planetf1.com

It is currently Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:24 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 20196
Lt. Drebin wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
- This year Vettel and Ferrari seem to have and slight edge. There was much pace left in that red car even when Hamilton was catching up.
- Hamilton paid the price for his own stupid mistake (rightly punished for stopping any future calculations of that kind) and for somewhat slow start. But, when is charging, the circuit is melting. Merc pole mode still may save him title chances.
- Bottas, ah so out of pace after a terrific pole. He rightly looked so down.
- Kimi should start looking at newspapers for job openings. Ferrari needs someone to occasionally slot himself between Vettel and Hamilton.
- Palmer should lend newspapers from Kimi.
- Ricc had a good first part until changed the tyres, which seem to put them on the back foot.
- Felipe one of the stars of the race, the only one who mixed with the big boys. Well done!
- Perez, another star of the race, eleven positions up with FI. Well done, also!
- Hulk, did good even with two positions down, but that's not where Renault wants to be.
- Wherlein, also one of the stars of the race, 11th after the bad injury, well defending against three different cars, with practically a year old car.
- Stroll should learn from his mistakes, else he won't end any race. Russia and Monaco will be critical.
- Alonso is wasting his talent in that orange car (Vandoorne too).
- Ocon three times 10th position, probably the only driver in the history to do so.


Of course Vettel still had pace at the end as he held a 16 second lead, no need to push. Not sure how that means they have the faster car. The damage was done before the first pit stops IMO and compounded by Hamilton's mistake and Bottas holding up Hamilton in the second stint for too long even though his on the faster tyre.

Hamilton needs to get pole with Bottas slotting in behind and luckily for Hamilton there's more chance of that happening than Kimi threatening.

Vettel opened the gap after the first tyre change. Something Mercedes was not so able to do once when in the lead.

You mean when Hamilton had the older tyres?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 14th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 20196
lamo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Bottas had an issue in the first stint. His team admittes this. He also have some more over heating issues early on in the 2nd stint. This wasn't his fault and he could well have pulled away from Vettel at the start if it wasn't for this. I don't actually see much wrong with holding drivers up anyway. I think it was a little unfai that Bottas had to cost himself some time on 2 occations to allow Hamilton through. He could very easily have managed 2nd or maybe 1st I think if he didn't have any issues or team orders.


If Mercedes admitted this then surely they could see pretty early in the race the longer they don't react the more the race win is getting away. Once Vettel pitted and Mercedes didn't respond with Hamilton stuck behind Bottas the race was getting away.

Bottas was also slow in the second stint.

My main point is that Bottas was unlucky to have have these issues which affected his performance as well as having to allow Hamilton through twice. I don't think his performance was actually that bad as he still kept Vettel behind him for quite some time even with an obvious issue.

He wasn't unlucky at all, it was the way he set his car up so it would be quick in qualifying.


His race pace in stint 1 Australia and all stints in Bahrain has been very poor, over 0.5 per lap slower than Hamilton and Vettel and took him out of contention of both races. China we can not tell due to his spin but his last stint against Hamilton still was down.

Lauda said in pre-season that Bottas was a couple of tenths behind on 1 lap and half a second behind on race pace. That still seems to be the case.

Not really because he outqualified Hamilton but was about a second a lap slower in the race, it was set up, it was flagged up on the Sky pad after qualifying showing that Hamilton had more understeer in the car ready for the race itself.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 14th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 20196
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Bottas had an issue in the first stint. His team admittes this. He also have some more over heating issues early on in the 2nd stint. This wasn't his fault and he could well have pulled away from Vettel at the start if it wasn't for this. I don't actually see much wrong with holding drivers up anyway. I think it was a little unfai that Bottas had to cost himself some time on 2 occations to allow Hamilton through. He could very easily have managed 2nd or maybe 1st I think if he didn't have any issues or team orders.


If Mercedes admitted this then surely they could see pretty early in the race the longer they don't react the more the race win is getting away. Once Vettel pitted and Mercedes didn't respond with Hamilton stuck behind Bottas the race was getting away.

Bottas was also slow in the second stint.

My main point is that Bottas was unlucky to have have these issues which affected his performance as well as having to allow Hamilton through twice. I don't think his performance was actually that bad as he still kept Vettel behind him for quite some time even with an obvious issue.

