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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 3:17 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
They could keep Massa as a safe and reliable option and ditch the youngster for any available prospect, like Sainz, or likewise. Perhaps even Wehrlein.

They will not ditch £ance $tro££.

I see what you did there :)

Unfortunately I have no euro button for the 'e'. :)

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 12th

Wins: Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 3:19 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
ALESI wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
kleefton wrote:
I just think alonso would crush hulk on sundays. On saturdays it would be very interesting.


Hulk is more of a smooth driver, which always helps in qualifying.

Alonso (and perez) are quite aggressive in their driving styles. They like to take risks to gain a place whereas Hulk prefers to be safe rather than sorry. He may be more consistent but may be stuck in that same position in the race. How many overtakes have we seen overall of Hulk?


Ah, but that is the mark of a modern F1 driver. If you qualify the car to it's full potential, you won't overtake anyone will you? That's as true for a midfield runner as it is for Vett/Ham/etc... and the team would probably prefer you bring the car home in the points every week rather than take silly risks, because points mean prizes. Which is probably why reliable but unspectacular drivers like Hulk have long careers, while the risky drivers either rise or fall.


TBF Hulk beat Perez 11/9 in quali last year so hardly a dominant display.I don't see him as a good enough qualifier to really worry Alonso.

Yep past performance would see Alonso out qualifying the Hulk more often than not.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 12th

Wins: Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 3:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 21686
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
They could keep Massa as a safe and reliable option and ditch the youngster for any available prospect, like Sainz, or likewise. Perhaps even Wehrlein.

They will not ditch £ance $tro££.

I see what you did there :)

Unfortunately I have no euro button for the 'e'. :)

Have you tried Ctrl+alt+4? (on top row of keys, not numeric keypad)


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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 3:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 24867
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
They could keep Massa as a safe and reliable option and ditch the youngster for any available prospect, like Sainz, or likewise. Perhaps even Wehrlein.

They will not ditch £ance $tro££.

I see what you did there :)

Unfortunately I have no euro button for the 'e'. :)

Have you tried Ctrl+alt+4? (on top row of keys, not numeric keypad)

€ cheers :thumbup:

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 12th

Wins: Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 3:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 21686
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
pokerman wrote:
They will not ditch £ance $tro££.

I see what you did there :)

Unfortunately I have no euro button for the 'e'. :)

Have you tried Ctrl+alt+4? (on top row of keys, not numeric keypad)

€ cheers :thumbup:

No problem. Live in Euroland so it gets regular use :)


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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 5:47 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:14 pm
Posts: 3077
mikeyg123 wrote:
ALESI wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
kleefton wrote:
I just think alonso would crush hulk on sundays. On saturdays it would be very interesting.


Hulk is more of a smooth driver, which always helps in qualifying.

Alonso (and perez) are quite aggressive in their driving styles. They like to take risks to gain a place whereas Hulk prefers to be safe rather than sorry. He may be more consistent but may be stuck in that same position in the race. How many overtakes have we seen overall of Hulk?


Ah, but that is the mark of a modern F1 driver. If you qualify the car to it's full potential, you won't overtake anyone will you? That's as true for a midfield runner as it is for Vett/Ham/etc... and the team would probably prefer you bring the car home in the points every week rather than take silly risks, because points mean prizes. Which is probably why reliable but unspectacular drivers like Hulk have long careers, while the risky drivers either rise or fall.


TBF Hulk beat Perez 11/9 in quali last year so hardly a dominant display.I don't see him as a good enough qualifier to really worry Alonso.


During their 3 years together Hulk has dominated qualifying against Perez, we can't just look at last year and disregard the years before. Even Perez has said in the past that Hulk has made him a better driver. Hulk is extremely quick on one lap. Race pace? not so much.


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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 6:21 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:53 am
Posts: 535
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Unfortunately I have no euro button for the 'e'. :)

Have you tried Ctrl+alt+4? (on top row of keys, not numeric keypad)

€ cheers :thumbup:

No problem. Live in Euroland so it gets regular use :)

What the hell, you two are in agreement :-P :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 7:20 pm 
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Location: Michigan, USA
kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
TBF Hulk beat Perez 11/9 in quali last year so hardly a dominant display.I don't see him as a good enough qualifier to really worry Alonso.

During their 3 years together Hulk has dominated qualifying against Perez, we can't just look at last year and disregard the years before. Even Perez has said in the past that Hulk has made him a better driver. Hulk is extremely quick on one lap. Race pace? not so much.

