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Are F1 Drivers the Best in the World?
F1 drivers are the very best in the world. 21%  21%  [ 15 ]
F1 drivers are the very best open wheel drivers. 31%  31%  [ 22 ]
F1 drivers are the very best road racers. 6%  6%  [ 4 ]
F1 drivers are good, but not always the best. 30%  30%  [ 21 ]
F1 drivers are overrated. 11%  11%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 70
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 Post subject: Are F1 Drivers the Best?
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 12:38 pm 
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Often you hear the comment made that the very best drivers in the world are in Formula 1. I've never disagreed with this, but now I'm reconsidering. The reason for this is that I was watching some WRC (Rallying) videos on youtube and have been absolutely astounded at the skill and bravery that those drivers demonstrate. It is beyond amazing. So, I thought it would be good to poll the group and see what everyone else thinks. This is not a F1 vs WRC poll. It could be any other series of drivers.


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 12:44 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
Often you hear the comment made that the very best drivers in the world are in Formula 1. I've never disagreed with this, but now I'm reconsidering. The reason for this is that I was watching some WRC (Rallying) videos on youtube and have been absolutely astounded at the skill and bravery that those drivers demonstrate. It is beyond amazing. So, I thought it would be good to poll the group and see what everyone else thinks. This is not a F1 vs WRC poll. It could be any other series of drivers.


I think if you put a very good rally driver in a good but not the best F1 car then I doubt he would be a regular point scorer. We know when the situation is reversed the F1 driver can score minor points regularly.


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 2:31 pm 
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The best drivers in F1, are the best drivers in the world.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 2:36 pm 
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I dont really know the answer to this. But very few drivers have been able to make transformation from other class to F1 and succeed. And by few, I mean people you can count with the fingers of one hand.

But lot of F1 drivers have managed to have successful careers in other motorsport classes. The sheer speed and reflexes needed to succeed at the sharp end of F1 driving at more than 300km/d on proper race tracks on complex cars will make them naturally good at many other motorsports. But driver has to learn the racecraft, different lines, different demands of that other sport as well.

And hence the dilemma. But one thing is sure. The current crop of drivers we have in F1 right now are some of the very best in the world. Sure, there are 1 or 2 lemons but very inexperienced lemons. Almost everyone else is capable of winning in top teams and probably good enough to drive in any other class of 4 wheel racing.


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 3:03 pm 
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In the time when there was 40+ places for drivers per season, there were cases where certain drivers obviously did not deliver, and were not up to the task. Now, with 22-24 (with replacements) there is practically no chance for someone who is not really good, to get the seat.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 3:18 pm 
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I think Robert Kubica might have a few interesting comments to make on that subject. He and Sébastien Loeb were the two first names to pop into my head.
Also, I remember when Alain Prost tried a few rallies, and said that this kind of driving was a lot more intuitive, which was opposite to how he wanted to go racing.
This makes it hard to say that the best drivers are automatically those in F1 - and regular forum members know I believe Prost to be the best driver I've ever seen in action myself. Which turns the question around to how we define "best".

If pushed for an answer, I would vote "No", but it isn't as easy as that.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 3:23 pm 
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For me this question falls firmly in the "does it really matter/who cares" realm.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 3:32 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
I think Robert Kubica might have a few interesting comments to make on that subject. He and Sébastien Loeb were the two first names to pop into my head.
Also, I remember when Alain Prost tried a few rallies, and said that this kind of driving was a lot more intuitive, which was opposite to how he wanted to go racing.
This makes it hard to say that the best drivers are automatically those in F1 - and regular forum members know I believe Prost to be the best driver I've ever seen in action myself. Which turns the question around to how we define "best".

If pushed for an answer, I would vote "No", but it isn't as easy as that.

This random guy also tried some:

Image
http://www.ayrtonsenna.com.br/en/piloto/provas-especiais/o-dia-em-que-ayrton-senna-testou-carros-de-rali-na-europa/


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 3:36 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
For me this question falls firmly in the "does it really matter/who cares" realm.

True, just food for somewhat meaningless conversation. There is no quantitative measurement of driving talent as such, and the only thing that pits drivers from different disciplines against each other is the ROC.