He wasn't unlucky at all, it was the way he set his car up so it would be quick in qualifying.

So Bottas had uneven tyre pressures in qualifying too? I don't think so. In stint 1 in the race, It was certainly to do with this that affected his performance as his team confirmed.

He was slow all the way through the race, Hamilton beat him by 16 seconds despite a 5 second penalty and despite being held up by Bottas for half the race and in the first pit stop when he had to be stacked behind him.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 14th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:52 pm
Posts: 1466
Bottas was slow in the 2nd stint, on SS to Hamilton's softs and he couldn't pull away but holding Hamilton up. Race was gone for sure then and Ferrari thinking thank you very much.

I'm not even sure if Bottas was any better on the Softs.

_________________
Podiums: 1st Spain 2016, 2nd Germany 2016 and 3rd Mexico 2016


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:09 pm
Posts: 7173
F1_Ernie wrote:
Bottas was slow in the 2nd stint, on SS to Hamilton's softs and he couldn't pull away but holding Hamilton up. Race was gone for sure then and Ferrari thinking thank you very much.

I'm not even sure if Bottas was any better on the Softs.


Raikkonen on 7 laps fresher tyres, gained 17.5 seconds on him in the last 18 laps. If Kimi wasn't held up by Massa in the 2nd stint he would have beaten Bottas.

_________________
http://www.racefan.co.uk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:13 am
Posts: 490
pokerman wrote:
optimisteprime wrote:
F1Tyrant wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Nah matey was watching the race, people getting carried with Hamilton's final stint and he couldn't get past Bottas without team order!

It isn't in Mercedes interests to have their drivers fighting over second when only one driver showed the pace to potentiallt win it. They can't afford to be stupid anymore.

I really think Mercedes need to have a word with their strategy guy. A 33% success rate when the pressure's on would put anyone's job under threat.


It amazes me the ability some people have to deflect blame - it was Mercedes' fault that Hamilton kept demanding new tyres when Vettel was chasing him down in Australia, and it was Mercedes' fault that Lewis was unable to beat his own team-mate without the help of team orders in Bahrain.

I guess you don't see the bigger picture were Bottas basically won the race for Ferrari, it started in qualifying when he decided it was more important to qualify well then have a good race car.



So Hamilton losing the start to Vettel didn't matter, Bottas didn't win the race for Ferrari, Vettel won the race for Ferrari!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:09 pm
Posts: 7173
Bottas on 20 lap fresher soft tyres than Hamilton;
Gained 9 seconds in 10 laps, 0.9 second per lap.

Hamilton on 11 lap fresher soft tyres than Bottas;
Gained 23.2 seconds in 15 laps, 1.5 seconds per lap.

Hamilton so much quicker, Bottas not only had double the advantage in the freshness of his tyres but was also 0.6 a lap slower. It puts Bottas at somewhere around 0.8-1.0 second per lap slower on the softs this race. Bottas was horrible on both tyres, not just the 9 laps he did on the "over pressured" SS at the start.

_________________
http://www.racefan.co.uk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 20196
Rockie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
optimisteprime wrote:
F1Tyrant wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Nah matey was watching the race, people getting carried with Hamilton's final stint and he couldn't get past Bottas without team order!

It isn't in Mercedes interests to have their drivers fighting over second when only one driver showed the pace to potentiallt win it. They can't afford to be stupid anymore.

I really think Mercedes need to have a word with their strategy guy. A 33% success rate when the pressure's on would put anyone's job under threat.


It amazes me the ability some people have to deflect blame - it was Mercedes' fault that Hamilton kept demanding new tyres when Vettel was chasing him down in Australia, and it was Mercedes' fault that Lewis was unable to beat his own team-mate without the help of team orders in Bahrain.

I guess you don't see the bigger picture were Bottas basically won the race for Ferrari, it started in qualifying when he decided it was more important to qualify well then have a good race car.



So Hamilton losing the start to Vettel didn't matter, Bottas didn't win the race for Ferrari, Vettel won the race for Ferrari!

That would have made no difference to the race, Vettel would have pitted to undercut both Bottas and Hamilton instead of just Bottas.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 14th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Last edited by pokerman on Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:13 pm
Posts: 784
Hey, that was a very interesting race. We saw drama, a fight to the end and some interesting passing and battling through the field.