Based on their time together, Perez and Button were pretty evenly matched in qualifying. Since Alonso averaged about .25 seconds faster than Button in qualifying, I expect he'd have a similar advantage over Perez, and hence at least some advantage over Hulk. I don't know the qualifying gap on average between the Force India boys, but I'd be surprised if it was that much in Hulk's favor.

_________________
PF1 PICK 10 COMPETITION (3 wins, 12 podiums): 2017: 19th| 2016: 3rd| 2015: 4th
PF1 TOP THREE TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): 2017: 2nd| 2015: 1st
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 United States Champion! (world #2)


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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 10:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:41 am
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Location: Toronto, Canada
What is Williams doing? To me it seems they have done an excellent job at turning their operation into a profitable one that can stay in existence. The cost of that, no pun intended, is that they are a midfield team with no hope of a title.


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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 4:46 am 
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Posts: 2546
robins13 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Unfortunately I have no euro button for the 'e'. :)
Have you tried Ctrl+alt+4? (on top row of keys, not numeric keypad)
€ cheers :thumbup:
No problem. Live in Euroland so it gets regular use :)
What the hell, you two are in agreement :-P :lol:
I find myself wondering whether anyone living in the UK will have that keyboard shortcut removed from the PC once Brexit is complete!

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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 8:07 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 12942
kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
ALESI wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
kleefton wrote:
I just think alonso would crush hulk on sundays. On saturdays it would be very interesting.


Hulk is more of a smooth driver, which always helps in qualifying.

Alonso (and perez) are quite aggressive in their driving styles. They like to take risks to gain a place whereas Hulk prefers to be safe rather than sorry. He may be more consistent but may be stuck in that same position in the race. How many overtakes have we seen overall of Hulk?


Ah, but that is the mark of a modern F1 driver. If you qualify the car to it's full potential, you won't overtake anyone will you? That's as true for a midfield runner as it is for Vett/Ham/etc... and the team would probably prefer you bring the car home in the points every week rather than take silly risks, because points mean prizes. Which is probably why reliable but unspectacular drivers like Hulk have long careers, while the risky drivers either rise or fall.


TBF Hulk beat Perez 11/9 in quali last year so hardly a dominant display.I don't see him as a good enough qualifier to really worry Alonso.


During their 3 years together Hulk has dominated qualifying against Perez, we can't just look at last year and disregard the years before. Even Perez has said in the past that Hulk has made him a better driver. Hulk is extremely quick on one lap. Race pace? not so much.


It was 11/8 to Hulk in 2015 - Still hardly a dominant affair. In 2014 it was 12/7. That's the only year you could describe it as anything approaching dominant.

34/24 is obviously clearly good but I wouldn't describe it as dominant in anyway. I think you are overstating it.


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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 11:43 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 24867
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
I see what you did there :)

Unfortunately I have no euro button for the 'e'. :)

Have you tried Ctrl+alt+4? (on top row of keys, not numeric keypad)

€ cheers :thumbup:

No problem. Live in Euroland so it gets regular use :)

I just thought that people had a different type of keyboard. :blush:

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 12th

Wins: Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 1:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 21686
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Unfortunately I have no euro button for the 'e'. :)

Have you tried Ctrl+alt+4? (on top row of keys, not numeric keypad)

€ cheers :thumbup:

No problem. Live in Euroland so it gets regular use :)

I just thought that people had a different type of keyboard. :blush:

they do, to be fair. But I'm using a UK configuration as I'm used to it, which works with that key combo 8)

I have a € on my Number 5, but that doesn't work while the keyboard is configured as UK. And my " produces a @, while my @ key gives me a "! You get used to it :D

Oh, and alt+0128 (ASCII code) using the numbered keypad will also give you a € - depends what you're more comfortable with


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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 1:18 pm 
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Posts: 3077
mikeyg123 wrote:
It was 11/8 to Hulk in 2015 - Still hardly a dominant affair. In 2014 it was 12/7. That's the only year you could describe it as anything approaching dominant.

34/24 is obviously clearly good but I wouldn't describe it as dominant in anyway. I think you are overstating it.


I guess, if you look at it year by year it helps your argument a bit. But to me I look at it as he outqualified him soundly every year and the end result of that is Hulk being ahead by a good margin. I didn't even check what the official tally was, but just by recollection of watching the races it always seemed that Hulk started ahead in qualifying and finished behind Checo in the races. So I suspect the official numbers don't tell the real story. Maybe Hulk had more technical issues overall.


