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Will (and should) Kimi get another contract this year?
Yes - Kimi will get his contract renewed, and he deserves it. 13%  13%  [ 10 ]
Yes - Kimi will get his contract renewed, but he doesn't deserve it. 15%  15%  [ 12 ]
No - Kimi will not get his contract renewed, but he deserves to. 6%  6%  [ 5 ]
No - Kimi will not get his contract renewed, and he doesn't deserve to. 65%  65%  [ 51 ]
Total votes : 78
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:07 am 
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Fiki wrote:
I think Ferrari will face the same problem they have every time: which driver has the driving style to suit their cars? It's clear they find it hard to adapt their car to Räikkönen, yet I would be very surprised if Vettel would find the car more challenging if it were adapted to Kimi's needs.


Well, if you are unwilling to adapt your car surely almost any driver would do better than one of the least adaptable?


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:07 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
I think Ferrari will face the same problem they have every time: which driver has the driving style to suit their cars? It's clear they find it hard to adapt their car to Räikkönen, yet I would be very surprised if Vettel would find the car more challenging if it were adapted to Kimi's needs.


Kimi is a smooth driver who likes cars that are "point and shoot". Those kinds of cars aren't very friendly to most drivers.

The 2008 Ferrari for example was the opposite, it was more like a truck that required some manhandling, which benefitted Massa's rough and erratic technique more than Kimi's smoother style. Of course, in situations that required smoothness (like in rain), Massa was nowhere while Kimi fared better although still not ideal.

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 8:24 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
I think Ferrari will face the same problem they have every time: which driver has the driving style to suit their cars? It's clear they find it hard to adapt their car to Räikkönen, yet I would be very surprised if Vettel would find the car more challenging if it were adapted to Kimi's needs.


Well, if you are unwilling to adapt your car surely almost any driver would do better than one of the least adaptable?
I don't necessarily believe Ferrari are unwilling to adapt their car, though it does at times seem as though they're not making a total effort of it. Or is it just that James Allison leaving that leaves Räikkönen up in the air?


Pole2Win wrote:
Fiki wrote:
I think Ferrari will face the same problem they have every time: which driver has the driving style to suit their cars? It's clear they find it hard to adapt their car to Räikkönen, yet I would be very surprised if Vettel would find the car more challenging if it were adapted to Kimi's needs.


Kimi is a smooth driver who likes cars that are "point and shoot". Those kinds of cars aren't very friendly to most drivers.

The 2008 Ferrari for example was the opposite, it was more like a truck that required some manhandling, which benefitted Massa's rough and erratic technique more than Kimi's smoother style. Of course, in situations that required smoothness (like in rain), Massa was nowhere while Kimi fared better although still not ideal.
I think that is correct. I never understood Ferrari's decision to take the car away from Räikkönen's needs, though I have no problem at all with seeing Massa doing well. And 2008's Renault cheating really took Massa's drivers' title away from him, so both drivers did well in what was basically a good car.

Your comment has made me look into driving styles again.

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:13 am 
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Fiki wrote:
I think that is correct. I never understood Ferrari's decision to take the car away from Räikkönen's needs, though I have no problem at all with seeing Massa doing well. And 2008's Renault cheating really took Massa's drivers' title away from him, so both drivers did well in what was basically a good car.

Your comment has made me look into driving styles again.


I admit my methods aren't very scientific but taking bits here and there I found that the design direction of Ferrari that year had an even bigger role than I previously thought. It also helped that I dabbled in sim racing during this time so I could learn some of the basics.

People like to say Kimi is good with oversteering cars. You can't be good with oversteering cars without being smooth. Oversteering cars are more dangerous and difficult to control, and require more precise inputs from the driver.

Kimi in 2008 also had problems with warming up the tires. If the car pushes in corners like a truck, it's hard for smoother inputs to build heat in the tires. This was exacerbated in the rain because wet conditions cool the tires down. This is the main reason why Kimi's performance in Monaco that year was absolutely catastrophic. It was a wet race on a slow track, far from ideal to get heat in the tires.