In Formula One, if you make any mistakes during the weekend, it almost always costs you in the final tally. As fans we can't live on making excuses to release any driver from being held accountable. There were quite a few drivers who made mistakes, and there were quite a few drivers who put together very solid weekends.

_________________
Only dogs, mothers, and quality undergarments give unconditional support.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 20196
lamo wrote:
Bottas on 20 lap fresher soft tyres than Hamilton;
Gained 9 seconds in 10 laps, 0.9 second per lap.

Hamilton on 11 lap fresher soft tyres than Bottas;
Gained 23.2 seconds in 15 laps, 1.5 seconds per lap.

Hamilton so much quicker, Bottas not only had double the advantage in the freshness of his tyres but was also 0.6 a lap slower. It puts Bottas at somewhere around 0.8-1.0 second per lap slower on the softs this race. Bottas was horrible on both tyres, not just the 9 laps he did on the "over pressured" SS at the start.

That sounds about right and by coincidence when Vettel made his first pit stop Hamilton went immediately 0.8s quicker than Bottas to close right behind him.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 14th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:09 pm
Posts: 7173
A few snippets of information coming out

- Bottas would have maintained the lead if not for the long pit stop.
- Hamiltons DRS didn't deploy in the middle and end of his 2nd run in qualifying.

_________________
http://www.racefan.co.uk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 3558
lamo wrote:
A few snippets of information coming out

- Bottas would have maintained the lead if not for the long pit stop.
- Hamiltons DRS didn't deploy in the middle and end of his 2nd run in qualifying.

That's very interesting. Didn't know that and it certainly paints a different picture of the weekend. I had assumed he made a driving error in qualifying.

As for Bottas coming out in the lead, that would have transformed the race. Most likely both he and Vettel would have been sitting ducks for Hamilton after a while as Lewis was on the longer lasting tire. Lot's of ins and outs to this race.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 12:58 pm
Posts: 585
So will Merc give bottas another chance to demonstrate he can live with vettel and Lewis in the race or do we think Merc will act immediately


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:57 am
Posts: 877
Location: Brazil
This was a good win for Vettel, I'm going to watch the race later on as I missed it, but apparently the race was catastrophic for Mercedes, the luck they had in China with the SC was missing yesterday. Bottas off-pace and Hamilton blunders when he's at his worst were easily taken advantage of by Vettel.

_________________
Image

"Ask any racer, any real racer... It don't matter if you win by an inch or a mile. Winning is winning." (Dominic Toretto, "The Fast and The Furious")


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:51 am
Posts: 3895
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
- This year Vettel and Ferrari seem to have and slight edge. There was much pace left in that red car even when Hamilton was catching up.
- Hamilton paid the price for his own stupid mistake (rightly punished for stopping any future calculations of that kind) and for somewhat slow start. But, when is charging, the circuit is melting. Merc pole mode still may save him title chances.
- Bottas, ah so out of pace after a terrific pole. He rightly looked so down.
- Kimi should start looking at newspapers for job openings. Ferrari needs someone to occasionally slot himself between Vettel and Hamilton.
- Palmer should lend newspapers from Kimi.
- Ricc had a good first part until changed the tyres, which seem to put them on the back foot.
- Felipe one of the stars of the race, the only one who mixed with the big boys. Well done!
- Perez, another star of the race, eleven positions up with FI. Well done, also!
- Hulk, did good even with two positions down, but that's not where Renault wants to be.
- Wherlein, also one of the stars of the race, 11th after the bad injury, well defending against three different cars, with practically a year old car.
- Stroll should learn from his mistakes, else he won't end any race. Russia and Monaco will be critical.
- Alonso is wasting his talent in that orange car (Vandoorne too).
- Ocon three times 10th position, probably the only driver in the history to do so.


Of course Vettel still had pace at the end as he held a 16 second lead, no need to push. Not sure how that means they have the faster car. The damage was done before the first pit stops IMO and compounded by Hamilton's mistake and Bottas holding up Hamilton in the second stint for too long even though his on the faster tyre.

Hamilton needs to get pole with Bottas slotting in behind and luckily for Hamilton there's more chance of that happening than Kimi threatening.

Vettel opened the gap after the first tyre change. Something Mercedes was not so able to do once when in the lead.

You mean when Hamilton had the older tyres?

Vettel made the critical gap to Mercedes boys after the SC period. Hamilton had fresh tyres at that point.