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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 1:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 24867
kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
ALESI wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
kleefton wrote:
I just think alonso would crush hulk on sundays. On saturdays it would be very interesting.


Hulk is more of a smooth driver, which always helps in qualifying.

Alonso (and perez) are quite aggressive in their driving styles. They like to take risks to gain a place whereas Hulk prefers to be safe rather than sorry. He may be more consistent but may be stuck in that same position in the race. How many overtakes have we seen overall of Hulk?


Ah, but that is the mark of a modern F1 driver. If you qualify the car to it's full potential, you won't overtake anyone will you? That's as true for a midfield runner as it is for Vett/Ham/etc... and the team would probably prefer you bring the car home in the points every week rather than take silly risks, because points mean prizes. Which is probably why reliable but unspectacular drivers like Hulk have long careers, while the risky drivers either rise or fall.


TBF Hulk beat Perez 11/9 in quali last year so hardly a dominant display.I don't see him as a good enough qualifier to really worry Alonso.


During their 3 years together Hulk has dominated qualifying against Perez, we can't just look at last year and disregard the years before. Even Perez has said in the past that Hulk has made him a better driver. Hulk is extremely quick on one lap. Race pace? not so much.

As some might know I like to compile qualifying data to see who is the fastest driver over 1 lap, the Hulk and Perez were teammates for 3 years so plenty of data to look at here, what in fact may be a bit unusual with these two is how consistent the gap was year on year:-

2014: Hulk 0.04s quicker
2015: Hulk 0.04s quicker
2016: Hulk 0.03s quicker

Overall qualifying (dry and no technical problems): Hulk 27 - 21 Perez

So no the Hulk didn't dominate Perez in qualifying, the fact is that it was very close between the two of them.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 12th

Wins: Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 1:21 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:14 pm
Posts: 3077
Exediron wrote:
kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
TBF Hulk beat Perez 11/9 in quali last year so hardly a dominant display.I don't see him as a good enough qualifier to really worry Alonso.

During their 3 years together Hulk has dominated qualifying against Perez, we can't just look at last year and disregard the years before. Even Perez has said in the past that Hulk has made him a better driver. Hulk is extremely quick on one lap. Race pace? not so much.

Based on their time together, Perez and Button were pretty evenly matched in qualifying. Since Alonso averaged about .25 seconds faster than Button in qualifying, I expect he'd have a similar advantage over Perez, and hence at least some advantage over Hulk. I don't know the qualifying gap on average between the Force India boys, but I'd be surprised if it was that much in Hulk's favor.


Button only started falling off against Alonso since last summer, after it was announced he was leaving. Before that he was pretty close, especially in 2015, when it was hard to give either driver the edge.


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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 1:31 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:14 pm
Posts: 3077
pokerman wrote:
As some might know I like to compile qualifying data to see who is the fastest driver over 1 lap, the Hulk and Perez were teammates for 3 years so plenty of data to look at here, what in fact may be a bit unusual with these two is how consistent the gap was year on year:-

2014: Hulk 0.04s quicker
2015: Hulk 0.04s quicker
2016: Hulk 0.03s quicker

Overall qualifying (dry and no technical problems): Hulk 27 - 21 Perez

So no the Hulk didn't dominate Perez in qualifying, the fact is that it was very close between the two of them.


Not sure about what formula you are using but that does seem extremely close and if it's that close Perez would have won the battle at least one of these years you would think. But yet he lost every year. I will have to look closer at the data and see what I find.


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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 1:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 24867
Exediron wrote:
kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
TBF Hulk beat Perez 11/9 in quali last year so hardly a dominant display.I don't see him as a good enough qualifier to really worry Alonso.

During their 3 years together Hulk has dominated qualifying against Perez, we can't just look at last year and disregard the years before. Even Perez has said in the past that Hulk has made him a better driver. Hulk is extremely quick on one lap. Race pace? not so much.

Based on their time together, Perez and Button were pretty evenly matched in qualifying. Since Alonso averaged about .25 seconds faster than Button in qualifying, I expect he'd have a similar advantage over Perez, and hence at least some advantage over Hulk. I don't know the qualifying gap on average between the Force India boys, but I'd be surprised if it was that much in Hulk's favor.

I'm not sure what figures you use to make Alonso 0.25s faster than Button, I guess for starters you are totally ignoring the 2015 season which would drop the average down somewhat, even if I use just the 2016 season I make Alonso 0.17s quicker.

From my post above the Hulk was 0.04s quicker than Perez whilst Button averaged 0.06s quicker than Perez.

