are an extreme few females who can do just well enough hold up the rear with the lesser male drivers in those series. So if they can't do well consistently there, does that merit a Top-Tier series just to showcase a specific gender, when the money required to create such a series could be better invested in better, more talented drivers who never get a shot simply because there simply aren't enough seats in the top 2 international open-wheel series?

And in reference to women's sports… There are very few (can only come up with one ATM) where I can genuinely watch and am utterly impressed with the skill level to the point it's obvious a few of the women can take it to the men and possibly whip up on the boys. Tennis is one such sport. Basketball… Uhm, just no. Running towards the basket to get within your desired range and tossing the ball up is an atrocity to the sport and the NBA has evolved tot he point it's difficult for me to watch a game these days for the same reasons. Kids don't stay in college long enough to develop a complete skills set and the players have devolved into becoming wusses of epic proportions to the point you RARELY see a big man back a defender down towards the basket and either score with authority or use the move to set up a teammate. Quite literally Men's basketball has devolved into a more refined version of the women's game with better skilled athlete's.

I say keep F1 the way it is and WHEN a female driver displays she has the skills and ability to go toe to toe with the boys she will be given the opportunity. Right now there are but 2 female drivers that could possibly give the boys a decent battle and neither of them have been given an honest shot, and it's not because of their gender. Quite simply, there are a bunch of better drivers that happen to be male but it all comes down to numbers. For every professional female driver there have to be 5-10K male drivers so those odds make it extremely difficult for one of those females to end up being the gem driver top race teams look for. The numbers are so incredibly stacked against them it's almost ridiculous.

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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:54 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Personally, I don't feel this would make any sense for the simple reason there aren't enough female drivers out there to honestly fill a complete field of teams and it would be a cakewalk for top 1-3 drivers that are close enough in skill level to actually compete with the boys in F1. There exist several lower tier series in which drivers (of any sex) can participate and showcase their ability and the simple fact is that there are an extreme few females who can do just well enough hold up the rear with the lesser male drivers in those series. So if they can't do well consistently there, does that merit a Top-Tier series just to showcase a specific gender, when the money required to create such a series could be better invested in better, more talented drivers who never get a shot simply because there simply aren't enough seats in the top 2 international open-wheel series?

And in reference to women's sports… There are very few (can only come up with one ATM) where I can genuinely watch and am utterly impressed with the skill level to the point it's obvious a few of the women can take it to the men and possibly whip up on the boys. Tennis is one such sport. Basketball… Uhm, just no. Running towards the basket to get within your desired range and tossing the ball up is an atrocity to the sport and the NBA has evolved tot he point it's difficult for me to watch a game these days for the same reasons. Kids don't stay in college long enough to develop a complete skills set and the players have devolved into becoming wusses of epic proportions to the point you RARELY see a big man back a defender down towards the basket and either score with authority or use the move to set up a teammate. Quite literally Men's basketball has devolved into a more refined version of the women's game with better skilled athlete's.

I say keep F1 the way it is and WHEN a female driver displays she has the skills and ability to go toe to toe with the boys she will be given the opportunity. Right now there are but 2 female drivers that could possibly give the boys a decent battle and neither of them have been given an honest shot, and it's not because of their gender. Quite simply, there are a bunch of better drivers that happen to be male but it all comes down to numbers. For every professional female driver there have to be 5-10K male drivers so those odds make it extremely difficult for one of those females to end up being the gem driver top race teams look for. The numbers are so incredibly stacked against them it's almost ridiculous.

The reason the low-post game has gone away is because the illegal defense rule has been removed. You can now double team a big man before he even gets the ball. Players in the NBA today have more skill and, in particular, shoot with more range than ever before. Big guys can now dribble, pass and shoot, while back in the day they simply used their size and strength as an advantage. The game is now dominated by skill, not size. The physicality has been taken down a notch (same thing has happened in the NFL) but the NBA is nothing like women's basketball. It is played well above the rim and the athleticism is on a totally different level. And this is coming from someone with deeply rose tinted glasses when looking at the old days of the 80s and 90s and the Michael Jordan era.


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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:58 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Ruste13 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I think it may install the notion that women should sit below men, somehow inferior. There is no reason why a women could not compete with men. The reason they don't is that not enough want to take karting to a serious level.


Why are there any mens and womens sports then? Why dont we just have sports. I dont agree with this.