_________________
The end is near


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:22 am
Posts: 3809
Both Lewis and Bottas looked extremely unhappy after the race/on the podium.

Presumably they're both blaming the team - although probably for different reasons?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:22 am
Posts: 3809
And I'm going to moan again about the race order list on the side of the screen as I can see no reason whatsoever to just show the race order without including the timing gap x( .


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 12:58 pm
Posts: 585
Lt. Drebin wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
- This year Vettel and Ferrari seem to have and slight edge. There was much pace left in that red car even when Hamilton was catching up.
- Hamilton paid the price for his own stupid mistake (rightly punished for stopping any future calculations of that kind) and for somewhat slow start. But, when is charging, the circuit is melting. Merc pole mode still may save him title chances.
- Bottas, ah so out of pace after a terrific pole. He rightly looked so down.
- Kimi should start looking at newspapers for job openings. Ferrari needs someone to occasionally slot himself between Vettel and Hamilton.
- Palmer should lend newspapers from Kimi.
- Ricc had a good first part until changed the tyres, which seem to put them on the back foot.
- Felipe one of the stars of the race, the only one who mixed with the big boys. Well done!
- Perez, another star of the race, eleven positions up with FI. Well done, also!
- Hulk, did good even with two positions down, but that's not where Renault wants to be.
- Wherlein, also one of the stars of the race, 11th after the bad injury, well defending against three different cars, with practically a year old car.
- Stroll should learn from his mistakes, else he won't end any race. Russia and Monaco will be critical.
- Alonso is wasting his talent in that orange car (Vandoorne too).
- Ocon three times 10th position, probably the only driver in the history to do so.


Of course Vettel still had pace at the end as he held a 16 second lead, no need to push. Not sure how that means they have the faster car. The damage was done before the first pit stops IMO and compounded by Hamilton's mistake and Bottas holding up Hamilton in the second stint for too long even though his on the faster tyre.

Hamilton needs to get pole with Bottas slotting in behind and luckily for Hamilton there's more chance of that happening than Kimi threatening.

Vettel opened the gap after the first tyre change. Something Mercedes was not so able to do once when in the lead.

You mean when Hamilton had the older tyres?

Vettel made the critical gap to Mercedes boys after the SC period. Hamilton had fresh tyres at that point.


Yep at this point Hamilton was tucked up behind bottas


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:37 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:22 am
Posts: 3809
I suspect both Merc. and Ferrari have already decided to designate No.1 and No. 2 drivers in view of the way Kimi let Seb by easily, and Bottas did the same for Lewis twice during the race.

It seems likely Ferrari realised their mistake (not letting the faster driver by) in China, and Merc. realised during this race.

Having said this, with a bit of luck I'm wrong - and both teams will only use team orders when one driver is clearly slower than the other.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:50 am
Posts: 323
Location: UK
Whilst I agree with the that is probably the case, as I previously mentioned I also think that 'the leading car pits first' policy needs sorting. It assumes that the leading car is the fastest driver. Where this is not the case it removes the possibility of the undercut, (for Hamilton in yesterdays race). In a season when overtaking is tricky maintaining the status quo removes that method of passing other drivers.

MV was quick witted enough to spot it IMV it should be an option for the driver wherever he is on the track.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:22 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:13 am
Posts: 490
Option or Prime wrote:
Whilst I agree with the that is probably the case, as I previously mentioned I also think that 'the leading car pits first' policy needs sorting. It assumes that the leading car is the fastest driver. Where this is not the case it removes the possibility of the undercut, (for Hamilton in yesterdays race). In a season when overtaking is tricky maintaining the status quo removes that method of passing other drivers.

MV was quick witted enough to spot it IMV it should be an option for the driver wherever he is on the track.


MV was the lead Redbull driver, Vettel's and Ferrari took that option away from Mercedes!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:40 pm
Posts: 5915
LKS1 wrote:
I suspect both Merc. and Ferrari have already decided to designate No.1 and No. 2 drivers in view of the way Kimi let Seb by easily, and Bottas did the same for Lewis twice during the race.

It seems likely Ferrari realised their mistake (not letting the faster driver by) in China, and Merc. realised during this race.

Having said this, with a bit of luck I'm wrong - and both teams will only use team orders when one driver is clearly slower than the other.