So that would make Alonso at max 0.19s quicker than the Hulk but that's not really averaging out the fluctuations we saw between Button and Alonso, with that in mind I would put Alonso at 0.15s quicker than the Hulk.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 12th

Wins: Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Last edited by pokerman on Sat May 06, 2017 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 1:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 24867
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Have you tried Ctrl+alt+4? (on top row of keys, not numeric keypad)

€ cheers :thumbup:

No problem. Live in Euroland so it gets regular use :)

I just thought that people had a different type of keyboard. :blush:

they do, to be fair. But I'm using a UK configuration as I'm used to it, which works with that key combo 8)

I have a € on my Number 5, but that doesn't work while the keyboard is configured as UK. And my " produces a @, while my @ key gives me a "! You get used to it :D

Oh, and alt+0128 (ASCII code) using the numbered keypad will also give you a € - depends what you're more comfortable with

I'll stick to what you originally gave me, I'm easily confused. :lol:

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 12th

Wins: Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 1:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 24867
kleefton wrote:
pokerman wrote:
As some might know I like to compile qualifying data to see who is the fastest driver over 1 lap, the Hulk and Perez were teammates for 3 years so plenty of data to look at here, what in fact may be a bit unusual with these two is how consistent the gap was year on year:-

2014: Hulk 0.04s quicker
2015: Hulk 0.04s quicker
2016: Hulk 0.03s quicker

Overall qualifying (dry and no technical problems): Hulk 27 - 21 Perez

So no the Hulk didn't dominate Perez in qualifying, the fact is that it was very close between the two of them.


Not sure about what formula you are using but that does seem extremely close and if it's that close Perez would have won the battle at least one of these years you would think. But yet he lost every year. I will have to look closer at the data and see what I find.

He did lose every year but it was always close, 8-5, 9-7, 10-9, dry qualifying with neither driver having issues.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 12th

Wins: Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 9:44 pm 
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Location: Michigan, USA
pokerman wrote:
I'm not sure what figures you use to make Alonso 0.25s faster than Button, I guess for starters you are totally ignoring the 2015 season which would drop the average down somewhat, even if I use just the 2016 season I make Alonso 0.17s quicker.

From my post above the Hulk was 0.04s quicker than Perez whilst Button averaged 0.06s quicker than Perez.

So that would make Alonso at max 0.19s quicker than the Hulk but that's not really averaging out the fluctuations we saw between Button and Alonso, with that in mind I would put Alonso at 0.15s quicker than the Hulk.

Just memory. I typed up a lengthy analysis of Button vs. Alonso qualifying in 2016 a while ago, in a thread I'm sure you were part of. I remember that I concluded his average advantage was somewhere around 2 tenths, but I didn't actually remember the number. As for your .17 figure, I seem to remember I don't agree with how you chose which data points to exclude, but I don't recall why specifically.

Either way, it's a moot point. If you think Button was 0.02 seconds quicker than Hulk, you presumably agree that Alonso would be expected to soundly beat Hulk in qualifying like he did Button.

kleefton wrote:
Button only started falling off against Alonso since last summer, after it was announced he was leaving. Before that he was pretty close, especially in 2015, when it was hard to give either driver the edge.

That's debatable in terms of the races, but not in terms of qualifying. Alonso dominated Button in qualifying throughout the whole of 2016. In 2015 I grant you it was closer, although unreliability made it less statistically significant.

_________________
PF1 PICK 10 COMPETITION (3 wins, 12 podiums): 2017: 19th| 2016: 3rd| 2015: 4th
PF1 TOP THREE TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): 2017: 2nd| 2015: 1st
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 United States Champion! (world #2)


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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 1:03 am 
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Posts: 24867
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I'm not sure what figures you use to make Alonso 0.25s faster than Button, I guess for starters you are totally ignoring the 2015 season which would drop the average down somewhat, even if I use just the 2016 season I make Alonso 0.17s quicker.

From my post above the Hulk was 0.04s quicker than Perez whilst Button averaged 0.06s quicker than Perez.

So that would make Alonso at max 0.19s quicker than the Hulk but that's not really averaging out the fluctuations we saw between Button and Alonso, with that in mind I would put Alonso at 0.15s quicker than the Hulk.

Just memory. I typed up a lengthy analysis of Button vs. Alonso qualifying in 2016 a while ago, in a thread I'm sure you were part of. I remember that I concluded his average advantage was somewhere around 2 tenths, but I didn't actually remember the number. As for your .17 figure, I seem to remember I don't agree with how you chose which data points to exclude, but I don't recall why specifically.

