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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:23 am 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
moby wrote:
Alonso gave the 500 a big media boost in Europe. I suppose that counts as a contribution to be taken into account.

I have never watched any more than highlights of indy 500 previously, but did sit through it this year and read reports on the qualifying. As a driver in isolation I don't think he deserves it, but if you consider it as services to motorsport, than its fair enough.

How so, out of interest?

I must admit I didn't follow Jones' race as close as Alonso but I thought Alonso was one of the best drivers of the day, in contention for the win in places 1-4 more or less throughout but then was screwed by the last caution. On performance alone I'd give it to Alonso, he out qualified and IMO he outraced Jones.


Dont get me wrong, Alonso did a good job, but he is and was always rated one of the best drivers out there.

Sato, Chilton, and in particular Jones, achieved far more than expected of them. Alonso was out of the top 5 and seemed to be going backwards when he blew. You could say it was all down to yellows etc, but it was for everyone.

I reiterate, Alonso did well, and I would have liked to have seen him win, but as in a football game when you have a hundred million buck player just imported, and the un-ranked player scores the winner, they should have recognition for it as they still did the job. Not so much Jones maybe as he races the series and is a regular and has form, and I dont think he is a rookie, is he?.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:29 am 
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moby wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
moby wrote:
Alonso gave the 500 a big media boost in Europe. I suppose that counts as a contribution to be taken into account.

I have never watched any more than highlights of indy 500 previously, but did sit through it this year and read reports on the qualifying. As a driver in isolation I don't think he deserves it, but if you consider it as services to motorsport, than its fair enough.

How so, out of interest?

I must admit I didn't follow Jones' race as close as Alonso but I thought Alonso was one of the best drivers of the day, in contention for the win in places 1-4 more or less throughout but then was screwed by the last caution. On performance alone I'd give it to Alonso, he out qualified and IMO he outraced Jones.


Dont get me wrong, Alonso did a good job, but he is and was always rated one of the best drivers out there.

Sato, Chilton, and in particular Jones, achieved far more than expected of them. Alonso was out of the top 5 and seemed to be going backwards when he blew. You could say it was all down to yellows etc, but it was for everyone.

I reiterate, Alonso did well, and I would have liked to have seen him win, but as in a football game when you have a hundred million buck player just imported, and the un-ranked player scores the winner, they should have recognition for it as they still did the job.

I can see where you are coming from here. Alonso deserves credit for doing very well, but in all honesty was anybody expecting anything different? Mansell won the title when he crossed the pond and does anyone think Alonso is of a lower standard than Mansell is?

in terms of performance against expectation, I can see the case for Jones. Chilton and Sato, too, were exceptional


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:57 am 
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moby wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
moby wrote:
Alonso gave the 500 a big media boost in Europe. I suppose that counts as a contribution to be taken into account.

I have never watched any more than highlights of indy 500 previously, but did sit through it this year and read reports on the qualifying. As a driver in isolation I don't think he deserves it, but if you consider it as services to motorsport, than its fair enough.

How so, out of interest?

I must admit I didn't follow Jones' race as close as Alonso but I thought Alonso was one of the best drivers of the day, in contention for the win in places 1-4 more or less throughout but then was screwed by the last caution. On performance alone I'd give it to Alonso, he out qualified and IMO he outraced Jones.


Dont get me wrong, Alonso did a good job, but he is and was always rated one of the best drivers out there.

Sato, Chilton, and in particular Jones, achieved far more than expected of them. Alonso was out of the top 5 and seemed to be going backwards when he blew. You could say it was all down to yellows etc, but it was for everyone.

I reiterate, Alonso did well, and I would have liked to have seen him win, but as in a football game when you have a hundred million buck player just imported, and the un-ranked player scores the winner, they should have recognition for it as they still did the job. Not so much Jones maybe as he races the series and is a regular and has form.