Not that I would disagree with the basic idea of No.1 and No.2 drivers, just that in this race Kimi's driving and his objectives were completely irrelevant to Vettel's racing for the win (which he accomplished, after all). It would be rather an act of a "crime" if Kimi was to attempt to obstruct his teammate from winning the race just for the sake of it when he himself never had neither a pace nor a racing craft to contemplate a podium even.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:45 pm
Posts: 30
LKS1 wrote:
And I'm going to moan again about the race order list on the side of the screen as I can see no reason whatsoever to just show the race order without including the timing gap x( .

I totally agree with you here. It was very frustrating.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:50 am
Posts: 323
Location: UK
Rockie wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Whilst I agree with the that is probably the case, as I previously mentioned I also think that 'the leading car pits first' policy needs sorting. It assumes that the leading car is the fastest driver. Where this is not the case it removes the possibility of the undercut, (for Hamilton in yesterdays race). In a season when overtaking is tricky maintaining the status quo removes that method of passing other drivers.

MV was quick witted enough to spot it IMV it should be an option for the driver wherever he is on the track.


MV was the lead Redbull driver, Vettel's and Ferrari took that option away from Mercedes!


I realise that, that is why I said "wherever the driver is on the track'", the driver should have as many tools to pass as possible, if he calls for the undercut it is his driving ability that would make it work, rather than a pre decided team policy. Which in Mercedes' case yesterday was poor.

Remembering of course that if the driver gets it wrong they could end up going backwards.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am
Posts: 476
JenF1 wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
And I'm going to moan again about the race order list on the side of the screen as I can see no reason whatsoever to just show the race order without including the timing gap x( .

I totally agree with you here. It was very frustrating.

Yes, very annoying. It used to be FAR better when it just had a small less obvious box at the bottom of the screen showing 5 at a time as well as the split times! That hardly blocked any of the screen yet told us so much more. This new box is really large and dumped on the left side of the screen and the cars keep driving behind it. only tells us the order, takes up more space, is much more obvious and ruins the view. We need the old graphics back.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:42 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:22 am
Posts: 3809
Option or Prime wrote:
Whilst I agree with the that is probably the case, as I previously mentioned I also think that 'the leading car pits first' policy needs sorting. It assumes that the leading car is the fastest driver. Where this is not the case it removes the possibility of the undercut, (for Hamilton in yesterdays race). In a season when overtaking is tricky maintaining the status quo removes that method of passing other drivers.

MV was quick witted enough to spot it IMV it should be an option for the driver wherever he is on the track.

That's pretty much what I said in my post - if one team driver is clearly far faster than the other (or on a different strategy) then it makes sense to issue team orders to let them pass without any need for undercutting. Whether the other driver will comply is a different matter....

Its funny how attitudes have changed recently as favouring/issuing team orders used to be considered as proof of No. 1 status -unless the other driver was mathematically out of the equation :lol: !


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:22 am
Posts: 3809
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
JenF1 wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
And I'm going to moan again about the race order list on the side of the screen as I can see no reason whatsoever to just show the race order without including the timing gap x( .

I totally agree with you here. It was very frustrating.

Yes, very annoying. It used to be FAR better when it just had a small less obvious box at the bottom of the screen showing 5 at a time as well as the split times! That hardly blocked any of the screen yet told us so much more. This new box is really large and dumped on the left side of the screen and the cars keep driving behind it. only tells us the order, takes up more space, is much more obvious and ruins the view. We need the old graphics back.

Couldn't agree more.

God knows who is responsible for the current graphic - but they need to be sacked pronto and the old graphic brought back.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:33 pm
Posts: 115
Andy2402 wrote:
So will Merc give bottas another chance to demonstrate he can live with vettel and Lewis in the race or do we think Merc will act immediately


i think they will give him another shot but I think after that if he doesn't improve then its game over


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:33 pm
Posts: 115
Option or Prime wrote:
Whilst I agree with the that is probably the case, as I previously mentioned I also think that 'the leading car pits first' policy needs sorting. It assumes that the leading car is the fastest driver. Where this is not the case it removes the possibility of the undercut, (for Hamilton in yesterdays race). In a season when overtaking is tricky maintaining the status quo removes that method of passing other drivers.

MV was quick witted enough to spot it IMV it should be an option for the driver wherever he is on the track.


