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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:36 pm 
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With Alonso doing the indy 500 and Jenson the Monaco gp, will Monaco rekindle his desire to race? Especially as Alonso will most likely quit McLaren if Honda don't sort it out! I think there's a very good chance that JB will return, especially if he does OK at Monaco in that pig of a car!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:52 pm 
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paulpinckston wrote:
With Alonso doing the indy 500 and Jenson the Monaco gp, will Monaco rekindle his desire to race? Especially as Alonso will most likely quit McLaren if Honda don't sort it out! I think there's a very good chance that JB will return, especially if he does OK at Monaco in that pig of a car!


Why would ANYONE want to come back to McLaren and struggle to complete races? Button should have his head examined if that appeals to him.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:40 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
paulpinckston wrote:
With Alonso doing the indy 500 and Jenson the Monaco gp, will Monaco rekindle his desire to race? Especially as Alonso will most likely quit McLaren if Honda don't sort it out! I think there's a very good chance that JB will return, especially if he does OK at Monaco in that pig of a car!


Why would ANYONE want to come back to McLaren and struggle to complete races? Button should have his head examined if that appeals to him.

Yawn. Your anti Honda/McLaren propaganda is starting to become very tiresome.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:30 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
Why would ANYONE want to come back to McLaren and struggle to complete races? Button should have his head examined if that appeals to him.

Yawn. Your anti Honda/McLaren propaganda is starting to become very tiresome.

... starting?

Seriously though, I would give Alonso at least a 50/50 shot of not driving for McLaren in 100% of the races next year, so Button has a good chance of returning in 2018. Will Button return full-time? I doubt it. He seems to be enjoying retirement, and I don't think he'd want to get back into F1 for a single year before heading off again.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:58 pm 
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Well, all the drivers are saying how much more fun these cars are to drive, so it's not impossible that Button's interest may be rekindled if he enjoys his taste in Monaco

But...there's a bit of a Catch-22 here. Button will likely only get a drive if Alonso leaves McLaren. And Alonso is only likely to leave McLaren if Honda can't sort out their issues again. So will Button want to come back only to drive around the back of the pack? I doubt it. And if the car is good, then there likely won't be a place for Button anyway.

So in short, I think it's unlikely


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:11 am 
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I don't think so. If they need someone for that role they'd look for a younger prospect I think.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:01 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
Why would ANYONE want to come back to McLaren and struggle to complete races? Button should have his head examined if that appeals to him.

Yawn. Your anti Honda/McLaren propaganda is starting to become very tiresome.

... starting?

Seriously though, I would give Alonso at least a 50/50 shot of not driving for McLaren in 100% of the races next year, so Button has a good chance of returning in 2018. Will Button return full-time? I doubt it. He seems to be enjoying retirement, and I don't think he'd want to get back into F1 for a single year before heading off again.


There's a very good chance that Alonso would not be driving for McLaren next year.

With 1 seat vacant, the obvious choice would be Button but it depends how much progress Honda would make by Abu Dhabi for Button to give it a serious thought.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:05 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Well, all the drivers are saying how much more fun these cars are to drive, so it's not impossible that Button's interest may be rekindled if he enjoys his taste in Monaco

But...there's a bit of a Catch-22 here. Button will likely only get a drive if Alonso leaves McLaren. And Alonso is only likely to leave McLaren if Honda can't sort out their issues again. So will Button want to come back only to drive around the back of the pack? I doubt it. And if the car is good, then there likely won't be a place for Button anyway.

So in short, I think it's unlikely

On the other hand if Alonso does leave them they're likely to be championship contenders the next season :-P

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:06 am 
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Exediron wrote:
... starting?

Good point.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:57 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
With 1 seat vacant, the obvious choice would be Button but it depends how much progress Honda would make by Abu Dhabi for Button to give it a serious thought.


Button has retired and will be 38 next season. He is far from an obvious choice.
That aside, Alonso said a few days ago that Button wasn't all that excited to be racing in Monaco. Making it even more unlikely.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:05 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Well, all the drivers are saying how much more fun these cars are to drive, so it's not impossible that Button's interest may be rekindled if he enjoys his taste in Monaco

But...there's a bit of a Catch-22 here. Button will likely only get a drive if Alonso leaves McLaren. And Alonso is only likely to leave McLaren if Honda can't sort out their issues again. So will Button want to come back only to drive around the back of the pack? I doubt it. And if the car is good, then there likely won't be a place for Button anyway.