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 3:38 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
I think Robert Kubica might have a few interesting comments to make on that subject. He and Sébastien Loeb were the two first names to pop into my head.
Also, I remember when Alain Prost tried a few rallies, and said that this kind of driving was a lot more intuitive, which was opposite to how he wanted to go racing.
This makes it hard to say that the best drivers are automatically those in F1 - and regular forum members know I believe Prost to be the best driver I've ever seen in action myself. Which turns the question around to how we define "best".

If pushed for an answer, I would vote "No", but it isn't as easy as that.

This random guy also tried some:

Image
http://www.ayrtonsenna.com.br/en/piloto/provas-especiais/o-dia-em-que-ayrton-senna-testou-carros-de-rali-na-europa/
I remember this chap! :D He also tested an IndyCar Penske. Do you remember what he thought on the subject under discussion? I have to admit I don't.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 3:51 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
I think Robert Kubica might have a few interesting comments to make on that subject. He and Sébastien Loeb were the two first names to pop into my head.
Also, I remember when Alain Prost tried a few rallies, and said that this kind of driving was a lot more intuitive, which was opposite to how he wanted to go racing.
This makes it hard to say that the best drivers are automatically those in F1 - and regular forum members know I believe Prost to be the best driver I've ever seen in action myself. Which turns the question around to how we define "best".

If pushed for an answer, I would vote "No", but it isn't as easy as that.

This random guy also tried some:

[img]Random dude[img]
http://www.ayrtonsenna.com.br/en/piloto/provas-especiais/o-dia-em-que-ayrton-senna-testou-carros-de-rali-na-europa/
I remember this chap! :D He also tested an IndyCar Penske. Do you remember what he thought on the subject under discussion? I have to admit I don't.

Nah, can't remember to be honest. I think he messed it up in the very first corner of his test. Then he was quite fast apparently!


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 4:46 pm 
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Warheart01 wrote:
The best drivers in F1, are the best drivers in the world.

This is pretty much my opinion as well. The top tier F1 drivers have no betters in the world, and I do very much think the average quality of the F1 field is the highest in the world as well.

The average F1 driver is probably still better than the average driver of any other series, but it would be unrealistic to say the average driver in F1 is better than the best of other categories.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 4:52 pm 
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First off, we are generalizing, and forming our opinions without hard data. If fans could access team's telemetry, then we could begin to understand.

In racing there are many different disciplines that come together in the cockpit, from sensing wheel lockup to braking, to who can find the traction limit while accelerating hard out of a tight corner. To complicate matters even further, this is an era of uber-specialization, drivers go from diapers into their respective car types. There are economic factors in play too. For example Jeff Gordon from NASCAR made a heck of a lot more total income than just about anyone in Formula One, notwithstanding Michael Schumacher. So why should he even ponder an open wheel career?

The path to Formula One is a tricky one, fraught with obstacles and land mines. Every driver who arrives in Formula One has to spend most of their lives devoted towards Formula One, collect sponsors along the way, and also negotiate the politics of the sport. Long gone are the days when anyone could show up and get an opportunity. So we can not state with any definitive authority that the best drivers in the world are all in Formula One. They have darn good drivers, maybe one of them is "the one", but we have no way to determine this definitively.

IMO there are over a thousand drivers who have the skill and potential to be in Formula one.

Here are two drivers who were the best of their generation. Both did drive in Formula One but not much because of the nasty politics of Formula One and the simple fact they could find happiness and a respectable income outside of Formula One

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http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bIJkH9dKMzA/UBFPssYEciI/AAAAAAAAAlE/y9oD8iulxJA/s640/006-Brian-Redman-with-Jacky-Ickx-2.jpg

And Fangio would never have been in Formula One if he had been born in today's era.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 5:20 pm 
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They are the best road/tarmac/track racing drivers, rally for example is a completely different world, you just can't compare both


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 7:23 pm 
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The best F1 drivers are definitely among the best drivers out there. I would say the best rally drivers fill out the rest of the group.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 9:05 pm 
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I think for the most part they are but I voted not always because you have pay drivers who are not so good but have a seat because of money.


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 10:00 pm 
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This is a hard one, there are too many factors to consider. I think about driver like Shane Van Gisbergen, who is strong in every category he races in. In an interview they asked him why he didn't follow the path to F1, because his Engineer said he had the skill set. He said at 1.88m and 99kg he always thought he'd be too big for F1.