Because in most sports men and women can't compete on a parity due to a mans superior physicality. F1 is one of the few sports where women can compete with men on an even footing. Lets embrace that.


Yes, indeed. The problem is as Blag Flag said is that once you split the sport there will be no bringing it back to one sport. On the other hand, a women's F1 would create interest and generate opportunities. It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation.

Mind you, at one time nobody ever thought there would be a black F1 driver, and that seems to have resolved itself. I guess the answer is if there comes along a woman who's good enough then she should be given the chance. You have to remember the driver pool is probably massively populated by men over women, and only 20 or so drivers can drive in F1 at any one time, so if 1% of the driver pool is female, well you can do the maths!

A female driver would be a massive marketing opportunity for the sport though, but, Bernie was right about one thing. He said, he didn't want a black driver unless he was going to be really good. And he got a triple WDC. I think if a woman is pushed forward because she's a woman rather than because she's good, then it could do more harm than good.

And please let's not bring this thread back to the women are weak and can't drive F1 cars yet again. Alonso wasn't even sweating when he got out of the car, and these are supposed to be proper F1 cars.

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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:04 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
There's always a negative response to having a women's-only series. But nobody has ever been able to suggest any other way to create female role models and get more young girls interested in motor racing

There aren't enough girls getting involved in karting. Well how does one fix that problem?

F1 shouldn't ever be closed off to females though. There are enough men in motorsports. A men-only series would not be warranted


How do we fix the fact that their aren't enough girls getting involved in Karting? How do we fix it? Maybe Testosterone injections from the age of 7? I don't know. How do we get more boys involved in netball or ballet dancing? How do we get more women involved in high rise construction work, welding, bricklaying or Lorry driving and more men involved in Hairdressing, Fashion or Nursing ?

Why. in general, do men like to watch sport and women soap operas? Why do men like movies like The Expendables & women like Beaches? Because we're two different sexes with different chemical compositions which lead us to enjoy different pastimes, different occupations, prioritise things differently, enjoy different discussion topics, have different emotional reactions to stimuli etc etc.

As far as I know, a female has the same opportunity as a male to get into F1 if they're good enough and have the backing and, like a male, thats all they deserve. Maybe the lack of female participation in motorsport is just because,generally speaking, they're just not interested in the bloody sport.

There is not one woman in my life who has even the slightest interest in motor sport and when I've asked why it's been the same answer. "It's boring. They just drive around in circles for 2 hrs". I've never in my life heard a woman use the lack of female participation as an excuse as to why they don't like motorsport. Not once.

If there's ever to be a women only F1 then fine, not a problem. Then the current series should be men only.

You can't have everything.

Ha wow! Sorry grandad but your post is chock full of sweeping out of date generalisations. Soaps are for girls and sports are for boys :lol: Good god I didn't think people thought like this anymore. How 1950s of you

Is rugby more feminine then F1? Or MMA? Or boxing? Plenty of women interested in and competing in those sports. They have role models. Something non-existent in motorsport

And as it is a topic that does repeatedly rear its head as a problem area, whether you like it or not. Maybe something new should be tried to tackle it. Because leaving things as they are just doesn't attract more female competitors


Sorry, just got back from checking my privilege. FYI, it's still there apparently.

You see, this is where you end up these days if you try to rely on something so archaic and outdated as Biology to support your argument. You get attacked personally and accused of having outdated views on life. I was born in the 1970's just to set the record straight.

I have a lot of problems in life I've been told and counted among those many problems I seem to be afflicted with, are that I despise political correctness with a passion and, shock horror, I still believe men and women are different.

Without going too far into biology 101, men and women are biologically different and no amount of name calling is going to change that. We're composed of different chemicals. Our brains are wired differently. We interact with our children differently. We play two different roles in every aspect of our lives. That's not a view or opinion, that's cold, hard facts and part of the upshot of those cold, hard facts is, generally speaking, we like different things.

That's why if you go to a children's dance studio, an overwhelming majority of students will be girls whereas, if you go to a junior football training session, an overwhelming majority of participants will be boys, and that's why if you go to a seniors woodworking workshop, most people there will be men, as opposed to a quilting workshop where most attendees will be women.

In general, we like different things and this isn't by choice, it's simply part of the evolutionary process.

