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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:48 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
He clearly stated that he wasn't happy about being given team orders, that seemed to be what prayed on him the most.

The funny thing about giving the place back is numerous posts about the preferential given to Hamilton, I don't think I ever seen a supposed #1 driver have to beg the team for the #2 driver to let him by?

The reality is that it would have been quite ridiculous for Hamilton to give the place both in terms of the WDC and also because Hamilton would have beat him anyway because it still wouldn't have altered Hamilton bearing down on Bottas at 2 seconds a lap quicker on a track were the overtaking delta was 1.3s.

I think the point being made is that it's alleged Hamilton promised to give the place back if he couldn't get past Vettel. But that didn't happen. So regardless of who is the better driver there may have been a breach of trust

Yeah I've just answered that, there was actually no deal brokered between Hamilton and Mercedes.

I'm sure someone said they heard it on the driver radio during the race? Wasn't it you?

...were did you actually hear Mercedes say that if don't win the race then you must give the place back to Hamilton, it never happened.

Mercedes have gone on record as saying that the team order was made by themselves, it was their decision not Hamilton's.

as mentioned above, where is this record?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:43 pm 
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Does anyone know what Tag means in Mercedes radio parlance?. I can't remember hearing that before.

L5 From Lewis - Tag two to three
To Lewis - Copy

L21 To Lewis - Just let us know what tag we're in
From Lewis - Tag two

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/04/21/2 ... ranscript/

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:54 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Does anyone know what Tag means in Mercedes radio parlance?. I can't remember hearing that before.

L5 From Lewis - Tag two to three
To Lewis - Copy

L21 To Lewis - Just let us know what tag we're in
From Lewis - Tag two

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/04/21/2 ... ranscript/

I was looking at the transcripts earlier today and that jumped out at me too.

I think it might just be code for how hard he is pushing as it surely can't be a technical setting, the team would be able to see that on telemetry right? He also makes this comment on lap 25:

To Hamilton - "confirm tag, Lewis"
From Hamilton - "Still tag two but I don’t want to ruin my tyres"


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:23 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Does anyone know what Tag means in Mercedes radio parlance?. I can't remember hearing that before.

L5 From Lewis - Tag two to three
To Lewis - Copy

L21 To Lewis - Just let us know what tag we're in
From Lewis - Tag two

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/04/21/2 ... ranscript/

I was looking at the transcripts earlier today and that jumped out at me too.

I think it might just be code for how hard he is pushing as it surely can't be a technical setting, the team would be able to see that on telemetry right? He also makes this comment on lap 25:

To Hamilton - "confirm tag, Lewis"
From Hamilton - "Still tag two but I don’t want to ruin my tyres"


I was thinking maybe it's an acronym but I'm struggling to think what of. And yeah it has to be something Lewis is in charge of but the team can't see, so I'm lost here.

Something to do with strategy or pit stops maybe going by the one you posted that I missed?.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:28 am 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I think the point being made is that it's alleged Hamilton promised to give the place back if he couldn't get past Vettel. But that didn't happen. So regardless of who is the better driver there may have been a breach of trust

Yeah I've just answered that, there was actually no deal brokered between Hamilton and Mercedes.

I'm sure someone said they heard it on the driver radio during the race? Wasn't it you?

...were did you actually hear Mercedes say that if don't win the race then you must give the place back to Hamilton, it never happened.

Mercedes have gone on record as saying that the team order was made by themselves, it was their decision not Hamilton's.

as mentioned above, where is this record?

You find the agreement that was made that Hamilton had to give the place back and I will try and find Mercedes saying it was their decision to give team orders and it wasn't because of the request made by Hamilton.

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 4th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:02 pm 
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From a practical perspective, how was Hamilton supposed to give back the place to Bottas when he was chasing down Vettel, a good 9 - 10 seconds up the road, not knowing whether the chase would be successful until a couple of laps from the flag? He'd have to slow to a comparative crawl to do so and such a large disparity in speed would surely constitute dangerous driving. Am I missing something?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:40 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Yeah I've just answered that, there was actually no deal brokered between Hamilton and Mercedes.

I'm sure someone said they heard it on the driver radio during the race? Wasn't it you?

...were did you actually hear Mercedes say that if don't win the race then you must give the place back to Hamilton, it never happened.

Mercedes have gone on record as saying that the team order was made by themselves, it was their decision not Hamilton's.

as mentioned above, where is this record?