Either way, it's a moot point. If you think Button was 0.02 seconds quicker than Hulk, you presumably agree that Alonso would be expected to soundly beat Hulk in qualifying like he did Button.

kleefton wrote:
Button only started falling off against Alonso since last summer, after it was announced he was leaving. Before that he was pretty close, especially in 2015, when it was hard to give either driver the edge.

That's debatable in terms of the races, but not in terms of qualifying. Alonso dominated Button in qualifying throughout the whole of 2016. In 2015 I grant you it was closer, although unreliability made it less statistically significant.

Well I've already said that Alonso should beat the Hulk in qualifying by my figures, poor young Vandoorne is presently getting thrashed by Alonso in a car that is very similar to the 2015 car in terms of performance and reliability, at the end of the season might we say the beating never really happened because of the car and write this season off like the 2015 season seemingly has been written off?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 12th

Wins: Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 1:35 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I'm not sure what figures you use to make Alonso 0.25s faster than Button, I guess for starters you are totally ignoring the 2015 season which would drop the average down somewhat, even if I use just the 2016 season I make Alonso 0.17s quicker.

From my post above the Hulk was 0.04s quicker than Perez whilst Button averaged 0.06s quicker than Perez.

So that would make Alonso at max 0.19s quicker than the Hulk but that's not really averaging out the fluctuations we saw between Button and Alonso, with that in mind I would put Alonso at 0.15s quicker than the Hulk.

Just memory. I typed up a lengthy analysis of Button vs. Alonso qualifying in 2016 a while ago, in a thread I'm sure you were part of. I remember that I concluded his average advantage was somewhere around 2 tenths, but I didn't actually remember the number. As for your .17 figure, I seem to remember I don't agree with how you chose which data points to exclude, but I don't recall why specifically.

Either way, it's a moot point. If you think Button was 0.02 seconds quicker than Hulk, you presumably agree that Alonso would be expected to soundly beat Hulk in qualifying like he did Button.

kleefton wrote:
Button only started falling off against Alonso since last summer, after it was announced he was leaving. Before that he was pretty close, especially in 2015, when it was hard to give either driver the edge.

That's debatable in terms of the races, but not in terms of qualifying. Alonso dominated Button in qualifying throughout the whole of 2016. In 2015 I grant you it was closer, although unreliability made it less statistically significant.

Well I've already said that Alonso should beat the Hulk in qualifying by my figures, poor young Vandoorne is presently getting thrashed by Alonso in a car that is very similar to the 2015 car in terms of performance and reliability, at the end of the season might we say the beating never really happened because of the car and write this season off like the 2015 season seemingly has been written off?


But very different in terms of what the drivers are being asked to do. The gearshifts are all over the place depending on whether they want to short shift to control torque and help driveability or have long upshifts to stay above frequency resonance.

There was 2 threads where both Exediron and I went through the Alo-JB Qualy battle with you, but you never showed your results. I think you were counting or discounting different results to us. For example I think you counted AD in 2015, did you?.

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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 2:38 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Well I've already said that Alonso should beat the Hulk in qualifying by my figures, poor young Vandoorne is presently getting thrashed by Alonso in a car that is very similar to the 2015 car in terms of performance and reliability, at the end of the season might we say the beating never really happened because of the car and write this season off like the 2015 season seemingly has been written off?

Based on the season so far, I would indeed by happy to throw it out with regards to Alonso/Vandoorne comparisons. They're running different modes to gather data, they've yet to both finish a race, and who knows what's going wrong with the car behind the scenes. I don't doubt that Alonso really is the faster of the two at present, but I do suspect the gap is not representative.

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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:08 pm 
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With Massa retiring, do we now have a new game of musical chairs??? We know that Lance Stroll is on a pay to play contract for the second Williams seat and now the first seat seems to be empty. So who is going to fill that seat and where will they come from??? Who are the candidates?


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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:05 am 
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I think Ericsson maybe a bit of a stalking horse here. He is over 25 and well backed.


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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:21 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I think Ericsson maybe a bit of a stalking horse here. He is over 25 and well backed.


Stroll already brings backing. William's aren't in the desperate situation of needing two 'pay drivers' surely? Pascal might have a sniff even though his reputation has faltered somewhat.


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 Post subject: Re: Williams in 2018
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:04 pm 
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Locking this because for some reason the forum software won't let me merge topics that have been used in the last week, and there's a longer discussion in the other thread.

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