Now, for motor racing. Personally, I don't care if the driver's a male or a female. I honestly couldn't care less. The driver can be a transgender midget Aboriginal Scientologist with a wooden leg and turrets for all I care. As long as that the driver got there on merit, then good luck to them. There is not one reason why a female, if she's good enough and can get the backing, cannot get into F1 today. We've had female F1 drivers before and no doubt it'll happen again. The path to F1 is exactly the same no matter what's between your legs and to argue that the reason that women are not interested in motor sport is due to the lack of female participants is to ignore the facts. Generally speaking, a vast majority of women do not have the passion for motor racing that would compel them to want to participate in the sport. The same applies to Rugby, MMA or boxing. A vastly overwhelming majority of participants and viewers are male.

The path is already there for any female who wants to get into motorsport and try to get to the top. The problem is, there are relatively few females interested in motorsport and of those that are, there are fewer who want to, or have the opportunity to participate in it and of those that do, there are fewer still that have the ability or focus to get to the top. The lack of females in motorsport is not due to lack of female participation, it's simply due to lack of interest and that lack of interest, generally speaking, stems simply from a biological aspect nothing more.

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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:10 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
The way I see it, there is men's and women's basketball; men's and women's tennis; men's and women's football; men's and women's track and field, etc. Men generally compete against men and women generally compete against women. So a women's racing series seems okay to me. I would not do it as a support race though. Let it be its own thing.

But F1 and motorracing are very expensive and cannot be compared to football, basketball and all these kinds of "popular" cheap sports.


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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:32 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
The way I see it, there is men's and women's basketball; men's and women's tennis; men's and women's football; men's and women's track and field, etc. Men generally compete against men and women generally compete against women. So a women's racing series seems okay to me. I would not do it as a support race though. Let it be its own thing.

But F1 and motorracing are very expensive and cannot be compared to football, basketball and all these kinds of "popular" cheap sports.

The cost will take care of itself. The teams in the women's series will only spend an amount of money that makes sense based on the revenue that the sport generates. It's not likely you'll see huge 9 figure budgets like you have in F1 (unless the series is immensely popular). Lebron James gets paid more money than all of the WNBA players combined. The reason is simple. The NBA generates a lot more revenue.


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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:47 pm 
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Could anyone name 10 women who could take part in this series? Or even five?

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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:13 pm 
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I respect your opinion but today's best teams would get creamed by previous generation teams.

Illegal defense is one rules change I'll never understand and it has led to a shift in scoring prowess but the lack of collegiate experience with all these one and done'ers had led to an influx of players who've not developed all facets of their game outside scoring so you have weaker defenses out there so it allows guys to shoot all day long. It might appear as though they are more skilled due to the constant scoring but look at the numbers and you will see a dramatic difference in percentages. Today teams score 115+ points on the regular but a bulk of that is had by way of 3's but while they make a bunch of them, they miss a whole lot more than they used to. That to me is a lesser product overall. Today there are maybe 5 players in the NBA today that you could give the ball to and trust they'll drain a 3 without worrying about it. In the 90's there were a ton of guys. Today's defense is pathetic and guys like Kemp, Drexler, Barkley, Olajuwon, Pippen, Jordan, Rodman, Mutombo, Hill, Penny, Payton, Wilkins, Robinson, Mourning, Johnson, Malone, Shaq, Iverson, would all have field days against any team today. I've seen every current team, live and in person, and I got to see every single one of those teams in the 90's and it's clear as day the difference in overall skill and today's players look to pop and shoot rather than drive to the hoop. And when I say I got to see them back then and today, I don't mean in the stands, I mean I had season tickets, but because I worked on the HEAT's advertising & design, I had floor seats right behind the bench and had to walk around to take action shots of players to use for layouts.

This is about F1 so I'll leave it there but today's NBA players having more skill is also not accurate. There are a few who's skill set and ability are a notch above the rest, but because the rest lack in overall skill, it allows the better players to look like they're other worldly. I mean all the comparisons of Lebron to MJ… Do you think Lebron has a serious chance against MJ? It would be total destruction and the trash MJ would talk while doing it might cause Lebron to break down in tears. LOL Sheeeoooooot, Pippen would beat him 1 on 1. He'd call glass all day long on him and would strip him tons of times. MJ is the greatest overall player of all time to date, but I have yet to see a better defender than Pippen. Largest hands you'll ever see in person and when he shakes your hand and yours completely disappears inside his… Utterly impressive. LOL

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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:51 pm 
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^^^^
Okay, I don't want this to get out of hand but I disagree with you strongly on a lot of what you've said. Three point shooting today is VASTLY superior to what it was in the 90s in every way. The percentages are much higher today and, again, the range that people shoot with is on a different level altogether. Basically you now need to guard players from 5-10 feet behind the line. Back in the day you could sag back inside of the arc and most teams only had 2-3 guys who would even take threes (and only if they were wide open with their toes on the line).