So in short, I think it's unlikely


Even if McLaren are title contenders in 2018, I think Alonso would rather take a drive with Mercedes or Ferrari. Honda have been saying for 3 years they will get on top of these issues and so it would be very hard for Alonso to trust them again. Especially after 5 years at Ferrari with no result.

Button has a race contract already signed for 2018 with McLaren. (part of his agreement to give up his F1 seat to Vandoorne for this year).
I think McLaren would be better off with a new driver that can take the team forward for multiple years and I dont think either Button or Alonso would entertain a 2 year deal.
But who could fill that role?
Perez? Ricciardo? Sainz?
I don't think there is anyone else good enough that fits what they really need for the next few years.
I highly doubt Hamilton or Vettel going to McLaren. It would make an awesome story if Ham did return back 'home' to take McLaren back to victory.
He swapped to Merc and everyone thought he was mad. Maybe another risk like that is worth taking...

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:37 am 
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Randine wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Well, all the drivers are saying how much more fun these cars are to drive, so it's not impossible that Button's interest may be rekindled if he enjoys his taste in Monaco

But...there's a bit of a Catch-22 here. Button will likely only get a drive if Alonso leaves McLaren. And Alonso is only likely to leave McLaren if Honda can't sort out their issues again. So will Button want to come back only to drive around the back of the pack? I doubt it. And if the car is good, then there likely won't be a place for Button anyway.

So in short, I think it's unlikely


Even if McLaren are title contenders in 2018, I think Alonso would rather take a drive with Mercedes or Ferrari. Honda have been saying for 3 years they will get on top of these issues and so it would be very hard for Alonso to trust them again. Especially after 5 years at Ferrari with no result.

Button has a race contract already signed for 2018 with McLaren. (part of his agreement to give up his F1 seat to Vandoorne for this year).
I think McLaren would be better off with a new driver that can take the team forward for multiple years and I dont think either Button or Alonso would entertain a 2 year deal.
But who could fill that role?
Perez? Ricciardo? Sainz?
I don't think there is anyone else good enough that fits what they really need for the next few years.
I highly doubt Hamilton or Vettel going to McLaren. It would make an awesome story if Ham did return back 'home' to take McLaren back to victory.
He swapped to Merc and everyone thought he was mad. Maybe another risk like that is worth taking...

I think Alonso would stay if Honda came good. I get the impression he is very happy at McLaren itself and doubtless he'd want to see the project through to completion if it looked like they finally got all their ducks in a row.

If McLaren do want a senior driver to replace Alonso (assuming he leaves and Button doesn't come back), I don't see anybody wanting to go there while Honda have so many issues. If they can't do it in three years what confidence may there be that they'll do it in four? If Honda do finally get things sorted, then I find it hard to imagine Alonso actually leaving.

I think your final point is a small possibility. Say Alonso does decide he has lost all faith in Honda even when they come good, it would only be to go to another Works team IMO. And Renault would have to be a lot better than they are now for Alonso to truly consider them: I don't see him wanting to go through a building period again. But I wouldn't see a Hamilton homecoming as impossible and there is a small chance that they could swap teams if that was the case. But it's very small!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:43 am 
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Covalent wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
paulpinckston wrote:
With Alonso doing the indy 500 and Jenson the Monaco gp, will Monaco rekindle his desire to race? Especially as Alonso will most likely quit McLaren if Honda don't sort it out! I think there's a very good chance that JB will return, especially if he does OK at Monaco in that pig of a car!


Why would ANYONE want to come back to McLaren and struggle to complete races? Button should have his head examined if that appeals to him.

Yawn. Your anti Honda/McLaren propaganda is starting to become very tiresome.