You find the agreement that was made that Hamilton had to give the place back and I will try and find Mercedes saying it was their decision to give team orders and it wasn't because of the request made by Hamilton.

You'll note I said "it's alleged." I was just pointing out what others were saying in the prior conversation and never claimed the knowledge myself. All you have to do is look back up the thread for those sources.

But you are claiming there was no deal brokered between Hamilton and Mercedes. What is your source for that?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:05 pm 
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Quote:
20 From Lewis Hamilton Need to pick up the pace. Can’t let the Ferrari go away.
20 To Lewis Hamilton OK copy, copy.
20 To Valtteri Bottas So Valtteri it’s important you stay with Vettel. Lewis is in strat six behind on the soft tyre so you need to keep with Vettel.
20 From Valtteri Bottas Copy.
20 To Valtteri Bottas So Valtteri we need you to be within a second of Vettel, you need to be in DRS, and you’ll get a maximum of two laps to achieve that, OK.
21 To Valtteri Bottas So please let Lewis go.
21 From Valtteri Bottas Can you confirm? I just pulled the gap to him in the last lap.
21 To Sebastian Vettel They are swapping driver position, Hamilton and Bottas.
21 To Lewis Hamilton OK Lewis so close up to Valtteri. He’s been given the message.
21 From Lewis Hamilton If he’s picked up his pace, he should be OK. If I can’t catch him, if I get past, I can’t catch up a little bit.
21 To Lewis Hamilton Just let us know what tag we’re in.
21 From Lewis Hamilton Tag two.
21 To Valtteri Bottas And stay where you are.
21 From Valtteri Bottas Copy.


http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/04/21/2 ... ranscript/

So this is from the radio transcript.
It sounds to me like when Hamilton is told that Bottas is being told to let Lewis past he says if Bottas has increased his pace then it's okay and there is no need for Bottas to move over?
Mistake from Lewis. He may have been all over Vettel at the end if he'd have gone past on lap 20/21


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:19 am 
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Laz_T800 wrote:
Quote:
20 From Lewis Hamilton Need to pick up the pace. Can’t let the Ferrari go away.
20 To Lewis Hamilton OK copy, copy.
20 To Valtteri Bottas So Valtteri it’s important you stay with Vettel. Lewis is in strat six behind on the soft tyre so you need to keep with Vettel.
20 From Valtteri Bottas Copy.
20 To Valtteri Bottas So Valtteri we need you to be within a second of Vettel, you need to be in DRS, and you’ll get a maximum of two laps to achieve that, OK.
21 To Valtteri Bottas So please let Lewis go.
21 From Valtteri Bottas Can you confirm? I just pulled the gap to him in the last lap.
21 To Sebastian Vettel They are swapping driver position, Hamilton and Bottas.
21 To Lewis Hamilton OK Lewis so close up to Valtteri. He’s been given the message.
21 From Lewis Hamilton If he’s picked up his pace, he should be OK. If I can’t catch him, if I get past, I can’t catch up a little bit.
21 To Lewis Hamilton Just let us know what tag we’re in.
21 From Lewis Hamilton Tag two.
21 To Valtteri Bottas And stay where you are.
21 From Valtteri Bottas Copy.


http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/04/21/2 ... ranscript/

So this is from the radio transcript.
It sounds to me like when Hamilton is told that Bottas is being told to let Lewis past he says if Bottas has increased his pace then it's okay and there is no need for Bottas to move over?
Mistake from Lewis. He may have been all over Vettel at the end if he'd have gone past on lap 20/21

Sounds like Hamilton was giving Bottas every chance so that team orders would not be implemented, shame about the false message by Bottas that he pulled the gap back to Vettel which delayed the final order far too late.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 4th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:29 am 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I'm sure someone said they heard it on the driver radio during the race? Wasn't it you?

...were did you actually hear Mercedes say that if don't win the race then you must give the place back to Hamilton, it never happened.

Mercedes have gone on record as saying that the team order was made by themselves, it was their decision not Hamilton's.

as mentioned above, where is this record?

You find the agreement that was made that Hamilton had to give the place back and I will try and find Mercedes saying it was their decision to give team orders and it wasn't because of the request made by Hamilton.

You'll note I said "it's alleged." I was just pointing out what others were saying in the prior conversation and never claimed the knowledge myself. All you have to do is look back up the thread for those sources.

But you are claiming there was no deal brokered between Hamilton and Mercedes. What is your source for that?