I would be very surprised if Mercedes doesn't change it going forward


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:22 am
Posts: 3809
lucifers wrote:
Andy2402 wrote:
So will Merc give bottas another chance to demonstrate he can live with vettel and Lewis in the race or do we think Merc will act immediately


i think they will give him another shot but I think after that if he doesn't improve then its game over

It would be VERY interesting to find out the reasons behind why both Lewis and Bottas looked unhappy on the podium.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am
Posts: 476
LKS1 wrote:
lucifers wrote:
Andy2402 wrote:
So will Merc give bottas another chance to demonstrate he can live with vettel and Lewis in the race or do we think Merc will act immediately


i think they will give him another shot but I think after that if he doesn't improve then its game over

It would be VERY interesting to find out the reasons behind why both Lewis and Bottas looked unhappy on the podium.

I think it will be to do with when they got pitted. But I certainly think that Mercedes forcing Bottas to allow Hamilton through cost him 2nd place. Bottas seemed to manage to keep drivers behind even when he had a tyre pressure issue so I'm pretty sure he'll have managed to keep Hamilton behind if he hadn't been forced to let him by both them times. I think that must be what Bottas is annoyed about. I just wish there were not these orders.


Last edited by TheGiantHogweed on Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:09 pm
Posts: 3964
Location: LONDON...!
lamo wrote:
A few snippets of information coming out

- Bottas would have maintained the lead if not for the long pit stop.
- Hamiltons DRS didn't deploy in the middle and end of his 2nd run in qualifying.

Is that true?

I dont think they showed his 2nd lap at all.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:09 pm
Posts: 3964
Location: LONDON...!
Banana Man wrote:
spiritone wrote:
That was just a bad call on that penalty. I would argue that call no matter who got the penalty. Nobody gained any advantage so what did the penalty accomplish. Wasn't everybody posting last week "let them just race" now it's "well lets penalize every little chickens##t move".


Hamilton gained an advantage over Ricciardo.

All pit stops being equal, Dan should have passed Lewis as the latter was stacked behind VB. Slowing down the pair of them ensured Lewis maintained his advantage unfairly. Correct decision IMO and silly from Lewis.

Did he?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:52 pm
Posts: 1466
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
lucifers wrote:
Andy2402 wrote:
So will Merc give bottas another chance to demonstrate he can live with vettel and Lewis in the race or do we think Merc will act immediately


i think they will give him another shot but I think after that if he doesn't improve then its game over

It would be VERY interesting to find out the reasons behind why both Lewis and Bottas looked unhappy on the podium.

I think it will be to do with when they got pitted. But I certainly think that Mercedes forcing Bottas to allow Hamilton through cost him 2nd place. Bottas seemed to manage to keep drivers behind even when he had a tyre pressure issue so I'm pretty sure he'll have managed to keep Hamilton behind if he hadn't been forced to let him by both them times. I think that must be what Bottas is annoyed about. I just wish there were not these orders.


Mercedes race for wins and not second places. Bottas had no chance of the win and even though Mercedes left it too late there was still a slim chance of the win.

_________________
Podiums: 1st Spain 2016, 2nd Germany 2016 and 3rd Mexico 2016


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 am
Posts: 476
F1_Ernie wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
lucifers wrote:
Andy2402 wrote:
So will Merc give bottas another chance to demonstrate he can live with vettel and Lewis in the race or do we think Merc will act immediately


i think they will give him another shot but I think after that if he doesn't improve then its game over

It would be VERY interesting to find out the reasons behind why both Lewis and Bottas looked unhappy on the podium.

I think it will be to do with when they got pitted. But I certainly think that Mercedes forcing Bottas to allow Hamilton through cost him 2nd place. Bottas seemed to manage to keep drivers behind even when he had a tyre pressure issue so I'm pretty sure he'll have managed to keep Hamilton behind if he hadn't been forced to let him by both them times. I think that must be what Bottas is annoyed about. I just wish there were not these orders.


Mercedes race for wins and not second places. Bottas had no chance of the win and even though Mercedes left it too late there was still a slim chance of the win.