It's a legitimate question. McLaren have been sliding further back every year with the most recent series of tests showing a near horrific lack of reliability along with no increase in speed/power.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:53 pm 
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No because Jenson gets very cross when he sees internet forum loonies holding up his career stats to ridicule and this will only make it worse!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:15 pm 
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Jenson is focused on qualifying for IM Kona which is a full time job. He doesn't have time to mess around with driving a car at the back of the pack until it breaks.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:54 pm 
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Randine wrote:
I highly doubt Hamilton or Vettel going to McLaren. It would make an awesome story if Ham did return back 'home' to take McLaren back to victory. He swapped to Merc and everyone thought he was mad. Maybe another risk like that is worth taking...


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh please God no. If Lewis did return to McLaren just as Honda finally came good his 'legend' would became positively Messianic and at that point I would have to stop watching... or at least stop visiting F1 forums.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:38 am 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
It's a legitimate question. McLaren have been sliding further back every year with the most recent series of tests showing a near horrific lack of reliability along with no increase in speed/power.

That's not even true. In the Bahrain test they got over 80 laps in one day - much better than any point in the preseason. And they were much closer to the pace at the front than at any point in the preseason as well.

Also, even if the question of 'Would Button want to return to McLaren' might be a legitimate question, the way you phrased it is an attack on McLaren.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:08 am 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
paulpinckston wrote:
With Alonso doing the indy 500 and Jenson the Monaco gp, will Monaco rekindle his desire to race? Especially as Alonso will most likely quit McLaren if Honda don't sort it out! I think there's a very good chance that JB will return, especially if he does OK at Monaco in that pig of a car!


Why would ANYONE want to come back to McLaren and struggle to complete races? Button should have his head examined if that appeals to him.

Yawn. Your anti Honda/McLaren propaganda is starting to become very tiresome.


It's a legitimate question. McLaren have been sliding further back every year with the most recent series of tests showing a near horrific lack of reliability along with no increase in speed/power.


Not really true on several counts.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:50 am 
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Exediron wrote:
And they were much closer to the pace at the front than at any point in the preseason as well.


Well yeah... But if those at the front were holding back by seconds, then what does that actually tell us?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:19 am 
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mds wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
With 1 seat vacant, the obvious choice would be Button but it depends how much progress Honda would make by Abu Dhabi for Button to give it a serious thought.


Button has retired and will be 38 next season. He is far from an obvious choice.
That aside, Alonso said a few days ago that Button wasn't all that excited to be racing in Monaco. Making it even more unlikely.


Isn't he an obvious choice for most of us out here?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:46 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
mds wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
With 1 seat vacant, the obvious choice would be Button but it depends how much progress Honda would make by Abu Dhabi for Button to give it a serious thought.


Button has retired and will be 38 next season. He is far from an obvious choice.
That aside, Alonso said a few days ago that Button wasn't all that excited to be racing in Monaco. Making it even more unlikely.


Isn't he an obvious choice for most of us out here?


Maybe he is the obvious choice for McLaren, but from his side I don't think it's that obvious given the reasons above.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:27 am 
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mds wrote:
Exediron wrote:
And they were much closer to the pace at the front than at any point in the preseason as well.

Well yeah... But if those at the front were holding back by seconds, then what does that actually tell us?

Not much. I was just refuting the statement that they were no better at the last test than in the preseason testing, whereas I think they were significantly better. They were never even remotely close to the pace of the top teams in preseason - and the top teams were holding back plenty in the preseason testing too.

Things aren't great for McLaren or Honda, but that doesn't give people a license to go handing out whatever exaggerations they can cook up. There's plenty of real negatives to be found without making up more.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:55 am 
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I agree. Last test was definitely more positive than anything before.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:50 am 
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Covalent wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Well, all the drivers are saying how much more fun these cars are to drive, so it's not impossible that Button's interest may be rekindled if he enjoys his taste in Monaco

But...there's a bit of a Catch-22 here. Button will likely only get a drive if Alonso leaves McLaren. And Alonso is only likely to leave McLaren if Honda can't sort out their issues again. So will Button want to come back only to drive around the back of the pack? I doubt it. And if the car is good, then there likely won't be a place for Button anyway.