So to be the best in F1, not only do you need the talent, but you also need to be the right height, weight and have some backing from investors.

I could safely say some drivers could be the best in the world, but I wouldn't say as a blanket rule that F1 drivers are the best


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 10:37 pm 
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Not necessarily. There are a lot of scrubs in F1, many of whom are there because they're rich and can buy seats.

What F1 drivers are best at, though, and especially the most successful ones, is ignoring all the BS that comes from the FIA, series managers, team principals, sponsors, journalists and yes, the fans. They're also the best at enduring the circus and all the horrible things associated with it. Some of them don't care, others like it a lot and thrive in it.

Senna died when I was a kid and I wanted to be a driver, but obviously it didn't happen, because I wasn't rich and didn't have connections, nor was it anything more than a distant dream to me. However, if I could go back in time and talk to my younger self, one of the things I'd tell him is to forget about it, because F1 today is an even worse career destroyer than it used to be. :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 11:30 pm 
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Well we can try to view this through a process of elimination to some extent.

1. If we're strictly talking about drivers, then that rules out any motorcycle, airplane or boat racers. So no MotoGP or Supercross guys.
2. F1 drivers can basically be considered superior to sports car, Indy Car or touring car racers as those guys tend to be washouts from the F1 ladder (a ladder which is now unfortunately broken or non-existent). people like Buemi and Mark Webber have cleaned up in sports cars and Indy Car has long been the sort of 2nd tier series for open-wheelers.
3. There are 2 touring car series that are the exception; NASCAR and V8 Supercars. I would still have to give F1 drivers the edge over both of these series. I don't want to make light of these series or their drivers but they are regional series that are largely exclusive to a single country each. In the case of NASCAR, the driving is fundamentally different (and I would say less demanding as evidenced by the fact that older drivers can remain competitive much longer in NASCAR than F1). With regards to V8 supercars, it's not totally uncommon to see Aussie racers from other series go into that series and perform well. I think it's tough for me to suggest that a regional series produces superior talent to a global one.
4. That leaves WRC. Rally has become an extremely niche sport with very few serious competitors but it is undeniably demanding and requires a level of adaptability and improvisation that is perhaps a bit beyond F1. That said, Sebastien Loeb is the greatest rally driver ever and he didn't actually start rallying until he was 21! For an F1 driver to begin at 21 years of age would be unheard of. Even if someone had the talent to do it, they certainly wouldn't become the dominant figure in the history of the sport.

My conclusion is that, at least the very best drivers in F1, are probably the overall best drivers in the world. They are people who have been racing since childhood and have a huge amount of experience. They have also risen to the top in the most coveted series with the highest salaries. There certainly are several drivers in F1 who's biggest asset with regards to making it onto the grid was their financial backing. If you are fair though, you'll realize that this is true for almost all racing series. There are people paying their way into all of the series that we're talking about here, the only difference is that it's a lot cheaper. So my answer is "yes".


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 11:37 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Here are two drivers who were the best of their generation. Both did drive in Formula One but not much because of the nasty politics of Formula One and the simple fact they could find happiness and a respectable income outside of Formula One

Image
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bIJkH9dKMzA/UBFPssYEciI/AAAAAAAAAlE/y9oD8iulxJA/s640/006-Brian-Redman-with-Jacky-Ickx-2.jpg

I don't know much about the other fellow, but saying that Jacky Ickx didn't drive much in Formula One is flat out wrong. He started well over 100 GPs between 1966-1979, and had 8 wins and 25 podiums. This is not the resume of someone who didn't race much because of politics or money.

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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 12:47 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Well we can try to view this through a process of elimination to some extent.

1. If we're strictly talking about drivers, then that rules out any motorcycle, airplane or boat racers. So no MotoGP or Supercross guys.
Actually, some of the riders, boat racers and others may well be great drivers, we don't know because they have not pursued that discipline. I remember a few fellows who made the transition from bikes to F1 and did quite well...