The reason there is more perimeter shooting is because, again, the illegal defense rule was removed. You used to have to guard Michael Jordan with one guy or double team him. Now you can camp help defenders in the lane for when a star player beats his man off the dribble. In some ways it is harder to score.

I think you're referring to the early 00s when you talk about low-quality basketball. There was a window of time where you had high school kids coming into the NBA and they were totally unprepared and didn't have a fleshed out game yet. Many of them washed out and the league really suffered in terms of the overall level of play. The one and done rule actually helped teams to properly scout talent (it's hard to assess high school players because of the poor competition) and it at least gave young players a year in college before entering the league.

In terms of skill, basketball is at an all time high. Players are better ball handlers, shooters and passers than ever before. You used to have a point guard be the player in charge of handling and distributing the ball but now the game is less specialized and players at all positions possess the skill to do that. Jordan and Lebron are just two players (and yes Jordan had more skill than Lebron) but when you look at players like Steph Curry, Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant, James Harden, Anthony Davis, etc.; you are seeing players with a higher skill level than anyone at their position from back in the day.

Today's offensive basketball is actually really impressive (from the best teams at least). The whole "pace and space" philosophy that you see from teams like Golden State and San Antonio is really amazing to watch and far more sophisticated than the pick and roll/isolation heavy offenses from the 90s.

My gripe with the modern league is that it is too top-heavy. I don't like having 3-4 super teams and no one else really having a prayer. I also hate the way teams have taken to resting their stars so often. A lot of it comes down to the media and the way they have made winning the championship the only thing that earns you any respect. It's why Lebron and KD try to be on super teams and it's also why teams are resting their stars during the regular season.


Last edited by sandman1347 on Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:59 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
There's always a negative response to having a women's-only series. But nobody has ever been able to suggest any other way to create female role models and get more young girls interested in motor racing

There aren't enough girls getting involved in karting. Well how does one fix that problem?

F1 shouldn't ever be closed off to females though. There are enough men in motorsports. A men-only series would not be warranted


How do we fix the fact that their aren't enough girls getting involved in Karting? How do we fix it? Maybe Testosterone injections from the age of 7? I don't know. How do we get more boys involved in netball or ballet dancing? How do we get more women involved in high rise construction work, welding, bricklaying or Lorry driving and more men involved in Hairdressing, Fashion or Nursing ?

Why. in general, do men like to watch sport and women soap operas? Why do men like movies like The Expendables & women like Beaches? Because we're two different sexes with different chemical compositions which lead us to enjoy different pastimes, different occupations, prioritise things differently, enjoy different discussion topics, have different emotional reactions to stimuli etc etc.

As far as I know, a female has the same opportunity as a male to get into F1 if they're good enough and have the backing and, like a male, thats all they deserve. Maybe the lack of female participation in motorsport is just because,generally speaking, they're just not interested in the bloody sport.

There is not one woman in my life who has even the slightest interest in motor sport and when I've asked why it's been the same answer. "It's boring. They just drive around in circles for 2 hrs". I've never in my life heard a woman use the lack of female participation as an excuse as to why they don't like motorsport. Not once.

If there's ever to be a women only F1 then fine, not a problem. Then the current series should be men only.

You can't have everything.

Ha wow! Sorry grandad but your post is chock full of sweeping out of date generalisations. Soaps are for girls and sports are for boys :lol: Good god I didn't think people thought like this anymore. How 1950s of you

Is rugby more feminine then F1? Or MMA? Or boxing? Plenty of women interested in and competing in those sports. They have role models. Something non-existent in motorsport

And as it is a topic that does repeatedly rear its head as a problem area, whether you like it or not. Maybe something new should be tried to tackle it. Because leaving things as they are just doesn't attract more female competitors

Sorry but my experience has been exactly the same, but to elaborate on it further, even my brother and my kids say racing it's boring, yet my kids all ride Karts and love to duel on track which is a bit of a head scratcher.