The evidence is all around you, were is the radio message from Mercedes informing Bottas that he would be given the place back if Hamilton did not pass Vettel, were was the message from Mercedes telling Hamilton that he would have to give the place back, were is this deal that Mercedes agreed to, and why is it not mentioned in any interview after the race or in any article, what did Wolff have to say?

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autos ... eam-orders

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 4th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:10 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Laz_T800 wrote:
Quote:
20 From Lewis Hamilton Need to pick up the pace. Can’t let the Ferrari go away.
20 To Lewis Hamilton OK copy, copy.
20 To Valtteri Bottas So Valtteri it’s important you stay with Vettel. Lewis is in strat six behind on the soft tyre so you need to keep with Vettel.
20 From Valtteri Bottas Copy.
20 To Valtteri Bottas So Valtteri we need you to be within a second of Vettel, you need to be in DRS, and you’ll get a maximum of two laps to achieve that, OK.
21 To Valtteri Bottas So please let Lewis go.
21 From Valtteri Bottas Can you confirm? I just pulled the gap to him in the last lap.
21 To Sebastian Vettel They are swapping driver position, Hamilton and Bottas.
21 To Lewis Hamilton OK Lewis so close up to Valtteri. He’s been given the message.
21 From Lewis Hamilton If he’s picked up his pace, he should be OK. If I can’t catch him, if I get past, I can’t catch up a little bit.
21 To Lewis Hamilton Just let us know what tag we’re in.
21 From Lewis Hamilton Tag two.
21 To Valtteri Bottas And stay where you are.
21 From Valtteri Bottas Copy.


http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/04/21/2 ... ranscript/

So this is from the radio transcript.
It sounds to me like when Hamilton is told that Bottas is being told to let Lewis past he says if Bottas has increased his pace then it's okay and there is no need for Bottas to move over?
Mistake from Lewis. He may have been all over Vettel at the end if he'd have gone past on lap 20/21

Sounds like Hamilton was giving Bottas every chance so that team orders would not be implemented, shame about the false message by Bottas that he pulled the gap back to Vettel which delayed the final order far too late.

Which false messages were those?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:06 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
...were did you actually hear Mercedes say that if don't win the race then you must give the place back to Hamilton, it never happened.

Mercedes have gone on record as saying that the team order was made by themselves, it was their decision not Hamilton's.

as mentioned above, where is this record?

You find the agreement that was made that Hamilton had to give the place back and I will try and find Mercedes saying it was their decision to give team orders and it wasn't because of the request made by Hamilton.

You'll note I said "it's alleged." I was just pointing out what others were saying in the prior conversation and never claimed the knowledge myself. All you have to do is look back up the thread for those sources.

But you are claiming there was no deal brokered between Hamilton and Mercedes. What is your source for that?

The evidence is all around you, were is the radio message from Mercedes informing Bottas that he would be given the place back if Hamilton did not pass Vettel, were was the message from Mercedes telling Hamilton that he would have to give the place back, were is this deal that Mercedes agreed to, and why is it not mentioned in any interview after the race or in any article, what did Wolff have to say?

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autos ... eam-orders

you said, and I quote: "Also regarding what Hamilton said, Mercedes have come out and said it was their decision to issue team orders not some kind of deal agreed with Hamilton, they didn't say to Hamilton ok will we will allow you to pass but if you don't win the race you must give the place back.
"


That was quite specific and I was asking for your source for that, which I don't think that article provides?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:26 am 
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tootsie323 wrote:
From a practical perspective, how was Hamilton supposed to give back the place to Bottas when he was chasing down Vettel, a good 9 - 10 seconds up the road, not knowing whether the chase would be successful until a couple of laps from the flag? He'd have to slow to a comparative crawl to do so and such a large disparity in speed would surely constitute dangerous driving. Am I missing something?


It's not that hard to give up 10 seconds on a single straight safely by driving slowly along the pit wall.

Not that I think he should have done that of course. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:28 am 
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mds wrote:
It's not that hard to give up 10 seconds on a single straight safely by driving slowly along the pit wall.