So in short, I think it's unlikely

On the other hand if Alonso does leave them they're likely to be championship contenders the next season :-P

I know you're being facetious here but this is a myth that needs to die off.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:59 am 
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GingerFurball wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Well, all the drivers are saying how much more fun these cars are to drive, so it's not impossible that Button's interest may be rekindled if he enjoys his taste in Monaco

But...there's a bit of a Catch-22 here. Button will likely only get a drive if Alonso leaves McLaren. And Alonso is only likely to leave McLaren if Honda can't sort out their issues again. So will Button want to come back only to drive around the back of the pack? I doubt it. And if the car is good, then there likely won't be a place for Button anyway.

So in short, I think it's unlikely

On the other hand if Alonso does leave them they're likely to be championship contenders the next season :-P

I know you're being facetious here but this is a myth that needs to die off.


What myth? Alonso has made some bad career decisions and has ended up in the wrong place for the past 10 years, this is just a lighthearted joke that references this...

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:13 am 
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Other than McLaren in 2008 (hardly surprising given the regulation stability), can you name me a team Alonso has left that has then immediately challenged for titles?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:17 am 
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Why do I need to? It's a joke for crying out loud.

"but it's not a good one". OK, then don't laugh.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:00 am 
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Yes it was supposed to be a light hearted joke, but there is a pattern that I don't think any other can replicate?

When looking at the WCC, Minardi was better off before Alonso joined them. They were also better off after he left them.
McLaren were better off before Alonso joined them. They were also better off after he left them.
Renault (stint 1) were the same before Alonso joined them, but worse after he left them.
Renault (stint 2) were better off before Alonso joined them. They were also better off after he left them.
Ferrari were better off after Alonso joined them, but also better off after he left them.
McLaren were better off before Alonso joined them.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:49 pm 
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all would do better - if certain drivers
joined - including ricciardo in 2014 etc


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:58 pm 
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Button certainly sounds content to stay retired thus far, but I wouldn't rule out McLaren retaining him in the same capacity for next year -- especially if Alonso is planning on sitting out a race to compete in the Indy500 and/or LeMans. I don't get the impression that he would be willing to return full time even if things aligned. Given how happy he seems with retirement and his age, I'd be quite surprised if he does end up making a full-time return to F1.

As far as racing in general goes, I also wouldn't be at all surprised if he picks up a seat in another series... but that probably wouldn't be directly related to racing in Monaco.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:48 pm 
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Mclaren are in a poor position here. First up, I don't see Button being the regular driver. This leaves the question of who?

I don't see Honda being desperate to keep Alonso after his behaviour towards their engine, it is an insult even of it is correct.

Mclaren really have no idea how good Van is. He has tested yes, and raced once. This is probably not enough to put the farm on if Alonso goes, so a driver like Stroll in the other car is probably a non starter. Occon is tied up, as are the RBR drivers, except possibly Kvyat. Hulk would have been perfect, but...

I think Mclaren are backed into a corner and have little choice but to try to keep the drivers they have, so letting Alonso do the indy is probably a bribe to behave.

The next step? Button / Alonso / A.N. OTHER (A.R?) from indy in a Le Mans?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:30 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Well, all the drivers are saying how much more fun these cars are to drive, so it's not impossible that Button's interest may be rekindled if he enjoys his taste in Monaco

But...there's a bit of a Catch-22 here. Button will likely only get a drive if Alonso leaves McLaren. And Alonso is only likely to leave McLaren if Honda can't sort out their issues again. So will Button want to come back only to drive around the back of the pack? I doubt it. And if the car is good, then there likely won't be a place for Button anyway.

So in short, I think it's unlikely

But how would Alonso know if Honda has sorted out the issues, before the testing for 2018 starts? I think before they started testing this year, everything looked good on the dyno, but it wasn't until they hit the track when issues started to manifest. Alonso will need to make up his mind probably well before even the end of this season, so there's no way for him to know at what level Honda might be next year.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:37 am 
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froze wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Well, all the drivers are saying how much more fun these cars are to drive, so it's not impossible that Button's interest may be rekindled if he enjoys his taste in Monaco

But...there's a bit of a Catch-22 here. Button will likely only get a drive if Alonso leaves McLaren. And Alonso is only likely to leave McLaren if Honda can't sort out their issues again. So will Button want to come back only to drive around the back of the pack? I doubt it. And if the car is good, then there likely won't be a place for Button anyway.