My sister who loves to go fast also says the same thing and her husband brought home a darned slingshot 2 weeks ago and she looked for every excuse to drive the thing! Gotta go get milk and eggs!… Gotta go pick up my son's girlfriend!
Too funny. LOL

I can understand it because I have several friends who LOVE golf but for me it's like watching someone watch paint dry and since it was deemed not a sport (I know some will argue against this) via a census around 10 years ago where they checked every "Sport" against a specific set of criteria that would either deem it a sport or something else and Golf didn't quite meet the qualifications for sport and I believe it fell into the category of a skills competition due to it's lack of physicality outside having to walk the entire course. It was in the same category as Billiards and since the initial census it has been re-evaluated and the findings are much the same.

http://www.thesportster.com/entertainme ... t-a-sport/

#1 is a good point but #5 coupled with the picture is a real gem! LOL

That BIB however, has more to do with parents because we are conditioned to think (whether we like it or not) that certain things are for boys and others for girls and vast majority of time we as parents immediately think the worst when our kids show interest in certain things. We don't mean to but our subconscious is such that we have immediate reactions to some things and most people never give certain things a second thought. I'm lucky in that my brain can't leave certain things alone and subconsciously some of the things I say or think come back into my forefront of thought and often I have a change of heart and especially with my kids I immediately let them know that perhaps I was a bit too rash in what I said and apologize and explain to them that I should have been more supportive and open-minded and that it's ok for them to try or do whatever it is I was initially not open to. Sometimes they come to me and tell me I was right and I have no issues in telling them they were right. My daughter is a prime example of a kid you have to protect from themselves at times because at 8 she thinks she can do everything her much bigger 12-year old brother can do and he's almost twice her size and I have to be stern with her and she just wont understand. And sometimes, if she presses the issue enough and I feel she can try it without getting too hurt I let her and then she comes crying because she ended up getting hurt like I said she would. And while she just gets the satisfaction of being able to do whatever is is she wanted to do to begin with, as a parent I can't always allow it because she'll kill herself. My boy's also want to try wild things and I have to tell them no just as much as I do with her, as well as the green light even though I know they will get hurt just to show them that they shouldn't try every little crazy idea they conjure up in their heads.

Girls are for the most part physically different from men, just as a supremely fit 25 year old man is different from a supremely fit 60 year old man. One of them is simply able to do certain things to a greater extreme than the other. Women have evolved to do many things men can't do as well and the same is true the other way around. And although there are exceptions, they are rare. In sport, if you put a woman up against a man doing the same thing 99.9% of the time the woman would get creamed. Now driving however is a bit different in that the most difficult physical requirement for a woman is to be in supreme shape and be fit enough to be able to become accustomed to the forces placed on their body and hold up their heads while driving a car on the limit. This is where I feel a really superb female driver would have zero issues in competing with the boys. Danica Patrick is a woman who has been competing with the boys for a VERY long time and though she's done respectably well, is simply not on the same level with the top guys. She's certainly very talented and has had her moments, but for the most part she falls into the same category WITH everyone else just behind the top drivers. I feel that doesn't merit her holding a seat for as long as she has and I find her longevity has much more to do with her commercial appeal than it does her actual ability. There are guys who've done better than she has and have lost their seats, if that says anything about the climate for female drivers and how even fewer there are out there that warrant their own series.

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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:12 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
The way I see it, there is men's and women's basketball; men's and women's tennis; men's and women's football; men's and women's track and field, etc. Men generally compete against men and women generally compete against women. So a women's racing series seems okay to me. I would not do it as a support race though. Let it be its own thing.

But F1 and motorracing are very expensive and cannot be compared to football, basketball and all these kinds of "popular" cheap sports.

The cost will take care of itself. The teams in the women's series will only spend an amount of money that makes sense based on the revenue that the sport generates. It's not likely you'll see huge 9 figure budgets like you have in F1 (unless the series is immensely popular). Lebron James gets paid more money than all of the WNBA players combined. The reason is simple. The NBA generates a lot more revenue.

But women basketball is still very cheap compared to a motorsports series, there have to be many interests and sponsorship to make it viable.
Its not about their salaries but about the costs of the whole series
Mind you a basic racing form that is karting is already very expensive, nevermind about some intermediate open wheeler series.


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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:23 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
^^^^
Okay, I don't want this to get out of hand but I disagree with you strongly on a lot of what you've said. Three point shooting today is VASTLY superior to what it was in the 90s in every way. The percentages are much higher today and, again, the range that people shoot with is on a different level altogether. Basically you now need to guard players from 5-10 feet behind the line. Back in the day you could sag back inside of the arc and most teams only had 2-3 guys who would even take threes (and only if they were wide open with their toes on the line).