2. F1 drivers can basically be considered superior to sports car, Indy Car or touring car racers as those guys tend to be washouts from the F1 ladder (a ladder which is now unfortunately broken or non-existent). people like Buemi and Mark Webber have cleaned up in sports cars and Indy Car has long been the sort of 2nd tier series for open-wheelers.
Ah, the old "F1 rejects dominate the racing world" theory. Sure some F1 drivers have gone on to success in other series, no argument... but rest assured, not all have, nor is is a guarantee of even moderate success in other disciplines just because you are a former F1 driver. This stereotyping of the inferiority of other series is one of my biggest pet peeves of (to stereotype as well) F1 fans. Obviously not all F1 fans do so, but there is a big faction of F1 snobbish like fans. One of the big fallicies is the idea that all good to great drivers in open wheel cars really want to be F1 drivers but know that they can't cut it. For all of its glamour, F1 is not the end all for everyone, nor is it without faults of its own. F1 makes it incredibly difficult for one to get into the sport, barring the support of BIG money. Even if they have money behind them, they have to spend time in feeder series, leaving their homes and families for months on end, usually requiring a move to Europe and at their own expense, be it family and/or sponsors. All so that they can buy a ride in car destined to run around the back of the back, and knowing full well that in most cases, they will have a drive for a couple of years, and then someone with more money will come along and they will be put on the shelf, even if they do have talent. Not every good to great driver feels the desire to play that game... especially when there are more rewarding options available to them.

3. There are 2 touring car series that are the exception; NASCAR and V8 Supercars. I would still have to give F1 drivers the edge over both of these series. I don't want to make light of these series or their drivers but they are regional series that are largely exclusive to a single country each. In the case of NASCAR, the driving is fundamentally different (and I would say less demanding as evidenced by the fact that older drivers can remain competitive much longer in NASCAR than F1). With regards to V8 supercars, it's not totally uncommon to see Aussie racers from other series go into that series and perform well. I think it's tough for me to suggest that a regional series produces superior talent to a global one.
Less demanding? Did you by chance watch the race at Talladega last Sunday? 25-30 cars racing in a pack at over 200mph, usually 3 wide and in some cases 4 wide... bumper to bumper, door to door usually. If that is not demanding, I don't know the meaning of the word apparently. Are some of the drivers older than the oldest drivers in F1... sure, but I think it is a mistake to attribute that to NASCAR being "easier". Have F1 drivers quite at an early age because they were no longer capable or because it is what is expected of them? Schumi was not the driver in the last three years that he was before he retired the first time, but was that because of his age, or because of his time away from the sport? Schumi actually was starting to get his timing back and, I think, could have continued in F1 for a few more years had he wanted to do so. I don't think that there is anything that says a 40 year old cannot be competitive in F1 if he has a competitive car... after all, that is the real ticket in F1... the CAR. Did not Fernando Alonso... the best driver in F1 in my opinion, not just say that the INDY cars required more from the driver than an F1 car and that it was more fun because of it?

4. That leaves WRC. Rally has become an extremely niche sport with very few serious competitors but it is undeniably demanding and requires a level of adaptability and improvisation that is perhaps a bit beyond F1. That said, Sebastien Loeb is the greatest rally driver ever and he didn't actually start rallying until he was 21! For an F1 driver to begin at 21 years of age would be unheard of. Even if someone had the talent to do it, they certainly wouldn't become the dominant figure in the history of the sport.
I won't say that a rally driver could not become a dominate figure in the history of sport. I will say that I have nothing but admiration for the rally driver even the less successful ones. I think that they have to be a little bit "loco" to even do it. I watch them and see their ability to control the car in an incredible range of conditions. So what if they don't start until their early 20s? That is one of the strangest justifications for the superiority of F1 drivers that I have ever seen. Just because an F1 driver has not waited until that age to take up racing doesn't mean that F1 is somehow superior to the WRC. Yes, Rally is a bit of a niche sport and yes there is not a wide field of "serious competitors"... kind of like F1 when we think about it, isn't it?