He was moving up when his engine blew, from 9th back to fighting for 6th and was the quickest man on track. Chilton and Jones gained hugely from the yellows throughout, Chilton was nearly lapped by Alonso before the first yellow, and Alonso didn't gain from one of them so it's not like they were the same for everyone at all.

He isn't a 100m player in this game either, it was his first time in an oval race. No idea why there was such fuss about the Rookie award, it was a no-brainer. Quicker in Q, Quicker in the Race, lead the race 4 separate times through his own racing rather than yellows and was quickest man on track when his engine blew and Jones never went quicker after it.

The only aspect Jones did better throughout the entire thing was restarts, which while obviously important doesn't come close to outweighing all the things Alonso did better throughout the two weeks and race.

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-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:14 am 
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He was the best performing rookie, so he got the prize for it.

Can't see the fuss at all.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:11 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
moby wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
moby wrote:
Alonso gave the 500 a big media boost in Europe. I suppose that counts as a contribution to be taken into account.

I have never watched any more than highlights of indy 500 previously, but did sit through it this year and read reports on the qualifying. As a driver in isolation I don't think he deserves it, but if you consider it as services to motorsport, than its fair enough.

How so, out of interest?

I must admit I didn't follow Jones' race as close as Alonso but I thought Alonso was one of the best drivers of the day, in contention for the win in places 1-4 more or less throughout but then was screwed by the last caution. On performance alone I'd give it to Alonso, he out qualified and IMO he outraced Jones.


Dont get me wrong, Alonso did a good job, but he is and was always rated one of the best drivers out there.

Sato, Chilton, and in particular Jones, achieved far more than expected of them. Alonso was out of the top 5 and seemed to be going backwards when he blew. You could say it was all down to yellows etc, but it was for everyone.

I reiterate, Alonso did well, and I would have liked to have seen him win, but as in a football game when you have a hundred million buck player just imported, and the un-ranked player scores the winner, they should have recognition for it as they still did the job. Not so much Jones maybe as he races the series and is a regular and has form.


He was moving up when his engine blew, from 9th back to fighting for 6th and was the quickest man on track. Chilton and Jones gained hugely from the yellows throughout, Chilton was nearly lapped by Alonso before the first yellow, and Alonso didn't gain from one of them so it's not like they were the same for everyone at all.

He isn't a 100m player in this game either, it was his first time in an oval race. No idea why there was such fuss about the Rookie award, it was a no-brainer. Quicker in Q, Quicker in the Race, lead the race 4 separate times through his own racing rather than yellows and was quickest man on track when his engine blew and Jones never went quicker after it.

The only aspect Jones did better throughout the entire thing was restarts, which while obviously important doesn't come close to outweighing all the things Alonso did better throughout the two weeks and race.



When Alonso almost lapped Chilton, was it not due to Chilton pitting? Which Alonso had to do soon after. Chilton did well to get back out on the same lap.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:32 pm 
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moby wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
moby wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
moby wrote:
Alonso gave the 500 a big media boost in Europe. I suppose that counts as a contribution to be taken into account.

I have never watched any more than highlights of indy 500 previously, but did sit through it this year and read reports on the qualifying. As a driver in isolation I don't think he deserves it, but if you consider it as services to motorsport, than its fair enough.

How so, out of interest?

I must admit I didn't follow Jones' race as close as Alonso but I thought Alonso was one of the best drivers of the day, in contention for the win in places 1-4 more or less throughout but then was screwed by the last caution. On performance alone I'd give it to Alonso, he out qualified and IMO he outraced Jones.


Dont get me wrong, Alonso did a good job, but he is and was always rated one of the best drivers out there.

Sato, Chilton, and in particular Jones, achieved far more than expected of them. Alonso was out of the top 5 and seemed to be going backwards when he blew. You could say it was all down to yellows etc, but it was for everyone.

I reiterate, Alonso did well, and I would have liked to have seen him win, but as in a football game when you have a hundred million buck player just imported, and the un-ranked player scores the winner, they should have recognition for it as they still did the job. Not so much Jones maybe as he races the series and is a regular and has form.