The reason there is more perimeter shooting is because, again, the illegal defense rule was removed. You used to have to guard Michael Jordan with one guy or double team him. Now you can camp help defenders in the lane for when a star player beats his man off the dribble. In some ways it is harder to score.

I think you're referring to the early 00s when you talk about low-quality basketball. There was a window of time where you had high school kids coming into the NBA and they were totally unprepared and didn't have a fleshed out game yet. Many of them washed out and the league really suffered in terms of the overall level of play. The one and done rule actually helped teams to properly scout talent (it's hard to assess high school players because of the poor competition) and it at least gave young players a year in college before entering the league.

In terms of skill, basketball is at an all time high. Players are better ball handlers, shooters and passers than ever before. You used to have a point guard be the player in charge of handling and distributing the ball but now the game is less specialized and players at all positions possess the skill to do that. Jordan and Lebron are just two players (and yes Jordan had more skill than Lebron) but when you look at players like Steph Curry, Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant, James Harden, Anthony Davis, etc.; you are seeing players with a higher skill level than anyone at their position from back in the day.

Today's offensive basketball is actually really impressive (from the best teams at least). The whole "pace and space" philosophy that you see from teams like Golden State and San Antonio is really amazing to watch and far more sophisticated than the pick and roll/isolation heavy offenses from the 90s.

My gripe with the modern league is that it is too top-heavy. I don't like having 3-4 super teams and no one else really having a prayer. I also hate the way teams have taken to resting their stars so often. A lot of it comes down to the media and the way they have made winning the championship the only thing that earns you any respect. It's why Lebron and KD try to be on super teams and it's also why teams are resting their stars during the regular season.

You just made my point. WHY is it that there are just a handful of teams in the mix today? I'll tell you… They have most of the top talent on their rosters. Back int he day their were position players BECAUSE players, although well rounded had specialty areas of the game in which they worked on most to make them an asset to their teams in unique ways. There's a famous saying that goes… Practitioner of all, Expert in NONE. THAT is the reality of the NBA today but you really need to take a step back and really analyze the game play and watch for position players and how players adjust their game on the fly. And while today it is top heavy, go back to the 90's and go through the list of teams and L@@K through the rosters and it's quite apparent how many HOF rosters littered the NBA. You had complete players throughout the league that could do it all well and played both ways, but many had an innate ability in certain facets of the game that made them standouts.

If today's players and play are as superior to those of yesteryear WHY is it the league it top heavy with just 4-5 teams with a shot at the championship?

In the 90's the following teams had HOF rosters in 3 or more seasons and some for most of the decade…

Knicks
Bulls
Pistons
Lakers
Pacers
Magic
Hornets
Hawks
Sonics
Trailblazers
Suns
Spurs
Jazz
Rockets
Kings


Today you have…
Cavs
Spurs
Warriors (recently)
Thunder
Rockets
HEAT (had 2 stints in mid 2000's and recently with Lebron, Wayde & Bosh, but it was a 4 man show with another player holding up the rear year to year)

Who else? If you really believe today's NBA features more skilled players then surely the league should be littered with HOF rosters. The faxct is they're not, so it isn't. Players have become what used to be referred to as Park Shooters and that's the bottom line. Defenses are near non-existent and big guys have been preferring to shoot from under their own basket so as to shoot as non-contested as possible because it increases their chances of making a bucket. I watched the Warriors vs the Cavs in one of the games in the last finals and I had to change the channel. There was a period of about 12 minutes where all either team did was stop and shoot 3-pointers from way outside the arc and about 80% of them missed. It was the worst display of "professional" play I've ever seen in the finals of what is supposed to be the very finest of basketball leagues in the entire world. I could go to the local fair and watch people shoot for prizes and see the same percentage of shots drop.

Quite appalling.

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ALONSO :: BUTTON :: PEREZ :: RICCIARDO :: GROSJEAN :: KVYAT :: HULKENBERG :: MALDONADO
THE REST… THERE ARE FAR BETTER DRIVERS THAT SHOULD BE IN FORMULA 1


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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:34 pm 
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^^^
The league isn't top heavy because there is less talent in it. It's top heavy because the stars are choosing to join forces on the same team (like in the major European soccer leagues). Nowadays we have teams with as many as 4 all stars on the roster. In the 90s, 2 all stars would be a lot.