My conclusion is that, at least the very best drivers in F1, are probably the overall best drivers in the world. They are people who have been racing since childhood and have a huge amount of experience. They have also risen to the top in the most coveted series with the highest salaries. There certainly are several drivers in F1 who's biggest asset with regards to making it onto the grid was their financial backing. If you are fair though, you'll realize that this is true for almost all racing series. There are people paying their way into all of the series that we're talking about here, the only difference is that it's a lot cheaper. So my answer is "yes".
The most coveted series with the highest salaries??? Are you sure of that? Of course, it is the most coveted series to a bunch of F1 racing fans, but that doesn't mean that it has to be so for the top NASCAR, Aussie V8, WRC, INDYcar drivers... I know it is tough for some to comprehend, but not all great drivers feel that F1 is what they want...and what is wrong with that. Yet we constantly see them being put down in this forum as less skilled, less motivated, basically inferior in many ways by some in this forum (I am not including you in that group, sandman, as you really have tried to be fair for the most part in this post. I just think that at times you too are a "victim" of the F1 hype). I think that you will find that there are many NASCAR driver making some very good money. In 2016 there were only 3 F1 drivers making more in race earnings than the top NASCAR drivers... Seb, Fernando and Lewis in that order. Kimi, Nico, & Jenson were in the $10m plus range. 13 NASCAR drivers exceeded $10m in 2015, more than double the number of F1 drivers. Of course that does not include monies earned promoting products and events, but it goes give us an ideal. The point is that most of the top NASCAR driver have no financial incentive to play the F1 game when they can stay in their home country, drive in more races, make as much or more money as they would in F1, and ... have a chance to win on any given Sunday, as there are more than just 4-6 cars capable of wining races. The money in Aussie V8s may not be that great, I don't know. INDYcar drivers are nowhere near F1 & NASCAR drivers in salaries (unless of course you should win the 500 and take home a couple of million+...
their salaries are actually less than they were several years ago, but it has been tough times for the series. That said, it does seem to be coming back and if successful drivers will again climb.
The INDYcar salaries are one reason that several drivers have made the move to NASCAR.

Again, sandman, I understand what you are saying and appreciate it, I just think that sometimes we in the forum tend to get too wrapped up in F1 and what we think it is. Personally, I think that one driver in F1, Fernando Alonso, could well be the best driver in the world, but is nothing more than personal opinion. Were there a way of actually measuring the best, however, I would not bet on Alonso or any other one driver, be them F1 or any other series. I would take the "Field" with my bet. No surprise, but I place my vote for bottom two options... Overrated, and good but not always the best.



Oh, and before the usual, "if you don't like it, why don't you leave, why are you here?"... (it happens frequently when I speak on this topic).... I am here because I am an F1 fan, first and foremost and have been for 60 years. That said, I am also a NASCAR fan, INDYcar fan and nearly every other racing series. I love motor racing in almost every form... I actually think some of you might as well... if only you would give them a chance with an OPEN mind.
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 12:39 pm 
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Looking at this logically, there's no right answer... so much of the career ladder to F1 depends on getting the money and the breaks at the right time. There must be no end of drivers with huge potential who never even get to F1 through lack of opportunity or funds.

Also you'd have to say that F1 especially these days is a very particular skill, as much about preserving fuel, tyres, gearboxes as it is about being fastest through corners. It may be very skillful to able to drive to a delta, but does that really make you the best driver? When people talk about legends of F1 I don't remember anyone hailing Senna's ability to drive the car to a delta. Indeed, would Senna have flourished in this era, or would he think it was absolute garbage?

And then, there's only 22 places on the grid and yet you only have to look at this forum to see that half of them are not up to it, too old, past it, only there because they bring cash, just generally rubbish... doesn't say much does it really. Perhaps the question might be, if F1 drivers are the best in the world then why doesn't the sport allow them to demonstrate this skill properly?

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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 2:55 pm 
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Blake wrote:
Oh, and before the usual, "if you don't like it, why don't you leave, why are you here?"... (it happens frequently when I speak on this topic).... I am here because I am an F1 fan, first and foremost and have been for 60 years. That said, I am also a NASCAR fan, INDYcar fan and nearly every other racing series. I love motor racing in almost every form... I actually think some of you might as well... if only you would give them a chance with an OPEN mind.
:D

:thumbup: Knowing that this weekend has FE, IndyCar, NASCAR, F1 (and its support categories) has me very excited

And I'm practically counting down the days to May 28th. Or maybe even better again 2 weeks later - WRC, 2xFE races, IndyCar, MotoGP, NASCAR and the Canadian GP. I hope my girlfriend has made plans with her friends...

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 7:32 am 
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I AM TEH AWESOMEZ!

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 9:04 am 
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I have no idea really. I don't watch enough of other motorsports to really have a firm understanding. I also think there isn't really enough crossover between "top" tiers of different disciplines to really use that as a statistical basis.