Yes, I agree he had no chance of a win with the issues he had but did you not see how close he was to overtaking Vettel just after the safety car? If he had managed that, he could well have held Vettel behind for another 10 laps like he did at the start of the race. And if he hadn't had any issues to start with, he probably will have pulled away at the start enough to mean that Vettel didn't have DRS and came out of the pits infront of Vettel anyway. If he didn't have issues, I think he certainly will have managed 2nd and quite possibly have challenged Vettel. But that obviously didn't happen. But I don't really see why they thought Hamilton would have been able to catch Vettel and overtake him and pull away by 5 seconds....


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:22 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:52 pm
Posts: 1466
Bottas had poor race pace in all stints and not just the start. I didn't see anything in the race which tells me Bottas would have pulled away in the first stint. What's the reasons for the rest of the race? Bottas couldn't pull away from Hamilton on faster tyres.

_________________
Podiums: 1st Spain 2016, 2nd Germany 2016 and 3rd Mexico 2016


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 20196
Pole2Win wrote:
This was a good win for Vettel, I'm going to watch the race later on as I missed it, but apparently the race was catastrophic for Mercedes, the luck they had in China with the SC was missing yesterday. Bottas off-pace and Hamilton blunders when he's at his worst were easily taken advantage of by Vettel.

Hamilton's blunderS?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 14th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 20196
Lt. Drebin wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
- This year Vettel and Ferrari seem to have and slight edge. There was much pace left in that red car even when Hamilton was catching up.
- Hamilton paid the price for his own stupid mistake (rightly punished for stopping any future calculations of that kind) and for somewhat slow start. But, when is charging, the circuit is melting. Merc pole mode still may save him title chances.
- Bottas, ah so out of pace after a terrific pole. He rightly looked so down.
- Kimi should start looking at newspapers for job openings. Ferrari needs someone to occasionally slot himself between Vettel and Hamilton.
- Palmer should lend newspapers from Kimi.
- Ricc had a good first part until changed the tyres, which seem to put them on the back foot.
- Felipe one of the stars of the race, the only one who mixed with the big boys. Well done!
- Perez, another star of the race, eleven positions up with FI. Well done, also!
- Hulk, did good even with two positions down, but that's not where Renault wants to be.
- Wherlein, also one of the stars of the race, 11th after the bad injury, well defending against three different cars, with practically a year old car.
- Stroll should learn from his mistakes, else he won't end any race. Russia and Monaco will be critical.
- Alonso is wasting his talent in that orange car (Vandoorne too).
- Ocon three times 10th position, probably the only driver in the history to do so.


Of course Vettel still had pace at the end as he held a 16 second lead, no need to push. Not sure how that means they have the faster car. The damage was done before the first pit stops IMO and compounded by Hamilton's mistake and Bottas holding up Hamilton in the second stint for too long even though his on the faster tyre.

Hamilton needs to get pole with Bottas slotting in behind and luckily for Hamilton there's more chance of that happening than Kimi threatening.

Vettel opened the gap after the first tyre change. Something Mercedes was not so able to do once when in the lead.

You mean when Hamilton had the older tyres?

Vettel made the critical gap to Mercedes boys after the SC period. Hamilton had fresh tyres at that point.

Hamilton was stuck behind Bottas after having passed Ricciardo and was on the slower tyres.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 14th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 20196
Option or Prime wrote:
Whilst I agree with the that is probably the case, as I previously mentioned I also think that 'the leading car pits first' policy needs sorting. It assumes that the leading car is the fastest driver. Where this is not the case it removes the possibility of the undercut, (for Hamilton in yesterdays race). In a season when overtaking is tricky maintaining the status quo removes that method of passing other drivers.

MV was quick witted enough to spot it IMV it should be an option for the driver wherever he is on the track.

It's what I said would happen after qualifying with the belief that Bottas would be slow, with Hamilton not being able to undercut Bottas, Vettel would do the undercut to take the lead.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 14th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 20196
Rockie wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Whilst I agree with the that is probably the case, as I previously mentioned I also think that 'the leading car pits first' policy needs sorting. It assumes that the leading car is the fastest driver. Where this is not the case it removes the possibility of the undercut, (for Hamilton in yesterdays race). In a season when overtaking is tricky maintaining the status quo removes that method of passing other drivers.

MV was quick witted enough to spot it IMV it should be an option for the driver wherever he is on the track.


MV was the lead Redbull driver, Vettel's and Ferrari took that option away from Mercedes!

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 14th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Last edited by pokerman on Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], StevoYZF and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group