Look I'm a die-hard 90s hoops fan but I just think some people are unreasonably negative about the modern league (ahem Charles Barkley).


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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:46 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
^^^
The league isn't top heavy because there is less talent in it. It's top heavy because the stars are choosing to join forces on the same team (like in the major European soccer leagues). Nowadays we have teams with as many as 4 all stars on the roster. In the 90s, 2 all stars would be a lot.

Look I'm a die-hard 90s hoops fan but I just think some people are unreasonably negative about the modern league (ahem Charles Barkley).


IMO the Bosman ruling is a wonderful thing for labor rights, but disastrous for the sport. It's not the only reason why talent is concentrated in only a few clubs, but it's one of the major ones. You used to have clubs with a starting lineup consisting mostly of nationals plus three foreigners, usually in the offense, but now you have foreigners across all positions in the team, while the nationals are usually bench players.

Arrigo Sacchi lamented that Internazionale won the Champions League without a single Italian player among their starters in the final, and the only player with Italian citizenship was in the bench and wasn't even an ethnic Italian. He was criticized for that, but, regardless of his intent when saying it out loud, he raised a valid point. Not too long after, Inter became one of the weaker sides in Italy among traditional clubs.

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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:39 pm 
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Pole2Win wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
^^^
The league isn't top heavy because there is less talent in it. It's top heavy because the stars are choosing to join forces on the same team (like in the major European soccer leagues). Nowadays we have teams with as many as 4 all stars on the roster. In the 90s, 2 all stars would be a lot.

Look I'm a die-hard 90s hoops fan but I just think some people are unreasonably negative about the modern league (ahem Charles Barkley).


IMO the Bosman ruling is a wonderful thing for labor rights, but disastrous for the sport. It's not the only reason why talent is concentrated in only a few clubs, but it's one of the major ones. You used to have clubs with a starting lineup consisting mostly of nationals plus three foreigners, usually in the offense, but now you have foreigners across all positions in the team, while the nationals are usually bench players.

Arrigo Sacchi lamented that Internazionale won the Champions League without a single Italian player among their starters in the final, and the only player with Italian citizenship was in the bench and wasn't even an ethnic Italian. He was criticized for that, but, regardless of his intent when saying it out loud, he raised a valid point. Not too long after, Inter became one of the weaker sides in Italy among traditional clubs.


Off topic here, but Inter having large numbers of non-Italian players is nothing new.
Their name is 'International' after all, and they were founded after some members of AC Milan split away due to Milan not wanting to sign foreign players.
Since being set up, Inter have always been a home to many non-Italian players - that's who Inter are.


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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:53 pm 
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Lentulus wrote:
Off topic here, but Inter having large numbers of non-Italian players is nothing new.
Their name is 'International' after all, and they were founded after some members of AC Milan split away due to Milan not wanting to sign foreign players.
Since being set up, Inter have always been a home to many non-Italian players - that's who Inter are.


That's true but before the Bosman ruling even Inter was restricted.

Ironically, when the Serie A began to open itself a bit more, and even well into the post-Bosman period, it was Milan who benefitted. Inter spent a long time without winning a scudetto, and their first one in more than 15 years was that title Juventus was stripped of due to the Calciopoli scandal. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Women's F1 series
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:35 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
There's always a negative response to having a women's-only series. But nobody has ever been able to suggest any other way to create female role models and get more young girls interested in motor racing

There aren't enough girls getting involved in karting. Well how does one fix that problem?

F1 shouldn't ever be closed off to females though. There are enough men in motorsports. A men-only series would not be warranted


How do we fix the fact that their aren't enough girls getting involved in Karting? How do we fix it? Maybe Testosterone injections from the age of 7? I don't know. How do we get more boys involved in netball or ballet dancing? How do we get more women involved in high rise construction work, welding, bricklaying or Lorry driving and more men involved in Hairdressing, Fashion or Nursing ?

Why. in general, do men like to watch sport and women soap operas? Why do men like movies like The Expendables & women like Beaches? Because we're two different sexes with different chemical compositions which lead us to enjoy different pastimes, different occupations, prioritise things differently, enjoy different discussion topics, have different emotional reactions to stimuli etc etc.

As far as I know, a female has the same opportunity as a male to get into F1 if they're good enough and have the backing and, like a male, thats all they deserve. Maybe the lack of female participation in motorsport is just because,generally speaking, they're just not interested in the bloody sport.