I'd hope they are the best. I'd rather think I was watching the best than not I suppose.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 10:56 am 
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F1 drivers are certainly the best F1 drivers in the world, in much the same way that Dragster drivers are the best Dragster drivers in the world. Different disciplines that require different skills.

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 11:34 am 
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Glorified go-cart jockeys.

The best drivers are undoubtedly in rallying. The car control is incredible, the road surface is constantly varying and unpredictable, plus they don't get to hone it to perfection from lap to lap. If they push a bit too hard it's not a trip to the run-off and come back on track, it's curtains.

Sadly, they were better in the days before cars got dumbed down and filled with fancy tech. If anyone doubts how good the rough stuff boys are look at the video of Ari Vatenen doing Pike's Peak. Awesome.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 3:18 pm 
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Chunky wrote:
Glorified go-cart jockeys.

The best drivers are undoubtedly in rallying. The car control is incredible, the road surface is constantly varying and unpredictable, plus they don't get to hone it to perfection from lap to lap. If they push a bit too hard it's not a trip to the run-off and come back on track, it's curtains.

Sadly, they were better in the days before cars got dumbed down and filled with fancy tech. If anyone doubts how good the rough stuff boys are look at the video of Ari Vatenen doing Pike's Peak. Awesome.


.

Well, define "best"...

Put rally drivers in f1 cars and they would definitely not have the very high precision and lap-to-lap consistency of F1 drivers. As I said can't compare them, two different worlds, apples and oranges

Also no, you make it sound like if they crash its a likely death... it isnt. It was like that in old F1 days however


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 3:29 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
Chunky wrote:
Glorified go-cart jockeys.

The best drivers are undoubtedly in rallying. The car control is incredible, the road surface is constantly varying and unpredictable, plus they don't get to hone it to perfection from lap to lap. If they push a bit too hard it's not a trip to the run-off and come back on track, it's curtains.

Sadly, they were better in the days before cars got dumbed down and filled with fancy tech. If anyone doubts how good the rough stuff boys are look at the video of Ari Vatenen doing Pike's Peak. Awesome.


.

Well, define "best"...

Put rally drivers in f1 cars and they would definitely not have the very high precision and lap-to-lap consistency of F1 drivers. As I said can't compare them, two different worlds, apples and oranges

Also no, you make it sound like if they crash its a likely death... it isnt. It was like that in old F1 days however


Could well be wrong but I think an F1 driver would finish higher up in a rally than a rally driver would in an F1 race. With comparative performing teams obviously.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 5:08 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
Chunky wrote:
Glorified go-cart jockeys.

The best drivers are undoubtedly in rallying. The car control is incredible, the road surface is constantly varying and unpredictable, plus they don't get to hone it to perfection from lap to lap. If they push a bit too hard it's not a trip to the run-off and come back on track, it's curtains.

Why?
Sadly, they were better in the days before cars got dumbed down and filled with fancy tech. If anyone doubts how good the rough stuff boys are look at the video of Ari Vatenen doing Pike's Peak. Awesome.


.

Well, define "best"...

Put rally drivers in f1 cars and they would definitely not have the very high precision and lap-to-lap consistency of F1 drivers. As I said can't compare them, two different worlds, apples and oranges

Also no, you make it sound like if they crash its a likely death... it isnt. It was like that in old F1 days however


Could well be wrong but I think an F1 driver would finish higher up in a rally than a rally driver would in an F1 race. With comparative performing teams obviously.

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 6:24 pm 
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ALESI wrote:
F1 drivers are certainly the best F1 drivers in the world, in much the same way that Dragster drivers are the best Dragster drivers in the world. Different disciplines that require different skills.

:thumbup:

Comparing F1 drivers and rally drivers is like comparing football players and rugby players. All that F1 and rallying really have in common is that they involve driving some sort of four wheeled vehicle as fast as possible along some sort of predefined course.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 7:10 pm 
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No, they are one of the best "types" of driver out there, strap him in difference four wheel beasts they will not far well in all but would be blood good with a fair few!


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 8:54 pm 
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Chunky wrote:
Glorified go-cart jockeys.

The best drivers are undoubtedly in rallying. The car control is incredible, the road surface is constantly varying and unpredictable, plus they don't get to hone it to perfection from lap to lap. If they push a bit too hard it's not a trip to the run-off and come back on track, it's curtains.