So in short, I think it's unlikely

But how would Alonso know if Honda has sorted out the issues, before the testing for 2018 starts? I think before they started testing this year, everything looked good on the dyno, but it wasn't until they hit the track when issues started to manifest. Alonso will need to make up his mind probably well before even the end of this season, so there's no way for him to know at what level Honda might be next year.


Typically for any driver making a team change, he'll have already signed for another team (probably Renault)!

Don't driver negotiations begin before Spa during the break?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:48 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
froze wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Well, all the drivers are saying how much more fun these cars are to drive, so it's not impossible that Button's interest may be rekindled if he enjoys his taste in Monaco

But...there's a bit of a Catch-22 here. Button will likely only get a drive if Alonso leaves McLaren. And Alonso is only likely to leave McLaren if Honda can't sort out their issues again. So will Button want to come back only to drive around the back of the pack? I doubt it. And if the car is good, then there likely won't be a place for Button anyway.

So in short, I think it's unlikely

But how would Alonso know if Honda has sorted out the issues, before the testing for 2018 starts? I think before they started testing this year, everything looked good on the dyno, but it wasn't until they hit the track when issues started to manifest. Alonso will need to make up his mind probably well before even the end of this season, so there's no way for him to know at what level Honda might be next year.


Typically for any driver making a team change, he'll have already signed for another team (probably Renault)!

Don't driver negotiations begin before Spa during the break?

To me, him returning to Renault just doesn't make any sense, at least not yet.
As Merc and RBR are set and Ferrari return is probably impossible, my best guess is that he will make a deal with Mclaren with some kind of performance clause that will allow him to race in Indycar in case the car will turn out to be dog again. Button will then have a similar contract for next year as he has for this year, and after the 1st winter testing Honda engines again start to go tits up, Alonso says hasta la vista to go to Indycar, and in jumps Button.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:12 pm 
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Button in Indy Cars next year??


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Forget 2018, if this keeps up I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso walks out before the end of the season and Jenson has to step in. If it really was just an ERS issue today as was being suggested over the team radio then there was no reason for Alonso to park it on the track like he did. It looked like an act of frustration to me.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:06 pm 
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I really can't see Alonso finishing the season, even racing in Spain is doubtful! If Button has a good Monaco Grand Prix then he'll probably finish the season and do 2018 in the McLaren but if not then Boullier will be frantically looking for a driver and will struggle to get even an established driver.


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 9:50 am 
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paulpinckston wrote:
With Alonso doing the indy 500 and Jenson the Monaco gp, will Monaco rekindle his desire to race? Especially as Alonso will most likely quit McLaren if Honda don't sort it out! I think there's a very good chance that JB will return, especially if he does OK at Monaco in that pig of a car!


I hope not, for his own sanity check.

Why would anyone take on that McLaren right now. Let's face it only reason why he's coming for Monaco is most likely due to a contract he currently holds. For McLaren I don't think it's a bad thing to see where Button ends up with that car but he has been out of it for some months.

So yes, If I was JB I'd say no chance in hell not unless McLaren Honda have a miracle up their sleeve but in all honesty I gave up with that 12 months ago.


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 7:27 am 
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his stint at Monaco may not last long and its doubtful it will rekindle much unless Honda find 100 bhp extra all of a sudden and some reliability- I just hope he doesn't do a pascal


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 7:46 am 
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Covalent wrote:
Yes it was supposed to be a light hearted joke, but there is a pattern that I don't think any other can replicate?

When looking at the WCC, Minardi was better off before Alonso joined them. They were also better off after he left them.
McLaren were better off before Alonso joined them. They were also better off after he left them.
Renault (stint 1) were the same before Alonso joined them, but worse after he left them.
Renault (stint 2) were better off before Alonso joined them. They were also better off after he left them.
Ferrari were better off after Alonso joined them, but also better off after he left them.
McLaren were better off before Alonso joined them.


So basically, what you're saying is, is that Alonso brings a team down.

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