Meanwhile, I remember someone (I think it may have even been here in PF1) who said Massa effectively bullied the car around the track and couldn't even follow the same lines every lap. It can be easily verified by facts. Massa had a rocky start to his career and found it hard to keep his Sauber on the track in 2002. He also has never been good in the rain, where smooth inputs are of utmost importance. However, the 2008 Ferrari was, like I said, truck-like in its behavior, which meant that Massa could throw it around without concerning himself much with the car's stability. If you drive like this, you can very easily get the tires to optimal temperature in the course of just a few laps, which is what Massa did, and what earned him his poles that year. Unfortunately for him, he could not do the same in the rain, because the wet conditions make it hard for the tires to warm up, and he lacked the finesse to control the car.

It's also necessary to take into account that the Bridgestone tires were quite durable, so Massa didn't have to worry much about degradation, which is usually a problem when you have an aggressive driving style. Kimi could make the Lotus work in 2012 and 2013 partly because he's smooth, so, in combination with the car's natural ability, he could make even the Pirelli tires last long.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:09 am 
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So, a little bit further into the year. How has everyone's opinion on this evolved?

Personally, mine hasn't changed. When the cars are equal, Kimi has looked unable to challenge either Mercedes driver, and that means he is unfortunately not doing a good enough job for the seat. He needs to be able to beat at least Bottas with some regularity for my opinion on that issue to change.

(I've also edited the fourth answer to be more neutral - apparently it doesn't reset the poll to do so)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:16 am 
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I don't think Kimi deserves to get his contract renewed, but at the moment I'm undecided on whether Ferrari will do so or not. On pure performance, he shouldn't get the seat. The only time he's looked like challenging at the front was Monaco, but other than that he's not done much to scare the other front runners. Given what Vettel has done in the sister car, you have to question what Kimi is contributing to the party. Ricciardo has had more podiums than him and the Ferrari is unquestionably the better car.

But at the same time I doubt Ferrari will want to bring someone along to upset the applecart with Vettel. I suspect they will want a support driver for the 2nd seat. Trouble is, while Kimi is very much a team player, his results are definitely putting the WCC at risk, so it depends on how important the Constructors title is to them


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:55 am 
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Zoue wrote:
I don't think Kimi deserves to get his contract renewed, but at the moment I'm undecided on whether Ferrari will do so or not. On pure performance, he shouldn't get the seat. The only time he's looked like challenging at the front was Monaco, but other than that he's not done much to scare the other front runners. Given what Vettel has done in the sister car, you have to question what Kimi is contributing to the party. Ricciardo has had more podiums than him and the Ferrari is unquestionably the better car.

But at the same time I doubt Ferrari will want to bring someone along to upset the applecart with Vettel. I suspect they will want a support driver for the 2nd seat. Trouble is, while Kimi is very much a team player, his results are definitely putting the WCC at risk, so it depends on how important the Constructors title is to them


I think Kimi will resign. Over the past few decades Ferrari have needed a very good reason to dump a driver. I think they view driving for Ferrari as being prestigious and only want big name drivers in the car. If a tier 1 driver is getable then that may be the end for Kimi but otherwise I think the seat is his if he wants it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:45 am 
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I was just wondering how a Monaco victory would have altered people's ideas about Kimi. The win would have been deserved, and was only lost because of the team.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:53 am 
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Fiki wrote:
I was just wondering how a Monaco victory would have altered people's ideas about Kimi. The win would have been deserved, and was only lost because of the team.

true, but one swallow doesn't make a summer!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:23 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Fiki wrote:
I was just wondering how a Monaco victory would have altered people's ideas about Kimi. The win would have been deserved, and was only lost because of the team.

true, but one swallow doesn't make a summer!

Or a girlfriend...


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:41 am 
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dompclarke wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Fiki wrote:
I was just wondering how a Monaco victory would have altered people's ideas about Kimi. The win would have been deserved, and was only lost because of the team.

true, but one swallow doesn't make a summer!

Or a girlfriend...

I don't know, some would say that's the sign of a keeper.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:50 am 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Fiki wrote:
I was just wondering how a Monaco victory would have altered people's ideas about Kimi. The win would have been deserved, and was only lost because of the team.

true, but one swallow doesn't make a summer!

Or a girlfriend...

I don't know, some would say that's the sign of a keeper.

taxi!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:19 am 
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Exediron wrote:
So, a little bit further into the year. How has everyone's opinion on this evolved?

Personally, mine hasn't changed. When the cars are equal, Kimi has looked unable to challenge either Mercedes driver, and that means he is unfortunately not doing a good enough job for the seat. He needs to be able to beat at least Bottas with some regularity for my opinion on that issue to change.