Not that I think he should have done that of course. :)

Just imagine the furor from the public if he'd actually done that! :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:06 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Laz_T800 wrote:
Quote:
20 From Lewis Hamilton Need to pick up the pace. Can’t let the Ferrari go away.
20 To Lewis Hamilton OK copy, copy.
20 To Valtteri Bottas So Valtteri it’s important you stay with Vettel. Lewis is in strat six behind on the soft tyre so you need to keep with Vettel.
20 From Valtteri Bottas Copy.
20 To Valtteri Bottas So Valtteri we need you to be within a second of Vettel, you need to be in DRS, and you’ll get a maximum of two laps to achieve that, OK.
21 To Valtteri Bottas So please let Lewis go.
21 From Valtteri Bottas Can you confirm? I just pulled the gap to him in the last lap.
21 To Sebastian Vettel They are swapping driver position, Hamilton and Bottas.
21 To Lewis Hamilton OK Lewis so close up to Valtteri. He’s been given the message.
21 From Lewis Hamilton If he’s picked up his pace, he should be OK. If I can’t catch him, if I get past, I can’t catch up a little bit.
21 To Lewis Hamilton Just let us know what tag we’re in.
21 From Lewis Hamilton Tag two.
21 To Valtteri Bottas And stay where you are.
21 From Valtteri Bottas Copy.


http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/04/21/2 ... ranscript/

So this is from the radio transcript.
It sounds to me like when Hamilton is told that Bottas is being told to let Lewis past he says if Bottas has increased his pace then it's okay and there is no need for Bottas to move over?
Mistake from Lewis. He may have been all over Vettel at the end if he'd have gone past on lap 20/21

Sounds like Hamilton was giving Bottas every chance so that team orders would not be implemented, shame about the false message by Bottas that he pulled the gap back to Vettel which delayed the final order far too late.

Which false messages were those?

Bottas said he had just pulled back the gap to Vettel when in fact his lap was slower.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 4th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:09 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
as mentioned above, where is this record?

You find the agreement that was made that Hamilton had to give the place back and I will try and find Mercedes saying it was their decision to give team orders and it wasn't because of the request made by Hamilton.

You'll note I said "it's alleged." I was just pointing out what others were saying in the prior conversation and never claimed the knowledge myself. All you have to do is look back up the thread for those sources.

But you are claiming there was no deal brokered between Hamilton and Mercedes. What is your source for that?

The evidence is all around you, were is the radio message from Mercedes informing Bottas that he would be given the place back if Hamilton did not pass Vettel, were was the message from Mercedes telling Hamilton that he would have to give the place back, were is this deal that Mercedes agreed to, and why is it not mentioned in any interview after the race or in any article, what did Wolff have to say?

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autos ... eam-orders

you said, and I quote: "Also regarding what Hamilton said, Mercedes have come out and said it was their decision to issue team orders not some kind of deal agreed with Hamilton, they didn't say to Hamilton ok will we will allow you to pass but if you don't win the race you must give the place back.
"


That was quite specific and I was asking for your source for that, which I don't think that article provides?

Wolff clearly stated they were unhappy to give team orders against Bottas, were do they say that they acted upon Hamilton's request?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 4th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:31 pm 
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Posts: 23042
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You find the agreement that was made that Hamilton had to give the place back and I will try and find Mercedes saying it was their decision to give team orders and it wasn't because of the request made by Hamilton.

You'll note I said "it's alleged." I was just pointing out what others were saying in the prior conversation and never claimed the knowledge myself. All you have to do is look back up the thread for those sources.

But you are claiming there was no deal brokered between Hamilton and Mercedes. What is your source for that?

The evidence is all around you, were is the radio message from Mercedes informing Bottas that he would be given the place back if Hamilton did not pass Vettel, were was the message from Mercedes telling Hamilton that he would have to give the place back, were is this deal that Mercedes agreed to, and why is it not mentioned in any interview after the race or in any article, what did Wolff have to say?

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autos ... eam-orders

you said, and I quote: "Also regarding what Hamilton said, Mercedes have come out and said it was their decision to issue team orders not some kind of deal agreed with Hamilton, they didn't say to Hamilton ok will we will allow you to pass but if you don't win the race you must give the place back.
"


That was quite specific and I was asking for your source for that, which I don't think that article provides?

Wolff clearly stated they were unhappy to give team orders against Bottas, were do they say that they acted upon Hamilton's request?

I'm not saying they did. But I think you are being very misleading here. Your claim indicates that Mercedes actively said they didn't have "some kind of deal with Hamilton," whereas the "evidence" you've provided doesn't mention it either way. You've formed a conclusion and presented it as a fact with no actual evidence to support it.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:43 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
You'll note I said "it's alleged." I was just pointing out what others were saying in the prior conversation and never claimed the knowledge myself. All you have to do is look back up the thread for those sources.