He was moving up when his engine blew, from 9th back to fighting for 6th and was the quickest man on track. Chilton and Jones gained hugely from the yellows throughout, Chilton was nearly lapped by Alonso before the first yellow, and Alonso didn't gain from one of them so it's not like they were the same for everyone at all.

He isn't a 100m player in this game either, it was his first time in an oval race. No idea why there was such fuss about the Rookie award, it was a no-brainer. Quicker in Q, Quicker in the Race, lead the race 4 separate times through his own racing rather than yellows and was quickest man on track when his engine blew and Jones never went quicker after it.

The only aspect Jones did better throughout the entire thing was restarts, which while obviously important doesn't come close to outweighing all the things Alonso did better throughout the two weeks and race.



When Alonso almost lapped Chilton, was it not due to Chilton pitting? Which Alonso had to do soon after. Chilton did well to get back out on the same lap.


It was yeah, It just highlights he was a long way back from those guys until the strategy gamble in the 2nd yellow came off and the next yellow brought him the lead.

First 50-60 laps he wasn't anywhere near those top guys which is why he went off-strat to them in the first place. It paid of for him so fair play for that anyway.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:00 pm 
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moby wrote:
When Alonso almost lapped Chilton, was it not due to Chilton pitting? Which Alonso had to do soon after. Chilton did well to get back out on the same lap.


Alonso did lap Chilton. I don't understand Indycar rules, but during the caution, all the lapped cars were able to pass the safety car.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:28 pm 
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jrwb6e wrote:
moby wrote:
When Alonso almost lapped Chilton, was it not due to Chilton pitting? Which Alonso had to do soon after. Chilton did well to get back out on the same lap.


Alonso did lap Chilton. I don't understand Indycar rules, but during the caution, all the lapped cars were able to pass the safety car.



I thought they pass if they are on the same lap, not one lap down. That is, pass the Safety car and rejoin the end of the stream ? Dont know though, not a regular indy watcher.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:59 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
moby wrote:
Dont get me wrong, Alonso did a good job, but he is and was always rated one of the best drivers out there.

Sato, Chilton, and in particular Jones, achieved far more than expected of them. Alonso was out of the top 5 and seemed to be going backwards when he blew. You could say it was all down to yellows etc, but it was for everyone.

I reiterate, Alonso did well, and I would have liked to have seen him win, but as in a football game when you have a hundred million buck player just imported, and the un-ranked player scores the winner, they should have recognition for it as they still did the job. Not so much Jones maybe as he races the series and is a regular and has form.


He was moving up when his engine blew, from 9th back to fighting for 6th and was the quickest man on track.
Chilton and Jones gained hugely from the yellows throughout, Chilton was nearly lapped by Alonso before the first yellow, and Alonso didn't gain from one of them so it's not like they were the same for everyone at all.

He isn't a 100m player in this game either, it was his first time in an oval race. No idea why there was such fuss about the Rookie award, it was a no-brainer. Quicker in Q, Quicker in the Race, lead the race 4 separate times through his own racing rather than yellows and was quickest man on track when his engine blew and Jones never went quicker after it.

The only aspect Jones did better throughout the entire thing was restarts, which while obviously important doesn't come close to outweighing all the things Alonso did better throughout the two weeks and race.

He did seem to be starting to make his move a few of laps before it went bang. He had already started gaining fairly quickly after dropping back a few places since last the restart. I heard somewhere he was actually consciously conserving in the knowledge that the time to move was to coincide being at the pointy end towards the last few laps rather than too early. Worked for Sato who as I recall was just ahead of Alonso at the time of the blow up. Plus he seemed to have the edge on Sato pace wise at most points all being equal.

The more I think about the what ifs I think he was in with a very decent shot. Shame really.

I definitely think he deserved the rookie prize, albeit Jones was very impressive too.

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