(I've also edited the fourth answer to be more neutral - apparently it doesn't reset the poll to do so)


I dont think Kimi will get a contract from Ferrari, nor do I think he deserves one. Not only is he not quick, he seems highly agitated during many races and appears to have lost whatever little amount of mojo he once had.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:26 am 
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If Vettel stays (as I expect) I think Kimi will go. The team will give him the opportunity to declare his retirement himself, so he'll go out with his head held high. If Vettel joins Mercedes, I think Kimi will stay for one last year in conjunction with a new tier one driver, to make sure the team has some stability in the driver department.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:38 pm 
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Bump.

Watching Kimi now just makes me a bit sad. He is kind of clinging on due to past glories such as being their most recent champion. He has had 6 podiums this season, but no wins. His last 6 seasons with Ferrari have produced 3 wins and none in this second spell.

Ferrari have tended to be very cautious with their recruitment of number two drivers. Barrichello would have probably got a few more years had be not seeked a new challenge. Massa was maintained for at least two seasons too long. Now Raikkonen is benefitting from this attitude.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:12 pm 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
Bump.

Watching Kimi now just makes me a bit sad. He is kind of clinging on due to past glories such as being their most recent champion. He has had 6 podiums this season, but no wins. His last 6 seasons with Ferrari have produced 3 wins and none in this second spell.

Ferrari have tended to be very cautious with their recruitment of number two drivers. Barrichello would have probably got a few more years had be not seeked a new challenge. Massa was maintained for at least two seasons too long. Now Raikkonen is benefitting from this attitude.

Yes it's the way that Ferrari seem to like to operate, would they ever bring in a driver that could challenge Vettel?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:33 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Bump.

Watching Kimi now just makes me a bit sad. He is kind of clinging on due to past glories such as being their most recent champion. He has had 6 podiums this season, but no wins. His last 6 seasons with Ferrari have produced 3 wins and none in this second spell.

Ferrari have tended to be very cautious with their recruitment of number two drivers. Barrichello would have probably got a few more years had be not seeked a new challenge. Massa was maintained for at least two seasons too long. Now Raikkonen is benefitting from this attitude.

Yes it's the way that Ferrari seem to like to operate, would they ever bring in a driver that could challenge Vettel?


I can't imagine Vettel allowing Ricciardo in the second Ferrari seat. That is of course assuming he has a veto. If Raikkonen suddenly retired then I imagine a safe option like Perez or Hulkenberg might end up in that seat.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:43 pm 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Bump.

Watching Kimi now just makes me a bit sad. He is kind of clinging on due to past glories such as being their most recent champion. He has had 6 podiums this season, but no wins. His last 6 seasons with Ferrari have produced 3 wins and none in this second spell.

Ferrari have tended to be very cautious with their recruitment of number two drivers. Barrichello would have probably got a few more years had be not seeked a new challenge. Massa was maintained for at least two seasons too long. Now Raikkonen is benefitting from this attitude.

Yes it's the way that Ferrari seem to like to operate, would they ever bring in a driver that could challenge Vettel?


I can't imagine Vettel allowing Ricciardo in the second Ferrari seat. That is of course assuming he has a veto. If Raikkonen suddenly retired then I imagine a safe option like Perez or Hulkenberg might end up in that seat.

I'm not sure that Vettel has the ultimate say I think it's more of a case that if Ferrari have full confidence in him then they won't see the need of signing a driver like Ricciardo, we've seen this year that perhaps they value the WDC more than the WCC, there is always more prestige in the WDC and it's not like they need the extra money of the WCC given the payments they already receive.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:01 pm 
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I've always liked Kimi and I think this year he's been held back to an extent by Ferrari so Vettel holds all the aces. I don't think he's got all the points he actually deserves, there have been a number of occasions when he could have had better results but for the obvious arrangement that Vettel gets all priority.
That being said, it is my opinion that Kimi simply makes too many mistakes these days. If Ferrari were to back on of their drivers, then Kimi would definitely not be the one. When he's had the opportunity to grab the bull by the horns, he's made mistakes.
Do i think he's still worthy of a drive? He's still fast, yes, but he he is not consistent enough for the team to rely on him to deliver a winning result if there are no issues with the car. That's been his issue and as a result, when he has been in a straight fight with Sebastian and he's been driving well, he's not been able or allowed to show it. That makes sense for Ferrari and i cannot argue against that based on Kimi's performance these days.


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