Sadly, they were better in the days before cars got dumbed down and filled with fancy tech. If anyone doubts how good the rough stuff boys are look at the video of Ari Vatenen doing Pike's Peak. Awesome.

While I have a great deal of respect for rally drivers, I don't agree with your argument here. Yes, rally drivers do deal with more difficult terrain, but equally the sheer length of the rally and the number of corners makes the need for precision lesser. No rally driver will ever take every single corner on a stage perfectly, and the gaps between drivers are usually huge, indicating that - at the very least - all of them but the winner made numerous mistakes or sub-optimal corners. It stretches belief that the leader didn't also make plenty of mistakes, just fewer or less costly ones.

F1 drivers don't need to be as adaptable, but their need for precision and pinpoint accuracy is far higher. They both have their strengths and weaknesses, but I can't agree that rally drivers are superior just because they drive on more difficult terrain.

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 9:44 am 
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It is apple and oranges, but in my opinion, F1 is all about precision, while WRC is more "forgiving" on that sense. We have examples of F1 drivers going to rallying and doing well, even winning stages. Similarly, didn't McRae test an F1 car to a couple of seconds from the lead? It is probably easier to migrate from F1 to rallying, rather than the opposite. Is the sense that in rallying drivers can get up to speed easier. In F1, to find these 2 secs missing... that's the tough one.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 12:30 pm 
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Surely even different single seater racing series require different 'skills', especially since F1 has such unique 'characteristics' like energy harvesting. It could be that someone is brilliantly intuitive and a great racer, but just doesn't enjoy having 300 buttons to mess about with on the steering wheel, or just isn't as good as another driver, whereas one driver who is very good, but not a great racer, who is very technically minded and interested in all that could flourish. Is that maybe a tiny part of why Kimi isn't really at the peak of his powers these days?

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 4:05 pm 
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I think the question is kind of moot. F1 drivers are probably the best open wheelers. They are specialized in that and they can't be beat by any outsider coming in. Neither can an F1 driver go to WRC and dominate. Different skillsets are involved. Of course the basics of car control are the same, but there is a vast difference everywhere else. Just to take one example. An F1 driver needs to have absolutely metronomic precision in every corner he takes, but he can push to the limit because the worst that can happen is that he goes slightly wide and leaves the track in the ample run-off room left just for that purpose. Even Monaco, or other street circuits, while punishing, will result in damage to the car and ending the session prematurely. WRC is different. A driver may not need to be so precise, but he has to be a lot braver because the safety features of F1 are not in operation here. Going slightly wide in the corner, while in the middle of a forest, means that you hit a tree and your body is cut into several pieces.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 4:35 pm 
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It's pretty hard to compare. If push came to shove I'd probably say WRC drivers as they have to deal with the unexpected while driving on the limit, relying on their co-drivers to tell them what kind of corner they may be facing, whereas F1 drivers can practice taking the same corner multiple times to improve their lap. It's chalk and cheese but I'd say WRC have to call on a greater set of skills than F1 drivers do overall


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 8:00 pm 
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SmoothRide wrote:
Going slightly wide in the corner, while in the middle of a forest, means that you hit a tree and your body is cut into several pieces.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. There are dozens of easily found videos online of rally drivers making a mistake and going off without dying, including in forests. There are certain rare stages where the danger actually is that high, but for the most part if they go off they ruin the car and sustain minor injuries at most.

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 8:43 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
SmoothRide wrote:
Going slightly wide in the corner, while in the middle of a forest, means that you hit a tree and your body is cut into several pieces.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. There are dozens of easily found videos online of rally drivers making a mistake and going off without dying, including in forests. There are certain rare stages where the danger actually is that high, but for the most part if they go off they ruin the car and sustain minor injuries at most.


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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:35 pm 
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A 6'4", 90kg man.... of terrific talent.... probably wouldn't make it in F1.

To be winning in the top levels of Karts, you need to be of slight build, so it makes the path to F1 harder for anyone bigger than average. Add on the fact you need significant backing and a family that drive you to motorsport from a very young age..... the talent pool is relatively small.

There are so many different disciplines in motorsport. F1 drivers are probably the best open wheel racers in the world, but its like comparing rugby league, with rugby union, with Aussie Rules, with NFL with Hurling, etc....


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