There is not one woman in my life who has even the slightest interest in motor sport and when I've asked why it's been the same answer. "It's boring. They just drive around in circles for 2 hrs". I've never in my life heard a woman use the lack of female participation as an excuse as to why they don't like motorsport. Not once.

If there's ever to be a women only F1 then fine, not a problem. Then the current series should be men only.

You can't have everything.

Ha wow! Sorry grandad but your post is chock full of sweeping out of date generalisations. Soaps are for girls and sports are for boys :lol: Good god I didn't think people thought like this anymore. How 1950s of you

Is rugby more feminine then F1? Or MMA? Or boxing? Plenty of women interested in and competing in those sports. They have role models. Something non-existent in motorsport

And as it is a topic that does repeatedly rear its head as a problem area, whether you like it or not. Maybe something new should be tried to tackle it. Because leaving things as they are just doesn't attract more female competitors


Sorry, just got back from checking my privilege. FYI, it's still there apparently.

You see, this is where you end up these days if you try to rely on something so archaic and outdated as Biology to support your argument. You get attacked personally and accused of having outdated views on life. I was born in the 1970's just to set the record straight.

I have a lot of problems in life I've been told and counted among those many problems I seem to be afflicted with, are that I despise political correctness with a passion and, shock horror, I still believe men and women are different.

Without going too far into biology 101, men and women are biologically different and no amount of name calling is going to change that. We're composed of different chemicals. Our brains are wired differently. We interact with our children differently. We play two different roles in every aspect of our lives. That's not a view or opinion, that's cold, hard facts and part of the upshot of those cold, hard facts is, generally speaking, we like different things.

That's why if you go to a children's dance studio, an overwhelming majority of students will be girls whereas, if you go to a junior football training session, an overwhelming majority of participants will be boys, and that's why if you go to a seniors woodworking workshop, most people there will be men, as opposed to a quilting workshop where most attendees will be women.

In general, we like different things and this isn't by choice, it's simply part of the evolutionary process.

Now, for motor racing. Personally, I don't care if the driver's a male or a female. I honestly couldn't care less. The driver can be a transgender midget Aboriginal Scientologist with a wooden leg and turrets for all I care. As long as that the driver got there on merit, then good luck to them. There is not one reason why a female, if she's good enough and can get the backing, cannot get into F1 today. We've had female F1 drivers before and no doubt it'll happen again. The path to F1 is exactly the same no matter what's between your legs and to argue that the reason that women are not interested in motor sport is due to the lack of female participants is to ignore the facts. Generally speaking, a vast majority of women do not have the passion for motor racing that would compel them to want to participate in the sport. The same applies to Rugby, MMA or boxing. A vastly overwhelming majority of participants and viewers are male.

The path is already there for any female who wants to get into motorsport and try to get to the top. The problem is, there are relatively few females interested in motorsport and of those that are, there are fewer who want to, or have the opportunity to participate in it and of those that do, there are fewer still that have the ability or focus to get to the top. The lack of females in motorsport is not due to lack of female participation, it's simply due to lack of interest and that lack of interest, generally speaking, stems simply from a biological aspect nothing more.

My argument has absolutely nothing to do with biology, biochemistry, physicality, hormones or anyone's perception of how a female performs in a racing car. I'll leave that up to others to debate. Your last paragraph is literally all I'm talking about

I'm saying that there's merit in creating female role models, building a culture where females can stay interested, can point at a series title that's somewhat realistically achievable. As it stands that is not the case. Leaving things the way they are means it will highly likely forever remain the same. And I don't know why people cling dearly to the idea that things should remain the same

On the topic of rugby, MMA or boxing. Here in Ireland one of the biggest role models of either gender in recent times is Katie Taylor. Even the men look up to her. Young women have seen her go out there and dominate. And the response is that more women are taking up boxing than ever - in some parts of the country female participation in boxing clubs has increased from 5% to 20-25%. This is the kind of influence I'm talking about. And if you're going to claim boxing is more feminine than motorsport then you're flippin' deluded

Motorsport is predominantly a men's club. Leaving things the way they are (which is what will continue to happen - nobody has any plans to change the status quo) means that females will continue to have an infinitesimally small chance at succeeding at the top level. Every time I see a backlash against the suggestion of making a change for the sake of getting more women involved, interested and successful it just screams to me that men want to keep it a men's club. And that's just sad

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