But you are claiming there was no deal brokered between Hamilton and Mercedes. What is your source for that?

The evidence is all around you, were is the radio message from Mercedes informing Bottas that he would be given the place back if Hamilton did not pass Vettel, were was the message from Mercedes telling Hamilton that he would have to give the place back, were is this deal that Mercedes agreed to, and why is it not mentioned in any interview after the race or in any article, what did Wolff have to say?

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autos ... eam-orders

you said, and I quote: "Also regarding what Hamilton said, Mercedes have come out and said it was their decision to issue team orders not some kind of deal agreed with Hamilton, they didn't say to Hamilton ok will we will allow you to pass but if you don't win the race you must give the place back.
"


That was quite specific and I was asking for your source for that, which I don't think that article provides?

Wolff clearly stated they were unhappy to give team orders against Bottas, were do they say that they acted upon Hamilton's request?

I'm not saying they did. But I think you are being very misleading here. Your claim indicates that Mercedes actively said they didn't have "some kind of deal with Hamilton," whereas the "evidence" you've provided doesn't mention it either way. You've formed a conclusion and presented it as a fact with no actual evidence to support it.

Unless I can see any kind of evidence they did then they didn't, they have clearly said it was their decision to issue team orders with no reference made to Hamilton being actively involved in the process, ergo were is this deal that was made, with the total absence of any proof of a deal being made then it wasn't made in the first place.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 4th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:07 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
The evidence is all around you, were is the radio message from Mercedes informing Bottas that he would be given the place back if Hamilton did not pass Vettel, were was the message from Mercedes telling Hamilton that he would have to give the place back, were is this deal that Mercedes agreed to, and why is it not mentioned in any interview after the race or in any article, what did Wolff have to say?

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autos ... eam-orders

you said, and I quote: "Also regarding what Hamilton said, Mercedes have come out and said it was their decision to issue team orders not some kind of deal agreed with Hamilton, they didn't say to Hamilton ok will we will allow you to pass but if you don't win the race you must give the place back.
"


That was quite specific and I was asking for your source for that, which I don't think that article provides?

Wolff clearly stated they were unhappy to give team orders against Bottas, were do they say that they acted upon Hamilton's request?

I'm not saying they did. But I think you are being very misleading here. Your claim indicates that Mercedes actively said they didn't have "some kind of deal with Hamilton," whereas the "evidence" you've provided doesn't mention it either way. You've formed a conclusion and presented it as a fact with no actual evidence to support it.

Unless I can see any kind of evidence they did then they didn't, they have clearly said it was their decision to issue team orders with no reference made to Hamilton being actively involved in the process, ergo were is this deal that was made, with the total absence of any proof of a deal being made then it wasn't made in the first place.

I think you're missing the point here. What you've just said is reasonable and if you'd said that at the beginning no-one would have asked you for proof. But you claimed a positive affirmation from Mercedes, which is simply not true.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:49 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
you said, and I quote: "Also regarding what Hamilton said, Mercedes have come out and said it was their decision to issue team orders not some kind of deal agreed with Hamilton, they didn't say to Hamilton ok will we will allow you to pass but if you don't win the race you must give the place back.
"


That was quite specific and I was asking for your source for that, which I don't think that article provides?

Wolff clearly stated they were unhappy to give team orders against Bottas, were do they say that they acted upon Hamilton's request?

I'm not saying they did. But I think you are being very misleading here. Your claim indicates that Mercedes actively said they didn't have "some kind of deal with Hamilton," whereas the "evidence" you've provided doesn't mention it either way. You've formed a conclusion and presented it as a fact with no actual evidence to support it.

Unless I can see any kind of evidence they did then they didn't, they have clearly said it was their decision to issue team orders with no reference made to Hamilton being actively involved in the process, ergo were is this deal that was made, with the total absence of any proof of a deal being made then it wasn't made in the first place.

I think you're missing the point here. What you've just said is reasonable and if you'd said that at the beginning no-one would have asked you for proof. But you claimed a positive affirmation from Mercedes, which is simply not true.

Right I understand what you mean, but the fact Mercedes have said absolutely nothing about an agreement in an article were they discuss the team order means that they are not denying it so it could be true seems a bit of a stretch when it's being questioned why Hamilton did not give the place back to Bottas.

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